Guild Wars 2

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Lupicus-World-Record-7-033-seconds-by-rT/first#post3560931

Im bringing this topic to the profession balance topic so to make sure the dev see the abomination damage builds have wrought upon the pve part of the game… how can they pretend the game is balanced when a well organised team can down lupicus in 7 second.

Idk what the exact culprit is but it needs some attending to

if you think zerker is the problem, you are thinking wrong. there is no skill that can deal as much burst damage as fiery rush – that is the actual problem.

put a bunch of defensively geared players in the same scenario using fiery rush and you will still get a very respectable killtime because of how OP the skill is.

im just making sure the Dev actualy see this. Idc what they nerf i just want them to nerf it to the ground so that it never happen again.

kyubi.3620:

im just making sure the Dev actualy see this. Idc what they nerf i just want them to nerf it to the ground so that it never happen again.

This is the most vindictive post I have ever seen. You’re so….. I don’t even have a word for it.

Nerf cleric, OP! OP!

smh

Its just my personnal judgment here but id devinitively not want the development team to miss this post just because its in the dungeon forum :P

If they feel like examinating it its up to them. Im not posting any argument neither am i here to back a theory i just want them to go see it :P

Either it will warn them that their boss are made of paper either they will nerf something badly, either they will do nothing :P

Lilith Ajit.6173:

kyubi.3620:

Its just my personnal judgment here but id devinitively not want the development team to miss this post just because its in the dungeon forum :P

They read everything we post. They just don’t respond because it’s more of an office joke to them tbh.

Like, “oh look did you see what they’re complaining about today? It’s like they think we have a dungeon team, LOL”

I’m kidding Anet dev team rocks. <3

I like the anet team a lot as well and im sure they currently are looking deeply at this post. Likely we about to get a lot of guy storming in to protect the zerker way and just as many people to burn it down.

As guanlongwucaii mentionned maybe fiery rush is overdue for it.

kyubi.3620:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Lupicus-World-Record-7-033-seconds-by-rT/first#post3560931

Im bringing this topic to the profession balance topic so to make sure the dev see the abomination zerker builds have wrought upon the pve part of the game… how can they pretend the game is balanced when a well organised team can down lupicus in 7 second.

Again it just legitimise their choice to nerf zerker damage slightly but i think 10% damage loss is hardly punishing enought.

http://youtu.be/b2VhmwLwvrM?t=6m46s

FGS OP. Reflects OP. Actually thinking about the mechanics of the game and finding the best strategy instead of complaining about pet builds: OP.

maxinion.8396:

FGS OP. Reflects OP. Actually thinking about the mechanics of the game and finding the best strategy instead of complaining about pet builds: OP.

Actually the fact that the game ever existed is blatantly a bug.

Edit: ^_~ but it’s a fabulous bugame.

Fiery Greatsword’s Rush is broken. Without a target you can just stack a big trail on a target, twice. Resulting in a massive explosion of hits, with Lupicus having such a large hitbox i can only imagine that its easy enough to land everything right on him.

This is not a zerker problem, but a problem of how Fiery rush works. And its not the only place or mode fiery rush is being a problem.

Berserker is fine. The encounters which promote pure berserker specs are not.

Even if berserker was nerfed to be only 20% more damage than soldier’s, people would still take berserker over anything else.

Fiery Rush just needs to be fixed so that it can only count each target once. You can rush through something, but it deals only a single fire-spot worth of damage.

Just because you can’t get a team that can down him in less than a minute, let alone melee him, doesn’t mean others can’t. Besides do you even know how many tries it took to get a kill this fast?

Its not about a mather of tries its about the fact they actualy managed to do it.

Sure im an average player who does his high fractal every day i aint anything special like any of the people in this vid. Doesnt change the fact that no mather how they did it they actualy managed to down a very huge health bar boss within 7 seconds and this is not balanced in the least. An average fight should last at least 1 to 5 minute even with maximum damage. A hard fight like this one? 10 minute at least

As said either the boss needs a revision either something in the game is broken big time and needs attending to.

kyubi.3620:

Again it just legitimise their choice to nerf zerker damage slightly but i think 10% damage loss is hardly punishing enought.

Instead of nerfing everyones damage to fix damage against mobs in PVE, they could just bump mobs toughness in PVE!?

Nop, sry, makes to much sense…

teg.1340:

kyubi.3620:

Again it just legitimise their choice to nerf zerker damage slightly but i think 10% damage loss is hardly punishing enought.

Instead of nerfing everyones damage to fix damage against mobs in PVE, they could just bump mobs toughness in PVE!?

Nop, sry, makes to much sense…

Thats actualy a very constructive idea and it might even be recommandable. Not for all mob however because jf they raise the armor cap to much its just gunna be punishing everyone but condition damage build and it will be the same as if nerfing zerker. Maybe all we need is larger variation of the armor stats amonst mobs so to make build effective and inefective in defrent situation aka the rock dog theory.

Fiery rush however is clearly a problem.

it isn’t. bump up mob toughness and you get kitten like dredge. what ANet should be doing is making condition damage stronger because even full offensive condi gear stats like rampager are still far inferior to zerker.

making dungeon runs take longer won’t balance the game out more, it’ll just make things more tedious (which may be their intention judging by recent changes)

teg.1340:

kyubi.3620:

Again it just legitimise their choice to nerf zerker damage slightly but i think 10% damage loss is hardly punishing enought.

Instead of nerfing everyones damage to fix damage against mobs in PVE, they could just bump mobs toughness in PVE!?

Nop, sry, makes to much sense…

While I agree it makes sense, I don’t think that it will make any other gear stat type better.

I think they should just buff other stat types to make them worth taking, or modifying mob AI to require different tactics in order to kill it’s either with puzzles, or something.

As long as the mobs are the same, there will never be a meta change.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

maxinion.8396:

FGS OP. Reflects OP. Actually thinking about the mechanics of the game and finding the best strategy instead of complaining about pet builds: OP.

Actually the fact that the game ever existed is blatantly a bug.

Edit: ^_~ but it’s a fabulous bugame.

I knorite? Other people are having fun, bug confirmed, plz fix.

(Straight face mode: awesome game, great fun, excellent community challenging themselves to play as best as possible. What’s not to love?)

A team with a ranger can kill him 3 times faster than a team with just warriors and one mesmer.

Nerf rangers, they are obviously too strong.

we managed to do it because we have great players, great theorycrafters, great coordination and great understanding of the game.

just because one guild has done it, and just because 3 or 4 guilds would be able to do it, it doesnt mean everyone can do it.

and you cant kyubi, thats for sure. you are jelly and thats the only reason why you are doing this.

Nah i just cant agree on something like this wich is near exploitlike.
Im more then satisfyed by taking down lupicus with a pug team without wiping so idm not having your level.

Nothing personnal, that you guys figured something this powerful and applicated is a tribute to skill, however such stuff generaly are a hint that something needs to be fixed.

kyubi.3620:

However such stuff generaly are a hint that something needs to be nerfed.

Says you. Do you speak for anet?

No but i dont expect them to watch placidly as a team of player just proven them something in the game is totaly nuts. What do you think will be their reaction?

kyubi.3620:

No but i dont expect them to watch placidly as a team of player just proven them something in the game is totaly nuts. What do you think will be their reaction?

Their reaction: “we have known about this for 6 months or more and are gathering feedback.”

Seriously.

Thats likely what will happen and in one year or two well actualy see a random nerf to FGS along with some more scarlet stuff because Anet likes to takes its time and prioritise the living story but yea we likely gunna see something.

kyubi.3620:

Nah i just hate on something like this wich is near exploitlike

Nothing personnal, that you guys figured something this powerful and applicated is a tribute to skill. However such stuff generaly are a hint that something needs to be nerfed.

Ice bow rangers with a bear, obviously. Without a ranger it would have been impossible.

kyubi.3620:

Thats likely what will happen and in one year or two well actualy see a random nerf to FGS along with some more scarlet stuff because Anet likes to takes its time and prioritise the living story but yea we likely gunna see something.

Well aren’t you just a bright ray of sunshine and hope. It’s very cute.

It will be a stealth nerf, and they won’t comment on it. And it will be far far far too late, and it will be at a time where the rest of damage has been nerfed so that existing content has become grueling time wasters, and thus the only source of damage will be gone. In other words, it will be much like the over zealous karma nerf.

‘’it will be much like the over zealous karma nerf.’’ When was that already i might have missed it and i barely noticed because i aint farming karma that much, just doing my event as i find them.

kyubi.3620:

‘’it will be much like the over zealous karma nerf.’’ When was that already i might have missed it and i barely noticed because i aint farming karma that much, just doing my event as i find them.

They got rid of karma from dungeons.

They lowered the karma you get from dailies and monthly very significantly.

Karma consumables (jugs and such) are no longer affected by karma boosts.

Basically, where people used to be able to get 1million karma in a day if casual play, which I agree needed to be nerfed, now I struggle to get 10k in a day. It’s insanity.

Well its like the early day.. i guess karma is a precious ressource now. I never actualy abused of any of those trick to get my karma and im prety much at 1 mil but i got it over the year because i didnt spent it.

kyubi.3620:

Well its like the early day.. i guess karma is a precious ressource now. I never actualy abused of any of those trick to get my karma and im prety much at 1 mil but i got it over the year because i didnt spent it.

Wait, so running dungeons was a trick or abuse?

And getting dailies and monthlies?

And using karma boosters for what they were actually intended for?

I think you really need to reevaluate your designation of trick or exploit. Because frankly, even running an event in the game is apt to become a trick to you.

teg.1340:

Instead of nerfing everyones damage to fix damage against mobs in PVE, they could just bump mobs toughness in PVE!?

Nop, sry, makes to much sense…

PvP damage could be lower too, though. Especially max-end damage. You can go down too fast, depending on line and lag there’s barely a change to use an escape skill.

kyubi.3620:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Lupicus-World-Record-7-033-seconds-by-rT/first#post3560931

Im bringing this topic to the profession balance topic so to make sure the dev see the abomination damage builds have wrought upon the pve part of the game… how can they pretend the game is balanced when a well organised team can down lupicus in 7 second.

Idk what the exact culprit is but it needs some attending to

The exact culprit is +Crit and +Crit Damage. They were dumb stats to ever add to gear.

Xae.7204:

kyubi.3620:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Lupicus-World-Record-7-033-seconds-by-rT/first#post3560931

Im bringing this topic to the profession balance topic so to make sure the dev see the abomination damage builds have wrought upon the pve part of the game… how can they pretend the game is balanced when a well organised team can down lupicus in 7 second.

Idk what the exact culprit is but it needs some attending to

The exact culprit is +Crit and +Crit Damage. They were dumb stats to ever add to gear.

Tbh I feel the same about
+healing power
+vitality

Lilith Ajit.6173:

kyubi.3620:

Well its like the early day.. i guess karma is a precious ressource now. I never actualy abused of any of those trick to get my karma and im prety much at 1 mil but i got it over the year because i didnt spent it.

Wait, so running dungeons was a trick or abuse?

And getting dailies and monthlies?

And using karma boosters for what they were actually intended for?

I think you really need to reevaluate your designation of trick or exploit. Because frankly, even running an event in the game is apt to become a trick to you.

Sure its 100% legit but i never actualy used them to begin with. Never cared to actualy, i realy dont get why they even added those items in the first place (30 karma booster in bank o_O what are these for? I think i forgot)

Guys i figured it out. The op is Lupi on an alt. kitten lupi y u do dis.

In all seriousness why do you purpose this change? Sure it is a huge exploit but what motivated you to put this on here.

The only way you can ’’fix’’ this without makin the skill useless is make it require target to be used. So you can just run into a wall and fart fire in place that pwns things.

Congrats kyubi, you are the first person that I have come to truly hate on these forums. You represent everything I loathe in the human race. Your posts are never constructive, all you are trying to do is to shape the game in your image without a single spec of regard for other players.

But to the topic: speedruns are the meta, because there is not enough new content to challenge players to do anything else. Berserkers melt in a matter of seconds when things don’t go right, and unless you are experienced in running the dungeon, things never go right. All that you hate on are guilds and groups that do manage to do the things right, and receive proper rewards for their efforts, which are still sub-par to rewards from open world content which requires no effort other than time investment. You have never backed any of your claims by your own videos and findings, you have ever only hated on things others have done, which you could not.

All this post says to me is:

“To all of you very skilled players out there, I am not as skilled as you and it is unfair that you should practice and be better than me.”

Maybe FGS needs a bit of a fix, but to state that players using berserker gear is an abomination is ridiculous. These players plan out exactly what they need to do and I am sure it does not always go smoothly; we just see the final result of hard work. The risk/reward ratio is defined by both the power of everyone running berserker gear and the safety of everyone running cleric’s gear. A team full of skilled players playing their class in full damage gear should definitely be finishing dungeons/bosses faster than those groups who run full cleric’s and can easily face-tank every threat in the game.

And besides, these groups that go full melee on Lupicus and do it well most every time represent a small portion of the player-base (probably less than 1%). The thought that an entire play-style should be nerfed to the ground because the top PvE guilds are very skilled shows how out-of-touch many people are with the current player-base. When I look in the LFG, probably 90 percent (maybe more) of non-fractal groups I see advertise for anyone; I very rarely see these zerker gear-ping groups that many people claim plague the LFG.

Since this has seemed to turn into a fgs balance thread here are my 2 cents on the skill. Fgs gets complained about for 2 reasons, 1 fiery rush against wall or with a teleport, and 2 running away in wvw. However aside from those 2 situations, it is a really bad elite skill on a long cool down so it would need some sort of buff to make it still worth using, ever. The auto attack is pretty weak, the burn is strong but no way of reliably adding cover conditions so easily cleansed, 3 and 4 skills only really good for running away, and the 5 aoe skill is decent as well, but does not justify the cool down. So if the mobility and fiery rush are nerfed, this would be a fine change only if compensated for in other ways so that it has less of a purely niche roll.

Silferas.3841:

Congrats kyubi, you are the first person that I have come to truly hate on these forums. You represent everything I loathe in the human race. Your posts are never constructive, all you are trying to do is to shape the game in your image without a single spec of regard for other players.

But to the topic: speedruns are the meta, because there is not enough new content to challenge players to do anything else. Berserkers melt in a matter of seconds when things don’t go right, and unless you are experienced in running the dungeon, things never go right. All that you hate on are guilds and groups that do manage to do the things right, and receive proper rewards for their efforts, which are still sub-par to rewards from open world content which requires no effort other than time investment. You have never backed any of your claims by your own videos and findings, you have ever only hated on things others have done, which you could not.

I wouldnt do it even if i could in the first place. To be honest yes your right i do this because im fighting against something, Glass cannon meta build and yes im doing all in my power to murder it. So yea i gladly provide the dev all proof there is needed if they will actualy burn it to the ground. This is not hate, this is an attempt at freedom

Because i play many build wich are disregarded as useless because of Meta zerker very existance yet still deserve some apreciation. While i do have a meta warrior and a meta guardian i would rather play hammer or dual sword but i cannot. Because play how you want gets you nowhere in this game. Behing shackled by the way a blind community view the game is whats left of a future to actual good player in Guild Wars 2. When i join a decent party and offer to run something what do i get everytime? Pleaaaase run your warrior pleaaaaaaase run your guardian we dont want to have more condition damage or control based unit in our party because its useless.

Im tired of the constant waste of time required on a game where im shackled to playing only 1 role because people are blind to the usefullness of the other specs all this due to the fact damage is king. In every single game including the ones where tank and healer are omnipresent supportive unit have little value save for their ability to heal people. I ran SOS beastmaster and MM in guild wars 1, i wish for that era to come back.

Why am i still playing if im sick of it all? Because i gave up on the constant increasingly boring end game dungeon runs wich doesnt serve any purpose but to stack gold to play alts only now in order to lvl them to 80 and gear them fashionably all while working on my personnal gimmicks and because i keep hoping and fighting for a future where all the builds are equal in the eye of common dungeon runners.

Running a non meta is viable in pug yes… but does it bring you respect? Was any minion master or turret enginer ever praised for his work? Do you guys even respect that staff guardian who keeps buffing you or that elixir enginer who keeps sending boons to the team? No you dont because people all think pets and supportive roles are for noobs and that players like that only deserve the kick button in an organised party.

Its funny how from one side of the forum im fighting for the pets to be actualy competitive and on the other side im fighting to kill the pure zerkers. What im fighting for? To be honest what i want is simply for all build to be equaly effective without discrimination. I want my darn minion master or my turret enginer to hit as hard as the guy next door who run a full glass cannon build but that aint gunna happen right? If i can actualy get glass cannon to be slightly better then pet builds at worse ill likely be fine with the final result but thats not gunna happen as well.

So yes… go ahead and hate on me for hating on the one build everyone including myself play so well it became the only viable build.

As for FGS how about they reinforce all other attack damage save for rush on FSG so to turn it into a burst mode for ele in about a same fashion as the warrior great sword without making it overwelming. That 1 is actualy somewhat interesting

There’s.. Other options.

Why kill berserker? Why not ask for the buffing of other builds, rather than “developers, kill this! Murder this!” First of all your language is harsh and not conducive to constructive feedback. Second of all, why aren’t you asking for people to be on an equal playing field? Cleric and tank builds are working as intended. You can sit and not dodge once in this fight. What berserker does is take off the training wheels and force you to utilize skill to defeat something. I just don’t understand why you want to nerf something that requires skill into oblivion.

kyubi.3620:

Silferas.3841:

Congrats kyubi, you are the first person that I have come to truly hate on these forums. You represent everything I loathe in the human race. Your posts are never constructive, all you are trying to do is to shape the game in your image without a single spec of regard for other players.

But to the topic: speedruns are the meta, because there is not enough new content to challenge players to do anything else. Berserkers melt in a matter of seconds when things don’t go right, and unless you are experienced in running the dungeon, things never go right. All that you hate on are guilds and groups that do manage to do the things right, and receive proper rewards for their efforts, which are still sub-par to rewards from open world content which requires no effort other than time investment. You have never backed any of your claims by your own videos and findings, you have ever only hated on things others have done, which you could not.

Glass cannon meta build and yes im doing all in my power to murder it.

you need to visit a hospital or something. really. this is more psycho than anything else ive ever seen on this forum

because it makes all the other build looks like noob builds and shackle me to a single role. I dont care if im better at this role then i am with any other spec i just dont want to play it constantly.

We both know that if they improve all the roles to the same level as zerker we just going to go back to the trinity again

An improved control is the same as a tank
An improved support is just the same as a healer

Support and control is easily achieved even by the DPS spec so why play it… what incentive is there for the players to actualy run some form of it in a concentrated way? Truth is this game is so focused on how fast we can take down the mob that no one will see the usefullness of those build until they either get improved to the point they are definitively OP or until the damage itself becomes subpar to those roles as an actual supplement.

If we had a game of somewhat equaly damaging character with few differance and having damage wasnt this rewarding some player would likely focus on keeping mob inactive and incapacitated rather then killing them as fast as possible.

So let me get this strait they killed a boss in 7 sec and your reaction isn’t “wow that’s pretty good how’d they do that. Can i learn how to improve from this?” it’s “Oh my gosh i can’t do that neither should they that’s wrong. we need to nerf something”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality

MastaNeenja.1537:

So let me get this strait they killed a boss in 7 sec and your reaction isn’t “wow that’s pretty good how’d they do that. Can i learn how to improve from this?” it’s “Oh my gosh i can’t do that neither should they that’s wrong. we need to nerf something”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality

I dont care if i can do it or not i think i said it before. I think no one should be able to down a hard fought boss within less then 5 minute. Some things should simply remain impossible even at the highest skill cap

The idea and the hardwork actualy is good. The reason why it worked however is not.
At this point overdamaging a boss to the point of breaking the game to its simplyest is simply wrong no mather how skilled the players who did it were. The issue is not the player themselves its the tools theyve been given to do it.

I would rather see a world of tanks and support with damage as a back role in a heavy damaging mob fashion then a quick kill skip the mechanic game.

kyubi.3620:

MastaNeenja.1537:

So let me get this strait they killed a boss in 7 sec and your reaction isn’t “wow that’s pretty good how’d they do that. Can i learn how to improve from this?” it’s “Oh my gosh i can’t do that neither should they that’s wrong. we need to nerf something”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality

I dont care if i can do it or not i think i said it before. I think no one should be able to down a hard fought boss within less then 5 minute. Some things should simply remain impossible even at the highest skill cap

The idea and the hardwork actualy is good. The reason why it worked however is not.
At this point overdamaging a boss to the point of breaking the game to its simplyest is simply wrong no mather how skilled the players who did it were. The issue is not the player themselves its the tools theyve been given to do it.

I would rather see a world of tanks and support with damage as a back role in a heavy damaging mob fashion then a quick kill skip the mechanic game.

then what about if you get 5 kyubis together and do it? show us how easy it is

and it wasnt the fgs that made this kill possible. it was the ranger with frostspirit and spotter.

just sayin

Hey Kyubi, how does that affect you actually? Have you ever been in a party that killed Lupi under one minute? Have you ever tried to make your LFG look like what you want?

The two things I’m saying is that you should play how you want with the people you want. And nobody forces you to go full zerker and play speedruns. So go on, “play how you want” and leave the actual speedruns problems to those that are interested in it.

Also the possibility that it could be done was always there. Only now you decide to bring it up because a group of skilled players pulled it off. Besides you won’t see this in every run, needless to say in any of your runs.