Guild Wars 2

I just wanted to point out just how poorly designed Black Powder specifically and Blind spam in general is balanced in this game.

Blind essentially negates a hit that would otherwise be a successful attack. It wastes the cooldown and is in all cases a very powerful mitigation mechanic. It is something that could be applies every 10-20 seconds in a balanced environment, but it can’t be something that is spammed non stop.

It’s especially problematic when combined with Thieves because you need a successful attack in order to clear the blind effect. And hitting a stealthed target is a matter of luck. Classes that rely almost exclusively on physical melee damage have virtually NO WAY of ever hitting a semi-competent Thief who uses Black Powder and Shadow Shot in a sensible manner. Nada.

Berserker Stance gives you 8 seconds of condition immunity and thus a break from the constant blind spa. But those 8 seconds are easy enough to kite/stealth for any Thief, and then it’s back to immunity.

I have both a Thief and a Warrior and I’ve been on both ends of this battle a number of times. Frankly I can’t think of many other abilities that are such a hard-counter to an entire class. If I’m smart enough to avoid Berserker Stance I am virtually immune to any Warrior melee build. It’s really quite a joke.

Blind was conceived….and should be, a situational condition. It should not be something that can be spammed and reapplied every few seconds, especially not by a class that gives you no opportunity to cleanse it.

Dee Jay.2460:

I just wanted to point out just how poorly designed Black Powder specifically and Blind spam in general is balanced in this game.

Blind essentially negates a hit that would otherwise be a successful attack. It wastes the cooldown and is in all cases a very powerful mitigation mechanic. It is something that could be applies every 10-20 seconds in a balanced environment, but it can’t be something that is spammed non stop.

It’s especially problematic when combined with Thieves because you need a successful attack in order to clear the blind effect. And hitting a stealthed target is a matter of luck. Classes that rely almost exclusively on physical melee damage have virtually NO WAY of ever hitting a semi-competent Thief who uses Black Powder and Shadow Shot in a sensible manner. Nada.

Berserker Stance gives you 8 seconds of condition immunity and thus a break from the constant blind spa. But those 8 seconds are easy enough to kite/stealth for any Thief, and then it’s back to immunity.

I have both a Thief and a Warrior and I’ve been on both ends of this battle a number of times. Frankly I can’t think of many other abilities that are such a hard-counter to an entire class. If I’m smart enough to avoid Berserker Stance I am virtually immune to any Warrior melee build. It’s really quite a joke.

Blind was conceived….and should be, a situational condition. It should not be something that can be spammed and reapplied every few seconds, especially not by a class that gives you no opportunity to cleanse it.

Cleansing Ire..

Longbow

berserker stance.

You have too many ways to deal with blind, as a warrior
If a thief were to try this with me I would use zerk stance and hit him while being immune..
It is really amazing how much damage a warrior can dish out in 8 seconds.

Even when that stance is up, you can remove blind ( and conditions for that matter) faster than any other class in game right now because of 1 trait.

But for the sake of pistol off hand.
because I already dislike thieves.
Why I wouldnt mind blinding powder being a dark field that pulsed every 3 seconds

instant uselessness and balance..

what do you think guys?

Trust me, if the Thief is semi-competent he will watch for Berserker Stance and just stealth/kite it for a few seconds. It’s not that hard even if it lacks a proper animation.

100 Blades gets a few hits through Black Powder and you can outrange the field if you’re quick enough. But you’re still being blinded by the initial Black Powder shot and Shadow Shot which can also be spammed.

Cleansing Ire also has a cooldown and you have to actually hit something for it to cleanse. Ranged weapons work to an extent, yes, but aren’t really great overall weapon choices for most Warriors (except Hambow). And I can hardly switch weapons every time before encountering a Thief.

My point really just is that Blind isn’t a condition that should be applied so abundantly as a Thief can, especially not on a stealth class because you can’t actually hit a target to clear the Blind.

Yessss this has been such an amazingly glaring problem for double melee Warrior ever since they changed blinds to require a hit to connect before being cleansed. This is but one of the reasons why longbow is nigh-compulsory the way things are now.

The saddest part is the devs are kind of aware blind is a massive problem for Warrior but all they’ve come up with is Brawler’s Recovery so far, which is terrible.

Anyway, I think a good hotfix short of reverting Blinds would be to make Black Powder stop being a Projectile Finisher. That way a thief would need to position his black powder really well to properly apply blind instead of how it is now where blinds just happen as part of their burst combo.

Condition Builds doesn’t have problem with blind.

If that’s so annoying for you, you may use one of those or change to a class that excel at those.

Stop making excuses about one specific Condition that for some reason affect your build more than affect others. If you hate blind, build yourself to counter it.

If you as a warrior are trying to hammer stunlock another warrior who has good access to stability/blocking and their stability/invuln/block mitigates the same amount of CC/damage as being blinded by a thief is there really any difference?

There are different tools for different jobs and certainly if you are straight up melee you are going to have issues vs blinds. I’ll use the bomb kit engi as an example again. Most of them can kite very well and as a thief if you try and engage them the same way as any other class you’ll spend more time falling on your face than you will actually damaging them as they lol and roll their face on their keyboard. You either have to wait for an opening and pull of a CND Basilisk steal BS combo perfectly or switch to a ranged weapon.

Warriors can equip ranged weapons, and it’s on you if you don’t run one. I don’t run shortbow on my thief and there are times I wish I had but you have to make that choice before you know you need one. You win some you lose some. Just the way it is.

Also, you can stand outside a black powder field and still reach someone standing in it without getting blinded. I have interrupted or downed thieves mid leap before by doing so. One of the most beautiful things to witness is getting a basilisk backstab off right when they hit the leap and watch their stone body fly through the air and fall like a rock without stealth lol.

I feel you technically make a valid point that blinds are very powerful against melee, but CC is also very powerful against thieves. I also believe it is unreasonable to expect every build of every class to have equal counters to each-other. Too many people feel that this should be the case in my opinion. There would be no purpose to different classes other than animation differences. Part of the beauty of this game is that you can create builds that really excel at one or more particular areas. This also means that another build can possibly excel at countering yours. That’s why this game has so many options for class skills/weapons/builds.

I never understood the point of BP being a one shot field and finisher. Take away the blind on shot and keep the field as is. This would make it to were BP would need to be more tactically placed to get the full effect.

Lets face it, D/P already has Shadow Shot which blinds on shot and shadowsteps to target.

This coming from a Thief main since release. Alot of thieves may not agree but I believe it will bring a better balance to that weapon set which seems to be where most of the complaining comes from.

Black Powder is so OP lol You hit all attack when you use brain.

Evilek.5690:

Blid Powder is so OP lol You hit all attack when you use brain.

L2R, it’s not about the combo-field as much as it’s about the Initial Blinding Shot and Shadow Shot

And I really just don’t like hard-counters.

Having a build that is better than yours if fine and to be expected. But having common builds that you can’t even hit, that’s pretty dumb.

And frankly, I know how OP Blind spam is on a Thief because I exploit it every day. I mean that skill alone is what makes Thieves viable for high-level fractals. Not sure if complete melee immunity was ever the desired effect though. I doubt it.

Dee Jay.2460:

Evilek.5690:

Blid Powder is so OP lol You hit all attack when you use brain.

L2R, it’s not about the combo-field as much as it’s about the Initial Blinding Shot and Shadow Shot

S/P has Shadow shot ? All Thief use d/p REALLY ? Shadow shot cost only 4 initiative-> teleport on target -> make 4.5k dmg and blind target. Black Powder cost 6 initiative and only blind target. You are warrior with 18.5k base HP, with OP HP regen and tons of cleanse i dont understand what you want

Black Powder puslse every one sec, all warrior AA has 0,5 sec cast time and 100b make two hit every one sec. Black Powder “block” max 50% your attack when you stay in Black Powder -> only L2P issues

Black Powder vs skilled Warrior is waste initiative

It IS true that you can facetank anything in PvE with black powder that is lower than a champ, and I agree with you that it is pretty dumb, but I don’t think I have ever seen anyone in WvW literally stand in my black powder field. It just doesn’t work the same. I’ve had people land in it yes, but stand in it? No.

I never have blind completely mitigate a warrior either so either you’re way better at utilizing it or I suck at blind spamming lol.

If I could actually drop black powder, stand in it, stabstabstab, drop another, stabstabstab, etc. on someone in WvW then I would probably totally agree with you. Anyone that stands in a blind field for that long doesn’t need to have blind nerfed, they need to go play farmville instead lol.

Evilek.5690:

Black Powder is so OP lol You hit all attack when you use brain.

Just a note from someone who deleted his Norm Thief and make a human.

You weapon range =/= attack radius.

But it is true that most classes can hit a thief inside blackpowder.

It’s ridiculous that warriors actually have some sort of weakness. They already have the highest armor, highest HP, highest mobility, ridiculous HP regen, near immunity to all conditions, multiple access to stability, immunities, blocks, and still hit like a truck. God forbid that if you actually manage to survive being chain stunned into next year, you might put out a blind.

Shinjo.6092:

It’s ridiculous that warriors actually have some sort of weakness. They already have the highest armor, highest HP, highest mobility, ridiculous HP regen, near immunity to all conditions, multiple access to stability, immunities, blocks, and still hit like a truck. God forbid that if you actually manage to survive being chain stunned into next year, you might put out a blind.

oh pls, warrior is not even good in 1v1s or spvp compared to pretty much every other class in this game.

The issue here is thieves are just ridiculous in general, too much cheese Its also problem with how abundant conditions are in this game.

Shinjo.6092:

It’s ridiculous that warriors actually have some sort of weakness. They already have the highest armor, highest HP, highest mobility, ridiculous HP regen, near immunity to all conditions, multiple access to stability, immunities, blocks, and still hit like a truck. God forbid that if you actually manage to survive being chain stunned into next year, you might put out a blind.

Can you link this build? Sounds pretty awesome.

Dee Jay.2460:

It’s especially problematic when combined with Thieves because you need a successful attack in order to clear the blind effect. And hitting a stealthed target is a matter of luck. Classes that rely almost exclusively on physical melee damage have virtually NO WAY of ever hitting a semi-competent Thief who uses Black Powder and Shadow Shot in a sensible manner. Nada.

This is only problematic in a 1v1, Warrior vs Thief, type of situation and not a problem in general. This is too specific that’s very unlikely to be address.

As we all know, the game is not balanced in a 1v1 fight, therefore, in a more conventional situation, if the Thief blinds you and they hide in stealth, there’s always the enemy Elementalist to target or an friendly Elementalist to clease/heal for you. You get what I mean, right?

Regardless, if the Thief blinds you as a Warrior and they hide in stealth…why are you sticking around? You can bail too and forces the Thief to come out from hiding.

In fact, blindness is very forgiving in this game compare to GW1 blindness where you are blinded for the duration regardless of what you do.

My problem with blind-focused Thieves is less the field itself and more the unblockable binds that get applied. Say I’m a Warrior with a shield. I see the BP go down and block the blind shot. They then leap and a blind gets applied through my block. If that blind wasn’t thee I could have positioned myself in such a way as to hit the Thief with something like an Eviscerate or Skull Crack(it’s hard but I’ve done it with Zerker Stance on) but with that last blind I don’t have enough time to clear it and then use the skill. If I evade I don’t have enough time and if I don’t I’ll miss. There’s no room for countering it outside of Zerker Stance being up and I generally save that for the end of the fight because otherwise that smoke bomb they get at the end can save them.

Like almost all Thief builds the problem is not the focus of the build itself but rather the FREQUENCY of the main mechanic of the build. D/P is basically just using BP + Backstab. While almost every class has a main combo they don’t generally get to use the whole combo multiple times in the span of a minute. Even warrior’s combos generally rely on at least one 20-40 second CD skill or utility. You can do smaller versions of the combo in between but you’ll only hit that big combo every now and then.

BurrTheKing.8571:

My problem with blind-focused Thieves is less the field itself and more the unblockable binds that get applied. Say I’m a Warrior with a shield. I see the BP go down and block the blind shot. They then leap and a blind gets applied through my block. If that blind wasn’t thee I could have positioned myself in such a way as to hit the Thief with something like an Eviscerate or Skull Crack(it’s hard but I’ve done it with Zerker Stance on) but with that last blind I don’t have enough time to clear it and then use the skill. If I evade I don’t have enough time and if I don’t I’ll miss. There’s no room for countering it outside of Zerker Stance being up and I generally save that for the end of the fight because otherwise that smoke bomb they get at the end can save them.

Like almost all Thief builds the problem is not the focus of the build itself but rather the FREQUENCY of the main mechanic of the build. D/P is basically just using BP + Backstab. While almost every class has a main combo they don’t generally get to use the whole combo multiple times in the span of a minute. Even warrior’s combos generally rely on at least one 20-40 second CD skill or utility. You can do smaller versions of the combo in between but you’ll only hit that big combo every now and then.

Warrior make high DMG “combo” every 6 sec lol Eviscerate for 8k+ and kill shot for 10k+ in sPvP is not funny.

Evilek.5690:

Warrior make high DMG “combo” every 6 sec lol Eviscerate for 8k+ and kill shot for 10k+ in sPvP is not funny.

You don’t find it funny? Cause I find it funny…that Warriors are complaining about one of the few ways that other classes actually have to defend against a warrior…and it’s something that can be removed by an auto-attack. How about we make auto-attacks break stuns as well?

BurrTheKing.8571:

My problem with blind-focused Thieves is less the field itself and more the unblockable binds that get applied. Say I’m a Warrior with a shield. I see the BP go down and block the blind shot. They then leap and a blind gets applied through my block. If that blind wasn’t thee I could have positioned myself in such a way as to hit the Thief with something like an Eviscerate or Skull Crack(it’s hard but I’ve done it with Zerker Stance on) but with that last blind I don’t have enough time to clear it and then use the skill. If I evade I don’t have enough time and if I don’t I’ll miss. There’s no room for countering it outside of Zerker Stance being up and I generally save that for the end of the fight because otherwise that smoke bomb they get at the end can save them.

That’s not true at all. There’s a lot of ways to counter blindness without ’zerker stance. Warriors are just so fixed at the utility skill that they ignore the usability of other skills.

For instance, if you have an Axe main-hand, Cyclone Axe can remove the blind if the Thief goes on stealth and they get really close. If they’re not in stealth, you can use Throw Axe to remove blind. Those skills are in fairly low cooldown even without traits.

Like almost all Thief builds the problem is not the focus of the build itself but rather the FREQUENCY of the main mechanic of the build. D/P is basically just using BP + Backstab. While almost every class has a main combo they don’t generally get to use the whole combo multiple times in the span of a minute.

What else do you want them to do in a span of a minute? Other professions have cooldowns as low kitten seconds. What do you think is the frequency of that skill in a minute?

You’re not making any sense.

Even warrior’s combos generally rely on at least one 20-40 second CD skill or utility. You can do smaller versions of the combo in between but you’ll only hit that big combo every now and then.

I hate to break it to you but a Sw/Sw Warrior has a max cooldown of 15 seconds. That’s only one weapon set, I know, but you’re only complaining about one weapon set also, that is D/P.

But guys!!! Thief needs blind to survive, without it we have nothing. Except stealth, and evade spam, and mobility.

a t s e.9614:

D/P is a almost a hard counter to warriors. The only way to win is to tank the thief till he has no stun breaks left and land your damage with berserk stance.

I know they are both my mains. I prefer going 1v1 against a warrior than anything else when playing thief.

But I don’t think the blind should be nerfed. Maybe the shot from black powder but not the field.

D/P thieves wreck pretty much every one of my warrior builds cause it’s near impossible to build up enough adrenaline to burst when constantly getting blind.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BurrTheKing.8571:

My problem with blind-focused Thieves is less the field itself and more the unblockable binds that get applied. Say I’m a Warrior with a shield. I see the BP go down and block the blind shot. They then leap and a blind gets applied through my block. If that blind wasn’t thee I could have positioned myself in such a way as to hit the Thief with something like an Eviscerate or Skull Crack(it’s hard but I’ve done it with Zerker Stance on) but with that last blind I don’t have enough time to clear it and then use the skill. If I evade I don’t have enough time and if I don’t I’ll miss. There’s no room for countering it outside of Zerker Stance being up and I generally save that for the end of the fight because otherwise that smoke bomb they get at the end can save them.

That’s not true at all. There’s a lot of ways to counter blindness without ’zerker stance. Warriors are just so fixed at the utility skill that they ignore the usability of other skills.

For instance, if you have an Axe main-hand, Cyclone Axe can remove the blind if the Thief goes on stealth and they get really close. If they’re not in stealth, you can use Throw Axe to remove blind. Those skills are in fairly low cooldown even without traits.

Like almost all Thief builds the problem is not the focus of the build itself but rather the FREQUENCY of the main mechanic of the build. D/P is basically just using BP + Backstab. While almost every class has a main combo they don’t generally get to use the whole combo multiple times in the span of a minute.

What else do you want them to do in a span of a minute? Other professions have cooldowns as low kitten seconds. What do you think is the frequency of that skill in a minute?

You’re not making any sense.

Even warrior’s combos generally rely on at least one 20-40 second CD skill or utility. You can do smaller versions of the combo in between but you’ll only hit that big combo every now and then.

I hate to break it to you but a Sw/Sw Warrior has a max cooldown of 15 seconds. That’s only one weapon set, I know, but you’re only complaining about one weapon set also, that is D/P.

You’re missing the whole point of what I’m saying. Skills like Evis, Skull Crack, hell EVERY burst skill is highly telegraphed to the point where you might as well be doing a Dragonball Z-style shout when you use them (Eeee—-vviiiisss-ooooorrr—-atttttoooo). In order to beat something like D/P you have to disrupt the leap while they’re in the Black Powder so they either have to use it again or they use another source like SR or their heal. There’s not a whole lot of ways to consistently do that on Warrior because it requires standing in the power in most cases. In addition to that they fire off a blind when they use BP which means that if Zerker Stance isn’t on within a second you have to clear said blind THEN interrupt the leap. If they do leap then they apply ANOTHER blind that you have to cleanse. With Axe/LB I can beat those thieves, but only because of Zerker Stance. Sometimes you get lucky and the Combustive Shot pulses just as you get blinded and the attack goes through but that’s not a guarantee.

Also, I really, REALLY have to laugh at any Thief that complains about Evis when you can do greater damage WHILE STEALTHED. If you get hit by an Evis that means you either got outplayed or did something wrong.

No profession has CDs comparable to Thief because…they have none. I don’t dislike the rouge archetype but the way it’s done in this game is terrible. I found the Way they did assassin in GW1 to have a much more interesting design. You had to land skills in a certain order, you couldn’t use Y attack until you hit with X. Some chains were short and able to be repeated quickly but if it was disrupted they had to start over from scratch and where typically punished with a CD. This sort of exists in GW2 but the lack of cooldowns makes it feel spammy and more forgiving.

Impale+Flurry isn’t a combo. That’s 2 conditions that are easily cleansed by many classes. What would be is Fear Me + Pin Down + Swap to sword with sigil of doom + impale + Flurry. Note that 2 of those skills have lengthy CD’s. Without FM landing Pin Down is more difficult since it has an obvious tell and only doing the sword half of the combo isn’t anywhere near as damaging. I think condi builds on any class don’t take much skill but it’s still not a combo you do every 15 seconds and it’s more complicated than BP + HS + Backstab. Most Thief specs revolve around the repeated use of 1 or 2 attacks while the rest are used for utility. That’s not really the fault of the players but just a problem with the class’s design.

That’s how thieves defend themselves by avoiding damage.
Shield bash/tremor+ eviscerate or just a couple of attacks and their dead already.
Fighting warriors as a thief is extreme uphill battle.
Most thieves wont even go for you if they have a alternative.
You have 130 range or more to hit the thief don’t stay in the combo field.

@OP:

Yes because then warriors would truly have no counter.

i’m a warrior and i think blind together with blinding black powder is fine as it is.

it is a good counter.

to me i think it is balanced nicely.

Has it been suggested that warriors stand outside the blind field? Their attacks encompass the entire diameter of the field.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BurrTheKing.8571:

My problem with blind-focused Thieves is less the field itself and more the unblockable binds that get applied. Say I’m a Warrior with a shield. I see the BP go down and block the blind shot. They then leap and a blind gets applied through my block. If that blind wasn’t thee I could have positioned myself in such a way as to hit the Thief with something like an Eviscerate or Skull Crack(it’s hard but I’ve done it with Zerker Stance on) but with that last blind I don’t have enough time to clear it and then use the skill. If I evade I don’t have enough time and if I don’t I’ll miss. There’s no room for countering it outside of Zerker Stance being up and I generally save that for the end of the fight because otherwise that smoke bomb they get at the end can save them.

That’s not true at all. There’s a lot of ways to counter blindness without ’zerker stance. Warriors are just so fixed at the utility skill that they ignore the usability of other skills.

For instance, if you have an Axe main-hand, Cyclone Axe can remove the blind if the Thief goes on stealth and they get really close. If they’re not in stealth, you can use Throw Axe to remove blind. Those skills are in fairly low cooldown even without traits.

Like almost all Thief builds the problem is not the focus of the build itself but rather the FREQUENCY of the main mechanic of the build. D/P is basically just using BP + Backstab. While almost every class has a main combo they don’t generally get to use the whole combo multiple times in the span of a minute.

What else do you want them to do in a span of a minute? Other professions have cooldowns as low kitten seconds. What do you think is the frequency of that skill in a minute?

You’re not making any sense.

Even warrior’s combos generally rely on at least one 20-40 second CD skill or utility. You can do smaller versions of the combo in between but you’ll only hit that big combo every now and then.

I hate to break it to you but a Sw/Sw Warrior has a max cooldown of 15 seconds. That’s only one weapon set, I know, but you’re only complaining about one weapon set also, that is D/P.

You’re missing the whole point of what I’m saying. Skills like Evis, Skull Crack, hell EVERY burst skill is highly telegraphed to the point where you might as well be doing a Dragonball Z-style shout when you use them (Eeee—-vviiiisss-ooooorrr—-atttttoooo). In order to beat something like D/P you have to disrupt the leap while they’re in the Black Powder so they either have to use it again or they use another source like SR or their heal. There’s not a whole lot of ways to consistently do that on Warrior because it requires standing in the power in most cases. In addition to that they fire off a blind when they use BP which means that if Zerker Stance isn’t on within a second you have to clear said blind THEN interrupt the leap. If they do leap then they apply ANOTHER blind that you have to cleanse. With Axe/LB I can beat those thieves, but only because of Zerker Stance. Sometimes you get lucky and the Combustive Shot pulses just as you get blinded and the attack goes through but that’s not a guarantee.

If you think that ’zerker stance is the only way to deal with this situation, then I feel sorry for you.

Also, I really, REALLY have to laugh at any Thief that complains about Evis when you can do greater damage WHILE STEALTHED. If you get hit by an Evis that means you either got outplayed or did something wrong.

Then laugh it out. Yes, if a Thief gets hit by Evis, that means you’re either on ’zerker stance or they failed to blind you or they failed to dodge of failed hide in stealth.

Do you get it now? Blind is a counter to Warrior and I don’t believe that it will change any time soon.

No profession has CDs comparable to Thief because…they have none.

Wow, really now. If you’re going to traverse into a dishonest discussion, then I bid you a very nice day.

If enough people play the same thing for so long, eventually a counter to it will start being played, and eventually that counter will be more widely used. Yes, I’m talking about ham/bow warriors. That’s what brought about the shadow shot blind tactic. I’ve been using it for months: shadow shot, auto chain, evade, shadow shot. You still take significant damage from their longbow though, a warrior that swaps to longbow every 5 seconds will still have the advantage.

I have two tips. First, instead of complaining that your build finally has a counter, put that effort into improving it or, God forbid, behave like a balanced class in this game and sacrifice something to be able to handle a specific mechanic when it comes around. Second, if you notice that your slow attacks are constantly missing, change your tactic during the fight.

You pointed out a number of times that you want to melee. Well, thieves melee too. If a thief doesn’t blind, and instead 1v1s you, melee v melee, you’ll kill the thief in a few seconds and 9 times out of ten, the warrior will /laugh or tell the thief to l2p, or some form of trash talk. The answer to fixing one thing isn’t to break another.

LOL, massive problem for warriors…..

Only a warrior would say that a broken skill that destroys everybody is suddenly a problem for only him.

Too bad, you met the one class you can’t faceroll besides an engineer. Suffer.

Play a power ranger or a mesmer that gets far more hardcountered by thief, let alone an ele getting steamrolled by warriors and thieves and engineers and get back to me.

Solori.6025:

Dee Jay.2460:

I just wanted to point out just how poorly designed Black Powder specifically and Blind spam in general is balanced in this game.

Blind essentially negates a hit that would otherwise be a successful attack. It wastes the cooldown and is in all cases a very powerful mitigation mechanic. It is something that could be applies every 10-20 seconds in a balanced environment, but it can’t be something that is spammed non stop.

It’s especially problematic when combined with Thieves because you need a successful attack in order to clear the blind effect. And hitting a stealthed target is a matter of luck. Classes that rely almost exclusively on physical melee damage have virtually NO WAY of ever hitting a semi-competent Thief who uses Black Powder and Shadow Shot in a sensible manner. Nada.

Berserker Stance gives you 8 seconds of condition immunity and thus a break from the constant blind spa. But those 8 seconds are easy enough to kite/stealth for any Thief, and then it’s back to immunity.

I have both a Thief and a Warrior and I’ve been on both ends of this battle a number of times. Frankly I can’t think of many other abilities that are such a hard-counter to an entire class. If I’m smart enough to avoid Berserker Stance I am virtually immune to any Warrior melee build. It’s really quite a joke.

Blind was conceived….and should be, a situational condition. It should not be something that can be spammed and reapplied every few seconds, especially not by a class that gives you no opportunity to cleanse it.

Cleansing Ire..

Longbow

berserker stance.

You have too many ways to deal with blind, as a warrior
If a thief were to try this with me I would use zerk stance and hit him while being immune..
It is really amazing how much damage a warrior can dish out in 8 seconds.

Even when that stance is up, you can remove blind ( and conditions for that matter) faster than any other class in game right now because of 1 trait.

But for the sake of pistol off hand.
because I already dislike thieves.
Why I wouldnt mind blinding powder being a dark field that pulsed every 3 seconds

instant uselessness and balance..

what do you think guys?

Sounds good in paper. But in practice a thief would stealth away and wait for Zerker stance to go down. They have the DPS to outdamage the Healing sig healing. There is no rush for them.

runeblade.7514:

Solori.6025:

Dee Jay.2460:

I just wanted to point out just how poorly designed Black Powder specifically and Blind spam in general is balanced in this game.

Blind essentially negates a hit that would otherwise be a successful attack. It wastes the cooldown and is in all cases a very powerful mitigation mechanic. It is something that could be applies every 10-20 seconds in a balanced environment, but it can’t be something that is spammed non stop.

It’s especially problematic when combined with Thieves because you need a successful attack in order to clear the blind effect. And hitting a stealthed target is a matter of luck. Classes that rely almost exclusively on physical melee damage have virtually NO WAY of ever hitting a semi-competent Thief who uses Black Powder and Shadow Shot in a sensible manner. Nada.

Berserker Stance gives you 8 seconds of condition immunity and thus a break from the constant blind spa. But those 8 seconds are easy enough to kite/stealth for any Thief, and then it’s back to immunity.

I have both a Thief and a Warrior and I’ve been on both ends of this battle a number of times. Frankly I can’t think of many other abilities that are such a hard-counter to an entire class. If I’m smart enough to avoid Berserker Stance I am virtually immune to any Warrior melee build. It’s really quite a joke.

Blind was conceived….and should be, a situational condition. It should not be something that can be spammed and reapplied every few seconds, especially not by a class that gives you no opportunity to cleanse it.

Cleansing Ire..

Longbow

berserker stance.

You have too many ways to deal with blind, as a warrior
If a thief were to try this with me I would use zerk stance and hit him while being immune..
It is really amazing how much damage a warrior can dish out in 8 seconds.

Even when that stance is up, you can remove blind ( and conditions for that matter) faster than any other class in game right now because of 1 trait.

But for the sake of pistol off hand.
because I already dislike thieves.
Why I wouldnt mind blinding powder being a dark field that pulsed every 3 seconds

instant uselessness and balance..

what do you think guys?

Sounds good in paper. But in practice a thief would stealth away and wait for Zerker stance to go down. They have the DPS to outdamage the Healing sig healing. There is no rush for them.

I’d swap to shortbow for 10 seconds to keep that health from regenerating fully. It boggles my mind when warriors choose to fight inside of blackpowder, you can skirt around field while still meleeing a thief, because melee cleave has enough range to do so. I notice a lot of guardians do the same thing. Any other class, like a Mesmer, ranger, thief, elementalist, etc. that are running melee I notice very few people stand in black powder. Not sure why the heavies I fight have a tendency to stand in it and the other professions rarely do so.

Shockwave.1230:

I’d swap to shortbow for 10 seconds to keep that health from regenerating fully. It boggles my mind when warriors choose to fight inside of blackpowder, you can skirt around field while still meleeing a thief, because melee cleave has enough range to do so. I notice a lot of guardians do the same thing. Any other class, like a Mesmer, ranger, thief, elementalist, etc. that are running melee I notice very few people stand in black powder. Not sure why the heavies I fight have a tendency to stand in it and the other professions rarely do so.

“High skill high win. High gear high skill. Me heavy armour class. Heavy bigger than medium. Me stand one spot auto attack for easy win vs medium noob. With my gear, I very strong.

Wtf.

Thief OP."

Godda love how many people clearly and blatantly ignore points I made in my OP.

I specifically mentioned Warrior builds with melee weapons (even if the constant Blind spam is hard to deal with for any weapon).

I specifically mentioned that the Black Powder effect was the least of the problems because at least that part is avoidable.

But frankly judging by the posts here I doubt most posters even know that Black Powder even has an actual Blinding Shot with 900 range.

I also said that I play a Thief myself as a main and now just how hard Blind spam counters Warriors. And while I’m all for having advantages and disadvantages against certain builds, being able to kill another class without them even having a chance to hit you is pretty stupid.

Dee Jay.2460:

Godda love how many people clearly and blatantly ignore points I made in my OP.

I specifically mentioned Warrior builds with melee weapons (even if the constant Blind spam is hard to deal with for any weapon).

I specifically mentioned that the Black Powder effect was the least of the problems because at least that part is avoidable.

But frankly judging by the posts here I doubt most posters even know that Black Powder even has an actual Blinding Shot with 900 range.

I also said that I play a Thief myself as a main and now just how hard Blind spam counters Warriors. And while I’m all for having advantages and disadvantages against certain builds, being able to kill another class without them even having a chance to hit you is pretty stupid.

Use one AA and Blind is gone ? Wow so hard

Evilek.5690:

Use one AA and Blind is gone ? Wow so hard

It is easy, but for every blind you get you are not building adrenaline, which slows your ability to burst and makes it difficult to gain control of the fight. That’s why blinds are so effective against warriors.

A) literally 1 auto attack removes a blind.

B) Why do we need a warrior specific discusion. I play a warrior. I see no relavence to blinds and adrenaline. We already have it all compared to the other professions.

Dee Jay.2460:

And frankly, I know how OP Blind spam is on a Thief because I exploit it every day. I mean that skill alone is what makes Thieves viable for high-level fractals. Not sure if complete melee immunity was ever the desired effect though. I doubt it.

I believe it is, that’s why champs and bosses have Unshakable. Otherwise any thief would solo them easily. Against trash mobs it’s is supposed to let us “immune”.

But i agree that the build-in combo on BP is too strong, Thieves shouldn’t be able to drop the Smoke Field and use the Projectile finisher at the same time.

dancingmonkey.4902:

A) literally 1 auto attack removes a blind.

B) Why do we need a warrior specific discusion. I play a warrior. I see no relavence to blinds and adrenaline. We already have it all compared to the other professions.

A: That AA has to connect, if your target is stealthed, good luck clearing that blind.
B: I don’t think it is a problem either. I’m just stating that if you want to really hinder a warrior’s DPS, blind him. Every attack you waste clearing blind is not doing damage and is not building adrenaline which means longer times between bursts and significantly reduces your ability to keep the pressure on.