Guild Wars 2

There is nothing wrong with axe. Learn how to set up combos like Mesmers have to for their shatters.

I think what he is trying to say is that Necromancer was left last with very little changes that would effect it positively balance wise across Gametypes (PvE, PvP, WvW). There was also very little time to leave effective feedback due to this.

Loyo.8526:

I think what he is trying to say is that Necromancer was left last with very little changes that would effect it positively balance wise across Gametypes (PvE, PvP, WvW). There was also very little time to leave effective feedback due to this.

at least no nerf \o/

Wyrden.4713:

Loyo.8526:

I think what he is trying to say is that Necromancer was left last with very little changes that would effect it positively balance wise across Gametypes (PvE, PvP, WvW). There was also very little time to leave effective feedback due to this.

at least no nerf \o/

Lichform lost 1/3 of it’s duration and no more well shenanigans for PvE.
Corrupt boon got an extra 0.25second cast time, too little to be significant since animation has almost no tells, but still a nerf.

Zefrost.3425:

There is nothing wrong with axe. Learn how to set up combos like Mesmers have to for their shatters.

Axe auto is about as awful as current mesmer scepter auto.
Heck, every single main hand Necro weapon has one useless skill.

Axe 1, Dagger 2 and Scepter 3, make a weapon with those 3 skills and you have the absolute worst MH you can actually imagine.

Kiriakulos.1690:

Wyrden.4713:

Loyo.8526:

I think what he is trying to say is that Necromancer was left last with very little changes that would effect it positively balance wise across Gametypes (PvE, PvP, WvW). There was also very little time to leave effective feedback due to this.

at least no nerf \o/

Lichform lost 1/3 of it’s duration and no more well shenanigans for PvE.
Corrupt boon got an extra 0.25second cast time, too little to be significant since animation has almost no tells, but still a nerf.

Corrupt Boon’s usability didn’t change, though, since the 1/4 second added to the cast was removed from the aftercast. It actually should feel more responsive now.

Bacon.1835:

• Unholy Sanctuary – In addition to healing, this trait will now activate Death Shroud if you have enough Life Force when you take a lethal blow (i.e. an attack that would kill you). This trait has 30s internal CD and even if your Death Shroud is on cooldown it will circumvent that cooldown.

Why?…. Seriously what is the though process here?….

Making sure you’ll go back to 0 LF if you take this trait and find yourself in an unwinable position.

I can think of ways to abuse the added function of Unholy Sanctuary. Really, if you died before, you died without much life force, so that really isn’t changing much. If you died with plenty of life force, but death shroud was on cooldown, this can buy you some time, and it’s healing the whole time as well.

KrisHQ.4719:

None of these changes were game-changing, luckily.
Condition specs didn’t get the buff I feared, but yet power-specs didnt receive any either.
I don’t play Necromancer, but I can acknowledge when specs are out of balance. Power-necro is still only viable because of Lich Form, which is a horribly designed elite skill. The most powerful skill should NEVER be an auto-attack. They should’ve nerfed the auto-attack dmg while distributing the damage (or usefulness) of the other skills. Additionally to that, they should’ve increased the sustain for power specs only (dagger, axe).
On the bright side, these changes won’t break the game for another lame meta.

No not the Necro changes.
But you will probably learn a new degree of regret from Ranger/Mesmer/Engi, the power creep is strong on these prof’s buffs.

Am I the only necro that likes most of the changes?

I like the changes. What I don’t like is the fact the Blood Magic line was 100% untouched. You know, the traitline where, out of 16 total traits, only 2 don’t contribute to sustain at all? Why was this entire traitline untouched on a patch focusing on sustain primarily?

Definitely a useless change. A .5 second cast time to a subtle animation and no projectile travel time is still for all intents and purposes undodgeable unless you get lucky. For reference signet of spite is .75s cast time, with a way more obvious animation, and I still only dodge it if the necro is stupid enough to open with it. Once the fight really starts and spells are flying around everywhere the cast is still too quick for me to identify and dodge it in time and I get hit right at the start of the dodging animation. Now on to corrupt boon which got “counterplay” by giving it cast time only 2/3’s the length of sos and an even more subtle animation, it is just pointless (unless you have jesus reaction times).

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Am I the only necro that likes most of the changes?

I like the changes. What I don’t like is the fact the Blood Magic line was 100% untouched. You know, the traitline where, out of 16 total traits, only 2 don’t contribute to sustain at all? Why was this entire traitline untouched on a patch focusing on sustain primarily?

The changes they made are good, but it’s not going to shake the necro meta or necromancer’s ovedrall standings in pretty much anything.

Necro’s probably needed the 2nd most love in this pacth (according to that poll done a while back on which classes needed it the most) and didn’t get it, despite literally thousands of posts of feedback.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Am I the only necro that likes most of the changes?

The necro community made over 17 threads in 3 days to pitch a fit about the date they were even doing the ready up involving them. At that point was that not a sign of the unreasonable hate to come?

the only real nerf would be lich form duration, and lets be honest, if u positioned well and ur enemys r busy, lich form reks everything, so lich form nerf is understandable

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

I Like the chages too, but again they are totally negated by what some professions get to compliment their current builds and/or creat options for new builds (spvp).

Every class got a “press this button to kitten ton of damage without consequence” skill that can be dodged, while having acces to vigor and evade skills ON WEAPONS not to mention ways to cover heals,

Is that so? So break it down for use, and by profession, what “press one button” skill did each profession get that “doeas a kitten ton of damage”? Specifically warriors, engineers, elementalist, and thieves. List thier massive damage buffs your claiming and how much damage the buff is please.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

expecting necro to save the dodge for that 8 second CD skill. Without vigor and being focused troughout the encounter.

Don’t be foolish. Every profession gets focused. Stop attempting to suggest only the necromancer get focused, its unreasonable.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

i guess they saw necro getting rekt in their tests and decided to give that cd reduction on a skill that literally gets it’s boon stripped instantly

Who is stripping these boons? There are few boon stripping skills in the game and several of them are on our profession.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

by proxy leaving a proc stunbreak in a stun immobilize heavy meta. stunned then evis oh look my stunbreak proc-ed after i took that huge burst accomplished by pressing 1 button.

Stun and immobilization are two entirely different things. The necromancer is the best profession to transfer condition, consume conditions, and remove conditions, that if you have a problem with immobilize, I have to feel it is truly your fault. Stuns, on the other hand are a different story. To be honest though, necros are no more susceptible to stuns then engineers are to to conditions.

Jelzouki.4128:

Arenanet skipped out on the Necromancer for this feature patch just like they did in the first one. When are we going to see some REAL changes?!!?!?!? Can they just kittening make our siphoning builds effective in PvP already?!?!

Tell that to warriors who literally got nerfed, while the necromancer recieved a list of small buffs.

Every profession gets focused, but only necros are unable to do anything about it.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Jelzouki.4128:

Arenanet skipped out on the Necromancer for this feature patch just like they did in the first one. When are we going to see some REAL changes?!!?!?!? Can they just kittening make our siphoning builds effective in PvP already?!?!

Tell that to warriors who literally got nerfed, while the necromancer recieved a list of small buffs.

I’d be fine getting nerfed if my class was top tier in all game modes, but necromancers were not top tier in any game mode save large scale WvW, and those small buffs aren’t enough to move them out of that place. If anything the lich nerf, while fair and warranted will make the few power necromancers in pvp less viable because they can’t sway team fights as easily with lich.

The adrenaline change is a nerf that promotes active play, and those that use a longbow won’t see much of a difference. I don’t think that nerf will make them a lower tier class in any game mode, but they may be a bit less common in pvp in the future.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Jelzouki.4128:

Arenanet skipped out on the Necromancer for this feature patch just like they did in the first one. When are we going to see some REAL changes?!!?!?!? Can they just kittening make our siphoning builds effective in PvP already?!?!

Tell that to warriors who literally got nerfed, while the necromancer recieved a list of small buffs.

necro was never rly awesome to begin with unlike wars

It’s entirely as Bhawb said. The useless necromancer builds will still be useless after this patch.
I don’t mind some of the changes, but they hardly introduce much new playstyle to the necro and it also hardly helps the builds that are slowly falling out of favor.
It could improve the shroud tank but I doubt just being tanky is enough if you can’t add a reasonable amount of support or control to the team.

Dancingmonkey, I think you are missing the fact that warrior has been in favor on all game modes with various builds. Its top tier roaming, top tier PvE, and so high in TPvp that some teams actually consider running 2-3 of them per team. Compared to necro that you would be lucky to see roaming solo/duo or even in Tpvp. . . It really doesnt compare.

Plus, Lich form was pretty much the biggest positive to running power necro in TPvP over other DPS classes. now that its been normalized, its a lot less effective and will most likely push it out of meta. While Warrior still has Longbow to deal with adrenaline change.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Am I the only necro that likes most of the changes?

I like the changes. What I don’t like is the fact the Blood Magic line was 100% untouched. You know, the traitline where, out of 16 total traits, only 2 don’t contribute to sustain at all? Why was this entire traitline untouched on a patch focusing on sustain primarily?

tbh, no one said these changes was bad. Its the fact that there needed to be more is the big problem. compare this to ranger and Engie and its shockingly minor. Especially due to the feedback most of us have given over the few months before hand and even these past few days.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I can think of ways to abuse the added function of Unholy Sanctuary. Really, if you died before, you died without much life force, so that really isn’t changing much. If you died with plenty of life force, but death shroud was on cooldown, this can buy you some time, and it’s healing the whole time as well.

Honestly though, if you require DS to automatically absorb a death blow, that really is an L2Play issue.

Loyo.8526:

Dancingmonkey, I think you are missing the fact that warrior has been in favor on all game modes with various builds. Its top tier roaming, top tier PvE, and so high in TPvp that some teams actually consider running 2-3 of them per team. Compared to necro that you would be lucky to see roaming solo/duo or even in Tpvp. . . It really doesnt compare.

Plus, Lich form was pretty much the biggest positive to running power necro in TPvP over other DPS classes. now that its been normalized, its a lot less effective and will most likely push it out of meta. While Warrior still has Longbow to deal with adrenaline change.

Lich form’s power scaling got buffed, though. It’s going to do the same damage over the course of the duration but just in fewer hits over less time. If anything, it’s a massive buff due to to the sheer amount of damage per hit it will be doing.

DeceiverX.8361:

Loyo.8526:

Dancingmonkey, I think you are missing the fact that warrior has been in favor on all game modes with various builds. Its top tier roaming, top tier PvE, and so high in TPvp that some teams actually consider running 2-3 of them per team. Compared to necro that you would be lucky to see roaming solo/duo or even in Tpvp. . . It really doesnt compare.

Plus, Lich form was pretty much the biggest positive to running power necro in TPvP over other DPS classes. now that its been normalized, its a lot less effective and will most likely push it out of meta. While Warrior still has Longbow to deal with adrenaline change.

Lich form’s power scaling got buffed, though. It’s going to do the same damage over the course of the duration but just in fewer hits over less time. If anything, it’s a massive buff due to to the sheer amount of damage per hit it will be doing.

But lichs duration was cut to 20 seconds and the damage per hit should be the same as before (note for zerker builds) so i am not sure if this is a buff. I would argue it is rather a nerf.

DeceiverX.8361:

Loyo.8526:

Dancingmonkey, I think you are missing the fact that warrior has been in favor on all game modes with various builds. Its top tier roaming, top tier PvE, and so high in TPvp that some teams actually consider running 2-3 of them per team. Compared to necro that you would be lucky to see roaming solo/duo or even in Tpvp. . . It really doesnt compare.

Plus, Lich form was pretty much the biggest positive to running power necro in TPvP over other DPS classes. now that its been normalized, its a lot less effective and will most likely push it out of meta. While Warrior still has Longbow to deal with adrenaline change.

Lich form’s power scaling got buffed, though. It’s going to do the same damage over the course of the duration but just in fewer hits over less time. If anything, it’s a massive buff due to to the sheer amount of damage per hit it will be doing.

You are not factoring in the REASON for the nerf’. Lich form was able to proc Spinal shivers for 5k and most of the sigils for well over 2-3k while doing 3-5k auto attacks. that means that people were being hit for 13k damage at once in some cases while having chill applied to them. The duration was just kick in the knees after doing so to prevent problems. If necro was heavy on might stacking, it can maybe get a little bit close to that damage, but most likely will peak to 7-9k, not 13-15k.

Then again, I could be wrong on the peaking place since tbh, I have to actually calculate the damage coefficients. which we dont have yet.

While 2-target cleave is a step in the right direction for PvE, I have a hard time accepting that a standard cleave would be too much.

The changes were disappointing and not enough. That said the changes that were previewed are mostly fine.

Only thing i feel should be considered is Lich Form. The duration and power scaling nerf is fine. But i feel the cooldown should be reduced to compensate the duration decrease. Otherwise the nerf is going a bit overboard.

When you get marks spammed right under your feet proccing their effects instantly? Not that they do big harm (well, depends on situation)…
Gust – Ele focus #5 – no animation – knockdown only though.

Probably more non telegraphed attacks on different proffestions as well, if you count that for “no counter play”. I see it as something, that you can’t react to – do something on time to not have the negative effect hit you.

what a bunch of ungrateful dead.

necros are already very strong, too strong in the condition spam department when combined with fear locking and have very good sustain when built around deathshroud.

the changes to DS were HUGE. it gives access to stability stomping and ressing that necros have needed since forever. the lower cooldown on spectral armor triggers gives much more sustain to a build that already had a ton (sustain being life force gen, not heals).

siphoning would be an awesome mechanic to introduce properly but there really isnt a way to do it properly. if it scaled better off of power, you could go full offensive and have great healing without having the normal stat loss for sustain. if it scaled based off healing, condi necros which are already over the line in terms of being too strong would start running apoth. the cooldown is way too long, but signet of vampirism is a solid sustain ability an i get the feeling a lot of necros have never given it a fair shot.

if anything was missing from these changes, its that condi needed to be toned down significantly and dark path couldve been changed to ground target (no target required) on a longer cooldown).

Raven.9603:

what a bunch of ungrateful dead. snip…

Not ungrateful at all, if anything I am grateful for ANet finally giving me a reason to switch my main to one of my other classes.

Yes the DS ability to rez and down was a nice change, and yes a cooldown on some spectral skills will be nice too (not all of us use them though, so not so much). My problem is that in all the tweaking all the other classes got, we are still either forced to take a GM trait for the stability or become a virtual ping pong ball, not to mention we have NO reliable escape after a year and change of playing.

I am now quite sick of being a sitting duck with only one viable build option in WvW (fear spam). Leveling a mesmer currently because they not only get stealth, but the torment/confusion we should have been given if we were to offer a challenge.

I will not stop bumping this thread until this necromancer issue is addressed!! I want to see a developer comment on this and take everything here into consideration and COMMUNICATE with us necros to let us know what is going to be done.

I don’t understand why the engineer already being the most diverse class gets more builds with the patch and gets a nerf to only 1 trait and necromancer getting this many nerfs and close to nothing of note that would introduce new builds (life siphon builds, support builds, etc)

I also would have expected at least a minor fix to the kitten y minion AI after two years.

Since these threads were merged and the OP was mine, I edited it to try to bring together all the posts that are now in this thread.

All these complaints are too late into the development cycle for anything to change.

Remember they do these skillbars to give an illusion of feedback consideration, but the fact that this game doesn’t have a test server clearly shows what weight is given to player feedback on incoming changes. Very little.

Development in this game as it pertains classes is not collaborative with players at all. If it were, ranger and necromancer wouldn’t be in the garbage bin for more than 2 years.

And quite frankly, has anyone noticed how you only see Karl in skillbar whereas before you would see 3 designers before? I’m pretty sure the balance team is just made up of Karl by now, at least in terms of workload.

Raven.9603:

siphoning would be an awesome mechanic to introduce properly but there really isnt a way to do it properly. if it scaled better off of power, you could go full offensive and have great healing without having the normal stat loss for sustain. if it scaled based off healing, condi necros which are already over the line in terms of being too strong would start running apoth. the cooldown is way too long, but signet of vampirism is a solid sustain ability an i get the feeling a lot of necros have never given it a fair shot.

No signet of vampirism doenst have solid sustain. Even in siphon builds well of blood or CC gives always better sustain. Heck even bloodfiend gives better sustain…
There is no reason for a necromancer to take SoV over the other heals apart from 3 or 4 pve encounters.

Need uptime recovery: traited heal (siphoning and parasitic contagion) should be allowed in DS even if regen does nothing,investing in traits shouldn’t carry a downside created by main mechanism. Aren’t traits based on classes? Necro doesn’t need more healing we need our traits to work.

Other than actual patch can someone tell me how will we know feedback has been considered ? The mesmer changes happened in less than 1 week it is the same for necro?

I just recieved 3 infractions for various posts defending this class from people that don’t main it and say that subpar traits and our sustain is fine! Oh well, I guess its a good thing that this is merged so if the devs are able to look at this, they can gather appropriate feedback.

Bacon.1835:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I can think of ways to abuse the added function of Unholy Sanctuary. Really, if you died before, you died without much life force, so that really isn’t changing much. If you died with plenty of life force, but death shroud was on cooldown, this can buy you some time, and it’s healing the whole time as well.

Honestly though, if you require DS to automatically absorb a death blow, that really is an L2Play issue.

Honestly, if you’re dying and not already out of life force, it’s a L2P issue.

This change won’t do anything about that. What it might do, however, is save you if you get bursted hard right after leaving death shroud voluntarily.

Our focus for necromancers in this balance update has been on improving their survivability through utilities and traits as well as improving the overall effectiveness of their melee and skirmishing weapons. You’ll see that the dagger auto-attack will now hit two targets, while the axe’s animations have been tuned to be more fluid. Along with weapon skill updates, your utility skills have been updated to provide more survivability over time.

Am I over-interpreting this or do I have a feeling that there would be more changes?
To me, the phrase “utility skills have been updated” would translate to more than just a lower recharge on spectral armor and “traits” would mean more than just a functionality update on unholy sanctuary. Are there going to be more changes or is it just bad wording/interpretation?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Am I the only necro that likes most of the changes?

I like the changes. What I don’t like is the fact the Blood Magic line was 100% untouched. You know, the traitline where, out of 16 total traits, only 2 don’t contribute to sustain at all? Why was this entire traitline untouched on a patch focusing on sustain primarily?

I like the changes. It just wasn’t enough to address one of the many necromancer main issues. And even less once you start comparing with other professions. The thing is that waiting during 5 months just for quality of life change sucks….

Rework all those necro skill which instantly work and are 1200 range aoe with little anime, then we could start talking about necro issue in pvp.
About pve ,again it’s dungeon design issue really . It is . Making everyone with lots of damage and might stack is not a way to go .

I don’t think necro has problem in wvw .

Burjis.3087:

Our focus for necromancers in this balance update has been on improving their survivability through utilities and traits as well as improving the overall effectiveness of their melee and skirmishing weapons. You’ll see that the dagger auto-attack will now hit two targets, while the axe’s animations have been tuned to be more fluid. Along with weapon skill updates, your utility skills have been updated to provide more survivability over time.

Am I over-interpreting this or do I have a feeling that there would be more changes?
To me, the phrase “utility skills have been updated” would translate to more than just a lower recharge on spectral armor and “traits” would mean more than just a functionality update on unholy sanctuary. Are there going to be more changes or is it just bad wording/interpretation?

I made a thread that is somewhere in this thread that literally called out the same thing. It it literally worded in a way that implies there would be more than one utility changed. The thing is, if they just spread the cooldown reduction treatment around more, it would really improve the patch.

What I think is really fascinating though, is that they increased swiftness on warhorn. Why not give it group utility and group swiftness? I mean realistically that is a buff but it changes so little that it isn’t meaningful because we could already have perma swiftness.

I also want to take a second and point out that many of the complaints are coming from a pvp and PVE perspective. Necros are ok in WvW. But it isn’t the same. Please consider that before saying necros are fine.

looks like the necro criticism is getting the Skyhammer treatment, were they just spam merge and don’t give a single response…

Liewec.2896:

looks like the necro criticism is getting the Skyhammer treatment, were they just spam merge and don’t give a single response…

It was merged by moderators, and honestly people were just creating more and more threads when it was unneeded. It’s a holiday weekend, be patient and keep the discussion going, maybe it will end up helping us.

Liewec.2896:

looks like the necro criticism is getting the Skyhammer treatment, were they just spam merge and don’t give a single response…

They offered no feedback on anything said in threads about the other professions, after their skill bars. If any of you thought they would make a special trip to the forums for the necromancer over all of the other professions, and feel let down by that, well then, that is your fault in my opinion.

Not to mention what Roe said above.

Yeah thats true. I’m glad this was merged though, so that when/if the devs do read it for feedback, it will be in one convenient yet cluttered place, and no thread is lost in the dust.

I’m fine with not having a response, I just hope they’d consider some of the feedback posted here, such as my giant rant on page 2

One can only hope Nearlight, one can only hope.

nearlight.3064:

Yeah thats true. I’m glad this was merged though, so that when/if the devs do read it for feedback, it will be in one convenient yet cluttered place, and no thread is lost in the dust.

I’m fine with not having a response, I just hope they’d consider some of the feedback posted here, such as my giant rant on page 2

There was a big reaction to mesmer scepter changes and they took action against the real issue which was PU. So that worked. I don’t really care if we get a response either, but if only these changes to through its sad.

I wish we didn’t only have a week to pray that they make improvements.

At this point I dont care if giving necro mobility is not what Anet wants, its what we need as a class and there are ways to do it so it doesnt make the class OP.