A lot can happen in 250 years. A professions job can change drastically, some can be absorbed into the teachings of another, others can be wiped out threw war. Skills can be gained or lost to time.
The Paragon’s military tactics and supportive nature was absorbed into the teachings of the warrior and guardian. The assassin faded into memory while its magic was streamlined. The monk was absorbed into the culture of the guardian. And the teachings of the Dervish could have easily been wiped out by Palawa Joko’s forces.
But the Ritualist is different. Its a practice that is much older then many of these professions. Possibly older then their direct rival, the necromancer. The question is what happened to them? Its not like the norn, human and charr ritualists just fell into history. Not to mention the tengu wouldn’t so easily abandon the practice.
So I guess my question is what happened to them? Did they get absorbed into the necromancer’s teachings? Did they get wiped out? And how would that even happen to a transcontinental profession?
On the one hand, we are flat out told the following about the Guardian’s origins (the first in an interview and the last in the novel Sea of Sorrows):
With the turmoil in Elona and the spread of the Order of Whispers into other lands, more Paragon teaching showed elsewhere in Tyria. These teachings melded with other traditions, and over time, the guardians and their abilities can be found throughout the world and among all the races. They are not tied to a particular race, philosophy, or group of gods but rather to a larger concept of proactive defense, of taking the fight to a foe and protecting those you fight alongside while appealing equally to humanity’s defensive nature and the charr’s desire to rule the battlefield.
It’s a pile of Elonian protection magic, mixed with a little monk training, wrapped up in some crazy ritualist hoo-ha from Cantha. A real grab bag of “you can’t hurt me”. They’re called guardians, and simply put, they mean trouble.
On the other hand, both the Canthans and the Tengu have isolated themselves from the rest of the world so Ritualist magic might be alive in a more pure form among them. We have no way of knowing this however.
They became obsolete. The guardian and maybe the necro got a bit of their skills, but the package as a whole fell out of favor.
Scott McGough: The alternate magical energy employed by ritualists has fallen out of general usage, as illustrated by the absence of ritualists in Guild Wars 2. The techniques ritualists used for casting spells are still valid, but in the 250 years since Guild Wars, Tyria has learned and mastered more efficient ways of casting spells. It’s analogous to telegraph technology—it still functions and it still does the job of communicating across long distances, but in modern times there are newer, better ways to communicate so the old ways are effectively defunct.
Interesting. I would hope arena net looked more into the evolution of professions in the future. It would be fun to go back and learn exactly what happened to each of them and their progression over time.
They got absorbed into the Guardian, I expect. The Guardian’s spirit weapons appear to be a blend of the Ritualist’s old-school spirit weapons and summoned spirits.
They got absorbed into the Guardian, I expect. The Guardian’s spirit weapons appear to be a blend of the Ritualist’s old-school spirit weapons and summoned spirits.
The guardian is too much of an amalgamation of a bunch of other professions to really pinpoint anything conclusive about that.
I’d like to see a return of the ritualist. Even if it no longer functions like it used to in GW1. I had a concept with urns and summoning dead heroes like Pyre or Jora. But I’ll have to post that in suggestions for another time along with the other ten million ritualist suggestion post already floating around.
The Rit summoned spirits that were more or less human in appearance. In fact, the spirits were supposed to be ancestors whom the Rit communed with to help them in battle and such. They would have had to design spirit skins for each specific race in order to appease everyone. For one thing, that really wouldn’t work for the Sylvari…there’s not exactly a lot of them gone. For another, that doesn’t really jive well with racial belief systems.
At any rate, the Engi uses similar techniques now and is generally considered its “mechanical” inheritor.
Which makes me wonder if we ever set foot on Cantha maybe we see some of them. But i dont think they will ever become a playable profession in gw2, too much of thier mechanics are inherited by engis.
The Rit summoned spirits that were more or less human in appearance. In fact, the spirits were supposed to be ancestors whom the Rit communed with to help them in battle and such. They would have had to design spirit skins for each specific race in order to appease everyone. For one thing, that really wouldn’t work for the Sylvari…there’s not exactly a lot of them gone. For another, that doesn’t really jive well with racial belief systems.
At any rate, the Engi uses similar techniques now and is generally considered its “mechanical” inheritor.
The spirits the ritualist summoned were more aspects of some sort of feeling or emotion or idea. You had Anger, Wonderlust along with restoration. While the ranger spirits were more spirits of the seasons and elements, Ritualist spirits were different. And the only named spirits the Ritualist called on never actually had their own design. They were urns. Like Attuned Was Songkai. I don’t see why other races couldn’t call on the heroes from other races. Such as Jora or Pyre.
A side note. The engineer, as fun as it is, never filled the same niche the ritualist did for me. They don’t feel similar enough to me at all. The engineer is much more impulsive and chaotic then the ritualist was. The Ritualist was very slow at times and seemed to feel rather distanced in terms of the fight. What I mean is the ritualist rarely got into the middle of a fight. Weather you used offensive spirits or defensive spirits the ritualist could be seen out of the fight, preparing for the next as their spirits did the work.
The Rit summoned spirits that were more or less human in appearance. In fact, the spirits were supposed to be ancestors whom the Rit communed with to help them in battle and such. They would have had to design spirit skins for each specific race in order to appease everyone. For one thing, that really wouldn’t work for the Sylvari…there’s not exactly a lot of them gone. For another, that doesn’t really jive well with racial belief systems.
At any rate, the Engi uses similar techniques now and is generally considered its “mechanical” inheritor.
The spirits the ritualist summoned were more aspects of some sort of feeling or emotion or idea. You had Anger, Wonderlust along with restoration. While the ranger spirits were more spirits of the seasons and elements, Ritualist spirits were different. And the only named spirits the Ritualist called on never actually had their own design. They were urns. Like Attuned Was Songkai. I don’t see why other races couldn’t call on the heroes from other races. Such as Jora or Pyre.
A side note. The engineer, as fun as it is, never filled the same niche the ritualist did for me. They don’t feel similar enough to me at all. The engineer is much more impulsive and chaotic then the ritualist was. The Ritualist was very slow at times and seemed to feel rather distanced in terms of the fight. What I mean is the ritualist rarely got into the middle of a fight. Weather you used offensive spirits or defensive spirits the ritualist could be seen out of the fight, preparing for the next as their spirits did the work.
“The Ritualists are one of the oldest known professions on Tyria. Being unique to Cantha, they have existed long before the Exodus and the gods granting magic to the races. Before magic, the Ritualists relied upon a power similar to magic, granted to them by their powerful ancestors whom maintained a connection to their descendants. Through their spirits, the Ritualists were able to practice magic, or something close to it. When magic was granted by the gods, many of the original abilities were strengthened and merged into their modern form. Though still relying on the power of the dead, their original skills are no longer a visible part of the profession.” ~GW wiki
The disconnect is in the nature of GW2 gameplay. The combat now is not only more mobile and action-oriented, but it’s also designed for ranged to be at a disadvantage in combat. Not to mention the healing and tank part of the “healing/support/tank” niche that Rits filled in GW1 is gone.
The disconnect is in the nature of GW2 gameplay. The combat now is not only more mobile and action-oriented, but it’s also designed for ranged to be at a disadvantage in combat. Not to mention the healing and tank part of the “healing/support/tank” niche that Rits filled in GW1 is gone.
Yes, this is true to an extent. However I don’t feel that much of what the ritualist did couldn’t be translated into a style more suited for GW2. The Engineer’s turrets have a few qualities that are shared with the ritualist’s spirits, but mostly its shared with their offensive spirits and not the defensive.
Most of the ritualist’s spirits didn’t heal. A good chunk of them dealt damage. But a good number of them provided a form of support much like Enchantments. But rather then stripping them, you had to kill the spirits to get them out of the way. This idea still exists in GW2 through the ranger spirits however they are far less sophisticated then the ritualist spirits of GW1. We don’t have turrets that act like Displacement, Shelter, or Union.
But even if the ritualist’s style had to completely change for GW2 in order to fill a role not yet in GW2 that isn’t one they filled in GW2. I’d actually be okay with that because the ritualist had a really cool visual appeal and interesting lore.
I’d like to see the ritualist again also, but that’s mostly just warm fuzzy nostalgia talking. I think if they did bring back the ritualist, they’d probably have to make some major changes to the class just to keep it from being a little redundant. Healing spirits would be all but useless, as healing roles are next to useless as things are now (It’s mostly self heal or no heal), damage spirits have been replaced with turrets and protective/buff spirits are completely in the realm of the Guardian. I guess having those traits rolled into one pretty, wiggle dance-y package would be neat, but not worth making into the game. Maybe they can do something cool with the spirit weapon system? Not the floaty doom hammer like the guardians have, but the weapon enchantments like splinter weapon and stuff. That’d be neat. I’m no game designer, so I’ll leave that kind of creativity to the people who make the game, but I guess if one were to make the ritualist viable in GW2, that’d be a good place to start.
Leader and sole member of the “Bring Penguins to Tyria” movement.
The other side of the explanation is that in one of the Towertalk interviews, Jeff and Ree said that the experts of the foreign professions in Tyria were all or mostly all in Lion’s Arch, because that was the cosmopolitan city and where the schools were… and the people who taught THEM were back in Elona or Cantha. Most of that knowledge was therefor lost in the Great Tsunami or the isolation that came afterwards, with just a few elements remaining that got absorbed into other professions. It’s possible that they continued developing and remain strong traditions elsewhere.
Mind you, it has to be said that fundamentally ritualism seems to have been a way to get around Tyria’s relatively low magic before the Exodus by calling in power from other realms – a technique that may well be somewhat redundant now. It also required a somewhat porous barrier between the worlds of the living and the dead – while this porosity may still remain, it’s possible that the same thing that prevents easy resurrection also makes ritualist magic harder.
From a mechanical perspective… keep in mind that the ritualist was initially developed as a low-tech substitute for the engineer playstyle. I’m not going to say it’s impossible, but it is something I’ve thought about, and it’s hard to come up with an adaptation of the ritualist into the GW2 mechanics and philosophy that doesn’t more-or-less morph into the engineer. Most of the differences in how they’re played are really differences between GW1 and GW2 in general, not specific to those professions.
To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
Basically, Rits in lore don’t exist because that style of magic (binding spirits) only ever existed in Cantha, and Cantha hasn’t been in contact with the rest of the world for a very long time. Rits in game don’t exist because their mechanics (turrets and held item summons) have been split between existing classes. Being sneaky and fighting with daggers, on the other hand has existed everywhere, and it was only a mechanical absence in prophecies because they thought an assassin archetype wouldn’t work without stealth, and at that time they didn’t think stealth was a good value addition to GW1’s mechanics as they were trying to build a game without aggro management.
Also, Anet has said several times that classes represent archetypes in GW2 rather than the specific professions they represented in GW1. They’ve also said that they’d be unlikely to invent new classes unless they fulfilled an archetype that wasn’t currently present. Ritualists are death/spirit magic users, and their archetype is already represented by GW2 necromancers. If we ever do make it to cantha, I’d wager that ritualists would be represented as necromancers, and most classes would gain access to new cantha-style weapons or skills (fighting staves, war glaives, spirit binding magics, urn magics, weapon enchantments, combo style skills)
As Dustfinger says, it would seem to fit the GW2 Necromancers best. Many of the GW1 professions evolved into the GW2 ones. Guardians, for example, appear to be a descendant of Paragons and Monks, while also picking up the Ritualist’s spirit weapons. It makes sense that the urn magic of Ritualists would be adopted by Necromancers, given their strong links with death and the underworld.
As Dustfinger says, it would seem to fit the GW2 Necromancers best. Many of the GW1 professions evolved into the GW2 ones. Guardians, for example, appear to be a descendant of Paragons and Monks, while also picking up the Ritualist’s spirit weapons. It makes sense that the urn magic of Ritualists would be adopted by Necromancers, given their strong links with death and the underworld.
Culturally, though, not so much- Canthans may use funeral urns, but most races on Tyria go in for either burials or pyres.
Mechanically, it would be difficult to do at all with GW2’s system, since the majority of skills in combat are now tied directly into the weapon. You might counter that they could give the urn skills, and that’s true, but it’d limit how many variants you could have, and we already have two or three classes that do that, which would make it mechanically indistinct.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Basically, urn magic would be bundle items similar to Conjure weapons, Engineer Kits, or Warrior Banners.
But yes, I do agree that it would increase skill bloat, and since that’s something the devs explicitly said they wanted to avoid when making GW2, odds are low it’ll come to pass.
I still think weapon enchantments might be fun. A utility skill that adds effects like splinter weapon or life steal to weapon skills or something. But I suppose it won’t really be much different from standard buff based utility skills. Only, like in GW1, you wouldn’t be able to forcefully remove an enemy’s weapon buff. And as for the urn cultural thing, it can easily have been adopted. There was quite a large influx of Canthans into Kryta, and if someone were to pick up enough of their culture to make Guardians (who are supposed to have been influenced a bit by ritualists) who’s to say they didn’t adopt the ancestor worship aspect of their religion also? And thus the “carrying my great grandfather’s corpse in a jar because it makes me invincible” tradition.
Leader and sole member of the “Bring Penguins to Tyria” movement.
It’s one thing to pick up a bit of useful magic and then heavily modify it to the point it’s almost unrecognizable. It’s quite another to adopt strange religious beliefs and funeral customs from what is by far the smallest ethnic group in your kingdom. I can certainly see those of Canthan descent carrying on that tradition, but the vast majority of Krytans would think of it as bizarre.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
I don’t see how they’d be much different, especially considering the magic they use is largely based on the tradition of ancestor worship. Also consider the real life parallels. In the United States alone we have a wide variety of dealing with dead people. Even among Christians, who by tradition bury their dead, will cremate, send bodies out to sea, or even space for the wealthy eccentric. Their bible dictates that burial is the Christian thing to do, but they’ve come to adopt so many different cultural practices that it’s not surprising to see them do…pretty much whatever you want with a corpse. Except eating. Usually. Most people frown on that sort of thing.
Leader and sole member of the “Bring Penguins to Tyria” movement.
