Guild Wars 2

skimming through the threads, i couldn’t see anyone bringing this up.

what’s up with caithe in this episode? she quietly sneaks in for the audience, and disappears the second the minions show up. she’s nowhere to be seen in the aftermath.

it’s a baseless accusation, but the writing implies someone was conspiring to bring the summit to mordremoth’s attention, and if the writers taught me anything in their livestreams, is that they’ll make those cues as obvious as possible to guide speculation. and caithe is a sylvari that has seen some sort of evil, tempted by it, but supposedly rejected it, and she’s been fighting the temptation to join the nightmare court since. i just thought it was weird how she was there seemingly just to be there, and ran off as soon as she could.

funny side note: i dropped a mini faolain yesterday from a mini pack :P

I still think it is us, the PC.

She doesn’t disappear the moment the minions show up. Like Trahearne, she stays and fight until the last of the minions are dead – then with Trahearne and the last leader, she goes through the portal. She’s always up front and dodging around so it’s hard to catch, but all the sylvari stay behind to the last minute (however the generically named ones die rather than flee).

I don’t think Caithe is the leak. She despises the Nightmare too much and there’s far too many hints that the Nightmare is tied to Mordremoth. My guess is that she went out to follow where the Shadow of the Dragon (and maybe other Mordrem) fled off to. If anything, she’d have a vendetta against Mordremoth – especially if the Nightmare is indeed his doing as it would mean Mordremoth stole her love away from her.

OR she went into the lower levels of the grove to make sure Mordrem weren’t attacking down there.

Caithe fights to defend the Pale Tree when the Mordrem first attack. I think it’s unreliable to heavily focus on things like character dialogue as a cue from the writers, the writing is inconsistent enough in so many areas that you’d be getting mixed signals all over the place.

For example, Trahearne is present but he is the only NPC leader that doesn’t have a voice actor. I don’t think it’s because he’s special but rather because his VA was unavailable. Last release the Pale Tree’s dialogue was really strange (she knew about Mordremoth but showed no leadership) and even this release it was a bit weird. Some people inferred that she was working against us. Trahearne’s was also strange – both of them are important leaders with authority and relevance to the current threat yet the PC is the one leading the discussions. I don’t think those are cues that the Pale Tree or Trahearne are evil or corrupt or allied with Mordremoth, it’s simply that the writing is pumping out content every two weeks and the primary focus seems to be the biconics, everything else is peripheral to them. When you try to tell big stories with big characters on a rushed schedule, it’s easy for parts of the story to come off unconvincing.

Caithe has a secret, but she’s not the one working with Mordremoth. If anyone it might be Warden Lochin. He was added last release and for all we know he was corrupted. New named NPCs tend to be important (the herald wasn’t named, the warden that sends you into the chamber isn’t named, . Lochin was named last release and hasn’t done much at all. Why not just leave him nameless or use someone like Caithe in his place? Lochinis the one to watch.

Edit: I previously refered to the Warden as Lachlan. I was tired, his name is Lochin.

Bah! I can’t remember the words the PC used to describe the leak’s actions, but my first thought was it could be Faolain.

Baseless speculation is baseless though.

I’m with Shiren on this. Lachlan seems very shifty, especially after his stellar “Oh no!” performance; the lack of emotion — which could’ve been an excess of sarcasm, actually — might be a hint at his true colors.

Also, as always, I found a way to fit the last known representative of my favorite traitorous, xenophobe, self-supremacist, genocidal species into the story:

Maybe Lazarus learned of the summit from his WM infiltrators, went out to the edge of the jungle, and yelled the location and time loud enough so some Mordrem could hear it. :P

well i won’t try to defend this theory, because it really isn’t one, more of a food for thought because i was really looking forward to having a chat with her, and she kinda bails out, and immediately after that trahearne was like “too many people knew this, someone leaked the information to mordremoth”.

As I said in the other thread about this, various fighters leave the chamber when their Mordrem foes are killed. I’m guessing that Caithe was fighting around the Avatar of the Pale Tree, so that Caithe leaves when you kill the mordrem around the avatar. Of course this is bad story telling since I can’t imagine any Sylvari wanting to leave the Pale Tree in any danger, regardless of what’s happening to Jennah or any asura bigwig, so I’m guessing it just sets up the final solo battle.

Stooperdale.3560:

As I said in the other thread about this, various fighters leave the chamber when their Mordrem foes are killed. I’m guessing that Caithe was fighting around the Avatar of the Pale Tree, so that Caithe leaves when you kill the mordrem around the avatar. Of course this is bad story telling since I can’t imagine any Sylvari wanting to leave the Pale Tree in any danger, regardless of what’s happening to Jennah or any asura bigwig, so I’m guessing it just sets up the final solo battle.

Or the firstborne understand the Avatar of the pale tree is simply an avatar, a projection of the pale tree. Defending it with their life isn’t as important as defending the grove as a whole.

I think it’s an interesting point, either:

• The Pale Tree’s Avatar is an imporant part of her “being” and damaging or healing it is somehow more important than doing the same for other parts of the tree, thus Trahearne, Caithe and the other sylvari are foolish for leaving the Avatar unprotected. If Divinity’s Reach was attacked, you wouldn’t leave the Queen along in the throne room.

• Or protecting/healing the Pale Tree’s Avatar specifically is just silly writing.

Adding to my original point about Caithe’s unusual use in the story, Zojja is clearly an important story character and she would have been relevant several times up til now. We don’t see her because Felicia Day has other priorities and ArenaNet hasn’t recast the role, not because Zojja is off working with the Inquest or she’s Mr E or other random explanation. I suspect Caithe was in this release because an important summit was taking place in the Grove and she’s one of the sylvari’s most notable leaders. It made sense to include her, it was just not worth paying her VA to turn up for a couple of lines.

Fuiltech.6438:

I still think it is us, the PC.

I’m still holding out for this twist :P

well trehearn did say that it would have to be someone with a heart full of darkness, maybe caithe was just a beacon and the reason she wasnt around after the attack was because she realized she was that beacon that brought the shadow of the dragon.

Shiren.9532:

I think it’s an interesting point, either:

• The Pale Tree’s Avatar is an imporant part of her “being” and damaging or healing it is somehow more important than doing the same for other parts of the tree, thus Trahearne, Caithe and the other sylvari are foolish for leaving the Avatar unprotected. If Divinity’s Reach was attacked, you wouldn’t leave the Queen along in the throne room.

• Or protecting/healing the Pale Tree’s Avatar specifically is just silly writing.

Adding to my original point about Caithe’s unusual use in the story, Zojja is clearly an important story character and she would have been relevant several times up til now. We don’t see her because Felicia Day has other priorities and ArenaNet hasn’t recast the role, not because Zojja is off working with the Inquest or she’s Mr E or other random explanation. I suspect Caithe was in this release because an important summit was taking place in the Grove and she’s one of the sylvari’s most notable leaders. It made sense to include her, it was just not worth paying her VA to turn up for a couple of lines.

but trahearne also didn’t get any new lines recorded, and still had plenty of dialogue.

BrunoBRS.5178:

but trahearne also didn’t get any new lines recorded, and still had plenty of dialogue.

Trahearne probably didn’t get any new lines because some people spent the last two years complaining on how horrible his VA was.

AND We still don’t know the secret Scarlet knew about Caithe…

Erukk.1408:

BrunoBRS.5178:

but trahearne also didn’t get any new lines recorded, and still had plenty of dialogue.

Trahearne probably didn’t get any new lines because some people spent the last two years complaining on how horrible his VA was.

by that logic, he wouldn’t be around, because people spent the last two years complaining about how horrible he was.

and it’s beside the point. if they can get trahearne talking without VA, they could’ve given caithe something to talk.

The pale tree was a key to a better understanding about tyria and the dragons. Would think that the person/creature/whatever who set up the attack on the grove did this with the intention of preventing us to get a better understanding about the world and the eternal alchemy. Question is, who would benefit from it, and why.

Also who would benefit from assaulting all the leaders of tyria? White Mantle? inquest?

Retsuko.2035:

The pale tree was a key to a better understanding about tyria and the dragons. Would think that the person/creature/whatever who set up the attack on the grove did this with the intention of preventing us to get a better understanding about the world and the eternal alchemy. Question is, who would benefit from it, and why.

Also who would benefit from assaulting all the leaders of tyria? White Mantle? inquest?

…the dragon that doesn’t want the entire world focused on killing him?

BrunoBRS.5178:

Retsuko.2035:

The pale tree was a key to a better understanding about tyria and the dragons. Would think that the person/creature/whatever who set up the attack on the grove did this with the intention of preventing us to get a better understanding about the world and the eternal alchemy. Question is, who would benefit from it, and why.

Also who would benefit from assaulting all the leaders of tyria? White Mantle? inquest?

…the dragon that doesn’t want the entire world focused on killing him?

Then it used a wrong tactic to assault all leader without wiping their armies.
Whitebear? Replaceable. Smodur? Replaceable. Phlunt? Replaceable. Jennah? Replaceable.
Even worse, it collects anger and instead of fighting one enemy at a time. It goes after all at once, but that’s maybe not interesting seeing where it attacks.

Technically, Jennah and Smodur aren’t very replaceable. Aside from the fact that there’s no (publicly known or known to players) heir to the crown for Kryta, and no known brother/sister/third cousin twice removed to Smodur that can take up Imperator-ship, those two are the two biggest supporters of the peace between humans and charr (the third and fourth being Almorra and Malice). Phlunt and Knut are replaceable, though.

Whitebear: Possibly enrage the norn, but likely cause some shattering and stronger sons of svanir. “He rejected Dragon, look what happened to him because he wasn’t powerful enough!”
Smodur: Depends on the one who replaces him, could be good for treaty or bad. But likely would cause the iron legion to brutally attack any Mordrem they see IMO.
Phlunt: He dies, nobody gives a kitten.
Jennah: She dies, Cauducus seizes the throne (Unless another heir appears and has backing, likely through that locket). If Cauducs keeps the throne, it’s implied he’d turn Kryta into a semi-isolantionist state. If another Heir takes it, they might rally the humans against Mordremoth.

So… I suppose in the end it could cause great anger and an alliance, or splinter them and cause division. Depends on who takes control afterwards.

The summit became a huge advertisement for recruiting dragon killers. Trahearne should be proud, the pact will get much more attention now. He did seem eager to dismiss the possibility of finding who would have leaked the information about the summit. Also, Countess Anise doesn’t seem to trust the pact. I mean she could be sending Canach as an observer, but simple observation seems below Cranach’s skill set. I wonder what she is thinking. Although it would be silly if she is asking Canach to spy on the pact, when they are within earshot of the pact commander…

dragons like to flex there muscles when they wake up and especially one that might think it’s the strongest.