Guild Wars 2

In my opinion there are two big problems with the Condition meta and those are:

Rate which they can be applied

And the rate in which they can be cleansed before they can be re-applied.

It takes 1 stat to max out damage and the other 2 can be ba directed towards tankiness while direct damage users need, power, precision AND critical damage to proc our best output in sacriface of all survival whatsoever.

>BUT GET CONDITION REMOVAL ZOMG

As a thief player there’s not enough cond removal in any kind of build which can remove all the condition that condition build can apply (and re-apply cus why not) other than heavily investing in a trait line that i may or may not feel like traiting in just to counter game imbalances. That’s the reality of gw2.

Anyone who denies how conditions are completly broken in this game on all classes going from Thief, mesmer, engie (broken as kitten k bye) Necro and warrior (also gg broken), is purely lying to himself or is a condition user himself.

Oh and Crt dmg in a desperate try to fix the Pve meta which won’t change a bit. Thus making WvW condition roamers gods.

My jimmies are so rustled.

well I have some news for you:

good news is that condition damage requires three stats for full damage namely condition damage , condition duration and precision.

Another good news is that there exist a rune called rune of melandru which cuts down condition duration on you by 25%. There also exists a rune generousity and purity which transfer/remoce a condition. With the new sigil changes they can now be taken together. Another thing is that they in the future will not require a critical hit, so they will proc more often.

The bad news is that condition builds are probably are going to receive a buff due to rune changes. Now a condition build has to mix and match for full condition duration but now it will be likely that they can take a full set while maintaining the full duration. This assumption is based on the rune of balthazar changes.

Sons.5493:

There’s no real need to explain why condition build are so terrible unbalanced.

Actually there is. As the educated players have all seen the skill damage comparisons and videos proving that in most cases direct damage builds out damage condition builds. I am going to guess your making this blind accusation after having run zero test and no damage comparisons what so ever. I suggest doing it in soldiers compared to dire as I and other have already done, broken down, videod, and posted.

Sons.5493:

It taked 1 stat to max out damage and the other 2 can be ba directed towards tankiness while direct damage users need, power, precision AND critical damage to proc our best output in sacriface of all survival whatsoever.

This is actually untrue. I challenge you to prove your claims. Take the top damage builds in soldiers gear (only takes 1 stat for damage and the exact same two defensive stats). Hopefully in trying, you will learn for yourself what so many others have learned, tested, and posted, long ago.

Sons.5493:

As a thief player there’s not enough cond removal in any kind of build which can remove all the condition that condition build can apply (and re-apply cus why not) other than heavily investing in a trait line that i may or may not feel like traiting in just to counter game imbalances. That’s the reality of gw2.

Shadow Step/Return and Shadows Embrace are the best bet for thief. As a profession they are one of the lesser for condition removal, but that is in the inherent design of the profession. Condition applying skills are as easy to dodge as any other skill, just as hard to apply as direct damage skills when in stealth. There are some other professions with just as bad condition removal.

Sons.5493:

Anyone who denies how conditions are completly broken in this game on all classes going from Thief, mesmer, engie (broken as kitten k bye) Necro and warrior (also gg broken), is purely lying to himself or is a condition user himself.

That is not a very well thought out argument. Anyone who claims this has simply tested it and knows that it is actually a fact that direct damage builds have higher damage out put then conditions, and this is based on test and damage break downs in equivalent off/def stated gear.

Perhaps you should actually do a test yourself, and know some facts before you make such uninformed comments.

Tim.6450:

well I have some news for you:

good news is that condition damage requires three stats for full damage namely condition damage , condition duration and precision.

Lol no, condition build only needs condition damage and precision is a fluff stat. Condition duration isn’t built off of armor and only 1 weapon type has it.

Not trying to troll or anything I just have a question:
Are the people running these tests taking into account that direct damage tends to lean more to a bursting approach and conditions lean to a more sustained damage type approach?
Because my thought on why people may find conditions op where they think direct damage isn’t is pressure, direct damage NORMALLY (I say that because builds are different so im making it is clear that I acknowledge everyone is not the same) just requires you to dodge the main part of their burst and youre in the clear but with conditions there is a constant ticking damage that can last quite a while if specd right plus constant application you have to worry about. So is that being taken into account in tests or are people just assuming that because direct damage can take down a still target quicker it has more damage? (I run both so I don’t care which has more damage cause either way ill get in on it

coglin.1867:

Sons.5493:

There’s no real need to explain why condition build are so terrible unbalanced.

Actually there is. As the educated players have all seen the skill damage comparisons and videos proving that in most cases direct damage builds out damage condition builds. I am going to guess your making this blind accusation after having run zero test and no damage comparisons what so ever. I suggest doing it in soldiers compared to dire as I and other have already done, broken down, videod, and posted.

Sons.5493:

It taked 1 stat to max out damage and the other 2 can be ba directed towards tankiness while direct damage users need, power, precision AND critical damage to proc our best output in sacriface of all survival whatsoever.

This is actually untrue. I challenge you to prove your claims. Take the top damage builds in soldiers gear (only takes 1 stat for damage and the exact same two defensive stats). Hopefully in trying, you will learn for yourself what so many others have learned, tested, and posted, long ago.

Sons.5493:

As a thief player there’s not enough cond removal in any kind of build which can remove all the condition that condition build can apply (and re-apply cus why not) other than heavily investing in a trait line that i may or may not feel like traiting in just to counter game imbalances. That’s the reality of gw2.

Shadow Step/Return and Shadows Embrace are the best bet for thief. As a profession they are one of the lesser for condition removal, but that is in the inherent design of the profession. Condition applying skills are as easy to dodge as any other skill, just as hard to apply as direct damage skills when in stealth. There are some other professions with just as bad condition removal.

Sons.5493:

Anyone who denies how conditions are completly broken in this game on all classes going from Thief, mesmer, engie (broken as kitten k bye) Necro and warrior (also gg broken), is purely lying to himself or is a condition user himself.

That is not a very well thought out argument. Anyone who claims this has simply tested it and knows that it is actually a fact that direct damage builds have higher damage out put then conditions, and this is based on test and damage break downs in equivalent off/def stated gear.

Perhaps you should actually do a test yourself, and know some facts before you make such uninformed comments.

Ofcourse direct damage has more damage output that conditions (fairly) but thing is it’s direct, you need to be there, play agresive in order to actually put out damage, in condtion builds you just need to apply conds and play as defensive as you can whcih you’ll be able to do thanks to your godly tank stats.

So what you are saying is that a Full soldier Direct damage based build will be able to take on a condition based build? I think not.

You do realise we are talking about pvp here right? it’s not only aout the damage but they way it is applied and negated. Stop being so god kitten arrogant with your test when the meta is obviously shifted in favor of cond damage in the 1v1 potential.

Tim.6450:

well I have some news for you:

good news is that condition damage requires three stats for full damage namely condition damage , condition duration and precision.

k bye

As someone already said precision is just a fluff stat and Cond duration is mostly accquiered through food and traits.

About the runes and sigil i guess you do have a fair point that the changes in the sigils will make all those cond removing sigils actually really worth for builds with poor cond removal.

While the rune mix and matching will get nerfed, i reckon some other set will become really strong, or you can always run with perplexity, cus now even necros will be able to profit from those runes.

Hey I got one for you since we are just throwing things around!

At level 80 you have 916 power to start!!!!!!!
At level 80 you have 0 condition damage!!!!

If I told you I was giving you almost 1000 of any stat for free you would take it.

That 916 power to start means you put 916 points somewhere else.

Say you like 2000 power in your build that means you can start moving points somewhere else earlier because you got 916 power for free.

oZii.2864:

Hey I got one for you since we are just throwing things around!

At level 80 you have 916 power to start!!!!!!!
At level 80 you have 0 condition damage!!!!

If I told you I was giving you almost 1000 of any stat for free you would take it.

That 916 power to start means you put 916 points somewhere else.

Say you like 2000 power in your build that means you can start moving points somewhere else earlier because you got 916 power for free.

Obviously the game isn’t balanced around this at all.

oZii.2864:

Hey I got one for you since we are just throwing things around!

At level 80 you have 916 power to start!!!!!!!
At level 80 you have 0 condition damage!!!!

If I told you I was giving you almost 1000 of any stat for free you would take it.

That 916 power to start means you put 916 points somewhere else.

Say you like 2000 power in your build that means you can start moving points somewhere else earlier because you got 916 power for free.

You forgetting condition ignore armor,I be happy with 0 points at lvl 80 and ignoring armor with my power hits…

glaphen.5230:

oZii.2864:

Hey I got one for you since we are just throwing things around!

At level 80 you have 916 power to start!!!!!!!
At level 80 you have 0 condition damage!!!!

If I told you I was giving you almost 1000 of any stat for free you would take it.

That 916 power to start means you put 916 points somewhere else.

Say you like 2000 power in your build that means you can start moving points somewhere else earlier because you got 916 power for free.

Obviously the game isn’t balanced around this at all.

Are you sure it isn’t?

Last I checked any other rune gives you 165 of its primary stat whereas a condition damage rune gives you 183. Why do you think that is?

So you are telling me that they don’t balance the game around 916 power to start? Maybe they should take away the 916 power and everyone starts at 0 I bet everyone would love that. I bet 916 power to start factors into balance because it factors into everyones build even if they don’t realize it.

A condition build wants to reach 2000 condition damage he has to invest 2000 stat points toward condition damage. A power build has to invest 1084 stat points. Everyone knows that power> all offensive stats it is the most important offensive stat when building direct damage but you seem to imply 916 power just doesn’t matter. Ok.

Condition damage is the only offensive stat that starts at 0. The base critical damage is 150% so even if you don’t invest in critical damage you will always do more then base damage when you crit even if you don’t want to. You start with 4% critical chance but you say its a fluff stat.

Killface.1896:

You forgetting condition ignore armor,I be happy with 0 points at lvl 80 and ignoring armor with my power hits…

Not forgotten just not mentioned because I brought up 916 power because people are saying that condition builds only need to invest in 1 stat when power gets a 916 point headstart for stat points. The 2 just can’t be compared point for point but people keep trying so I threw 916 points in the ring.

You are correct so since direct damage and condition act different why are people still trying to compare them as if they act the same? They don’t kill the same, they aren’t effected by defenses the same but still people keep using the argument as if they are the same stats.

Apples and oranges tbh.

Sons.5493:

Ofcourse direct damage has more damage output that conditions (fairly) but thing is it’s direct, you need to be there, play agresive in order to actually put out damage, in condtion builds you just need to apply conds and play as defensive as you can which you’ll be able to do thanks to your godly tank stats.

You really do not understand how the game works ??? If skill A does 500 direct damage in 1s and skills B does 500 condition damage and takes 5s. The play is the same. Its a fairly basic concept. You very literally have to land the exact same amount of attacks. Both of which can be dodged or blocked, neither landing direct damage or condition damage.

Sons.5493:

So what you are saying is that a Full soldier Direct damage based build will be able to take on a condition based build? I think not.

Certainly you think not. While educated players know so. Again I challenge you to prove this claim.

You see what your not grasping is that you build with toughness in mind to naturally mitigate direct damage. You build with a stun breaker. But your not directly building to counter conditions. Then you complain when you fall to them. Build to counter for it or stop complaining.

Sons.5493:

You do realise we are talking about pvp here right? it’s not only aout the damage but they way it is applied and negated. Stop being so god kitten arrogant with your test when the meta is obviously shifted in favor of cond damage in the 1v1 potential.

Arrogance sir, is ranting your opinion as fact, with out actual knowledge of the facts or having done a single iota of testing, then going on as if your opinion is fact. What arrogance isn’t, is posting fact to counter mis-information, and disliking that someone made uninformed claims with out even checking the facts for themselves.
Funny, since you very literally do not put in the that this is PvP, and you very specifically only mention WvW and PvE in your rant of an OP.

Sons.5493:

As someone already said precision is just a fluff stat and Cond duration is mostly accquiered through food and traits.

That is a very uninformed statement. Do you have any idea how many conditions applied to you are based on “proc’ed crits” You ned to look here for example

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Critical_hit

Look at the very very long list of conditions that apply on crit and tell me critical chance doesn’t matter.

And if you think condition duration doesn’t count either, your hopeless. In sPvP for example I think you can get what, 30% condition duration. If you do not consider a 30% damage increase for one of the two damage types, your not looking at it clearly at all. If you think condition duration and critical chance do not play a part in condition builds, it is your own failure of understanding the game mechanics. that is your problem in sPvP and nothing else.

Ario.8964:

Because my thought on why people may find conditions op where they think direct damage isn’t is pressure, direct damage NORMALLY (I say that because builds are different so im making it is clear that I acknowledge everyone is not the same) just requires you to dodge the main part of their burst and youre in the clear but with conditions there is a constant ticking damage that can last quite a while

Personally, I feel it is because they do not put near the investment in anti conditions as they do anti direct damage with toughness or what not. The problem with your idea of pressure is, that If skill A does 500 direct damage in 1s and skills B does 500 condition damage and takes 5s. The damage per skill landed is the same. If you dodge my skill for condition application, I lose just as much damage as I would if you dodged my direct damage of the same out put. The problem is the perception of the two damage types are different. A player cannot stack up on toughness, then complain that condition do more damage. Of course they would, because you invested in toughness to mitigate direct damage and nothing to counter conditions. Hp helps to absorb conditions, but weapons skills, utilities, and traits require an investment to counter conditions. The OP for example, probably invest none of the resources towards mitigating condition, then blast the forums when he falls to them.

The same goes for stacking all defensive traits, stats, and skills, then complaining that you lack damage. If looking at it that way help to process what I am saying.

Tim.6450:

well I have some news for you:

good news is that condition damage requires three stats for full damage namely condition damage , condition duration and precision.

No. It only needs condition damage. Condition duration can be attained solely through consumables, stacks, and trait line bonuses. Power professions can’t attain all of their power, precision, or critical damage via those outlets. They have to invest those stats in their equipment, which conditions builds do not. You can go pure Dire with a condition spec, and then get everything else you may want (ie. condition duration) purely from one-off and/or cheaper methods that you don’t need to invest in.

It’s hardly balanced between the two.

Jackums.3496:

Tim.6450:

well I have some news for you:

good news is that condition damage requires three stats for full damage namely condition damage , condition duration and precision.

No. It only needs condition damage. Condition duration can be attained solely through consumables, stacks, and trait line bonuses. Power professions can’t attain all of their power, precision, or critical damage via those outlets. They have to invest those stats in their equipment, which conditions builds do not. You can go pure Dire with a condition spec, and then get everything else you may want (ie. condition duration) purely from one-off and/or cheaper methods that you don’t need to invest in.

It’s hardly balanced between the two.

This is incorrect, on all accounts. Every class, except thief, have traits, or conditional effects that proc conditions based on critical hits. Yes, a necromancer can go full dire, but they’ll do considerably less damage than one who goes full rabid. Condition duration is also necessary to maximize this damage. A necromancer with zero condition duration is lucky to go beyond 12-14 stacks of bleeds (which still does far less damage than someone in full PTV as already proven in this thread). It requires condition duration, and precision, to stack any more.

Kravick.4906:

Jackums.3496:

Tim.6450:

well I have some news for you:

good news is that condition damage requires three stats for full damage namely condition damage , condition duration and precision.

No. It only needs condition damage. Condition duration can be attained solely through consumables, stacks, and trait line bonuses. Power professions can’t attain all of their power, precision, or critical damage via those outlets. They have to invest those stats in their equipment, which conditions builds do not. You can go pure Dire with a condition spec, and then get everything else you may want (ie. condition duration) purely from one-off and/or cheaper methods that you don’t need to invest in.

It’s hardly balanced between the two.

This is incorrect, on all accounts. Every class, except thief, have traits, or conditional effects that proc conditions based on critical hits. Yes, a necromancer can go full dire, but they’ll do considerably less damage than one who goes full rabid. Condition duration is also necessary to maximize this damage. A necromancer with zero condition duration is lucky to go beyond 12-14 stacks of bleeds (which still does far less damage than someone in full PTV as already proven in this thread). It requires condition duration, and precision, to stack any more.

Wow a 66% chance for a whole 2 seconds of bleeding for the low cost of a huge amount of defensive stats. The only build where precision is any useful is Phantasmal Duelist Rampager Mesmer who can stack a ton of bleeding constantly.

glaphen.5230:

Wow a 66% chance for a whole 2 seconds of bleeding for the low cost of a huge amount of defensive stats. The only build where precision is any useful is Phantasmal Duelist Rampager Mesmer who can stack a ton of bleeding constantly.

You’re forgetting the condition duration that increases that amount, and yes, that adds up to a lot of damage over a fight. Thats 130 damage every second for at least 3 seconds (sometimes 4 but not everyone maxes their bleed duration) for a total of about 400-500 damage applied from just one stack. Considering the number of times I can “hit” a target (this procs off every single critical, regardless of what applied the critical), that can easily add up to 3-5k damage or more over the course of a 30 second fight.

Death by a thousand cuts is a legitimate tactic.

Kravick.4906:

glaphen.5230:

Wow a 66% chance for a whole 2 seconds of bleeding for the low cost of a huge amount of defensive stats. The only build where precision is any useful is Phantasmal Duelist Rampager Mesmer who can stack a ton of bleeding constantly.

You’re forgetting the condition duration that increases that amount, and yes, that adds up to a lot of damage over a fight. Thats 130 damage every second for at least 3 seconds (sometimes 4 but not everyone maxes their bleed duration) for a total of about 400-500 damage applied from just one stack. Considering the number of times I can “hit” a target (this procs off every single critical, regardless of what applied the critical), that can easily add up to 3-5k damage or more over the course of a 30 second fight.

Death by a thousand cuts is a legitimate tactic.

You won’t even hit 50% crit chance with full Rabid. So say you get 1/3 hits proccing and Necromancer has no condition multi hit weapons so 1 cast per second=100 extra damage a second with bleeds assuming they aren’t removed and you have 50% condition duration. The only thing you’re giving up by not using Dire is more than 10000 health so its a great trade off I guess, which turns into more condition damage though Tuning Crystals.

glaphen.5230:

Kravick.4906:

glaphen.5230:

Wow a 66% chance for a whole 2 seconds of bleeding for the low cost of a huge amount of defensive stats. The only build where precision is any useful is Phantasmal Duelist Rampager Mesmer who can stack a ton of bleeding constantly.

You’re forgetting the condition duration that increases that amount, and yes, that adds up to a lot of damage over a fight. Thats 130 damage every second for at least 3 seconds (sometimes 4 but not everyone maxes their bleed duration) for a total of about 400-500 damage applied from just one stack. Considering the number of times I can “hit” a target (this procs off every single critical, regardless of what applied the critical), that can easily add up to 3-5k damage or more over the course of a 30 second fight.

Death by a thousand cuts is a legitimate tactic.

You won’t even hit 50% crit chance with full Rabid. So say you get 1/3 hits proccing and Necromancer has no condition multi hit weapons so 1 cast per second=100 extra damage a second with bleeds assuming they aren’t removed and you have 50% condition duration. The only thing you’re giving up by not using Dire is more than 10000 health so its a great trade off I guess, which turns into more condition damage though Tuning Crystals.

I have about 45% crit chance now and I don’t have full rabid. I’m using rabid weapons and trinkets with dire armor. I get about 60% crit chance with full rabid. I don’t know what game you’re playing, but its clearly not this one.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQFAGiAiUAAAA-zEBBYhApoFRjVdDTHjIqGA-w
49% with 20 points in Curses, going in 30 is a huge waste and the only precision runes that are worth it is 2 Lyssa for the condition duration and that gives a whole 1%.

@ Glaphen You need to scroll up. All of your arguments we addressed before you posted. You simply chose to ignore facts force your opinion

I challenge you to go and actually test all 8 professions in your best soldiers gear direct damage and then dire gear, you will learn for a fact that ditect damage doesn’t need crit chance any more or less then conditions. You will also learn you will be able to make no precision power builds out damage dire builds. It has already been broken down, compared, and even recorded on video and posted on the forums many times.

All of the following need crit chance to maximize benefits on a condition build

This is not the full list

Vigorous Precision — Gain vigor when you deliver a critical hit.
Empowering Might — You and nearby allies gain might when you land a critical hit.
Furious Speed — You have a chance to gain swiftness on critical hits.
Precise Strikes — Chance to cause bleeding on critical hits.
Rending Strikes — You have a chance to cause vulnerability on critical hits.
Forceful Greatsword — Gain might on a critical hit with a greatsword or spear. Reduces recharge on greatsword and spear skills.
Incendiary Powder — Critical hits inflict burning.
Sharpshooter — Critical hits have a chance to cause bleeding.
Infused Precision — You have a chance to gain swiftness on critical hits.
Go for the Eyes — Critical hits with rifles have a chance to inflict blindness.
Precise Sights — You have a chance to cause vulnerability on critical hits
Companion’s Might — Critical hits grant might to your pet.
Sharpened Edges — Chance to cause bleeding on critical hits.
Ankle Shots — Critical hits with a pistol have a chance to cripple foes.
Sundering Strikes — Critical hits have a chance to cause vulnerability.
Critical Haste — You have a chance to gain quickness on a critical hit.
Burning Precision — Critical hits have a chance to cause burning.
Weak Spot — Chance to cause vulnerability on critical hits.
Soothing Wave — Gain regeneration when critically hit.
Arcane Precision — Skills have a chance to apply a condition on critical hits.
Renewing Stamina — Gain vigor when you deliver a critical hit.
Critical Infusion — Gain vigor when delivering a critical hit.
Barbed Precision — Critical hits have a chance to cause bleeding.
Reaper’s Precision — You have a chance to gain life force on critical hits.
Withering Precision — Apply weakness on critical hits.
Vampiric Precision — Siphon health whenever you critical hit.

Sigil of Blood — chance to cause life stealing
Sigil of Earth — chance to cause Bleeding.png Bleeding
Sigil of Frailty — chance to cause Vulnerability.png Vulnerability
Sigil of Ice — chance to cause Chilled.png Chilled
Sigil of Rage — chance to gain Quickness.png Quickness
Sigil of Strength — chance to gain Might.png Might
Superior Sigil of Nullification — chance to remove a boon

A Dire build will ALWAYS out damage a Soldiers build and you realize that you just put 20 points into a crit line for almost all of those traits so you have a base 14% crit usually or just use swap sigils right? Also most of that list is never used by anyone ever anyways so….

But really Forceful Greatsword on a condition build?

Why are we even trying to compare Dire to Soldiers? This just turns it into Power v Condition damage which doesn’t work because the damage and defenses against both is different?

If you run Soldiers and plan to kill anyone with it then you probably are running a crit chance modifier somewhere in your build like deathly perception, zephyr’s boon, arcane fury, thrill of the crime, furious retaliation, hidden killer, unsuspecting foe, focused mind.

Activation of any of those during your high damage rotations dramatically raises soldiers killing ability.

When unsuspecting foe was adept the common mace or hammer builds running around went to only 30% chance to crit+ sor + unsuspecting foe = 100% chance to crit.

This is like taking a Ele with Zephyr’s boon attacking the golem during testing but not activating a aura first.

You don’t expect a condition user to use weapons that don’t apply conditions to prove his point that conditions aren’t OP so why assume a person isn’t grabbing crit modifiers in a Soldier build to prove Soldiers is weaker then dire.

Using Soldiers v Dire is flawed from the start because the main damage types are totally different I mean they are nothing alike at all. To many variables in the build making process and on top trying to compare 2 totally different damage types.

glaphen.5230:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQFAGiAiUAAAA-zEBBYhApoFRjVdDTHjIqGA-w
49% with 20 points in Curses, going in 30 is a huge waste and the only precision runes that are worth it is 2 Lyssa for the condition duration and that gives a whole 1%.

Theres something broken with that calculator. Turns out I have 44% crit, not 45% (I did say about 45%, however.) using rabid weapons and trinkets with dire armor. I only have 20 points in curses.

glaphen.5230:

A Dire build will ALWAYS out damage a Soldiers build and you realize that you just put 20 points into a crit line for almost all of those traits so you have a base 14% crit usually or just use swap sigils right? Also most of that list is never used by anyone ever anyways so….

But really Forceful Greatsword on a condition build?

This is just wrong. There are been multiple DPS tests done by people on these forums, with hard numbers as well as in game tests, that consistently prove that when talking Soldiers vs Dire, soldiers always beats dire in DPS.

Have to agree with coglin.. people just dont coutner conditions correctly in most cases.

They dont build in enough removal, and even if they do, they dont react correctly when fighting against condition builds. If you are vs a condition build and you have 3-4 of ANY condition on you, you need to treat that is if you just took a 5-8k crit from a direct damage build and back off (or do some form of defensive action), but people dont do that most of the time. People just blindly attack until they have 8 conditions with huge stacks on them before realising they are in trouble, and by then it is far FAR to late.

I’ve played condition builds a lot and know how they work, but in all my builds I also take relatively little condition removal which means I know what its like to have to deal with conditions myself. Its not any harder than dealing with a direct damage build, it just requires knowledge of how your opponent will try to get conditions on you and from that how to deal with it.

Sons.5493:

There’s no real need to explain why condition build are so terrible unbalanced.

You’re essentially doing a Begging the Question here.
You start with the idea that conditions are overpowered, then you talk a bit about why you can’t do anything about them, to arrive at the conclusion that they’re overpowered.

How about you remove this starting line, and instead build a case?

Well this a test of dire vs soldier:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Personally I don’t put all my eggs in one basket, and I go hybrid.

Anyway, not a lot of people have done math on the issue. What most people get is the tooltip, and that is misleading to a large degree. The tooltip assumes 2600 armor, and since the minimum is 1836, this means it can be up to 41.6% higher.

So, with that in mind, I’m going to make an arbitrary comparison between a guardian’s auto attack with his sword, and a Necromancer’s auto attack with their scepter. This is assuming a few things: Full PVT / MVT gear, exotic level gear, 300 in the relevant damage stat, and an appropriate rune/sigil. Off-hand weapon will not be considered. So, in full PVT/MVT we get the following bonuses:

Guardian:

Vitality: 698
Toughness: 698
Power: 1003 from gear + 165 from rune + 300 from stats = 1,468 Power
Runes of the Ogre bonus: 4% damage increase
Sigil of Force bonus: 5% damage increase

Total effective power: (916 + 1468) x 1.04 × 1.05 = 2603 power

Necromancer:
Vitality: 698
Toughness: 748
Malice: 1003 (from gear) + 300 (from stats) + 183 (from runes) + 83 (run undead bonus) = 1569
Total Malice with Sigil of Bursting: 1663

At 1663 condition damage, bleed does about 126 per tick, and poison does about 250 per tick. This means that the necromancer’s scepter auto chain will do 4 (126) x 2 + 4 (250) = 2008 damage over the course of 7 seconds (3 seconds to initialize the damage, 4 for the poison to tick). If you want to get technical, the motions to inflict all the damage is done in 3 seconds, so we’ll just go with that. Note that the auto attack also has a direct damage component (118 + 118 + 168), so the real total damage comes to 2,421 in 3(+4) seconds, factoring in crit chance and crit damage.

At 2603 power, the sword auto attack will do 764 × 2 +1,432 damage, or 2,960 damage in 2.5 seconds. Now, this isn’t assuming any crits, but if we factor in a 4% crit chance along with a 1.53 crit damage, we will get a further 2% increase, or about 3023 damage in 2.5 seconds.

This tooltip damage is also assuming 2600 armor. That is actually more than the necro has ATM (2584), but assuming we were fighting something like a GC mesmer, who would only have 1836 armor, then we would do 41.6% more damage, up to 4281 damage in 2.5 seconds. But, we’ll just go with the tooltip for now.

Ultimately, the guardian is doing more damage, doing it faster, doing it in power, and doing it while in heavily defensive gear. A lot of people constantly point at zerker gear, saying it is the only way to run a damage build. It really isn’t. I’ve been running a PVT guardian build in sPVP for a long time, and it does hit things quite kitten its own. One of my favorite things to do is just go around auto attacking people with the greatsword, since the combination of power + bulk means I’ll win the auto attack war. I’ve even played around with Valkyrie, which I recommend to many people, as it hits really kitten crits, and still has plenty of vitality for defense.

Those “builds” above are merely skeletons. The more modifiers you throw at it, the more things change up. But if you do throw modifiers on, you have to remember to do it to both classes: if you include trait abilities, you do it for both. If you include additional stats, you do it for both. If you include consumables, you do it for both.

Edit: header was not visible

This thread is just gross, on both sides of the issue.
Several facts:
1) Dire is worse DPS than soldiers by a significant amount, and this is indisputable.
2) However, one hit from a condition attack will generally do more total damage than an equivalent power attack (as a method of compensation for the time period that damage happens over as well as the increase in mitigation).
3) Conditions in general tend to be harder to avoid, either because of passive crit procs (can’t dodge those) or because ranged conditions tend to be less avoidable than their physical counterparts (excluding hybrids, as those aren’t quite relevant and tend to be extremely telegraphed)- compare ele fire staff #3 to #2.

The final reason is why conditions are so prevalent in small-scale pvp, in that while conditions hit less hard, they are far more reliable which makes them a very solid choice.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

2) However, one hit from a condition attack will generally do more total damage than an equivalent power attack (as a method of compensation for the time period that damage happens over as well as the increase in mitigation).
3) Conditions in general tend to be harder to avoid, either because of passive crit procs (can’t dodge those) or because ranged conditions tend to be less avoidable than their physical counterparts (excluding hybrids, as those aren’t quite relevant and tend to be extremely telegraphed)- compare ele fire staff #3 to #2.

It’s a big psychological thing I think.
People don’t notice when they are about to lose 75% of their life. They do notice if they lose 75% right away.

As a result, we react much better against incoming direct damage than condition damage. Despite the latter being so much easier to counteract.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

This thread is just gross, on both sides of the issue.
Several facts:
1) Dire is worse DPS than soldiers by a significant amount, and this is indisputable.
2) However, one hit from a condition attack will generally do more total damage than an equivalent power attack (as a method of compensation for the time period that damage happens over as well as the increase in mitigation).
3) Conditions in general tend to be harder to avoid, either because of passive crit procs (can’t dodge those) or because ranged conditions tend to be less avoidable than their physical counterparts (excluding hybrids, as those aren’t quite relevant and tend to be extremely telegraphed)- compare ele fire staff #3 to #2.

The final reason is why conditions are so prevalent in small-scale pvp, in that while conditions hit less hard, they are far more reliable which makes them a very solid choice.

Doesn’t your 2,3 and final reason assume that they will run their full course? If you miss the dodge to avoid the application you have 2 choices either cleanse or heal through it. If you miss the dodge against direct damage your only choice is to heal it back.

If I have 1000 HP left but a cleanse available and catch 5 stacks of bleeds ticking at 100 I cleanse after the first tick I have 500 HP if my 6k heal is also up I go back up to 6.5k HP. If I have 1000 HP left and my cleanse and heal up and get hit with a 1001 direct damage attack I’m dead.

Perhaps a UI change would help, shading the portion of your health bar that would be depleted if the conditions run their course?

Conditional damage from torment and confusion make this a little harder to implement than it otherwise might be, but it could just project the damage done if the player carries on doing what they are doing.

I for one cannot wait for the feature patch. I already have few professions that are able to achieve high uptime of confusion, torment, retaliation and other typical conditions which means I will punish enemies for using skills, moving and attacking me, basically for playing. Condition bunkers at its best.

Kravick.4906:

Jackums.3496:

Tim.6450:

well I have some news for you:

good news is that condition damage requires three stats for full damage namely condition damage , condition duration and precision.

No. It only needs condition damage. Condition duration can be attained solely through consumables, stacks, and trait line bonuses. Power professions can’t attain all of their power, precision, or critical damage via those outlets. They have to invest those stats in their equipment, which conditions builds do not. You can go pure Dire with a condition spec, and then get everything else you may want (ie. condition duration) purely from one-off and/or cheaper methods that you don’t need to invest in.

It’s hardly balanced between the two.

This is incorrect, on all accounts. Every class, except thief, have traits, or conditional effects that proc conditions based on critical hits. Yes, a necromancer can go full dire, but they’ll do considerably less damage than one who goes full rabid. Condition duration is also necessary to maximize this damage. A necromancer with zero condition duration is lucky to go beyond 12-14 stacks of bleeds (which still does far less damage than someone in full PTV as already proven in this thread). It requires condition duration, and precision, to stack any more.

No. The defensive stats gained from running Dire greatly out-weighs the minimal additional on-proc bonuses of the crit-based outlets, with the exception of Dhuumfire/Incendiary Powder; which requires little precision as both have a 10 sec CD.

Condition specs do damage over time. They don’t instantly burst down a target like a Thief or Mesmer running a power build. Therefore they rely on their ability to survive to be fully effective. Dire gear is objectively the best stat combination for that in PvP game modes. Condition duration is attained through trait lines and food (Rare Veggie Pizza). Precision, if you really want it, is also easy to attain through consumables and sigil stacks.

They’re worlds apart. Don’t compare power build investment to condition build investment, because it’s laughable. Condition builds can attain near maximum damage output whilst also achieving bunker-like defensive stats. Power builds can’t even come close with the mandatory heavy investment in three separate stats.

Let me first stress I’m not specifically talking about the OP, but if anything, I feel PvE could have done a better job at teaching players about conditions. If anything is skewed it’s the DPS meta in PvE where you can ignore conditions completely. Compared to PvE, I would say DPS and conditions are better balanced in WvW and PvP.

I don’t say they are balanced in 1v1 situations, and I don’t say 1 build works everywhere (as in PvE). What I do say is that DPS and conditions fill different purposes, and we should play accordingly. No-one think it’s strange melee and ranged weapons fill different purposes.

Neurophen.9738:

Perhaps a UI change would help, shading the portion of your health bar that would be depleted if the conditions run their course?

Conditional damage from torment and confusion make this a little harder to implement than it otherwise might be, but it could just project the damage done if the player carries on doing what they are doing.

Problem with this would be blood is power, and other such examples that bleed for a REALLY long time. Your bar would show you essentially dead even though you were ticking at ~330 per second.

The system would need to look at a window, say 5-10 seconds out, and show your HP bar accordingly with a sliding window.

I agree it would be an intersting idea, and certainly would cause less tears. Most of the time people don’t pay attention to conditions.

As to the OP, since I use conditions I am biased, but I can tell you thieves that know what they are doing have figured it out. There aren’t many out there, but the good ones already know how to deal with conditions and harbor no resentment to the classes that were left with crap power options.

Tim laid out the numbers but I’m sure people will ignore his post and keep saying dire out dps’s soldiers etc etc.

oZii.2864:

Tim laid out the numbers but I’m sure people will ignore his post and keep saying dire out dps’s soldiers etc etc.

I do not take credit for this, this is a part of Blood Red Arachnid’s post. It seems I accidently hid the header. A mistake I will rectify.

Jackums.3496:

No. The defensive stats gained from running Dire greatly out-weighs the minimal additional on-proc bonuses of the crit-based outlets, with the exception of Dhuumfire/Incendiary Powder; which requires little precision as both have a 10 sec CD.

Condition specs do damage over time. They don’t instantly burst down a target like a Thief or Mesmer running a power build. Therefore they rely on their ability to survive to be fully effective. Dire gear is objectively the best stat combination for that in PvP game modes. Condition duration is attained through trait lines and food (Rare Veggie Pizza). Precision, if you really want it, is also easy to attain through consumables and sigil stacks.

They’re worlds apart. Don’t compare power build investment to condition build investment, because it’s laughable. Condition builds can attain near maximum damage output whilst also achieving bunker-like defensive stats. Power builds can’t even come close with the mandatory heavy investment in three separate stats.

Your sig says you have a mesmer why not go run around in dire gear as a pu mesmer and run around in rabid as a pu mesmer. I have a mesmer and I would never even think about throwing dire gear on it because the loss of bleeds via sharper images drops your dps by alot.

Your running duelist on your mesmer in a condi build. You have 14% chance to crit because you went full dire your duelist has a 1% chance to cause a bleed during it’s attack 34%(with phantasmal fury) = 2.72%.

It is very hard to kill anyone decent with on death traits alone even if your running staff clones it will still take a long time to kill someone with 14% crit chance.

oZii.2864:

Jackums.3496:

No. The defensive stats gained from running Dire greatly out-weighs the minimal additional on-proc bonuses of the crit-based outlets, with the exception of Dhuumfire/Incendiary Powder; which requires little precision as both have a 10 sec CD.

Condition specs do damage over time. They don’t instantly burst down a target like a Thief or Mesmer running a power build. Therefore they rely on their ability to survive to be fully effective. Dire gear is objectively the best stat combination for that in PvP game modes. Condition duration is attained through trait lines and food (Rare Veggie Pizza). Precision, if you really want it, is also easy to attain through consumables and sigil stacks.

They’re worlds apart. Don’t compare power build investment to condition build investment, because it’s laughable. Condition builds can attain near maximum damage output whilst also achieving bunker-like defensive stats. Power builds can’t even come close with the mandatory heavy investment in three separate stats.

Your sig says you have a mesmer why not go run around in dire gear as a pu mesmer and run around in rabid as a pu mesmer. I have a mesmer and I would never even think about throwing dire gear on it because the loss of bleeds via sharper images drops your dps by alot.

Your running duelist on your mesmer in a condi build. You have 14% chance to crit because you went full dire your duelist has a 1% chance to cause a bleed during it’s attack 34%(with phantasmal fury) = 2.72%.

It is very hard to kill anyone decent with on death traits alone even if your running staff clones it will still take a long time to kill someone with 14% crit chance.

^This.
If you think going full dire on a mesmer is going to yield more DPS and conditions than a full rabid or rampager mesmer you’re doing wrong..

Tim.6450:

Well this a test of dire vs soldier:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Personally I don’t put all my eggs in one basket, and I go hybrid.

Anyway, not a lot of people have done math on the issue. What most people get is the tooltip, and that is misleading to a large degree. The tooltip assumes 2600 armor, and since the minimum is 1836, this means it can be up to 41.6% higher.

So, with that in mind, I’m going to make an arbitrary comparison between a guardian’s auto attack with his sword, and a Necromancer’s auto attack with their scepter. This is assuming a few things: Full PVT / MVT gear, exotic level gear, 300 in the relevant damage stat, and an appropriate rune/sigil. Off-hand weapon will not be considered. So, in full PVT/MVT we get the following bonuses:

Guardian:

Vitality: 698
Toughness: 698
Power: 1003 from gear + 165 from rune + 300 from stats = 1,468 Power
Runes of the Ogre bonus: 4% damage increase
Sigil of Force bonus: 5% damage increase

Total effective power: (916 + 1468) x 1.04 × 1.05 = 2603 power

Necromancer:
Vitality: 698
Toughness: 748
Malice: 1003 (from gear) + 300 (from stats) + 183 (from runes) + 83 (run undead bonus) = 1569
Total Malice with Sigil of Bursting: 1663

At 1663 condition damage, bleed does about 126 per tick, and poison does about 250 per tick. This means that the necromancer’s scepter auto chain will do 4 (126) x 2 + 4 (250) = 2008 damage over the course of 7 seconds (3 seconds to initialize the damage, 4 for the poison to tick). If you want to get technical, the motions to inflict all the damage is done in 3 seconds, so we’ll just go with that. Note that the auto attack also has a direct damage component (118 + 118 + 168), so the real total damage comes to 2,421 in 3(+4) seconds, factoring in crit chance and crit damage.

At 2603 power, the sword auto attack will do 764 × 2 +1,432 damage, or 2,960 damage in 2.5 seconds. Now, this isn’t assuming any crits, but if we factor in a 4% crit chance along with a 1.53 crit damage, we will get a further 2% increase, or about 3023 damage in 2.5 seconds.

This tooltip damage is also assuming 2600 armor. That is actually more than the necro has ATM (2584), but assuming we were fighting something like a GC mesmer, who would only have 1836 armor, then we would do 41.6% more damage, up to 4281 damage in 2.5 seconds. But, we’ll just go with the tooltip for now.

Ultimately, the guardian is doing more damage, doing it faster, doing it in power, and doing it while in heavily defensive gear. A lot of people constantly point at zerker gear, saying it is the only way to run a damage build. It really isn’t. I’ve been running a PVT guardian build in sPVP for a long time, and it does hit things quite kitten its own. One of my favorite things to do is just go around auto attacking people with the greatsword, since the combination of power + bulk means I’ll win the auto attack war. I’ve even played around with Valkyrie, which I recommend to many people, as it hits really kitten crits, and still has plenty of vitality for defense.

Those “builds” above are merely skeletons. The more modifiers you throw at it, the more things change up. But if you do throw modifiers on, you have to remember to do it to both classes: if you include trait abilities, you do it for both. If you include additional stats, you do it for both. If you include consumables, you do it for both.

Edit: header was not visible

Can someone tell me who stands in melee range of a Guardian sword auto attacks? News flash, Guardians lack cripple and chill and a Necromancer can put cripple permanently on them with just Flesh Golem. Dark Path and Chillblains are permanent chill with 100% condition duration. If they are removing those to be reapplied fast they aren’t removing damaging conditions either. The only time the Necromancer would possibly ever need to dodge is after Flashing Blade and Leap of Faith while hes kiting him and surprise Guardians lack weakness too so the Necromancer gets 1 dodge per 10 seconds which is more than enough.

Solori.6025:

oZii.2864:

Jackums.3496:

No. The defensive stats gained from running Dire greatly out-weighs the minimal additional on-proc bonuses of the crit-based outlets, with the exception of Dhuumfire/Incendiary Powder; which requires little precision as both have a 10 sec CD.

Condition specs do damage over time. They don’t instantly burst down a target like a Thief or Mesmer running a power build. Therefore they rely on their ability to survive to be fully effective. Dire gear is objectively the best stat combination for that in PvP game modes. Condition duration is attained through trait lines and food (Rare Veggie Pizza). Precision, if you really want it, is also easy to attain through consumables and sigil stacks.

They’re worlds apart. Don’t compare power build investment to condition build investment, because it’s laughable. Condition builds can attain near maximum damage output whilst also achieving bunker-like defensive stats. Power builds can’t even come close with the mandatory heavy investment in three separate stats.

Your sig says you have a mesmer why not go run around in dire gear as a pu mesmer and run around in rabid as a pu mesmer. I have a mesmer and I would never even think about throwing dire gear on it because the loss of bleeds via sharper images drops your dps by alot.

Your running duelist on your mesmer in a condi build. You have 14% chance to crit because you went full dire your duelist has a 1% chance to cause a bleed during it’s attack 34%(with phantasmal fury) = 2.72%.

It is very hard to kill anyone decent with on death traits alone even if your running staff clones it will still take a long time to kill someone with 14% crit chance.

^This.
If you think going full dire on a mesmer is going to yield more DPS and conditions than a full rabid or rampager mesmer you’re doing wrong..

Well Mesmer condition builds are terrible besides the one I already mentioned with Rampagers anyways so what is your point?

coglin.1867:

Sons.5493:

There’s no real need to explain why condition build are so terrible unbalanced.

Actually there is. As the educated players have all seen the skill damage comparisons and videos proving that in most cases direct damage builds out damage condition builds. I am going to guess your making this blind accusation after having run zero test and no damage comparisons what so ever. I suggest doing it in soldiers compared to dire as I and other have already done, broken down, videod, and posted.

Sons.5493:

It taked 1 stat to max out damage and the other 2 can be ba directed towards tankiness while direct damage users need, power, precision AND critical damage to proc our best output in sacriface of all survival whatsoever.

This is actually untrue. I challenge you to prove your claims. Take the top damage builds in soldiers gear (only takes 1 stat for damage and the exact same two defensive stats). Hopefully in trying, you will learn for yourself what so many others have learned, tested, and posted, long ago.

Sons.5493:

As a thief player there’s not enough cond removal in any kind of build which can remove all the condition that condition build can apply (and re-apply cus why not) other than heavily investing in a trait line that i may or may not feel like traiting in just to counter game imbalances. That’s the reality of gw2.

Shadow Step/Return and Shadows Embrace are the best bet for thief. As a profession they are one of the lesser for condition removal, but that is in the inherent design of the profession. Condition applying skills are as easy to dodge as any other skill, just as hard to apply as direct damage skills when in stealth. There are some other professions with just as bad condition removal.

Sons.5493:

Anyone who denies how conditions are completly broken in this game on all classes going from Thief, mesmer, engie (broken as kitten k bye) Necro and warrior (also gg broken), is purely lying to himself or is a condition user himself.

That is not a very well thought out argument. Anyone who claims this has simply tested it and knows that it is actually a fact that direct damage builds have higher damage out put then conditions, and this is based on test and damage break downs in equivalent off/def stated gear.

Perhaps you should actually do a test yourself, and know some facts before you make such uninformed comments.

I like how in every thread you pop up and reference these " educated skill damage comparisons " but in NONE of these threads have you ever bothered posting them in order to back yourself up.

Honestly I’m beginning to ask myself if it’s not just easier to make similar claims and roll with it – as it seems to be working out quite well.

You’re always asking others to " prove " themselves yet you’ve never provided evidence to counter any point being made.

IF you’re right and he’s wrong – prove him wrong. Simple as that.

The only issue with conditions is the rate at which they can be applied. All the cleansing in the world isn’t going to save you from some cheesy necro using signet of spite.

Kravick.4906:

glaphen.5230:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQFAGiAiUAAAA-zEBBYhApoFRjVdDTHjIqGA-w
49% with 20 points in Curses, going in 30 is a huge waste and the only precision runes that are worth it is 2 Lyssa for the condition duration and that gives a whole 1%.

Theres something broken with that calculator. Turns out I have 44% crit, not 45% (I did say about 45%, however.) using rabid weapons and trinkets with dire armor. I only have 20 points in curses.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQFAGiAiUAAAA-zUBBYhAZqFRjtsmIaUdDTHjIqOAACA7MIAIB-w

There we go.

Any self-respecting roamer in WvW avoids condition builds.

power does more damage than conditions.
a power build can easily do 5k dps while most condition build are lucky to do 2-3k dps before their conditions are cleansed then they have to rebuild those stacks.

glaphen.5230:

Can someone tell me who stands in melee range of a Guardian sword auto attacks? News flash, Guardians lack cripple and chill and a Necromancer can put cripple permanently on them with just Flesh Golem. Dark Path and Chillblains are permanent chill with 100% condition duration. If they are removing those to be reapplied fast they aren’t removing damaging conditions either. The only time the Necromancer would possibly ever need to dodge is after Flashing Blade and Leap of Faith while hes kiting him and surprise Guardians lack weakness too so the Necromancer gets 1 dodge per 10 seconds which is more than enough.

If that is your argument then it’s obvious you are just making wild claims. The concept of a proper Dps calculation escapes you. You will throw in every variable to help your argument.

Really you can’t grasps a proper Dps test of dire v soldier?

If you can’t then your just another “I don’t like it nerf please player”.

You look silly bring up variables we can’t account for like common sense! We can’t math common sense because we don’t know how everyone plays saying player 1 will dodge attack 1 but not 2 is something you can’t prove by facts.

You might suck and get hit with zealous blade but not the auto attack. We can’t account for you sucking.

Nobody knows what your skill level is and if you know what to avoid and what not to avoid. Your projecting how you would fight probably against yourself this tells us nothing about dire v soldier or the value of precision. It just gives us insight in how you look at the skills of guardian and necro that’s all.

oZii.2864:

glaphen.5230:

Can someone tell me who stands in melee range of a Guardian sword auto attacks? News flash, Guardians lack cripple and chill and a Necromancer can put cripple permanently on them with just Flesh Golem. Dark Path and Chillblains are permanent chill with 100% condition duration. If they are removing those to be reapplied fast they aren’t removing damaging conditions either. The only time the Necromancer would possibly ever need to dodge is after Flashing Blade and Leap of Faith while hes kiting him and surprise Guardians lack weakness too so the Necromancer gets 1 dodge per 10 seconds which is more than enough.

If that is your argument then it’s obvious you are just making wild claims. The concept of a proper Dps calculation escapes you. You will throw in every variable to help your argument.

Really you can’t grasps a proper Dps test of dire v soldier?

If you can’t then your just another “I don’t like it nerf please player”.

You look silly bring up variables we can’t account for like common sense! We can’t math common sense because we don’t know how everyone plays saying player 1 will dodge attack 1 but not 2 is something you can’t prove by facts.

You might suck and get hit with zealous blade but not the auto attack. We can’t account for you sucking.

Nobody knows what your skill level is and if you know what to avoid and what not to avoid. Your projecting how you would would fight probably against yourself that tells us nothing about dire v soldier or the value of precision. It just gives us insight in how you look at the skills of guardian and necro that’s all.

Because a dps test of ridiculous circumstances isn’t worth kitten. No one with a working keyboard or mouse should die to a melee Guardian with a condition build since every class besides Guardian has spammable cripple or chill with their conditions.

glaphen.5230:

Because a dps test of ridiculous circumstances isn’t worth kitten. No one with a working keyboard or mouse should die to a melee Guardian with a condition build since every class besides Guardian has spammable cripple or chill with their conditions.

Yet you are okay claiming they sit in melee range of say an engineer using bomb kit. Or that the 2 second bleed of the pistol is OP too. Brilliant sir.

Harper.4173:

I like how in every thread you pop up and reference these " educated skill damage comparisons " but in NONE of these threads have you ever bothered posting them in order to back yourself up.

Really, so the 32 videos (2 power and 2 condi builds for each profession) and Full damage comparison spread sheet do not exist now. Or the multiple others who have posted similar? I will gladly relink some here. All you have to do in return is video 2 soldiers gear and 2 dire gear videos of your own, comparing the damage. It will hep you learn for yourself. Had you actually done this before you spoke out of a lack of understanding of the compared damage in the first place, you wouldn’t have this confusion.

Harper.4173:

You’re always asking others to " prove " themselves yet you’ve never provided evidence to counter any point being made.

Your absolutely right. No one on the entire forums, or even internet for that matter has ever posted a video, spread sheet or build to build damage comparison. We all no players never ever do this in video games. Nothing of the sort has ever been posted here, on twitch, you tube, or other forums like guru or anything.

I will concede to you, so that you may thoroughly enjoy your blissful ignorance and continue to spam the forums with untested and inexperienced claims while I continue my fun in WvW doing what you claim over and over is not true.

You win the internet.

coglin.1867:

Harper.4173:

I like how in every thread you pop up and reference these " educated skill damage comparisons " but in NONE of these threads have you ever bothered posting them in order to back yourself up.

Really, so the 32 videos (2 power and 2 condi builds for each profession) and Full damage comparison spread sheet do not exist now. Or the multiple others who have posted similar? I will gladly relink some here. All you have to do in return is video 2 soldiers gear and 2 dire gear videos of your own, comparing the damage. It will hep you learn for yourself. Had you actually done this before you spoke out of a lack of understanding of the compared damage in the first place, you wouldn’t have this confusion.

Harper.4173:

You’re always asking others to " prove " themselves yet you’ve never provided evidence to counter any point being made.

Your absolutely right. No one on the entire forums, or even internet for that matter has ever posted a video, spread sheet or build to build damage comparison. We all no players never ever do this in video games. Nothing of the sort has ever been posted here, on twitch, you tube, or other forums like guru or anything.

I will concede to you, so that you may thoroughly enjoy your blissful ignorance and continue to spam the forums with untested and inexperienced claims while I continue my fun in WvW doing what you claim over and over is not true.

You win the internet.

As I’ve been saying in all PMs you’ve been writing me post a single link from anyone.