Guild Wars 2

I’m a mesmer and i hate conditions. not more to say in PvP i think they are in a good place maybe a bit to stong but not much. PvE Condis are just bad atm.

seems a lot of ppl forget that glas canon usually need to setup the “burst”. these setups are easy to avoid. they also forget that a glas canon takes high dmg cause missing toughness. so condition spams autoattacks and does nearly unavoidable dmg, cause a lot of them is randomprog on traits, esp on crit, the same time the conditionuser normaly sits “back” cause he has a ranged weapon and high toughness.

Conncept.7638:

I really don’t think its a class balance issue at all, it’s a system issue. The condition and boon systems are both invisible and lack any play to counterplay beyond slotted hard counters.

But I doubt they’ll fix this beyond making adjustments to individual classes, so it still is a class issue.

Also, to everybody saying stuff about PvE condis.. That’s ruined by the fact that only one person can stack conditions effectively. But multiple people can burst effectively. So take that up with game design, it’s ruining PvP and WvW right now though.

I don’t think conditions are to out of wack just that conditions clears etc need to be buffed a bit for all classes. Conditions exist to counter bunkers so if you make conditions to trivial in small scale then bunkers rule the day. In large scales bunkers already rule the day and conditions are nonexistent.

most condi remover skills (well atleast utility skills) are mostly “remove condition and ghave X effect” and are mostly taken to cleanse.

All the “Stun breaker” skills have significant effects that synergize with builds and are usually taken for their effects not purely because they are “stun breaker with X effect” but will be used as a stun breaker in a pinch.

Maybe we should give an option to make skills that are native stun breakers clear 2-3 conditions on activation?

Clearly this would not be the case for skills like “Shadow Step” having the condition effect after is enough. Plus a location changing skill like “Blink” would always remain a stun breaker, as well as “Shake it off” for example shouldn’t get an alternate option.

But giving the option to other skills may even open up more build diversity later.

Conncept.7638:

I really don’t think its a class balance issue at all, it’s a system issue. The condition and boon systems are both invisible and lack any play to counterplay beyond slotted hard counters.

conditions have counters beside thier hard counters avaidable that aren’t slotted on any class:

-runes of hoelbrak
-runes of melandru
-sigil of purity
-sigil of generosity
-runes of the sunless
-…

I think those who complains are those who runs without vitality in their build… and their traits are more focus on offence than defence

Warrior is useless when it comes to dealing with condi. If your not built as a full tank with soldiers runes the moment necros use there signet it’s game over your crippled in every form possible and they just kite with there staff/scepter till your dead. That’s not to mention there second HP bar.

Nerf Necros Signet
Remover the HP factor from the necros shroud form make it a time thing and if it’s really needed boost there base HP

Now Necros are Ballanced

this thread is something like you are running a full VIT build, without toughness, and got killed by a zerk build, and request to nerf the DPS… =\

Tim.6450:

Conncept.7638:

I really don’t think its a class balance issue at all, it’s a system issue. The condition and boon systems are both invisible and lack any play to counterplay beyond slotted hard counters.

conditions have counters beside thier hard counters avaidable that aren’t slotted on any class:

-runes of hoelbrak
-runes of melandru
-sigil of purity
-sigil of generosity
-runes of the sunless
-…

Antitoxin/Lyssa runes…

XJamo.1930:

Warrior is useless when it comes to dealing with condi. If your not built as a full tank with soldiers runes the moment necros use there signet it’s game over your crippled in every form possible and they just kite with there staff/scepter till your dead. That’s not to mention there second HP bar.

Nerf Necros Signet
Remover the HP factor from the necros shroud form make it a time thing and if it’s really needed boost there base HP

Now Necros are Ballanced

If a cripple is killing you on a war, I don’t know what to tell you… wars can get 58/98% reduction vs cripple/chill/immobilize… even just 10 points will net you dogged march for -33% + regen…

XJamo.1930:

Warrior is useless when it comes to dealing with condi. If your not built as a full tank with soldiers runes the moment necros use there signet it’s game over your crippled in every form possible and they just kite with there staff/scepter till your dead. That’s not to mention there second HP bar.

Nerf Necros Signet
Remover the HP factor from the necros shroud form make it a time thing and if it’s really needed boost there base HP

Now Necros are Ballanced

what about cleansing ire? mending? signet of stamina? signet of rage + rune of lyssa? berserker stance? How can you say that warriors can’t deal with conditions?

And about cripple, you have dogged march, restorative strength and charge on top of all the previous mentioned stuff.

Warriors have no issues with conditions…

Honestly the only classes that can make a legit complaint about conditions are Mesmer, and Engi/Ranger(I am not too familiar with these classes, so maybe I am wrong).

Even so, there are plenty of group wide condition cleanses in the game, use them.

A-Net should focus on buffing conditions in PvE to be more viable. Removing the caps on bosses and removing the 100% duration cap would be a good place to start.

Eng is in a weird place when it comes to conds. Deep alch heavy elixir builds have an abundance including immunity at 25% hp (which is horrid game design, but I digress). Anything else and you’re left with just healing turret and EG… like builds that use more than 1 kit…

Balancing for conditions happened to three classes.. Thief, engi and necro. (Poison, poison and dumb fire.)

Were the changes big enough and will they be felt?

Mbelch.9028:

Balancing for conditions happened to three classes.. Thief, engi and necro. (Poison, poison and dumb fire.)

Were the changes big enough and will they be felt?

Those are the only revealed changes. We don’t know how much else could happen. And you forgot to mention Pin Down.

Oh thanks. Yes pin down as well. Appreciate the comment, Proven. I hope there’s additional changes. Be it curbing condi skills or buffing cleanses.

Tim.6450:

Conncept.7638:

I really don’t think its a class balance issue at all, it’s a system issue. The condition and boon systems are both invisible and lack any play to counterplay beyond slotted hard counters.

conditions have counters beside thier hard counters avaidable that aren’t slotted on any class:

-runes of hoelbrak
-runes of melandru
-sigil of purity
-sigil of generosity
-runes of the sunless
-…

Those are hard counter slotted on every class, that isn’t better that’s worse! Not only do people have less choice on what abilities they can slot in a condition meta they have less choice on what stats they can pick because they have to consider anti-condition measures over stats.

All classes besides maybe ele and warrior should have the same gripes about condition. Ele has insane condi clear with some water traits, and warriors are oven running ridiculous damage builds while still having melandru runes, -40% food, cleansing ire, shouts with condition removal, etc etc.

As a necro:
Whenever I am about to have an encounter with someone, I see what food they’re using. If it’s +40% condi and tuning crystal, I use plague signet and wait for them to accrue high stacks of whatever on me, then transfer and burst them down. My heal is on a 25 second c/d and plague signet is on a 60 second cd, so there is not much else I can do. There is spiteful removal, which is fine, if there are mobs around. 3 conditions removed is nice.

Either way, condition builds are generally a nightmare because of dire gear and the fact that toughness is ignored. I guess it’s maybe “balanced” because traits that give damage boosts if a target has conditions or boons on them (i.e. target the weak) don’t apply to condition damage, only physical.

Spicyhash.7605:

I guess it’s maybe “balanced” because traits that give damage boosts if a target has conditions or boons on them (i.e. target the weak) don’t apply to condition damage, only physical.

I’m pretty sure that is already so.

Conncept.7638:

Tim.6450:

Conncept.7638:

I really don’t think its a class balance issue at all, it’s a system issue. The condition and boon systems are both invisible and lack any play to counterplay beyond slotted hard counters.

conditions have counters beside thier hard counters avaidable that aren’t slotted on any class:

-runes of hoelbrak
-runes of melandru
-sigil of purity
-sigil of generosity
-runes of the sunless
-…

Those are hard counter slotted on every class, that isn’t better that’s worse! Not only do people have less choice on what abilities they can slot in a condition meta they have less choice on what stats they can pick because they have to consider anti-condition measures over stats.

So you want to be able to deal with conditions without sacrificing nothing no skill slots, no stats ? Sorry but this game won’t work that way if you want to counter something you will have to sacrifice for something else.

Tim.6450:

Spicyhash.7605:

I guess it’s maybe “balanced” because traits that give damage boosts if a target has conditions or boons on them (i.e. target the weak) don’t apply to condition damage, only physical.

I’m pretty sure that is already so.

Conncept.7638:

Tim.6450:

Conncept.7638:

I really don’t think its a class balance issue at all, it’s a system issue. The condition and boon systems are both invisible and lack any play to counterplay beyond slotted hard counters.

conditions have counters beside thier hard counters avaidable that aren’t slotted on any class:

-runes of hoelbrak
-runes of melandru
-sigil of purity
-sigil of generosity
-runes of the sunless
-…

Those are hard counter slotted on every class, that isn’t better that’s worse! Not only do people have less choice on what abilities they can slot in a condition meta they have less choice on what stats they can pick because they have to consider anti-condition measures over stats.

So you want to be able to deal with conditions without sacrificing nothing no skill slots, no stats ? Sorry but this game won’t work that way if you want to counter something you will have to sacrifice for something else.

When it comes to hard counters yeah I do. The system of hard counters does nothing but turn any game mode where conditions are viable in to a poorly made CCG, you have sufficient ‘counterspells’ in your deck or you don’t, you’ve lost or won the fight before you started it. That isn’t fun; it destroys build diversity, lowers action and reactionary play, and most of all it’s nigh impossible to balance.

And there are better alternatives.

The easiest thing to do would just be make removal more incidental, or in short make weaker condition removal on a larger group of skills and traits rather than the stronger ones we have now on so few skills and traits. But that isn’t the only option, they could simplify condition ticking and give it a stat counter, make a stack vs stack system with either conditions or boons. And there are likely more answers beyond that. Slotted hard counters are not the only option, and in my opinion rarely if ever the best.