Guild Wars 2

Heey guys,

Ive been thinking.. about `magic`.
Why do people want to use magic? Well who doesn`t want to shoot freaking lightning or firebolts out of their hands aye? But here it comes!

Why should we chooce weapons over magic? Skill and training over knowledge of the arcane? Metal and Leather armor over robes?

Both require the appropriate training and skill to use effectively. When asked about learning multiple types of magic, a-net likened it to getting one college degree then forgetting everything you learned and getting another. So even the different types of magic are very different from each other. It just comes down to individual preference, personality and opportunity to learn.

Everyone has some degree of magic potential. But how much they study and develop that is up to them. Guardian is a good example of this.
“I think the Guardian is much more of a pragmatic and tactical user of a magic as opposed to an Elementalist, who is a pure student of magic. The Elementalist casts discrete spells, and you have the feeling that there is a heritage and body of knowledge behind those spells.”
http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/01/31/behind-the-scenes-with-the-guild-wars-2-guardian-massivelys-in/

There’s also the situation of culture.

Asura have a heavy deal with magic, and sylvari though in a different method. Charr, however, due to their history of being controlled by magic users hate magic – they see magic users as potential oppressors, more or less, but still useful tools. Humans have a distinct history of being unable to use magic and even then with the exception of Orr only through a good amount of training, and though 1,300 years have passed since they gained magic (roughly), this history has remained tied into human culture.

I think it basically comes down to different people having different talents and inclinations.

We’ve been told everyone has the ability to use magic, but that doesn’t mean everyone has equal ability. To turn the question around, consider someone’s ability with a sword. Training and practise can make you better with a sword, but some people just don’t have the capability to become an Olympic fencer or the equivalent no matter how hard the train. Similarly, everyone can use a little bit of magic, but not everyone has the talent and drive to become a proficient enough spellcaster to, say, make a massive illusion of an elder dragon that fools minions of that dragon.

Some people are skilled enough with magic to shoot freaking lightning or firebolts out of their hands. Some aren’t so skilled, but can use the skills they do have to encase an axe with cold energy before throwing it or guide an arrow to strike multiple targets. And others may only be able to use magic at an instinctive level to strengthen their blows, not consciously using magic at all when they strike the ground hard enough to generate a damaging shockwave, something which would not normally be possible for a human-sized (and probably even norn-sized) warrior.

But if i use a profession like a Thief? I wont be able to use any kind of magic right? or are there some racial skills that make that possible?

@Damash
Thief use magic too.
Before shattered Bloodestone it was Denial magic (4 schools of magic: Preservation, Aggression, Denial, and Destruction).

Damash.1074:

But if i use a profession like a Thief? I wont be able to use any kind of magic right? or are there some racial skills that make that possible?

As it has already been said, everyone does use some degree of magic and if you think a bit about it thieves are not the least magical class of the game (it being the warrior in my opinion, which still uses quite a bit of it):
Thieves are able to summon allies (elite), teleport with ease (utility, sword/dagger if not mistaken, shortbow, and maybe more) and some other feats I cannot remind this moment that are obviously impossible without the help of magic (or, since there is some science in this game, the help of some kind of device, but not being visible up until now it would be safe to think it is not thanks to that).

Just as somebody else said, maybe not everyone is a first grade magician, but they can still bend a little bit of magical energy torwards their end (especially since the game depicted the age the game is in as filled with magic, even more than years, even centuries, earlier).

Actually, engineer as a profession uses no magic. Individual engineers might, and some of their equipment might be magical, but engineer skills are not magic. Engineer is the Bad-kitten Normal of GW2.

EDIT: Doh, filtered

Tuomir.1830:

Actually, engineer as a profession uses no magic. Individual engineers might, and some of their equipment might be magical, but engineer skills are not magic. Engineer is the Bad-kitten Normal of GW2.

EDIT: Doh, filtered

You’re right, I didn’t though of engineers, still, due to some of theirs’ skills mechanics I find pretty reasonable that they still use magic (the two examples which comes to my mind being the way projectiles travel or the way the fire field from the flamethrower is so perfectly laid, like a wall).
Even though, I don’t know of any source which claims them being magic user or pure technology user, so that’s just my call and should really not to be taken as a point.

Yes, engineer don’t use magic because this class is Charr invention.
It’s pure technology.

For engineers, it was said that they’re a pure technology profession, but they do use magical aspects in their chemicals and elixers, etc. The healing turret for example was said to use some sort of magical mist that heals wounds. But this is a “in general cases” and not hardcore lore for each individual case. Same for appearance. They keep these things overall open ended for the sake of role play.

Well, maybe because strong magicians don’t necessarly make powerful fighters.

I remember the main campaing in Neverwinter Nights. At some point, you had to rescue an archmage who was got prisoner by the gnoll. She was REALLY high level, while the gnolls (or another humanoid I don’t remember) were pretty low level. She had the power to destroy them, but as soon as she saw the blood spilling during the fight in her camp she freaked out and lost her concentration.

Morale of the story: the reason why you don’t see only magical fighters is because it’s impossible to study and develop your power to its full potential while being trained to focus while someone is trying to bash your head with something really heavy.

And that might be the reason why Mesmer NPCs’ power seems endless, while players don’t have that kind of power.

All classes can use different amount of magic, but none of them embodies it. Even the elementalist and mesmer bend the magic around and need a focus for it. The magic every class contains is basically equal, the ability to use it is different.

Yea.. I guess you guys are right about the fact everyone uses magic. Thanks guys!
Though i have still one question.. Why should we chooce weapons over using magic?

If you don’t mind, I’d like to counter your question with another question:
Why not?

Magic (during combat, at least), just as weapons, is just a mean to deliver damage to your enemy, the main difference between the two being the kind of strain you put onto yourself (it being mentally for magic and phisical for, well, bashing your enemies’ heads with a stick).

In a media like GW2, where there is no price whatsoever on casting a spell more than swinging a blade we may suppose that the two are just as effective (especially since we may agree at this point that every class actually uses a bit of magic to give that extra oomph to their attacks), if we were talking about other games were there would be a hard limit to the magic usage (the first which comes to my mind being d&d, where a magic user as a limited amount of spells per day) in a set frame of time, then magic may become much more powerful (due to versatility, stopping power, and etcetera)…
Magic in such a place becomes REALLY powerful (most of the problems comes from spellcasters), but I still think that going for a martial class would be a solid choice because they are a more “sustainable” way of surviving (they just need their hp, then they can go on bashing enemies at their heart’s content).

Finally, we also agreed that even if everyone is able to use magic, not everyone is able to do it with the same proficiency, so that would be a reason to go for weapons instead to go for magic… What would be the point to study something I can’t get a hold onto when I may use my effort to actually become good at fighting with a weapon?
Even if I were one of those which are good at everything, I may still prefer weapons over magic just as a matter of preference, that would be a valid reason to choose them.

Magic, in a greater scope, is fairly superior to simpler tools like weapons, simply because it has some “special uses” that a non spellcaster character wouldn’t be able to access (in this game those are represented by those spells which only npcs have, for example Logan’s huge eternal dome of protection in CoF’s story, or the fact that a certain character can create through illusion her own clothes, or Trahearne’s minions army, in other media a spell used in a creative way or a special spell created for that special occasion), but those are cases where it is needed for the story and does not prove less about the viability of weapons in a fight (even though, it may make you change your idea about being a martial character if you don’t want to be powerless in instances where only spells can save the day).

Damash.1074:

Why should we chooce weapons over using magic?

I think its best to imagine that while magic is powerful, all “non-magic” classes are pretty much bad-kitten (i like this word) action heros. Think Aragorn for Rangers or Conan for Warriors, both have killed magic users in their stories.

Damash.1074:

Why should we chooce weapons over using magic?

As others have indicated, not everyone is going to be the Michael Jordan or Albert Einstein of their magical class. Most will just be ‘average’ spell casters.

In GW2 universe, using weapons seems to be on par with using magic. There will be the ‘great’ ones and there will be the average ones. Aside from that why would anyone choose to use a sword over a bow? They both offer different advantages over the other.

Demon of the Light.7961:

As it has already been said, everyone does use some degree of magic and if you think a bit about it thieves are not the least magical class of the game (it being the warrior in my opinion, which still uses quite a bit of it):
Thieves are able to summon allies (elite), teleport with ease (utility, sword/dagger if not mistaken, shortbow, and maybe more) and some other feats I cannot remind this moment that are obviously impossible without the help of magic (or, since there is some science in this game, the help of some kind of device, but not being visible up until now it would be safe to think it is not thanks to that).

Thief skills that I regard as definitely magical:

Steal
Infiltrator’s Arrow
Infiltrator’s Strike
Larcenous Strike
Shadow Shot
Shadow Strike
Ink Shot
Shadow Refuge
Shadow Trap

I’m leaving signets out because they explicitly use magic items (the signets themselves) and Ambush/Thieves Guild because they could simply represent allies hiding nearby. But basically everything involving shadowstepping/teleportation… yeah, that’s magic in my book. It may be magic performed by special devices rather than directly by the thief themselves… but I think that’s part of ArenaNet leaving things open for the player to decide.

Shadow Refuge is an odd one out there because, well, pointing at an area and making every ally in the area invisible? That’s like their equivalent of Mass Invisibility or Veil. The other one is Larcenous Strike – nearly all boons are something intangible if not explicitly magical, so how is a thief stealing those without using a spell of their own? Likely one related to Arcane Thievery?

Thief skills that I regard as possibly magical:

Pretty much all of them.

Seriously, thief is probably the most magical profession after the big four. It’s just that they’re more, well, sneaky about it.

Demon of the Light.7961:

You’re right, I didn’t though of engineers, still, due to some of theirs’ skills mechanics I find pretty reasonable that they still use magic (the two examples which comes to my mind being the way projectiles travel or the way the fire field from the flamethrower is so perfectly laid, like a wall).
Even though, I don’t know of any source which claims them being magic user or pure technology user, so that’s just my call and should really not to be taken as a point.

There were some interviews way back when where the question was asked. Basically, engineers do not cast spells directly, but are perfectly willing to use magical fuels or magitechnology in their weapons and gadgets. The exact balance between pure technology and magic may vary between engineers, even within the same skill – for instance, a charr engineer’s incendiary fuel may be traditional napalm, while a sylvari engineer might use a fuel based off fireflower extract instead (my example, not ArenaNet’s, but the interviewee in question did postulate sylvari and asura flamethrowers using a very different fuel than charr flamethrowers).

From the charr perspective in particular – the charr distrust magic largely because of its usual association with mysticism. To them, an engineer using magical substances and other ingredients to turn magic into just another branch of science and technology would be the ultimate victory. There’s a reason the charr and asura get on so well, even if the asura still insist on that everything-is-connected-in-the-Eternal-Alchemy hoo-haa.