Guild Wars 2

Hi Arenanet, just a quick question. When you guys do balancing to the game, you obviously get feedback from the forums – though this is just a small % of GW2 players.

Who tests your skills, and how is it processed? Obviously your staff do, but are there any 3rd parties involved? For example, is there a small player base that you choose from the game is test the skill changes on a private client?

I just feel like, there needs to more communication in terms of why the changes are made, how you decided to do so, and what drove the change?

And in regards to GW2 players trying out the skills, traits etc in a private client would be an awesome idea, but will also have its drawbacks.

That’s all for now.

I really wanted to reply, but everytimeI tried it turned into anet flame and how little they understand.

I would like to think that this already happens but like with all things only the cool kids can participate.

More than one year ago they used to balance stuff according to 1v1 with various classes and specs (Talking about paid tournament’s times) and sometimes (Just sometimes) asking for advice to top players (And i mean asking…not necessarily following those tips anyway..) now they just…well…i don’t know…but for sure they’re not giving kitten to players anymore

tl;dr

The do not balance this game.

/thread

grouch mentioned that when the players raged about the mesmer scepter changes he played mesmer for the whole day to figure some changes out. now the question is if that is really enough testing.

Chilli.2976:

And in regards to GW2 players trying out the skills, traits etc in a private client would be an awesome idea, but will also have its drawbacks.

This would be the worst idea in my opinion. At this point, all of the feedback from players would generally just be biased towards their personal favorite or main profession.

Public Test Server/Realm… Every major MMORPG has had one to test changes on a large scale. Plenty of players would make characters on the PTR to test incoming changes, they would expect frequent changes as it is a test server, and the dev’s could get a ton of feedback based on the changes. Not to mention the numbers and data they can get from just observing the changes on their side.

I think they should interact more with the community on balancing, specially for high lvl sPvP. The skillcap of the developers are way lower than the top tier players. So there is no way they can balance it for top tier players…

But from arenanet i think it would take 2much time to: setup test servers-> get the correct people to test -> get all info from testers-> evaluate -> balance the game

that’s probably why they don’t do it.

yet i would love to see them do it !

Otaur.9268:

Public Test Server/Realm… Every major MMORPG has had one to test changes on a large scale. Plenty of players would make characters on the PTR to test incoming changes, they would expect frequent changes as it is a test server, and the dev’s could get a ton of feedback based on the changes. Not to mention the numbers and data they can get from just observing the changes on their side.

Most PTR’s are just cluster…f’s catering to a playerbase to play new goodies before they’re fixed, balanced, and finalized.

In most cases, not only is it redundant content, and a preview which ruins the enormity/magnitude of a patch, but it also is rarely taken into consideration.

There are many more times that a PTR has revealed problems that don’t get addressed when the patch goes live.

Additionally, to state that Arenanet has no test server is a lie, as they have multiple alpha servers in their HQ. I’d go so far as to say some of the engineers have custom alpha servers to test their specific content instead of pushing onto the main branch. Making these public does not particularly help Arenanet in any given form or way, namely because it reveals things that they might not want to show (undocumented changes, small tweaks that may never make it live, etc) in addition to the fact that Arenanet, (as long as they didn’t lie about this), uses cloud-based services to get “bots” to effectively “PTR” their content. They can moniter and gather data just as effectively, without having all the whine and grime that players will throw at them.

Jekkt.6045:

grouch mentioned that when the players raged about the mesmer scepter changes he played mesmer for the whole day to figure some changes out. now the question is if that is really enough testing.

yeah and thing is; what did he test against?

Did he test against golems? or did he test against say another dev playing Thief/Ranger/Elementalist – IE classes that CANNOT stand still if they want to have a chance to win a fight.

Jekkt.6045:

grouch mentioned that when the players raged about the mesmer scepter changes he played mesmer for the whole day to figure some changes out. now the question is if that is really enough testing.

Really? Oh gosh. Wished he played a whole day to test the Ride the Lightning class-breaking nerf.

Prysin.8542:

Jekkt.6045:

grouch mentioned that when the players raged about the mesmer scepter changes he played mesmer for the whole day to figure some changes out. now the question is if that is really enough testing.

yeah and thing is; what did he test against?

Did he test against golems? or did he test against say another dev playing Thief/Ranger/Elementalist – IE classes that CANNOT stand still if they want to have a chance to win a fight.

anet is nerfing clone deaths traits.

The nerf might balance out the scepter and staff buff. Wait and see I guess.

The thing is, using players as testers is a messy effort. There’s a whole scale of different player skill levels and not all of them have the same problems.

For example, there are some things which are broken in top tier competitive play. Well, ANet obviously cannot use their internal testers to balance for that, since they’re not on that level of play. On the other hand, using actual teams presents at least two issues:

1. If they choose specific teams, then ANet is basically putting up a big “you’re not good enough” sign on the door. And that’s not going to go over well for the ones that don’t make it.
2. If they choose to use individual team members instead (so no whole teams), this would mean all of those teams would have to put their practice rounds on hold. This would present some serious issues with getting ready for big tournaments for the teams.

Even discounting that, there are things which are not broken on top tier play, but are considered issues in the lower tiers of skill. Are you supposed to just ignore those? And how would you prioritize between the two? Clearly the playerbase that is average or below in terms of skill is far, far larger than the top tier, but the top tier is far, far more passionate about the game.

Heck, just take a look at the Profession Balance forum and you’ll see that the vocal portion of the playerbase is pretty kittened up in terms of balance ideas. A huge majority of the suggestions deal with nerfing or buffing a profession without any regard as to why those changed would be good. What scenario would they alter? Heck, most of the suggestions are based on 1v1 encounters at points in PvP or while roaming in WvW, which definitely do not represent a large portion of the PvP combat in the game.

What they could do is set up a server for testing, it has test events, similar to beta events. You have to sign up, random people are given access. In test mode, you report on a specific skill or function using a modded version of the ingame bug report tool

dancingmonkey.4902:

Chilli.2976:

And in regards to GW2 players trying out the skills, traits etc in a private client would be an awesome idea, but will also have its drawbacks.

This would be the worst idea in my opinion. At this point, all of the feedback from players would generally just be biased towards their personal favorite or main profession.

I actually want the profession I play nerfed in some aspects, I like fair fights!… Not everyone is completely biased.

Prysin.8542:

What they could do is set up a server for testing, it has test events, similar to beta events. You have to sign up, random people are given access. In test mode, you report on a specific skill or function using a modded version of the ingame bug report tool

I don’t think heavy balancing is or will ever be apart of Arenanet demands… sadly. IMO Anet should open up QA tester jobs which focus on balance. Hell… If they didn’t want to pay people to balance the game I’m sure they could just find “team leads” to do it for free.This is what DAoC did.

The top engie that does tounaments tests stuff.. if it’s good for engie.. its good.. if its bad for engie.. its bad and will be nerfed..
FLAMETROWER buff while turrets are the upper cheese of cheese.

And if one of the super skilled tounament people screams about the one skill getting a bug, while whole professions are wasting away, it shall be fixed immediately!

I challenge any of the balance team to play a necro for the next 2 months after the patch. strickly necro.. see how your adventures fare.

Grimreaper.5370:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Chilli.2976:

And in regards to GW2 players trying out the skills, traits etc in a private client would be an awesome idea, but will also have its drawbacks.

This would be the worst idea in my opinion. At this point, all of the feedback from players would generally just be biased towards their personal favorite or main profession.

I actually want the profession I play nerfed in some aspects, I like fair fights!… Not everyone is completely biased.

A. I have seen a great many of your post, and you clearly are biased and suggest a great many things that are not even reasonably considered balanced or fair.

B. Our difference of opinion alone in itself is testament to how player feedback is often contradictory.

C. I do not care what you claim, I feel players will still give feedback based on their own interest, generally in favor of their main or favorite profession.

D. A great many who test and press their feedback on experiences on a testing server will very often be an extremely vocal minority, who claim they want fair fights and balance, but will inevitably be the unreasonable squeaky wheel. Going out of their way to be the loudest on the feed back discussion.

It would be nice if anet would have at least one dev on each profession. Those devs can then coordinate with the veteran players of that community and the other profession devs.

Its definitely a good idea because that would allow some form of communication between the players who’ve played a class to death and have a good idea of what the profession needs to make mostly everyone happy and the developers that can coordinate between the other professions to provide changes that won’t affect other professions in the process.

It is a more accurate form of “greasing the squeeky wheel” and more effective than just spraying it with lubricant until it stops making noise.

+1 agreed

alot of people have said this …..
but it would be really nice if they listened to the community on this one ….

i would like to know i have a dev looking out for the best of my class & everyones class

years of Hambow meta, multiple hambows in every top rated match,
thousands of threads calling Hambow out on being OP,
greatsword gets nerfed.

i wouldn’t put too much stock in anet listening, they may hear, but they don’t listen.

Liewec.2896:

years of Hambow meta, multiple hambows in every top rated match,
thousands of threads calling Hambow out on being OP,
greatsword gets nerfed.

i wouldn’t put too much stock in anet listening, they may hear, but they don’t listen.

Actually, your precisely why they shouldn’t listen. For one, hambow wasn’t where it is in the meta before the greatsword nerf. The bow took 2 buffs and the implementation of cleansing ire before it was brought into the meta.

They listen, the problem is that players who are genuinely uninformed make accusations such as this one, based off of inaccurate information, and do as you did, and make rude and insulting post and literally contribute nothing to the topics discussion.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

…snip I challenge any of the balance team to play a necro for the next 2 months after the patch. strickly necro.. see how your adventures fare.

Never gonna happen. All the detergent in the world wouldn’t wash out the foot prints on their armor when seeing a nearby zerg coming at em. Until the necro become viable in every game mode I have relegated mine to zerg vs zerg fights only.

Got sick of waiting for a change so I just have a mes (now) for roaming and a warrior for anything PvE related.