Guild Wars 2

To kill a healing signet warrior using a glass spec (berserker) you need to constantly stick to him otherwise every single second spent not doing it is a big portion of what you achieved negated through passive healing.

As a close ranged spec that means sticking up to his face. While doing so you take evry risks to eat a single attack from him which can instantly revert the situation and give him the upper hand.
When you’ve been dps’ing the guy since 10sec and he takes the upper hand because he landed ONE hit, people are right when they wonder why bunker dps is better on glass dps than glass dps is on them.
Especially considering how that one hit can be extremely easy to place (huge burning circle of death e.g)

Add to this zerk stance + double endure pain forcing you to do nothing but go away for the entire duration unless you like to throw your skills at nothing just for the beauty of it, forced to give the guy 10s of huge passive healing, it becomes ludicrous.

No it’s not impossible to beat a war, many of us do it on a regular basis, it’s just plain unfair, way too easily punitive, unsatisfying, and long. Well at least it’s not boring since you can’t allow yourself to do any single mistake.

That said warriors aren’t the only ones, some engies and necro specs are about as stupid. Warriors are just the worst offenders.

And yes that’s only one aspect of the general balance issue – but it’s a big one.

To kill a Healing Signet Warrior you need either Poison or more than one person supplying DPS. This is what makes Hambow Warriors so attractive in sPvP; you get a profession with a one-button AoE point-spanning fire field, constant high passive health regeneration, AoE stun ability, temporary condition immunity on demand, temporary direct damage immunity on demand, active CC immunity on demand, passive CC immunity triggered by initial application, Stability on demand and respectable damage output. Then you throw in a short-CD Condition Cleansing and Boon Application via Lyssa Runes and end up with the mess we have now.

I’m personally excited for the new sPvP game modes, as it’ll give other professions a chance to shine outside of the “stand on a point and outlast pressure” game we’ve had for the past year and a half. A lot of the Warrior abilities won’t change fundamentally in design since ArenaNet seems set on their implementation in their current form, so instead of a profession-based power creep we’ll have a greater variety of scenarios allowing strengths and weaknesses to match against each other.

Kibbles.9813:

To kill a Healing Signet Warrior you need either Poison or more than one person supplying DPS. This is what makes Hambow Warriors so attractive in sPvP; you get a profession with a one-button AoE point-spanning fire field, constant high passive health regeneration, AoE stun ability, temporary condition immunity on demand, temporary direct damage immunity on demand, active CC immunity on demand, passive CC immunity triggered by initial application, Stability on demand and respectable damage output. Then you throw in a short-CD Condition Cleansing and Boon Application via Lyssa Runes and end up with the mess we have now.

Very well said.

Kibbles.9813:

To kill a Healing Signet Warrior you need either Poison or more than one person supplying DPS. This is what makes Hambow Warriors so attractive in sPvP; you get a profession with a one-button AoE point-spanning fire field, constant high passive health regeneration, AoE stun ability, temporary condition immunity on demand, temporary direct damage immunity on demand, active CC immunity on demand, passive CC immunity triggered by initial application, Stability on demand and respectable damage output. Then you throw in a short-CD Condition Cleansing and Boon Application via Lyssa Runes and end up with the mess we have now.

I’m personally excited for the new sPvP game modes, as it’ll give other professions a chance to shine outside of the “stand on a point and outlast pressure” game we’ve had for the past year and a half. A lot of the Warrior abilities won’t change fundamentally in design since ArenaNet seems set on their implementation in their current form, so instead of a profession-based power creep we’ll have a greater variety of scenarios allowing strengths and weaknesses to match against each other.

Dont worry man, wait for them nerfs!!!! 8% less on signet will bring them back down, you will see!

Solori.6025:

Mjgander.1905:

Ninjapotpie.6973:

I don’t see anything wrong with Warriors… they are one of my favorite targets to kill. I beat 95 % of the warriors I face one on one and I play a Engi :]

And Engineers being incredibly strong at 1v1ing in WvW has nothing to do with that? Nope!

So here’s a question…

What class is a good match-up for the ele…like what can it beat with no issue?

When vsing a player that knows what hes doing? Nothing :p None the less, I feel like my d/d ele can stand a chance against any class in WvW when 1v1ing… I think Engineer is actually far more harder to kill than a warrior on my Ele when in 1v1. Those confusion stacks + runes of perplexity :| Lucky for me (Or perhaps unlucky since I enjoy a good fight) 90% of the community seems to stink in wvw so I don’t have much problems killing anything in the 1v1 scene …

It is pretty much 100% certain that nothing will change until the supposed major overhaul, and that when said overhaul happens no one here has any idea currently as to how the land will lie in terms of balance (including the devs themselves).

Complaining about or otherwise expecting changes before then seems somewhat pointless. Personally I don’t think warrior is really OP (i’m biased no doubt), BUT there is an issue with the amount of passive cheese and thus low skill base needed to do well as one. However all of that is more of a litmus test for just how bad/passive/cheese based the current meta is, hopefully the new update will alter said meta.

No doubt people will start qqing about staff eles instead.

Grimreaper.5370:

Solori.6025:

Mjgander.1905:

Ninjapotpie.6973:

I don’t see anything wrong with Warriors… they are one of my favorite targets to kill. I beat 95 % of the warriors I face one on one and I play a Engi :]

And Engineers being incredibly strong at 1v1ing in WvW has nothing to do with that? Nope!

So here’s a question…

What class is a good match-up for the ele…like what can it beat with no issue?

When vsing a player that knows what hes doing? Nothing :p None the less, I feel like my d/d ele can stand a chance against any class in WvW when 1v1ing… I think Engineer is actually far more harder to kill than a warrior on my Ele when in 1v1. Those confusion stacks + runes of perplexity :| Lucky for me (Or perhaps unlucky since I enjoy a good fight) 90% of the community seems to stink in wvw so I don’t have much problems killing anything in the 1v1 scene …

Thank you.
You are actually the first person who has honestly answered this question.

I feel that everyone who rant’s about warrior’s while playing an ele don’t look at the big picture with an ele.

So what if warrior’s get nerfed..

That ranger,mesmer,engi,necro,guardian, and thief are still going to kill you just as easy.
The warrior has issue’s ,yes, (Hammer isn’t one of them) but the elementalist is not in the best spot it could be in.

Join the warriors. We have easiness.

Zero Day.2594:

Join the warriors. We have easiness.

I actually made my warrior solely for this reason (well actually I’m almost done getting all profs to 80). After doing so, however, and realizing I could tick torment for 10k on someone with sword 4, have great mobility, be tanky at the same time, and just all around face roll people with ease, I shelved him (besides for speed dungeon runs). Overall it is too easy. I honestly get no pleasure killing someone on a warrior because I feel like I cheated. It took me less skill to kill them than it does for them to kill me. So I went back to my guard in wvw after that. Until warriors become fair I boycott using them against other players (No warrior wvw or pvp for me).

eleshazar.6902:

Zero Day.2594:

Join the warriors. We have easiness.

…
Until warriors become fair I boycott using them against other players (No warrior wvw or pvp for me).

If everyone did that… It will make warriors look underpowered because they’re played the least. Flip-side, if everyone is a warrior, it shows that warriors are more preferable then other class for certain reasons….

Fix warriors as in Snip Snip please.. ^^

I thought the buzz word was shave

“Warriors aren’t OP, they are just a really good class” Yeaaaah, Im going to let that idiotic statement and all that it stands for speak for itself

Silhouette.5631:

“Warriors aren’t OP, they are just a really good class” Yeaaaah, Im going to let that idiotic statement and all that it stands for speak for itself

I don’t think anyone who said anything along those lines was being very serious, or perhaps the people saying this and taking to heart just think Warrior got its love patch much sooner than every other struggling profession.

Lets just all take the time to be thankful for a moment that most warriors are… Not very good at playing and suiting up a warrior, properly.

I’m actually kinda surprised there isn’t more PU mesmer hate than hambow warrior hatred. PU mesmer’s scare me a lot more than any warrior could.

Grimreaper.5370:

Silhouette.5631:

“Warriors aren’t OP, they are just a really good class” Yeaaaah, Im going to let that idiotic statement and all that it stands for speak for itself

I don’t think anyone who said anything along those lines was being very serious, or perhaps the people saying this and taking to heart just think Warrior got its love patch much sooner than every other struggling profession.

Lets just all take the time to be thankful for a moment that most warriors are… Not very good at playing and suiting up a warrior, properly.

I’m actually kinda surprised there isn’t more PU mesmer hate than hambow warrior hatred. PU mesmer’s scare me a lot more than any warrior could.

True, PU is way more annoying. just the fact that people are too busy fighting clones and finding the real target they blame themself for losing the fight.

I like how the 400 damage you cite is from Fiery Whirl.

Because you know, that’s what your opening sentence implies and all that.
So before you stopped fighting, how much damage did you actually do with FGS?

Warriors need a nerf to their defense. As for your taking a lot of damage, that is pretty much what a warrior does. Your job should be to ensure they don’t get the chance.

The problem ANet has is that warriors had so little defense they melted due to conditions (there natural counter). In response, they gave warriors a lot of healing and cleansing on a class with a lot of armor, toughness and attack. That was too much. Warriors should be heavy offense and weak defense.

Right now they have the best of both Worlds and that is the problem versus the damage they did to you.

I think Warriors should have a simple defence. HP and Armour. That’s it. No cleansing procs, no elaborate damage-absorbing stances, no dodging, no invuls, no nothing.

So they’re weak on the defence, and what defence they have would be based on high base HP and toughness and probably a bonus to the scaling of both.

Bombsaway.7198:

Warriors need a nerf to their defense. As for your taking a lot of damage, that is pretty much what a warrior does. Your job should be to ensure they don’t get the chance.

The problem ANet has is that warriors had so little defense they melted due to conditions (there natural counter). In response, they gave warriors a lot of healing and cleansing on a class with a lot of armor, toughness and attack. That was too much. Warriors should be heavy offense and weak defense.

Right now they have the best of both Worlds and that is the problem versus the damage they did to you.

Please stop pretending you know what the classes are " supposed to be".
Warriors aren’t supposed to be weak defense – they’re supposed to have little group oriented skills and low support capability.

Harper.4173:

Please stop pretending you know what the classes are " supposed to be".
Warriors aren’t supposed to be weak defense – they’re supposed to have little group oriented skills and low support capability.

Please stop pretending you know what classes are “supposed to be”.

You’re guessing the same way the guy you quoted was. Unless that was sarcasm and I missed the point, in which case, apologies. :P

Carighan.6758:

Harper.4173:

Please stop pretending you know what the classes are " supposed to be".
Warriors aren’t supposed to be weak defense – they’re supposed to have little group oriented skills and low support capability.

Please stop pretending you know what classes are “supposed to be”.

You’re guessing the same way the guy you quoted was. Unless that was sarcasm and I missed the point, in which case, apologies. :P

Look up the healing signet discussion about warrior. The devs themselves said they want the warrior to feel " sturdy " – that doesn’t go in line with what he said about warrior.

The devs have pretty much said over and over that they like the warrior as it is now, and that minor tweaks and adjustments are going to be made but this is the class pretty much.

Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle – that to me seems to imply a good amount of survivability ( defense).

See : http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warrior

Harper.4173:

Carighan.6758:

Harper.4173:

Please stop pretending you know what the classes are " supposed to be".
Warriors aren’t supposed to be weak defense – they’re supposed to have little group oriented skills and low support capability.

Please stop pretending you know what classes are “supposed to be”.

You’re guessing the same way the guy you quoted was. Unless that was sarcasm and I missed the point, in which case, apologies. :P

Look up the healing signet discussion about warrior. The devs themselves said they want the warrior to feel " sturdy " – that doesn’t go in line with what he said about warrior.

The devs have pretty much said over and over that they like the warrior as it is now, and that minor tweaks and adjustments are going to be made but this is the class pretty much.

Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle – that to me seems to imply a good amount of survivability ( defense).

See : http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warrior

It also says rangers are masters of range, yet the warrior longbow beats the ranger’s longbow to kingdom come.

The warrior design also stated they were meant to be weak to conditions yet one of the most immune classes to them.

I think reasonable people can look at what a class was at launch, how it progressed and why, and see that warriors were (or should or both you) (you pick if you must) designed around being the offense but lower defense melee character of the guardian/warrior set. They clearly, originally, were intended to have lower healing and condition removal. But when that turned out to be too much of a handicap, changes were made. Hence, the intention was and should be to have the class return to less defense. ANET, in making warriors playable, went too far.

You don’t know that in WvW it’s all about building stats?
warrior can build up insane stats like this

so can every other classes. a necro can have pure 30k hp while stacking insane amount of condition damage and toughness.

and by hitting 400 damage with fgs i think you should stop using blue gears

and also pvp got ele nerf, ONLY FOR PVP, wvw ele is not nerfed(ofc there are a few universal changes), search before post please.

Bombsaway.7198:

I think reasonable people can look at what a class was at launch, how it progressed and why, and see that warriors were (or should or both you) (you pick if you must) designed around being the offense but lower defense melee character of the guardian/warrior set. They clearly, originally, were intended to have lower healing and condition removal. But when that turned out to be too much of a handicap, changes were made. Hence, the intention was and should be to have the class return to less defense. ANET, in making warriors playable, went too far.

Warriors were improved against conditions in an effort to shift the meta from tank condi spam to something else.
The meta has not really shifted – with people just complaining right now.

The problem is that in order to deal direct damage you have to have 3 stats : Power, precision and critical damage. This means you can deal most damage as zerker and as a consequence have little to no resistance.

However – to deal the most condition damage you just need one stat : condition damage – which means you can now stack up on vitality and toughness on top of that and there you go – the condi meta is born.

This has to be fixed somehow – maybe buffing the warrior’s condition mitigation wasn’t the answer – but it certainly was something – before these buffs the class was UNPLAYABLE and was the laughing stock of any PVP mode.

The real problem here is how conditions work – and how they’re so easily spammed.
Making warrior weak against conditions again fixes exactly nothing of the core problem.

Harper.4173:

Bombsaway.7198:

I think reasonable people can look at what a class was at launch, how it progressed and why, and see that warriors were (or should or both you) (you pick if you must) designed around being the offense but lower defense melee character of the guardian/warrior set. They clearly, originally, were intended to have lower healing and condition removal. But when that turned out to be too much of a handicap, changes were made. Hence, the intention was and should be to have the class return to less defense. ANET, in making warriors playable, went too far.

Warriors were improved against conditions in an effort to shift the meta from tank condi spam to something else.
The meta has not really shifted – with people just complaining right now.

The problem is that in order to deal direct damage you have to have 3 stats : Power, precision and critical damage. This means you can deal most damage as zerker and as a consequence have little to no resistance.

However – to deal the most condition damage you just need one stat : condition damage – which means you can now stack up on vitality and toughness on top of that and there you go – the condi meta is born.

This has to be fixed somehow – maybe buffing the warrior’s condition mitigation wasn’t the answer – but it certainly was something – before these buffs the class was UNPLAYABLE and was the laughing stock of any PVP mode.

The real problem here is how conditions work – and how they’re so easily spammed.
Making warrior weak against conditions again fixes exactly nothing of the core problem.

They didn’t need their condition removal and their passive healing buffed. The healing signet buff was just mind baffling right from the start.

Carighan.6758:

Harper.4173:

Please stop pretending you know what the classes are " supposed to be".
Warriors aren’t supposed to be weak defense – they’re supposed to have little group oriented skills and low support capability.

Please stop pretending you know what classes are “supposed to be”.

You’re guessing the same way the guy you quoted was. Unless that was sarcasm and I missed the point, in which case, apologies. :P

Well I can tell all of you what they are supposed to be. I admit, I do love when people claim what a profession is or is not supposed to be or be capable of, when they have no actual idea. These boards are plague with the disease that is posters pretending they have a clue, then sending the infection further by acting as if there completely made up, conjured, and purely conjectured statement were actually fact.

The warrior is quit literally supposed to be

Warrior

We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body. They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force. They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.

I bolded and underlined the sections in which they completely veered away from there own philosophies and descriptions.

Source:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/first#post999247

Speaking of mi-informations, this guy is a treasure trove of it

The problem is that in order to deal direct damage you have to have 3 stats : Power, precision and critical damage. This means you can deal most damage as zerker and as a consequence have little to no resistance.

Actually this is not true. The problem with conditions is that posters (clearly yourself included) make these comments without any actual facts.

Harper.4173:

However – to deal the most condition damage you just need one stat : condition damage – which means you can now stack up on vitality and toughness on top of that and there you go – the condi meta is born.

Umm no. Your simply regurgitating what you read from every other unknowledgeable poster on the boards, and you offer not a single fact to support it. Let me break this down for you, and there are damage comparisons, spread sheets, and video comparisons all over the place to prove my comments, meaning you have to intentionally turn a blind eye to the walls of fact just to make a post like you just did.

Zerker out damages is closest comparable conditions counter part Rampager
knights out damages is closest comparable conditions counter part rabid.
Soldiers out damages is closest comparable conditions counter part dire.

Harper.4173:

The real problem here is how conditions work – and how they’re so easily spammed.
Making warrior weak against conditions again fixes exactly nothing of the core problem.

Again, your completely unaware of the real problem. Because you base every thing you say on uninformed perception, and absolutely nothing on actual fact. If you disagree, I would love to see you post some damage comparison, or video comparison displaying direct damage builds being out damaged by their condition counter part, as I and many many others have posted on multiple threads in the past.

@Coglin.

Where exactly is the misinformation in the fact that in order to get as much raw damage out there you need 3 stats for a power build and just one stat for a condi build. This is something that is general knowledge.

Please read and inform yourself : http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

It takes a contribution of THREE attributes : power, precision and critical damage for a direct damage build to deal its maximum DPS output.

For a condition damage class the only attribute you actually need is condition damage.
Read the wiki – it’s all there.

Here’s another idea – if you’re so hot on spreadsheets and videos proving your points can you please post and provide them or are we just supposed to take you up on your word because you’re not spreading misinformation.

Here’s the deal – condition damage is a fire and forget weapon – while direct damage requires you to actually constantly apply said damage.

A soldier’s player will almost always lose against a dire player in any form of pvp because of said situation. Conditions can easily be applied and with no means of taking them off they’ll keep on ticking and killing you – ignoring any armor you have on whatsoever.

Or is it that you forgot to mention that condition damage IS NOT REDUCED BY ANY FORM OF ARMOR and thus harder to mitigate than direct damage?
it would be funny if condition damage output was identical to direct damage output BUT it also bypassed armor would it not?

Also I love how you’re inviting me to post stuff – while you – the one who’s asking for evidence are the one not providing it.

Also – regarding the warrior and what was posted there – I agree – that was their view on the class THEN – but as it turns out that’s no longer the case.
Condition spam was up so high the class became unplayable and something had to be done – so it was.

Harper.4173:

It takes a contribution of THREE attributes : power, precision and critical damage for a direct damage build to deal its maximum DPS output.

And? It takes condition damage, precision(needed to proc the multiple on crit condition procs), and condition duration. Those are *+3+*stats as well, needed to maximize condition damage.

Harper.4173:

For a condition damage class the only attribute you actually need is condition damage.
Read the wiki – it’s all there.

I have read it. The difference is, I understand it, you apparently do not. Doing damage and maximizing damage are different. Post all the wiki links you like. I have leveled all 8 professions in WvW and sat with friends on different servers, testing professions and their builds in full soldiers and full dire gear. You can like it or not that is your issue, but soldiers gear direct damage builds do just as much damage as dire gear condition builds. It is documented, and fairly well known to be true. But please, feel free to debate it, argue it, and hate it, all you like. You have yet to offer an actually fact.

Harper.4173:

Here’s another idea – if you’re so hot on spreadsheets and videos proving your points can you please post and provide them or are we just supposed to take you up on your word because you’re not spreading misinformation.

Absolutely. I would love to link those threads to you. In the spirit of self education, I ask that you provide damage comparison of equivalent gear on at least on profession or a video of it. It is much better to learn for yourself. I have posted several videos of damage out put comparisons of dire gear versus soldiers gear, so I already know which one will generally out damage the other. As well, clearly you haven’t actually tested anything yourself or taken any time to look up previously established test.

So, as soon as you post a video or damage comparison of any kind yourself, I will gladly direct you to some others.

Harper.4173:

Here’s the deal – condition damage is a fire and forget weapon – while direct damage requires you to actually constantly apply said damage.

Ahh, you truely have no idea how it works then do you. A direct damage hit does all the damage up front, condition attacks do the similar damage, only they do it over time. Here is a simple explaination from another that might aid your understanding.

Carighan.6758:

I think this is largely a cognitive issue.
Players see direct damage attacks taking 50% off their health in 3 hits. They react, they heal, they shield, whatever.

Players see a condition damage attacker apply conditions. Their health pool is – at that moment – ok. So they don’t do anything until their health drops to 50%. However unlike direct damage, the moment you need to react is once again when the damage is applied, not after it has given the enemy the momentum they want.

So basically, we as players don’t take conditions serious enough.
I did however like the idea of giving condition/regen markers to the health orb. Show as a shaded red the amount of health you’d be at if all conditions currently on you run their course, and show as another green shade the amount of health you’d gain if regen effects + currently casting healing skill finish.

That might help newcomers take conditions much more serious the moment they’re applied, instead of when it’s too late.

Harper.4173:

A soldier’s player will almost always lose against a dire player in any form of pvp because of said situation. Conditions can easily be applied and with no means of taking them off they’ll keep on ticking and killing you – ignoring any armor you have on whatsoever.

Maybe for you. I have no trouble with them. As I build with as many condition counters as I do direct damage counters.

Just let me know when, I would be glad to meet you on my direct damage engineer(one of the professions with more limited condition clearing) against what ever profession you have leveled and in dire gear. I will wear soldiers. We can record it and post it as evidence to our respective arguments. Sound fair?

Ninjapotpie.6973:

I don’t see anything wrong with Warriors… they are one of my favorite targets to kill. I beat 95 % of the warriors I face one on one and I play a Engi :]

Wow, an Engineer! The king of spvp and solo fights, killing someone solo!??!

Otaur.9268:

For clarification my crit damage is 92% and my crit chance is 50% Attack is 3600-3700. I should NOT be doing 400 damage with FGS to a regen warrior who is built all defensively and out healing all the damage he is taking without even using his heal skill. Give Warriors Signet of Restoration and give Elementalists healing signet for 1 month, see how fast your Warriors cry foul play.

Glass Elementalist only doing 402damage versus a Warrior who hits for a lot more damage with a hammer while fully out regenerating the damage? This needs to be fixed, and not in a few months, but like now… This has gone on for to long and it is quite pathetic that every time I see a Dev playing the game it is on a Warrior… There is a reason why Warrior is so overpowered, stop playing the Warrior and try an Elementalist for 1 hour and you will QUIT your own game. Go full bunker if you’d like, still will not help you live versus that regen. 8% Reduction is not going to be enough, you need to nerf the warrior down to Elementalist state, actually nerf ALL classes to Elementalist state. sPvP community got Elementalist nerfed, how about they get other classes nerfed now?

Un-do all the nerfs you whack-a-moled onto the Elementalist because people kittened and complained about how the Elementalist was tickling them but wouldn’t die.

My god that fight log. I almost want to save that as my desktop wallpaper. I’d have a literal crystal tear in my eye every time i looked at my right monitor. That log is a metaphor for rough days. Time to play some sombre music while i load up pvp.

nykcu.2936:

There are two sides to this, the one with people who play warriors and the other with people who play other classes.
Sadly the first side has more members.

lol…..this (and i leveled a warrior to 80). a pretty ridiculous class right now. boring play-style to boot.

Harper.4173:

It takes a contribution of THREE attributes : power, precision and critical damage for a direct damage build to deal its maximum DPS output.

And with just one of them, you already outdamage a condition build which has only one condition stat. Funny how that works, isn’kitten

As it was said above, per stat used, direct damage scales better than conditions.

Meaning Power <→ Condition Damage,
Power, Precision <→ Condition Damage, Precision,
Power, Precision, Crit Damage <→ Condition Damage, Precision, Condition Duration (but few would even maximize that on gear as it’s not truly possible)

Eles really should get the healing signet and warriors the heal on hits.

coglin.1867:

You can like it or not that is your issue, but soldiers gear direct damage builds do just as much damage as dire gear condition builds.

And that’s precisely the point.

Soldier’s gear produces damage that :

1) is affected by the target’s armor.
2)can be mitigated by positioning
3)can be nullified by dodging, blocking and evading.

Dire gear produces damage that is much easier to apply, doesn’t require you to stay on target 24/7 and is harder to mitigate both pre and post application.
The fact remains – doing condition damage is easier.

Also – regarding condition duration – that stat is not as crucial as say critical damage in a power build since you can get said duration with food ( in WvW ) and you can also trait specific traits for this.
Not having high condition duration will hurt your damage as a condi damage dealer less than not having critical damage on a power damage build.

Precision for on crit conditions aren’t really factored in here – since we also have a similar situation with power builds gaining might and whatnot on crit.

Regarding condition damage application and when it does damage – i agree with you – but the psychological aspect you were so quick to point out is exactly what makes it more effective. People are worse at countering it – making it more effective overall.

Regarding meeting up – how would we do that exactly? WvW? sPVP?

Harper.4173:

Soldier’s gear produces damage that :

1) is affected by the target’s armor.
2)can be mitigated by positioning
3)can be nullified by dodging, blocking and evading.

You need to develop a better understanding of the game bud. Condition damage can be negated by positioning just the same. dodges, blocks, and evades nullify condition damage exactly as they do direct damage. And direct damage cannot be ignored completely by cleansing, much less AoE and group cleansing.

Harper.4173:

Dire gear produces damage that is much easier to apply, doesn’t require you to stay on target 24/7 and is harder to mitigate both pre and post application.
The fact remains – doing condition damage is easier.

This doesn’t make the least bit of sense. Let me use the bomb kit for example, as it can be used as either direct damage or condition damage.
Bomb – 2100 damage instantly. One bomb = 2100 damage
Fire bomb-3s burn at 700 per burn tic. = 2100 damage.

In both cases, the attack must land. In both cases it is one attack. The only difference is that bomb is instant damage, fire bomb takes 3s to reach the same level of damage.

It is baffling that you keep swearing one is easier to land then the other.

Harper.4173:

Also – regarding condition duration – that stat is not as crucial as say critical damage in a power build since you can get said duration with food ( in WvW ) and you can also trait specific traits for this.
Not having high condition duration will hurt your damage as a condi damage dealer less than not having critical damage on a power damage build.

Prove it. Because informed players who have experimented this, have posted videos of damage comparisons proving you wrong. Your making a lot of claims with no facts or evidence, when many other provided evidence opposing your claims. condition duration is very literally 50% of our total condition damage. Not sure how 50% of total damage can even be confused for less important, but it is a bit of a testament to your lack of understanding here.

And the food is irrelevant on its own. You have to break thresholds of duration to even raise the damage. For example, engineer pistol auto attack has a 2s bleed. you have to hit 50% to increase it at all

Harper.4173:

Precision for on crit conditions aren’t really factored in here – since we also have a similar situation with power builds gaining might and whatnot on crit.

Umm, you do understand that might effects condition damage as well right……/Slaps fore head and sighs……..They scale equally.

Harper.4173:

Regarding condition damage application and when it does damage – i agree with you – but the psychological aspect you were so quick to point out is exactly what makes it more effective. People are worse at countering it – making it more effective overall.

Ahh, so I see your coming around to the facts that the damage is congruent and is only perceived as greater, as I have been stating to you all along.

Harper.4173:

Regarding meeting up – how would we do that exactly? WvW? sPVP?

WvW. probably after the season. Some guildies offered to donate to a transfer to a sever opposing yours then back again.

Regarding Condition Damage… just look at the state of sPvP.

Condition spamming is the meta even without condition duration food. Most people don’t even use condition duration runes.

Is a Power build using Cleric’s Amulet (Power, Healing, Toughness) scary in PvP? No.
Is a Condition build using Settler’s Amulet (Condition Damage, Healing, Toughness) scary in PvP? Yes.

Condition builds only need Precision to proc On-Crit effects. They’ll still deal decent damage without precision wherein the DPS output of Power builds are greatly hampered without Precision and Critical Damage.

I main Elementalist and Engineer but I usually play Engineer in team Queues and I can admit myself without any bias that it is still deadly even without proccing on-Crit effects like Burn and Bleed. The weapon skills will still deal Condition damage even if I don’t crit. You can say that using On-Crit effects is just an added bonus. You can’t say the same for Power Builds.

A few minutes ago, the zerg I was running with crashed into another (this is T1), and while the fight went on, I was going target to target, and I literally targeted 12 Warriors before I was able to target a non-warrior class.

Sorry, but something is off when you see one profession more than any other regularly.