I would really love to see this idea reworked or thoroughly thought out, ArenaNet.
Chill affecting attunement swapping is extremely detrimental to an Elementalist as a trait that is heavily relied upon for survivability is Elemental Attunement. If Eles are unable to utilise this trait because of a single condition it is near impossible to recover in a fight 1v1 let alone a group fight. The Steal chill duration, coupled with the fact that Steal is an instant cast and cannot be predicted, makes thieves particularly exasperating to fight as there is only a small amount of knowledge needed to use this skill effectively against the Elementalist.
Elementalists have no weapon swap and the only logical reason I can think of as to why chill affects attunement swapping is to punish having twenty weapon skills even further. Where does it end? Many thoughtful Elementalist builds have Cleansing Water as a means to remove conditions when attuning to water to counter play conditions. This means that the main source of active counter Eles have is being put on a longer cool down and I cannot see the logic behind this as it does not facilitate play-counter play tactics.
Thanks for your time.
-Jam
Attempting to contact arenanet.support seeking counselling expenses.
What meta are you referring to? They had one nerf reverted and an evade put on Burning Speed. This was a problem before this patch regardless.
Eles are pretty common and very desirable in all game modes atm, so when you base your argument around eles being too weak because of this, you’re going to face (very valid) criticism that frankly eles aren’t weak right now. Eles are actually extremely strong in both 1v1 and teamfights because they bring tons of literally everything.
The reason chill affects it is because it is considered a skill, and skills are affected by chill.
The reason chill affects it is because it is considered a skill, and skills are affected by chill.
Tho this should get fixed (and since we main em, you know the same applies to necro stuff like signets/weapon swap disabled in DS, transforms destroying minions, etc).
Lazy dev coding should be flat out patched as soon as possible (same with engine optimization, fov/zoom/basic platformer camera rules, compatibility with new nvidia drivers and in general AMD support, etc)
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
What meta are you referring to? They had one nerf reverted and an evade put on Burning Speed. This was a problem before this patch regardless.
Eles are pretty common and very desirable in all game modes atm, so when you base your argument around eles being too weak because of this, you’re going to face (very valid) criticism that frankly eles aren’t weak right now. Eles are actually extremely strong in both 1v1 and teamfights because they bring tons of literally everything.
The reason chill affects it is because it is considered a skill, and skills are affected by chill.
His argument was not at all that Eles were “too weak because of this”. He said that the interplay between chill and Elementalists was heavily overbalanced in favor of chill. He gave the Thief’s steal as a particularly egregious example. Steal can only be reasonably anticipated as it is instant cast and as of a few patches ago it can’t be LoSed (which has huge implications in WvW and on maps like Kyhlo). Granted many Thief setups do not have the easiest time against Eles but this sole matchup is a poor and narrow basis for forming long-term balance decisions because the game is always changing. People did not argue against QoL passes on Death Shroud just because Dhuumfire was strong at the time. Such an argument would be asinine.
As for the condition itself, you are not only locked out of the Protection from Earth attunement or the cleanse from Water but you’re also moving -66% slower which puts you in danger of melee burst and point-blank AoE. If I am afflicted with Weakness on my Mesmer I either cleanse or wait it out before using any high damage abilities. If an Elementalist is afflicted with a long duration chill, what exactly are they supposed to do? Pray they took Cleansing Fire and that it’s off cooldown? Walk in circles? For how easy it is to apply chill (it can be traited on sigils and runes) the reward ratio is way over-the-top.
As an aside if you have an issue with the popularity of “meta” Eles then it is in your best interests to reevaluate the effect of chill on Ele, because your chances are arguably best at recovering from chill on a common bruiser D/D Ele due to the substantial points in Water. Leaving things the way they are will only reinforce that perception amongst them.
I think Chill should affect Weapon Swapping and Initiative, personally. I’d like that way more. I think that’d be plenty enough buff for the Ele. >.>
Initiative, yes (because they are functionally cooldowns and otherwise chill is worthless against a baseline skilled thief because of the evasion frames and blinks they have), weapon swaps (or its equivalents), nope, since it would not only cause problems with bundles/transforms/other swap effect triggers, but also cause a imbalance with sigils and runes.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
Counterplay against signet of restoration is needed. Even if I get chill on them, it doesn’t last all that long and they just cycle 1-5. Its very pathetic. That signet should be changed to a bigger heal but when you proc a combo effect or something, because pressing 1-5 and swapping attunement is kitten. I don’t see them bursting anything, as much as just tiring you out because something is gana hit you.
Also idk their exact trait set up but having perma ~20 stacks of might effectively negating the need for heavy power investment is pretty kitten to me but I guess ele spent such a long time on that dirt nap I’ll let em be gods for a lil. Boon strip? Next rotation they get it back. Then the fresh air ele who could not be anymore obnoxious. “Ha, I’m smacking you for 10k, oh you come after me? I’ll just run away. I really should locate the attunement swap button”. Wish we all had fly swatters to get rid of these pests from pvp.
@Andele
I knew it wasn’t long before this petty argument turned on thief. Feel free to join the millions of other kittens who have no basis for changing the initiative system other than that they don’t like it.
“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
Counterplay against signet of restoration is needed. Even if I get chill on them, it doesn’t last all that long and they just cycle 1-5. Its very pathetic. That signet should be changed to a bigger heal but when you proc a combo effect or something, because pressing 1-5 and swapping attunement is kitten. I don’t see them bursting anything, as much as just tiring you out because something is gana hit you.
Also idk their exact trait set up but having perma ~20 stacks of might effectively negating the need for heavy power investment is pretty kitten to me but I guess ele spent such a long time on that dirt nap I’ll let em be gods for a lil. Boon strip? Next rotation they get it back. Then the fresh air ele who could not be anymore obnoxious. “Ha, I’m smacking you for 10k, oh you come after me? I’ll just run away. I really should locate the attunement swap button”. Wish we all had fly swatters to get rid of these pests from pvp.
Hahaha funny to read. Now rage on eles, i should take a photo of this. Negating heavy power investment? How about worst stats in game? How about no stats gain in obligatory arcane (except boon duration influencing that might u cry about)? Now you see might ingame and op as hell? Ele has to have might to do something because of heavy investment on defensive stats (and they did it long before patch). And if they get 20 stacks you mindlessly stand in middle of fire field and get all blast finishers on it and on your face. About restoration signet – have you ever seen warriors healing signet? And other thing – NONE ele plays 1-5 cycle. But why am I even writing this whiners gonna whine.
Counterplay against signet of restoration is needed. Even if I get chill on them, it doesn’t last all that long and they just cycle 1-5. Its very pathetic. That signet should be changed to a bigger heal but when you proc a combo effect or something, because pressing 1-5 and swapping attunement is kitten. I don’t see them bursting anything, as much as just tiring you out because something is gana hit you.
Also idk their exact trait set up but having perma ~20 stacks of might effectively negating the need for heavy power investment is pretty kitten to me but I guess ele spent such a long time on that dirt nap I’ll let em be gods for a lil. Boon strip? Next rotation they get it back. Then the fresh air ele who could not be anymore obnoxious. “Ha, I’m smacking you for 10k, oh you come after me? I’ll just run away. I really should locate the attunement swap button”. Wish we all had fly swatters to get rid of these pests from pvp.
Hahaha funny to read. Now rage on eles, i should take a photo of this. Negating heavy power investment? How about worst stats in game? How about no stats gain in obligatory arcane (except boon duration influencing that might u cry about)? Now you see might ingame and op as hell? Ele has to have might to do something because of heavy investment on defensive stats (and they did it long before patch). And if they get 20 stacks you mindlessly stand in middle of fire field and get all blast finishers on it and on your face. About restoration signet – have you ever seen warriors healing signet? And other thing – NONE ele plays 1-5 cycle. But why am I even writing this whiners gonna whine.
You seem to not understand what ~20 stacks of might is. That’s 700 power and condition damage, something the pvp amulets don’t even get up to so yeah, an amulet within an amulet is a little difficult. It’s not like those 20 stacks are difficult to maintain, and if they lose a few or get them stripped they don’t take long to regain them. A group giving heavy might to each other is one thing but doing that on your own is beyond reasonable. They wiggle you down between the conditions and DD while being very sustained, out lasting you in a fight. The few skills that might actually hit you for something they put no effort into landing, its just cast the skills and swap. I’m not saying its necessarily OP but watching it, fighting against or along side it, is quite dull.
“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
I’m maining ele and you get 20 stacks of might only when making every blast in fire field (to make it and deal dmg enemy must stand in middle of fire field like kitten), and it takes like 30 sec to get that much (some skills have 40 sec cooldown, so you wont regain it likely, and those stunning too). That is how ele works, he has low base power/condi and need to stack up. Nerf ele plax, my hambow too weak. Compare to it – base health 8k more, base armor 300 more, better cc (3 stuns with cooldown like 8 sec, immobilise and ele has 2 with cooldown 40 sec), better dmg, better healing signet, only worse mobility, he can get likely over 11 stacks of might. So much l2p issue. Other classes get might too, all classes run sigil of strength now.
I’m maining ele and you get 20 stacks of might only when making every blast in fire field (to make it and deal dmg enemy must stand in middle of fire field like kitten), and it takes like 30 sec to get that much (some skills have 40 sec cooldown, so you wont regain it likely, and those stunning too). That is how ele works, he has low base power/condi and need to stack up. Nerf ele plax, my hambow too weak. Compare to it – base health 8k more, base armor 300 more, better cc (3 stuns with cooldown like 8 sec, immobilise and ele has 2 with cooldown 40 sec), better dmg, better healing signet, only worse mobility, he can get likely over 11 stacks of might. So much l2p issue. Other classes get might too, all classes run sigil of strength now.
Cuz I’m definitely advocating that hambow is not an issue :/
Hard to argue with an ele when they spent months taking it up the kitten. I’ll let you rest up before presenting something rational. The pre-nerfed ele when they were gods didn’t just forget their training wheels. Many of them are either back or never left and know how much better they are now (still not like they used to be, thankfully) but, enjoy your vacation. Can only show you how thoughtless these builds are, can’t make you change your build though.
#buttonwars2
“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
Cuz I’m definitely advocating that hambow is not an issue :/
Hard to argue with an ele when they spent months taking it up the kitten. I’ll let you rest up before presenting something rational. The pre-nerfed ele when they were gods didn’t just forget their training wheels. Many of them are either back or never left and know how much better they are now (still not like they used to be, thankfully) but, enjoy your vacation. Can only show you how thoughtless these builds are, can’t make you change your build though.
#buttonwars2
Have you ever played ele? You think it is easy class? And as for the build, I used celestial since it came out, mainly wvw roam, now pvping abit, cause erlier eles were nerfed to the ground. Now is like in wvw. You say thoughtless and even don’t know how they stack might, or how to use burning speed as evade and distance maker. See how Intigo plays. Better to play braindead necro condispam? Or mm, even power – so much skill. Maybe guardian? Unkillable standing doing nothing with passive defence. Maybe axe warriors with burst every 8 sec? Or maybe decap engi? Condi thief? You say hambow is the problem too, so who isn’t? Every class op nerf plax. Wanna know how to deal with eles (YES THERE IS COUNTERPLAY) – stunlock, hard condibursters, bursters. Ele is very vulnarable for bursts, he has his rotation, when you burst/condiburst him when he’s in water he’s dead… Just use brain, see which attunement he’s in. This class has worst base stats and highest cooldowns of all – just wait for initial stuns/firegrab etc. I have 4 characters on 80 and leveling another. Played them in pvp, and did well, even too well, cause of easiness of rest classes. Only thing thay changed in this class is evade on burning speed and one more blast finisher, thats all. Ah, if you play thief – then ele is just counter.
I wasn’t joking. Stop, drop, and roll trait. You are welcome.
Artificially making 1 class more susceptible to a condition in order to justify a total crap trait like SD&R is terrible game design. Not to mention, dogged march (warrior adept) is twice as good yet costs half the points.
I wasn’t joking. Stop, drop, and roll trait. You are welcome.
Artificially making 1 class more susceptible to a condition in order to justify a total crap trait like SD&R is terrible game design. Not to mention, dogged march (warrior adept) is twice as good yet costs half the points.
Crap trait? Why don’t you actually try running it? It’s unbelievably good. And it’s not only chilled, but burning as well. Great against other eles, warriors, condi engis, etc. And it works outside of water attunement. Try it before knocking it.
Having a weakness is a good thing, imo. If anything, they should make other professions have such a weakness.
As far as ways to deal with it, you can always take soothing disruption + cleansing water, take stop, drop, and roll, or be patient and wait for the chill so you can counterplay it.
I will say, Ice-shard stab SHOULD have a cast time. IDK why Anet is obsessed with giving some classes (especially thief) such powerful instant-cast skills. Ice shard stab is pretty much an instant win if the thief is smart and just applies it after you leave water, and you can’t even dodge it.
I wasn’t joking. Stop, drop, and roll trait. You are welcome.
Artificially making 1 class more susceptible to a condition in order to justify a total crap trait like SD&R is terrible game design. Not to mention, dogged march (warrior adept) is twice as good yet costs half the points.
Crap trait? Why don’t you actually try running it? It’s unbelievably good. And it’s not only chilled, but burning as well. Great against other eles, warriors, condi engis, etc. And it works outside of water attunement. Try it before knocking it.
I’d love to try it. One question though, knowing anet, does this effect proc from dodging and put it on the 10s cd even if you dont have burning or chill?
Counterplay against signet of restoration is needed. Even if I get chill on them, it doesn’t last all that long and they just cycle 1-5. Its very pathetic. That signet should be changed to a bigger heal but when you proc a combo effect or something, because pressing 1-5 and swapping attunement is kitten. I don’t see them bursting anything, as much as just tiring you out because something is gana hit you.
Also idk their exact trait set up but having perma ~20 stacks of might effectively negating the need for heavy power investment is pretty kitten to me but I guess ele spent such a long time on that dirt nap I’ll let em be gods for a lil. Boon strip? Next rotation they get it back. Then the fresh air ele who could not be anymore obnoxious. “Ha, I’m smacking you for 10k, oh you come after me? I’ll just run away. I really should locate the attunement swap button”. Wish we all had fly swatters to get rid of these pests from pvp.
@Andele
I knew it wasn’t long before this petty argument turned on thief. Feel free to join the millions of other kittens who have no basis for changing the initiative system other than that they don’t like it.
Your obvious thief bias and lack of knowledge shines through in this post. How can you claim ele is face roll when you don’t even know how a ele stacks might that’s like basic.
Your thief isn’t some over complex class nothing in gw2 really is. Most people that have been playing this game long enough can pick out what utilities you probably will pick and what you will do when you get low health. You probably think you should burst a ele when it is in water instead of after water. At least learn what your fighting before calling it face roll.
You are the same person that said you should condi burst a Necro before a Mesmer so your class ignorance is documented.
Counterplay against signet of restoration is needed. Even if I get chill on them, it doesn’t last all that long and they just cycle 1-5. Its very pathetic. That signet should be changed to a bigger heal but when you proc a combo effect or something, because pressing 1-5 and swapping attunement is kitten. I don’t see them bursting anything, as much as just tiring you out because something is gana hit you.
Also idk their exact trait set up but having perma ~20 stacks of might effectively negating the need for heavy power investment is pretty kitten to me but I guess ele spent such a long time on that dirt nap I’ll let em be gods for a lil. Boon strip? Next rotation they get it back. Then the fresh air ele who could not be anymore obnoxious. “Ha, I’m smacking you for 10k, oh you come after me? I’ll just run away. I really should locate the attunement swap button”. Wish we all had fly swatters to get rid of these pests from pvp.
@Andele
I knew it wasn’t long before this petty argument turned on thief. Feel free to join the millions of other kittens who have no basis for changing the initiative system other than that they don’t like it.
Your obvious thief bias and lack of knowledge shines through in this post. How can you claim ele is face roll when you don’t even know how a ele stacks might that’s like basic.
Your thief isn’t some over complex class nothing in gw2 really is. Most people that have been playing this game long enough can pick out what utilities you probably will pick and what you will do when you get low health. You probably think you should burst a ele when it is in water instead of after water. At least learn what your fighting before calling it face roll.
You are the same person that said you should condi burst a Necro before a Mesmer so your class ignorance is documented.
No sense argueing with you, like I said. Ele main’s are still kitten over their weak performance after the numerous nerfs. Ever since the feature update ele is certainly not an underdog but I’ll let you ride this one out, still doesn’t make what I said any less true. I’ve spectated numerous elementalists to see what their exactly doing, it’s down right pathetic. The ones who are surviving are the ones who press 3 then 2 or some variation of it, in the end it’s all about clicking through to the next attunement to get on attunement boons/spells and w/e else they have tied to it. A majority of the builds these days seem to be like that sadly.
And I would gladly attack a target who rarely dodges and has terrible stun breaking vs one who blinks and evades constantly. Locking a necro down and loading them up is far easier than against a Mesmer but you keep chasing fairies. Every post I see you claim that no ele build is obnoxious well I guess speed clearing dungeons can’t be annoying can it :/ Enjoy your pve bud.
P.s Quit quoting something I haven’t said or bring up topics completely irrelevant to the matter at hand, if you’re searching for dirt there is no point in taking your posts seriously. There are issues with a lot of builds out there, don’t think ele is the 1 and only because someone is against their recent play style.
“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
Lol I PvE? Say what you will but you are in the minority on that necro logic. We can all continue to dismiss your posts as per usual. Yup, Spam condi’s on the Necro not the Mesmer we all must be doing it wrong.
I’m aware that this trait is really useful but I wasn’t asking for ways to counter chill, just bringing attention to what seems to be, in my eyes, an unjustfied balance issue.
Attempting to contact arenanet.support seeking counselling expenses.
Meanwhile, on the other side of the coin: attunement swapping allows Eles to proc on-swap sigils more frequently than classes with normal weapon swapping.
The only problem I have with chill is that Ice Shard Stab causes 10 seconds of it.
Meanwhile, on the other side of the coin: attunement swapping allows Eles to proc on-swap sigils more frequently than classes with normal weapon swapping.
The only problem I have with chill is that Ice Shard Stab causes 10 seconds of it.
Swap sigils got 9s cd, Weapon swapping is pre 10s.
Yeah no that argument doesnt hold water.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
Meanwhile, on the other side of the coin: attunement swapping allows Eles to proc on-swap sigils more frequently than classes with normal weapon swapping.
The only problem I have with chill is that Ice Shard Stab causes 10 seconds of it.
Swap sigils got 9s cd, Weapon swapping is pre 10s.
Yeah no that argument doesnt hold water.
In what way? 9s is shorter than 10s, and this is a disparity that grows with each sigil proc. Not to mention the fact that Eles can make efficient use of frequent attunement changes because of swapping traits and the flexibility of each attunement, as opposed to a class running one long-range weapon and one short-range weapon (as many are wont to do).
In what way? 9s is shorter than 10s, and this is a disparity that grows with each sigil proc. Not to mention the fact that Eles can make efficient use of frequent attunement changes because of swapping traits and the flexibility of each attunement, as opposed to a class running one long-range weapon and one short-range weapon (as many are wont to do).
You said that Eles can proc more swap sigils, i showed proof trough cooldowns that it doesnt work that way, there is no more discussion here.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
In what way? 9s is shorter than 10s, and this is a disparity that grows with each sigil proc. Not to mention the fact that Eles can make efficient use of frequent attunement changes because of swapping traits and the flexibility of each attunement, as opposed to a class running one long-range weapon and one short-range weapon (as many are wont to do).
You said that Eles can proc more swap sigils, i showed proof trough cooldowns that it doesnt work that way, there is no more discussion here.
In-combat, a cooldown on a normal weapon swap is 10 seconds.
The ICD on on-swap sigils is 9 seconds.
9 < 10.
But you’re quite right; there is no more discussion here. Unless, of course, you would care to state the facts that disprove my assertions above.
None of the thieves weapon skills have cd. Initiative is the only thing that can be considered a cd for thieves and it is not effected by chill. Thieves get half of the effective of chill because of their skill only being limited by initiative.
Ele – Tarnished Coast
“Quoth the raven nevermore”
Platinum Scout: 300% MF
I wasn’t joking. Stop, drop, and roll trait. You are welcome.
So to remove the unfair disadvantage ONE class has to a condition we should make ourselves WEAKER by taking such a trait. We should NOT need it. NO class should be affected by it for weapon/attunement swaps.
I wasn’t joking. Stop, drop, and roll trait. You are welcome.
So to remove the unfair disadvantage ONE class has to a condition we should make ourselves WEAKER by taking such a trait. We should NOT need it. NO class should be affected by it for weapon/attunement swaps.
If it’s handling one of your primary weaknesses, is it making you weaker?
If it’s handling one of your primary weaknesses, is it making you weaker?
Its a weakness due to the design, not the class. So why should we have to use traits to make a condition not be unfairly stronger against us than other classes? The trait also has a 10 second cool down and what if you have other traits picked? Having to change your trait set up to counter a issue that should NOT be in the game to begin with.
I’m not arguing that Chill should be affecting attunements, but right now, it does. Until it gets changed, it would be wise to use options you have already to solve the issue.
There is a laundry list of things that justify initiative not being affected by chill, and it isn’t just feelings. Also a lack of cd doesn’t mean our weapon skills are superior, there are drawbacks to it but you wouldn’t understand.
“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
There is a laundry list of things that justify initiative not being affected by chill, and it isn’t just feelings. Also a lack of cd doesn’t mean our weapon skills are superior, there are drawbacks to it but you wouldn’t understand.
. Try it before knocking it.