Guild Wars 2

MatthewMedina.5419:

Checkmate atheists?! Does that mean you believe the Elder Dragons…are GOD? :-P

If someone asks you if you’re a God, you say . . . yes . . .

It does not confirm Mordremoth.

All it confirms is that Scarlet either has split personalities or there is sentience in/using the Dream.

And guess what? The Pale Tree and White Stag are sentience using/in the Dream. Who’s to say there isn’t some other tree or entity akin to the White Stag that’s not so good natured (coughRedVinecough) that isn’t doing the same?

Yeah, Mordremoth NOT confirmed.

And even if it is Mordremoth, it’s heavily implied the entity is using the Dream which is NOT unique to the sylvari (again: see White Stag) thus it is no proof that it’s something hardwired into all sylvari (see: Malyck has no Dream).

No checkmate.

/takes your queen that was checking my king

Because there aren’t any other ancient or metaphysical entities that could possibly be lurking in the sylvari mind.

MatthewMedina.5419:

Checkmate atheists?! Does that mean you believe the Elder Dragons…are GOD? :-P

I’d posit that the Elder Dragons were gods.

Gods who got killed.

Gods who got killed and did not have their powers absorbed and whose powers have now coalesced into powerful forces of all-consuming nature.

hey, are you quoting me quoting the game? :P

i’ll admit that the “hidden programming” (as you put it) concept crossed my mind, but we can’t argue that it’s something inherent to all sylvaris for sure. it could be something that only scarlet had. it could be a drawn out metaphor for her split personality. could be anything.

SoulArcanium.5047:

BrunoBRS.5178:

hey, are you quoting me quoting the game? :P

Sounded close enough to the actual quote from the game that is forever lost to me.

that’s how quoting works :P

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

MatthewMedina.5419:

Checkmate atheists?! Does that mean you believe the Elder Dragons…are GOD? :-P

If someone asks you if you’re a God, you say . . . yes . . .

In the context of Tyria Matthew is a god.
One of many creator gods.

Hmm … maybe what Scarlet saw was the ANet office. :P

Khisanth.2948:

Hmm … maybe what Scarlet saw was the ANet office. :P

Great Scott! She’s been arguing with Bobby Stein all this time!

Uruz Six.6594:

Khisanth.2948:

Hmm … maybe what Scarlet saw was the ANet office. :P

Great Scott! She’s been arguing with Bobby Stein all this time!

Her ISP must be amazing to allow her to do that.

. . . I always thought she had Comcast and that’s why she went insane.

Uruz Six.6594:

Khisanth.2948:

Hmm … maybe what Scarlet saw was the ANet office. :P

Great Scott! She’s been arguing with Bobby Stein all this time!

the red briar she saw was just a very drunk colin (during what must have been one heck of a party) hanging on a plant to not fall down.

If the Pale Tree is the supposed champion of Mordy, note, supposed not confirmed, maybe she makes all Sylvari with their psyche blocked off from the dragon.

That way she can protect them not to be corrupted from the start, in their Dream. That’s why the Tree warned her not to look further, or it would break her.

And what about the “random” jungle dragon boss in Sylvari Dream sequence when you start a personal storyline? The “poison” that threatens every new sylvari?

What if Scarlet’s mentioning Caithe’s “secret” is actually Caithe’s knowledge about the elder jungle dragon? Doesn’t this also explain why is Scarlet chosen specifically, as a sylvari? Couple that with their limitless curiosity and unknown learning capacity. Mix that with a crazy asura and you have a deadly combo.

And why isn’t Pale Tree evil? Because it grew on top of Ventari’s teachings.

It would actually be a great way to introduce a new dragon!

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

MatthewMedina.5419:

Checkmate atheists?! Does that mean you believe the Elder Dragons…are GOD? :-P

If someone asks you if you’re a God, you say . . . yes . . .

Haha – this made my day!

I can only hope that she is only appearing to do the dragon’s bidding when she secretly plans to take up arms this sea of troubles and by opposing end them.

CharrGirl.7896:

If the Pale Tree is the supposed champion of Mordy, note, supposed not confirmed, maybe she makes all Sylvari with their psyche blocked off from the dragon.

That way she can protect them not to be corrupted from the start, in their Dream. That’s why the Tree warned her not to look further, or it would break her.

And what about the “random” jungle dragon boss in Sylvari Dream sequence when you start a personal storyline? The “poison” that threatens every new sylvari?

What if Scarlet’s mentioning Caithe’s “secret” is actually Caithe’s knowledge about the elder jungle dragon? Doesn’t this also explain why is Scarlet chosen specifically, as a sylvari? Couple that with their limitless curiosity and unknown learning capacity. Mix that with a crazy asura and you have a deadly combo.

And why isn’t Pale Tree evil? Because it grew on top of Ventari’s teachings.

It would actually be a great way to introduce a new dragon!

So basically you’ve surmised the general concept of the Sylvari and Mordy theory. It is indeed a nice way to bring a new dragon into the fold, and it is a mindkitten that not many other MMO’s could contend with.

It is however wishful thinking for now as there’s no concrete evidence supporting the theory. No one doubts that it would be an awesome idea, but there is evidence against it.

First and foremost, Malyck never had a Dream of Dreams. But as it stands, he hasn’t fallen to corruption like the theory would posit. The other theory is that, so far, to date, no minion has broken the control and will of it’s dragon overlord through sheer will/circumstance. Glint’s control was broken due to a specific Forgotten ritual.

Of course it’s within Anet’s abilities to write around these and provide arguments, but so far, they’ve yet to do so, so it still stands as wishful thinking.

I don’t think it means sylvari have hidden programming. I think it means the sylvari connection to the Dream is intentionally restricted somehow. That the Dream as sylvari experience it is just one part of a much bigger whole (I’ll call it the Aether) that they don’t naturally connect to, their connection to it is through and limited by the Pale Tree. Think of the Aether as the internet. The Dream is Mrs Jones’ home computer with a very heavy parental filter restricting her children from leaving Nickelodeon’s website. All of Mrs Jones’ kids connect directly to that website, to them that’s what the internet is, they don’t know any better and they can’t go anywhere else despite the internet being limitless. Omadd’s device removed that restriction from Scarlet (essentially turning off the internet filter) and she was able to go beyond the Dream that the Pale Tree cares for (or leashes her too, depending on your perspective) and deeper into the “Aether” where she ran into the entity, possibly an Elder Dragon, that is also connected to the “Aether” but because Scarlet never left her filtered Dream before, she was vulnerable to malware.

moomooo.9357:

First and foremost, Malyck never had a Dream of Dreams. But as it stands, he hasn’t fallen to corruption like the theory would posit.

How was Malyck able to communicate and function two weeks after leaving his pod if he didn’t dream? I can understand walking to an extent (a new born calf can learn to walk fairly quickly) but he was as physically capable as any other sylvari (doesn’t he help fight off the Nightmare Court?). How does he learn speech so quickly? I’d have to replay the quests to remember clearly, but Malyck seemed to communicate fine and that’s not something you pick up in two weeks. We don’t know he hasn’t fallen to corruption, he could be a sentient dragon minion that is deceiving us. If sylvari as we know them aren’t inherently connected to the Dream by a Mother Tree (as Trahearne apparently thinks Malyck is not) what makes the Pale Tree so special?

moomooo.9357:

The other theory is that, so far, to date, no minion has broken the control and will of it’s dragon overlord through sheer will/circumstance. Glint’s control was broken due to a specific Forgotten ritual.

The idea doesn’t require that the Pale Tree breaks free from a dragon’s corruption on its own. All it requires is that the Pale Tree is somehow free from a dragon’s corruption. We don’t know about the origins of the seed, it could have been freed before Ronan planted it (thus freeing the other seeds as well). We don’t know what happened to the tree before the first sylvari were born – it could have been freed in that time. Maybe someone physically freed it. Maybe it was freed (such a weird looking word) by something within the Aether.

The “evidence” debunking the sylvari connection to elder dragon idea is pretty much entirely conjecture and assumptions (as is the idea that sylvari are dragon minions). I don’t think the most interesting question is “are the sylvari Elder Dragon minions”, we simply don’t know enough to go either way on that. I think the better question is, what do we really know about the Dream? I think Scarlet’s experience and Vorpp’s comments imply that there is more to the Dream as we know it. Previously I assumed what Scarlet saw was facilitated entirely by the machine. Now I think it’s possible that she only saw what she saw because it opened up her existing connection to the Dream. The Pale Tree seemed to know there was something dangerous where Scarlet’s mind was going, why would the Pale Tree think that?

I don’t think the sylvari being minions or spawn of a dragon are likely. My gut feeling is that the Pale Tree and its ilk are the result of the work of the druids and possibly Melandru. The fact that they are humanoid, in sinc with the natural world and even one of their elite skills which summons a druid spirit makes me believe this.

I do think though that something dragon related is touching the Dream of Dreams. After all we know that the Dream isn’t sylvari exculsive. They are just all networked to it thanks to the Pale Tree.

My guess is that the Jungle Dragon isn’t fully awakened yet. After all we have seen very little sign of it. The fact that the Maguuma could be drying up could be the result of it feeding on its surroundings as it tries to wake. At the same time, we know its not unusual for Dragon Champions to be active prior to a dragon awakening.

My theory is that something like a Dragon Champion, perhaps a corrupted Pale Tree influenced by being exposed to the Jungle Dragon ala Svarnir, has access to the Dream and is perhaps the source of the Nightmare. All Sylvari are connected to the dream but the Pale Tree instilled in her children protections that shield them from the dangerous influences in the Dream.

It wasn’t just Ceara’s mind that went into that box with her. She was still connected to the Dream. The moment her mental defences were disabled, it left her completely vulnerable to anything lurking out their in the dream. Once it got in, she could never get it out.

I would super love it if whatever Scarlet saw is the same “evil” that we’re fighting in the Mist War. It’s plausible, if the Dream is a part of the Mists and the Nightmare is corrupting it. Maybe it’s the same thing that’s allowing the Sons of Svanir into the Mists; maybe all the dragons are establishing a foothold there.

Fighting in the Mists always seemed like such a waste of time to me if we have dragons to be killing, but it would be fantastic if there’s an actual lore reason for it.

I always thought the evil in the mist are the other 2 factions.

From the omadd’s clue , i think scarlet met the original persona of the slyvari. Their creator made them for a purpose but due to some reasons, broke free of it. Perhaps the nightmare court also shows signs of this but not as crazy as scarlet.

In retrospect, slyvari are the perfect expendable soldiers. They multiple in massive numbers from a single seed, combat capable as soon as they are “borned”. They are capable of having an intellect rivaling the best of the common races. So i think they were created as soldiers but failed to be used before their creator lost.

I believe abaddon is involved but that wouldn’t fit the other clues that we were given regarding scarlet desire to fight a massive being with her marionette.

Visteri.3821:

I would super love it if whatever Scarlet saw is the same “evil” that we’re fighting in the Mist War. It’s plausible, if the Dream is a part of the Mists and the Nightmare is corrupting it. Maybe it’s the same thing that’s allowing the Sons of Svanir into the Mists; maybe all the dragons are establishing a foothold there.

Fighting in the Mists always seemed like such a waste of time to me if we have dragons to be killing, but it would be fantastic if there’s an actual lore reason for it.

that’s evil’s doing. you recognize it by the way it kills.

nah, i think that’s just filler dialogue. “so many go through these gates, so few return” sounds like a tongue in cheek way of saying “this place is so awesome no one wants to come back from it”.

FateOmega.9601:

I always thought the evil in the mist are the other 2 factions.

From the omadd’s clue , i think scarlet met the original persona of the slyvari. Their creator made them for a purpose but due to some reasons, broke free of it. Perhaps the nightmare court also shows signs of this but not as crazy as scarlet.

In retrospect, slyvari are the perfect expendable soldiers. They multiple in massive numbers from a single seed, combat capable as soon as they are “borned”. They are capable of having an intellect rivaling the best of the common races. So i think they were created as soldiers but failed to be used before their creator lost.

I believe abaddon is involved but that wouldn’t fit the other clues that we were given regarding scarlet desire to fight a massive being with her marionette.

regarding the sylvari, i wouldn’t call them “expendable soldiers”, but your theory sounds like mine. i’ve always seen the sylvari as sort of tyria’s antibodies against the dragons. besides all the reasons you mentioned, they also have dragon immunity on their side, meaning if they die fighting dragons, they won’t become minions. they fight dragon minions on a level playing field.

to make an analogy to gameplay, it’s as if the sylvari were a WvW zerg that didn’t rally the other zerg when one of them died.

CharrGirl.7896:

That way she can protect them not to be corrupted from the start, in their Dream. That’s why the Tree warned her not to look further, or it would break her.

Doesn’t explain sylvari immunity while other dragon minions aren’t.

CharrGirl.7896:

And what about the “random” jungle dragon boss in Sylvari Dream sequence when you start a personal storyline? The “poison” that threatens every new sylvari?

It’s not random. It’s the sylvari PC’s Wyld Hunt. It doesn’t threaten every new sylvari – it only threatened one. It was a Wyld Hunt manifestation given form by the Nightmare Court’s influence (hence the Nightmare Hounds). It was a representation of Zhaitan.

CharrGirl.7896:

And why isn’t Pale Tree evil? Because it grew on top of Ventari’s teachings.

That wouldn’t affect dragon corruption. As explained in large detail in the sylvari are mordremoth’s minions thread, dragon corruption removes free will – higher ranked minions hold more intelligence while lower ranked minions do not (they’re practically mindless the lower you get). But none of them can disobey the dragon. It is an impossibility, they wouldn’t even consider it. Glint only became free because the Forgotten used an ancient long-lost (until after Zhaitan’s death) ritual to give her free will; after she gained free will, she became sympathetic to those she killed because she could read their minds, their thoughts, as they died. And thus she turned on her master.

The Pale Tree had nothing akin to the Forgotten’s ritual. Ventari’s teachings are non-magical nurture, which wouldn’t affect a dragon minion any more than an old lover would be able to convince the minion to act differently (was attempted in Sea of Sorrows).

Shiren.9532:

How was Malyck able to communicate and function two weeks after leaving his pod if he didn’t dream?

For this, I point to the Toxic Hybrid.

If one looks at it closely, they will realize that the common perception that the Toxic Hybrid is a krait-made-planty is false. It holds the same body structure and design as a sylvari, down to the same “center” that the sylvari body sprouts from (I don’t recall the exact wording but an old blog post – blog now taken down curse you Anet – explained that the sylvari were designed in their redesign to have a single center point – their lower back. Take your sylvari’s clothes off and you can see it; it’s the opposite side of their belly button (which for them is akin to the bottom of an apple for example).

The Toxic Hybrid has this center, and from that center, its body comes from. The Toxic Hyrbid is basically a krait-shaped large sylvari. And when it’s born, it can only growl and crawl, but within mere seconds it begins to being capable of speech, of standing upright, high intelligence, and fighting properly.

This to me is possibly a natural trait among sylvari – but to the Pale Tree’s sylvari, they under go this very short-lived phase while in the Dream of Dreams. Malyck did not. So when he was born, he’d be a grumbling, crawling human-like sylvari for a few minutes – hours tops; but he’d evolve fast and get up to adult-level mentality and intelligence quickly.

Shiren.9532:

We don’t know he hasn’t fallen to corruption, he could be a sentient dragon minion that is deceiving us.

That’s such a strawman argument that I would facepalm at it.

Who knows, maybe Gaheron and all Flame Legion shamans who undergo the Baelfire ritual at the Burning Forest are actually sentient Primordus minions that are deceiving us by making us think they’re not working for a dragon but themselves – clearly this is the reason why the Molten Alliance Flame Legion prisoner thinks he and his kind will survive the dragons!

Shiren.9532:

The idea doesn’t require that the Pale Tree breaks free from a dragon’s corruption on its own. All it requires is that the Pale Tree is somehow free from a dragon’s corruption. We don’t know about the origins of the seed, it could have been freed before Ronan planted it (thus freeing the other seeds as well). We don’t know what happened to the tree before the first sylvari were born – it could have been freed in that time. Maybe someone physically freed it. Maybe it was freed (such a weird looking word) by something within the Aether.

It being freed before being found by Ronan is honestly the ONLY chance it has. Unless it was the Dream itself that freed the Pale Tree.

Given that dragon corruption alters the physical body and is magical in nature, I doubt that someone could “physically free it.”

Shiren.9532:

The “evidence” debunking the sylvari connection to elder dragon idea is pretty much entirely conjecture and assumptions (as is the idea that sylvari are dragon minions).

It’s really not. It’s actually the argument of a lack of any supporting evidence. The theory was born on the presumption that a dragon minion can break free of its own will (given by Glint in EoD), the Dream functioning like the dragon minion hive mind concept, and that the sylvari’s immunity means it’s already corrupted – both have been debunked, in Arah explorable, White Stag storyline, and Crucible of Eternity story and explorable respectively. Slap on the fact that Malyck had no (known) Dream – and if he had a Dream, it wasn’t the same Dream as the Pale Tree – you get a fairly decent argument against an argument that has only debunked evidence supporting it (read: no support at all).

Shiren.9532:

The Pale Tree seemed to know there was something dangerous where Scarlet’s mind was going, why would the Pale Tree think that?

Well, as stated above, the Pale Tree is not the only thing that has some degree of control over the Dream. Mind you, she calls herself the “caretaker” but the White Stag is on par to the Pale Tree – both beings are half in the Dream, half in reality (Tyria). Chances are that there are other things that are the same. The entity, I believe, is one such “other things” – whatever the entity is (another tree? this “Red Vine”? Originator of the Nightmare? Mordremoth (not naturally tied to the Dream but is so for the same reasons the Pale Tree and White Stag are?)).

BrunoBRS.5178:

regarding the sylvari, i wouldn’t call them “expendable soldiers”, but your theory sounds like mine. i’ve always seen the sylvari as sort of tyria’s antibodies against the dragons. besides all the reasons you mentioned, they also have dragon immunity on their side, meaning if they die fighting dragons, they won’t become minions. they fight dragon minions on a level playing field.

Funny you should say that cos i have a similar theory Except that i think the dragons are the anti-bodies. The slyvari are immune because they are so new. We know that humans are not native to tyria but perhaps none of the races are really natives. Maybe they all came from the mists at some point accidently or not.

FateOmega.9601:

BrunoBRS.5178:

regarding the sylvari, i wouldn’t call them “expendable soldiers”, but your theory sounds like mine. i’ve always seen the sylvari as sort of tyria’s antibodies against the dragons. besides all the reasons you mentioned, they also have dragon immunity on their side, meaning if they die fighting dragons, they won’t become minions. they fight dragon minions on a level playing field.

Funny you should say that cos i have a similar theory Except that i think the dragons are the anti-bodies. The slyvari are immune because they are so new. We know that humans are not native to tyria but perhaps none of the races are really natives. Maybe they all came from the mists at some point accidently or not.

i don’t know about dragons being anti-bodies. they certainly seem like regulators, essentially hitting the reset button (or trying to) every couple millenia to start things on a clean slate. and the sylvari are born as a reaction to such a… virulent approach to this regulation. like two sides of the same coin, they both have tyria’s best in their subconscious (or the closest a dragon has to that). the dragons are like a farmer burning down his plantation to sew new seeds, and the sylvari are the people trying to keep the farmer from setting things on fire because there might be better ways to achieve what he wants without the damage.

There was quite a lot about the Forgotten that make them special. They were balancers of the world for a time, they were the wardens to Abaddon and protectors of Glint. They had multiple means of preventing or reversing dragon corruption. They also had a spell to witness pass events (as seen in the sylvari chapte 3 storyline if you go with the Priory to look into Riannoc’s death).

But I don’t think that the Pale Tree or White Stag would be so unique – unless it was the Dream that made the Pale Tree immune, simple nurturing wouldn’t change it if she was a dragon minion and the Dream was akin to the dragon’s and their minions’ hive mind mentality that is the “theory.”

Shiren.9532:

snip

You’ve basically “written around it” like I said Anet could. But you haven’t actually provided anything that supports what you just wrote. You are totally in the right to have your own opinion and speculation, but as it stands, Anet has done nothing to support what was just written.

SoulArcanium.5047:

And yet, Charr’s Warmachine forced them to retreat despite having all this over powered magic at their disposal. Everything you listed doesn’t really bring them close to even a single Pale Tree when put into perspective. What makes the Pale Tree unique probably has nothing to do with the dream. I think the creator of the seeds responsible for their immunity.

Gods sent forgotten to Tyria as overseers and protectors while they were playing sandbox in Tyria. Sure, that fact alone elevated the race but who’s to say that the origins of sylvary aren’t the same? We don’t know who exactly placed the seeds into the cave but people tend to speculate that it was Melandru (Or some other insanely powerful entity). If it wasn’t for the exodus of the gods, then the difference between Sylvary and Forgotten wouldn’t have been that different in terms of their role in the world. (Plus they would still have connection to the gods, like Forgotten did – hence their knowledge of dragon counter spells)

… You realize that magic to counter Elder Dragon corruption or to look into the past of a location does not necessarily mean that it is at all useful against a horde of brute force beasts, right?

Like rock, paper, scissors. Just because scissors (Forgotten) can beat paper (Elder Dragons) doesn’t mean it can beat rock (charr).

That depends on if other tree’s sylvari are immune, which is yet to be seen. But the only thing that’s truly unique to the Pale Tree is the Dream. Magical trees are, in fact, not that rare.

We actually can no longer be sure it was the Six Gods who sent them – maybe them guiding the other races was their deal with the Six Gods being allowed to bring humans here from wherever-they-come-from. After all, the Forgotten seem to have been the best-placed race of the elder races (jotun having lost their magic, seers being nearly wiped out, mursaat having fled into the Mists, dwarves and Forgotten are unknown).

Playing the “we don’t know what would be if xyz happened” is a very poor argument. I mean, we don’t know what would be if the Six Gods remained at all – would they war with the Elder Dragons? If so who’d win? Would humanity have fallen? Would Forgotten have been pushed to the Crystal Desert in the first place? If so, would they still seemingly disappear from all existence? Playing the “what if” allows too many variables, and you cannot argue anything solidly. Yeah, maybe the sylvari would be on par to the Forgotten. Or maybe they wouldn’t. Who’s to say? You CANNOT argue one way or another and pulling that card just ceases all theorizing – it becomes pointless speculation.

All of this, however, does not under-estimate the Pale Tree. Nor does it over-estimate the Forgotten.

Hey, what if the Pale Tree doesn’t have inherent connection to the Dream like everyone assumes she/it has? What if the Pale Tree is only able to create mind link with her fruit (sylvari) to give them simple abilities (walk, talk, fight) at birth (thus explaining Malyck – dreamless, yet has skills).

The Dream can be a phenomenon not inherently connected to Pale tree, it could be an effect of prolonged influence of filthy hippies Ronan and Ventari, who lived near the seed they have planted as it grew!

Thus, our Pale Tree would be uniquely connected to the Dream, and have strong morals of filthy hippy Ventari and his tablet, BUT at the same be subject to the Dream and other creatures inhabiting it – including malevolent beings, perhaps even an elder dragon?

That theory could place the puzzles together and form a coherent picture perhaps, with further research?

To make it short, WHAT IF:

- Pale Tree(s) only by default give their fruit basic skills, and our Pale Tree is connected to Dream because of Ventari?

- What if the Dream is independent from Pale Tree and not all Pale Trees have connection to it? After all not every stag has the connection, only the White one?

- What if our Pale Tree and by extension Nightmare Court/Scarlet are exposed to influence of a malevolent being dwelling in the dream that other trees (including Malyck’s Tree) are not subject too, thus explaining M.’s lack of Dream, basic skillset and not being a Dragon CHampion with a single stroke?

So… do you think Scarlet’s intent is to attack the Pale Tree?

If Scarlet’s tormentor comes from the dream of the pale tree, and the pale tree potentially connects to the deepest depths of Tyria. Could the pale tree be responsible for connecting Scarlet to her tormentor. If so could the poison be used to damage or sever the pale tree’s connection to Scarlet’s tormentor?

Do you think the leylines are fertile grounds for a magic entity like the pale tree to grow it’s roots?

Also, what do people suppose is Ceara’s wild hunt?

If Scarlet is planning to attack the Pale Tree, some one should tell her that the Pale Tree is not in Lion’s Arch. Haha.

What do we know about the mysterious entity Scarlet met?

- It is very powerful
- It wants to destroy stuff (Scalet mentions that she does what shes doing because of herself, not because of that thing, which implies that it has the same intentions)
- It is was a part of scarlet before she met it.

Sounds dragon-ish to me.

Interesting is, that we are not talking about a connection she has to a dragon out there. Its stated, that this thing is A PART of her she was protected of before.

Maybe we should start to imagine dragons not just as a single entity that flies around and kills stuff but more of as a manifestation or a facet of this grater but formless elemental will that can be divided and shared in artifacts such as the sanguinary blade of Jormag and distributed under a dragons minions.

The only other place where I see somebody BEING another being was when the dwarves all proclaimed to be the great dwarf after they got the “good corruption” from the Hammer to single-midedly hunt down the destroyers and become all greenish-stony looking immortals.

Maybe Omadds device just freed a small, contained part of Mordremoths corruption that now destroys scarlets personality. Its strong enough to make her insane, but not necessarily stong enough to finally corrupt her yet and take over her will.

Imo this season will anyways end with a dragon. Anet wants to prove how they can distribute expansion worthy stuff via the living world and the expansions will definitely rotate around the ED. And since its soon 1.5 years since the release of GW2, the dragon story has to continue.

Shiren.9532:

I don’t think it means sylvari have hidden programming. I think it means the sylvari connection to the Dream is intentionally restricted somehow. That the Dream as sylvari experience it is just one part of a much bigger whole (I’ll call it the Aether) that they don’t naturally connect to, their connection to it is through and limited by the Pale Tree.

Actually, given the way you describe it and how the Dream works, perhaps you should call it ‘the Mists’.

Shiren.9532:

How was Malyck able to communicate and function two weeks after leaving his pod if he didn’t dream?

Malyck specifically awakens with zero memories of Mother Trees or Dreams or anything, really. Konig’s theory makes a whole lot of sense and dovetails into another theory of mine I’ll get into the next paragraph, suffice to say I’ll stick with his notion that sylvari (and hybrids) are born ready to rock.

Shiren.9532:

We don’t know about the origins of the seed, it could have been freed before Ronan planted it (thus freeing the other seeds as well). We don’t know what happened to the tree before the first sylvari were born – it could have been freed in that time. Maybe someone physically freed it. Maybe it was freed (such a weird looking word) by something within the Aether.

Let’s retrace back to Malyck again. Sylvari – regardless of tree – are born with inherent knowledge to walk, talk, and – most importantly – how to fight. Malyck was not only rockin’ those pistols like Detective Tequila, he was among the last survivors standing at Fallias Thorp. An unarmed hybrid champion is a heck of a fight for you, Jory, and Kas. Pretty good for guys just out of the pod.

Now what else do we know about sylvari? The Pale Tree is popping them out of pods at a rate that would make rabbits blush. They are incorruptible to draconic corruption, even in death.

The seeds are a source of instantly ready soldiers resistant to dragon magics, given a couple hundred years for the mother tree to grow. One would think its as if the sylvari are far less dragon minions than anti-dragon minions.

(And to throw wood onto the speculation fire, let’s throw in the mursaat ‘randomly’ razing Ronan’s village. I wonder if they were looking for something…)

Shiren.9532:

I think the better question is, what do we really know about the Dream?

The most fascinating part of the Dream that gets missed is this. Malyck doesn’t have one. The White Stag is found romping around southern Caledon, outside of the Grove. The part of the Dream we see is based off of Ogham’s Wilds, which is a fixed point where the barrier between the real world and the Dream is the weakest. Its also located in southern Caledon, outside of the Grove. To add to the speculation, the Grove isn’t too far from the Temple of the Ages and there are unexplained ruins in the swamp just north of Ogham’s and Astorea.

Given that the Pale Tree claims herself the caretaker of the Dream, one gets the impression that the Dream may not be inherent to the sylvari but perhaps to southern Caledon. For ~reasons~, perhaps involving the sylvari education/incubation process, the Pale Tree found access to the Dream and is moderating its influence into Dreams and Wyld Hunts. Perhaps she is an avatar of her part of the Dream. But there’s something else in the Dream, something that haunts some of her children – see the NPC conversation in Falias Thorp and next to the Grove’s asura gate, something Caera decided she had to face herself.

At this point, my short list is Menzies, Lazarus, maybe Dhuum, mmmmmmmmaybe a ‘Jason Todd dead’ Abaddon, and mmmmmmmmmmaybe Mordemoth after all. Given how Scarlet sees herself as above the Dream, Nightmare, and the dragons, however, I really don’t see her being under the jungle dragon’s influence as much as she and the voice in her head thinks they can control it. We’ll find out soon enough, I imagine.

Really I think Scarlet is Omads puppet. And Omad is controlling her. That seems more plausible. Cuz my Asura opened up a clue that said that he cheated in the contests that we were in together. As part of my own personal story i got a different clue than everyone else. He used his device to break into her head.

Warlord.9074:

Really I think Scarlet is Omads puppet. And Omad is controlling her. That seems more plausible. Cuz my Asura opened up a clue that said that he cheated in the contests that we were in together. As part of my own personal story i got a different clue than everyone else. He used his device to break into her head.

(But he’s dead)

Psynch.4087:

Warlord.9074:

Really I think Scarlet is Omads puppet. And Omad is controlling her. That seems more plausible. Cuz my Asura opened up a clue that said that he cheated in the contests that we were in together. As part of my own personal story i got a different clue than everyone else. He used his device to break into her head.

(But he’s dead)

That hasn’t stopped people from doing that before. I mean, there’s Xehanort . . .

Warlord.9074:

Really I think Scarlet is Omads puppet. And Omad is controlling her. That seems more plausible. Cuz my Asura opened up a clue that said that he cheated in the contests that we were in together. As part of my own personal story i got a different clue than everyone else. He used his device to break into her head.

nope. i was a human and i got the same “professor omadd cheated at polymock” thing, which is actually Vorpp making up an excuse for having lost so many times.

and i fail to see what being good at cheating has to do with being able to be an undead mind controller.

SoulArcanium.5047:

So in other words, there was nothing special about the Forgotten. As I said, connection to Gods and, thus, access to powerful magic did NOT make them any more special than sylvary are now. Your continuously imply that it took some sort of god like race to remove the dragon corruption from Glint. This is wrong, because in perspective there is NOTHING that makes them more powerful or intelligent than sylvary. (See Scarlet)

I never said “god like race”. Their magic is unique – we don’t know how it is unique, but it is unique. But it is their magic and not their race that is unique. That’s what I was getting at.

And honestly, the same can be said for all five elder races. No modern race has magic akin to those five.

It did however take fully unknown and practically non-existent magic to counter dragon corruption. Something even the sylvari (or any other modern race) do not have access to, yet their bodies are nonetheless immune.

SoulArcanium.5047:

Forgotten were not a counter to Elder Dragon any more than sylvary are now. The most significant thing they did was perform a spell on Glint that more than likely has been a product of their connection to the Gods, or their Facets.

The Forgotten themselves were not immune. They had magic that was. But that’s not the same. The sylvari, on the other hand, are immune – to the point of death instead of corruption, mind you, so it’s not full immunity.