Guild Wars 2

The only argument I would make for nerfing Incendiary powder (and a lot of things, but that isn’t what this discussion is about) is having “powerful effects” be tied to big tells. It is why pin-down needed a change. It is why most heals have pretty long cast times. It is why most really hard-hitting skills/effects have long cast/animation times.

Having so much cheap, free damage without a tell is a bad thing (air/fire sigils, hard-hitting fresh-air ele procs, shadowsteps that ignore LOS, instant fears that do damage, etc.). If engies really need more poke-damage, put it on their auto-attack like most other classes. If you are playing defensively, you shouldn’t have a ton of pressure.

Of course, I would like to see a lot of things changed to be more animation-based, and thus more skillful.

coglin.1867:

Chaith, I feel part of your problem here, is that you are automatically assuming that every posters comments refer exclusively to specific situations in sPvP. I saw nothing in the title or the OP that specifies this discussion is based on sPvP. I cannot speak for everyone else, but I was not being exclusive to a specific game mode in my comments.

I would appreciate it if you would not take my statements out of context and apply it to only one specific situation, and presume to declare my opinion as discount able, simply because you only see things in terms of sPvP.

Why would the way Incendiary Powder is procced matter in any non player vs. player scenario?

Move this trait to grandmaster.

Chaith.8256:

coglin.1867:

Chaith, I feel part of your problem here, is that you are automatically assuming that every posters comments refer exclusively to specific situations in sPvP. I saw nothing in the title or the OP that specifies this discussion is based on sPvP. I cannot speak for everyone else, but I was not being exclusive to a specific game mode in my comments.

I would appreciate it if you would not take my statements out of context and apply it to only one specific situation, and presume to declare my opinion as discount able, simply because you only see things in terms of sPvP.

Why would the way Incendiary Powder is procced matter in any non player vs. player scenario?

it wouldn’t matter. No one suggested it did. I simply stated that my previous post was in context of roaming in WvW., havoc group clashes, etc.

I love how after I asked you politely, you continue to question me for having an opinion, and show absolutely no effort or concern for making rude assumptions. How considerate of you.

Like it or not, there are reasons for concern that players may have, outside the scope of sPvP. WvW is a player vs. player game mode, and there are many situations in which skilled game play comes into effect. Which is precisely the scope of my comments.

coglin.1867:

Chaith.8256:

coglin.1867:

Chaith, I feel part of your problem here, is that you are automatically assuming that every posters comments refer exclusively to specific situations in sPvP. I saw nothing in the title or the OP that specifies this discussion is based on sPvP. I cannot speak for everyone else, but I was not being exclusive to a specific game mode in my comments.

I would appreciate it if you would not take my statements out of context and apply it to only one specific situation, and presume to declare my opinion as discount able, simply because you only see things in terms of sPvP.

Why would the way Incendiary Powder is procced matter in any non player vs. player scenario?

Roaming in WvW., havoc group clashes, etc.

I love how after I asked you politely, you continue to question me for having an opinion, and show absolutely no effort or concern for making rude assumptions. How considerate of you.

Like it or not, there are reasons for concern that players may have, outside the scope of sPvP. WvW is a player vs. player game mode, and there are many situations in which skilled game play comes into effect. Which is precisely the scope of my comments.

Chaith said “in any non PVP situation”, PVP which includes WvW. Also, you didn’t answer his question, how does the way IP procs matter in any non PVP situation?

And how was he in any way rude? I remember you accusing me of the same thing and reporting me. If you’re this sensitive maybe you shouldn’t be so abrasive yourself.

[quote=4033284;coglin.1867:]

I also agree that this trait should be reworked.

It’s been nerfed several times already… if you want it to be reworked to be easier to avoid, then the damage should be buffed to compensate for the lowered reward/higher risk of it doing nothing. As is right now, a lot of eng builds depend on this trait to make up for the low damage of the rest of eng’s attacks. It might even require a rework/buff to a lot of the lower eng skills if it was easier to avoid.

TBH throwing Balthazar Runes on i’ve looked at the tool tip in HotM, with rabids and a 4/6/0/4/0 set up I’ve seen that single trait’s tool tip state 8k damage in burning, on a ICD of 10s. I kinda hope it changed to something a little bit more predictable/skill wise to land instead of passive proc on crit.

This trait is far too strong without a doubt 6k burning damage every 10 second which can’t be avoided is no fun to play against and takes no skill.

Lucentfir.7430:

TBH throwing Balthazar Runes on i’ve looked at the tool tip in HotM, with rabids and a 4/6/0/4/0 set up I’ve seen that single trait’s tool tip state 8k damage in burning, on a ICD of 10s. I kinda hope it changed to something a little bit more predictable/skill wise to land instead of passive proc on crit.

You don’t get 8k damage for IP in sPVP. So if you’re getting 8k damage in PVE/WvW then it’s something else that’s OP (i.e. food buffs).

Lucentfir.7430:

TBH throwing Balthazar Runes on i’ve looked at the tool tip in HotM, with rabids and a 4/6/0/4/0 set up I’ve seen that single trait’s tool tip state 8k damage in burning, on a ICD of 10s. I kinda hope it changed to something a little bit more predictable/skill wise to land instead of passive proc on crit.

If we entertain the idea that you have 100% burn duration IP would last for 8seconds.

That still means your burns are ticking for 1000damage.

Burning has a 328base tick at lv80, and a .25 coefficient. This means you must have 2688condition damage to get 8k damage from IP.

I think we can safely say this number is wildly exegerated by your tooltip.

coglin.1867:

I would love to out play Unblockable necro marks.

Hmm… You know that Marks are blockable? To make them unblockable you have to put 4 in Death Magic and almost nbody does that

Rym.1469:

coglin.1867:

I would love to out play Unblockable necro marks.

Hmm… You know that Marks are blockable? To make them unblockable you have to put 4 in Death Magic and almost nbody does that

We were talking about traits, and IP is a 4point investment aswell.

The idea people had was that IP should be outplayable, while every other proc isnt. And a fair number of non-proc based abilities and traits arent either.

Lets change -
IP,
Vigor on crit,
bleed on crit,
swiftness on crit,
might on crit,
all proc sigils,
life steal on crit,
life force regeneration on crit,
when you reach X health you gain Y,
Remove all conditions caused by weapon skills i.e. immobilize, cripple, bleed
Remove all invulnerable skills or give them a cast time.
Remove all instant skills or give them a cast time
Change dodge function to give a cast time or remove invulnerability frames from dodges
Remove all evade skills
Put a cast time on Weapon swap

The premise that you can’t outplay IP so it’s bad is weak otherwise Anet would have given us infinite dodges or a block button like a fighting game. There are so many things in this game you can’t outplay! Guaranteed damage is apart of the game just like guaranteed avoidance is apart of the game. If you don’t like guaranteed damage then you need to play another game and probably another genre.

Rym.1469:

coglin.1867:

I would love to out play Unblockable necro marks.

Hmm… You know that Marks are blockable? To make them unblockable you have to put 4 in Death Magic and almost nbody does that

Umm, yes I did know that. Personally I have leveled all 8 professions in WvW, and I have participated in discussions on the topic of unblockable, in both the profession balance and the necromancer sub forums.

I thought it was kind of over obvious that I know marks can be made unblockable, seeing as how i stated it specifically. I was using it as a relative comparison to this trait for example. As mentioned already, to clarify the point I was trying to make, is that this is also a 4 trait point investment. As well, there is a fair amount of damage that comes from necro proc traits that cannot be avoided by blocking because of this trait. Personally, I have no problem with that trait, but i think it is relative to the conversation.

Similarly, I see no particularly problem with IP given the context the devs themselves have stated it exist for. Personally, I never use it (I do not generally play engineer in sPvP, but I play engineer in vast amounts in WvW) as I have more burning then I need generally out of the 7s out of rocket kick and 3s-12s out of fire bomb. I mention up to 12s because if I can keep a player in it for its opening explosion and the 3 tics after, it is 12s of burning. This can be maximized with cripples , immobilizes, and hard CC with my build.

My point is, we can make due with out it because we have multiple access to burns in skill native to the profession. Given that fact combined with the context that the devs previously explained it exists for, I see no reason what so ever to change it at all.

Terrahero.9358:

Lucentfir.7430:

TBH throwing Balthazar Runes on i’ve looked at the tool tip in HotM, with rabids and a 4/6/0/4/0 set up I’ve seen that single trait’s tool tip state 8k damage in burning, on a ICD of 10s. I kinda hope it changed to something a little bit more predictable/skill wise to land instead of passive proc on crit.

If we entertain the idea that you have 100% burn duration IP would last for 8seconds.

That still means your burns are ticking for 1000damage.

Burning has a 328base tick at lv80, and a .25 coefficient. This means you must have 2688condition damage to get 8k damage from IP.

I think we can safely say this number is wildly exegerated by your tooltip.

But we can’t let engineers have any good traits, especially passive ones, they have to work for their wins over Hambows or Minion Meisters.

Funny thread really.
Everyone that dies because of burning should check his build, equipment or playstyle.

Conditions don’t have tells because they can be cleaned. The damage is higher because it generally isn’t all going to be taken.

Engineers have relatively weak stack intensity conditions (though they have a lot of them). They rely on burning and perplexity for the foundation of their condition damage.

You would do too much damage to an engineer stripping out this trait.

Yes because hambows’ combustive shot is super easy to outplay. Just run off the node. Amirite? So is the almost perma cc. Just don’t be near them and you’re golden.