Guild Wars 2

As the title might suggest, I believe that the confusion nerf in PvP and WvW is too much. I understand the overpoweredness that came with the original confusion damage, however I believe that the nerf underwhelmed the condition which was/is one of the main mechanics of mesmers. Thus, a middle ground; Simply make it 2/3 of the original, non-nerfed damage. It’s closer to 1/2 than the actual midpoint between the halved and whole confusion damage, but I believe this is the small push it needs to make confusion builds viable again.

Dondagora.9645:

As the title might suggest, I believe that the confusion nerf in PvP and WvW is too much. I understand the overpoweredness that came with the original confusion damage, however I believe that the nerf underwhelmed the condition which was/is one of the main mechanics of mesmers. Thus, a middle ground; Simply make it 2/3 of the original, non-nerfed damage. It’s closer to 1/2 than the actual midpoint between the halved and whole confusion damage, but I believe this is the small push it needs to make confusion builds viable again.

Runes of Perplexity kill any buff to confusion. When someone can easily get 10 stacks of confusion solo, you can’t buff their current damage.

Yeah, those Runes are truly terrible. They’re 2x as strong as class-based Confusion, due to reliability and ease of access, plus superior base duration. And to get the +duration, you need the runes, so you’re walking in circles.

Bleh.

That would not really shake the mesmer meta in PvP that much, I believe.

But it would buff condispam engineer even more, passing the ceiling this time

@Rym
Or, as you said, Runes and Sigils which duplicate or supplant class design elements need to be removed entirely.
I don’t think a nerf would be enough either. If Confusion is supposed to be mostly a Mesmer-condition, then there shouldn’t be runes with +45% duration (which takes any class-based duration or trait ad absurdum) or multiple procs applying it.
The same goes for any other runeset like that. Yes, strong set bonuses are fun, but it’s crazy because we all got access to all…

Hrm…

Or, Runes and Sigils partially become per-class.

I would certainly love to see confusion focused Mesmer builds revived at some point. I think a flat damage increase would probably make things a bit ridiculous with the existence of perplexity runes though.

It would probably be better for Anet to reverse the ICD of Blinding Befuddlement and up the Confusing Enchantment stacks from 1 to 2, to revive those heavy trait investment builds. Anet could even introduce a Grandmaster trait that increases confusion damage by 25% in a similar vein to Poison Master on Ranger. It could even replace Disruptor’s Sustainment which is as unnecessary and redundant as Grandmaster traits get.

Carighan.6758:

If Confusion is supposed to be mostly a Mesmer-condition, then there shouldn’t be runes with +45% duration (which takes any class-based duration or trait ad absurdum) or multiple procs applying it.

It’s isn’t. Engineers have access to quite a bit of confusion without the runes, FYI. And the +45% duration doesn’t actually work as far as I have found. If you are having problems fighting an engineer with these runes, you should kitten your placement, condition management, and conflict size. In small fights, prioritize cleanses for the confusion procs, and use your own knockbacks or stuns, in larger fights, stick close to eles and guards for the AoE cleanses.

Also, try not to spam a bunch of skills when you see the confusion stack.

That said, I agree that the buff is unnecessary, it would be more useful if the condition scaled with the skill in some way, though, as should retaliation.

Please use the word “consider” in place of “kitten” above…

Simonoly.4352:

It would probably be better for Anet to reverse the ICD of Blinding Befuddlement and up the Confusing Enchantment stacks from 1 to 2, to revive those heavy trait investment builds. Anet could even introduce a Grandmaster trait that increases confusion damage by 25% in a similar vein to Poison Master on Ranger. It could even replace Disruptor’s Sustainment which is as unnecessary and redundant as Grandmaster traits get.

This could work. Hell, BB should have never been nerfed in the first place. And I won’t argue against useful Traits.

It censors should consider your?

Confusion is already the best condition in the game along with a necromancer’s terror fear. Both are offensive and defensive at the same time.

The negative only change I’d do for confusion is removing its effect on autoattacks, since you need to hit esc, deselect or use stealth to stop atacking and that’s annoying, because if you get a lag hit the client will keep attacking even if you would have stopped, and disabling/enabling autoattack can get annoying too.

After #1 skills are no longer affected or less affected by confusion, its damage could even increase for the rest of the skills.

Confusion should have been mesmer-only in the first place. Why other classes have access to it I have no idea.

Hrm, that’s an interesting idea, make Confusion much stronger, but make it not affect Autoattacks.

Carighan.6758:

Hrm, that’s an interesting idea, make Confusion much stronger, but make it not affect Autoattacks.

Torment works on non-moving targets, but doubles its damage against moving ones, so I’d rather go with something like “every X #1 skill uses, Y damage” or Y being a fraction of the upgraded confusion damage and affecting every single autoattack.

While making AAs unafected by confusion seems like a good idea, it would actually make the condition a bit meaningles unless you increase its duration (so that the player is forced to use other skills, but this could end up pretty hard to balance) since they could simply spam AAs mindlessly, which is, imo, the kind of behaviour/response confusion is supposed to prevent.

Korossive.7085:

Confusion should have been mesmer-only in the first place. Why other classes have access to it I have no idea.

Soooo, Thieves should be the only class to have blinds? Guardians the only to have fire? Necros the only to have poison? Warriors the only to have bleeds? Eles the only to have chill?

Maybe you could provide a reasonable argument for your statement to be more clear.

Confusion is overpowered in its current implementation. The entire condition would probably need to be changed in order for it to be improved damage wise.

For example… instead of making it deal damage for each hit you did while under the affects of confusion, confusion was simply changed to deal all the damage on the next hit and the condition was dropped once damage was done forcing you to restack.

This way the person with the condition on them isn’t forced to stop playing and the person who applied the condition is rewarded for putting effort into their play by stacking the condition up higher.

Of course this would have to come with a change to the more passive ways of applying confusion like perplexity.

lunyboy.8672:

Korossive.7085:

Confusion should have been mesmer-only in the first place. Why other classes have access to it I have no idea.

Soooo, Thieves should be the only class to have blinds? Guardians the only to have fire? Necros the only to have poison? Warriors the only to have bleeds? Eles the only to have chill?

Maybe you could provide a reasonable argument for your statement to be more clear.

Call me crazy, but I love asymmetry. If certain conditions were limited to 1-2 classes, and the game was designed around it appropriately, this limitation could make team comps more interesting in their potential to bring different tools to the table.

If they really dropped the hammer on condition availability and designed around it, conditions would no longer feel “spammy”, because they are universally being applied purposefully instead of just being applied for damage’s sake.

That’s a road that would require an entire redesign to go down, but I really don’t think it’s without merit.

Carighan.6758:

If Confusion is supposed to be mostly a Mesmer-condition

The problem with this is the fact a condition should NOT be a class only condition, that is unless EVERY class gets a condition that only that class has access to. Why should one class get a condition that no other class gets access to unless they get something themselves?

Though, if Mesmer gets and keeps Confusion – what would the other classes get? Lets not forget, Confusion is VERY Powerful so the conditions the other classes get would have to be just as powerful but not to the point they determine who will win. Confusion can be the decider especially when you combine Perplexity with specific classes – Warrior and the Confusion Trait, Engineer and Mesmer can all be very strong with it.

Though i would love it if each class got a condition that it had but no other class had access to, it would be very hard to balance though and that is why i don’t think it will happen because lets be honest this is Anet…

There is no reason to make “autoattacks” immune to confusion. If you get hit by a sizeable application of confusion an appropriate response is to stop attacking.

The spell that was intended to punish single high burst skills (Backfire) never made it into the game. Among other things confusion is intended to punish repeated skill use, it’s one of the reasons why it’s there. (For Mesmers it is also a means of survival).

Gizuko.5734:

While making AAs unafected by confusion seems like a good idea, it would actually make the condition a bit meaningles unless you increase its duration (so that the player is forced to use other skills, but this could end up pretty hard to balance) since they could simply spam AAs mindlessly, which is, imo, the kind of behaviour/response confusion is supposed to prevent.

Hrm, so in summary, something like:

• Confusion gets 100% more damage.
• Confusion lasts 100% longer.
• Confusion no longer affects AA-skills or (for PvE simplicity) any non-player kit skills.

This’d be interesting. Confusion would be genuinely able to soft-force you to AA only. Which is a lot of lost potential. The first two changes, assuming the third doesn’t work on NPCs, would also make it somewhat useful in PvE.

Carighan.6758:

Hrm, so in summary, something like:

• Confusion gets 100% more damage.
• Confusion lasts 100% longer.
• Confusion no longer affects AA-skills or (for PvE simplicity) any non-player kit skills.

This’d be interesting. Confusion would be genuinely able to soft-force you to AA only. Which is a lot of lost potential. The first two changes, assuming the third doesn’t work on NPCs, would also make it somewhat useful in PvE.

That would be SO insanely overpowered. I get 2k procs from Confusion as it is that that is from just the Runeset. Imagine a Hammer stun spamming warrior with the Runeset and the trait. Imagine a Engineer with Bomb kit, Tool Kit and Pistol/X.

Damage should NOT be increased by 100% not at all, it doesnt matter if it doesnt work on Auto attack. using a HEAL would deal SO much damage to you that in some heals it would actually out damage the heal…

The same goes for thinking it would be balanced making Confusion last twice as long. Take a look at the Warrior Trait, That alone is 8 seconds long without food. This again would be an insanely overpowered change.

Ah, I forgot an important point, sorry, my bad:

• Runes of Perplexity removed. They just cause Engineers and Warriors to be tons better at confusion than Mesmers originally ever were, and they’re the source of 90%+ of the confusion whining.

Carighan.6758:

Ah, I forgot an important point, sorry, my bad:

• Runes of Perplexity removed. They just cause Engineers and Warriors to be tons better at confusion than Mesmers originally ever were, and they’re the source of 90%+ of the confusion whining.

In my opinion. Remove Confusion from Warriors and Engineers altogether. Maybe keep the Runeset as a slightly more nerfed Mesmer only runeset.

Then give all classes access to a condition only they have access to (with a Runeset)

We have Torment already which i kind of think should be a class specific condition, not sure which class. Maybe Necromancer only condition? Thus we would need to remove the Sigil of Torment.

As for other classes not sure what they could get, They would be conditions that work for the class as well as being strong enough when compared to the other class specific conditions.

lunyboy.8672:

Korossive.7085:

Confusion should have been mesmer-only in the first place. Why other classes have access to it I have no idea.

Soooo, Thieves should be the only class to have blinds? Guardians the only to have fire? Necros the only to have poison? Warriors the only to have bleeds? Eles the only to have chill?

Maybe you could provide a reasonable argument for your statement to be more clear.

well confusion is sort of the whole gw1 mes hexes in a way, so confusion should be the main mes condition, which it is not anymore thanks to perplexity. mes already had a tough time stacking it if they werent going full glam build. when perplexity was introduced, confusion was easier to stack for all other professions and was even better with that one rune on another profession….
now it does make sense that other professions have some form of confusion just shouldt be able to stack it as well as mes, but if u wanna buff confusion again, perplexity 6 has to be removed so non confusion classes cant exploit it.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Carighan.6758:

Ah, I forgot an important point, sorry, my bad:

• Runes of Perplexity removed. They just cause Engineers and Warriors to be tons better at confusion than Mesmers originally ever were, and they’re the source of 90%+ of the confusion whining.

In my opinion. Remove Confusion from Warriors and Engineers altogether. Maybe keep the Runeset as a slightly more nerfed Mesmer only runeset.

Then give all classes access to a condition only they have access to (with a Runeset)

We have Torment already which i kind of think should be a class specific condition, not sure which class. Maybe Necromancer only condition? Thus we would need to remove the Sigil of Torment.

As for other classes not sure what they could get, They would be conditions that work for the class as well as being strong enough when compared to the other class specific conditions.

i think perplexity 6 would have to change the confusion on interrupt part. engis can just stack it wayyyy to good with this rune which doesnt make sense if confusion is a mesmers core mechanic/core condition.after glamour and confusion nerf, mes has nothing left to contribute in wvw raids anymore and confusion gave us a clear role which was punishing mindless spammers. confusion was the 1 thing that kept the massblobs from rushing everything without thinking.also during glam times people didnt focus so much on condi cleanse, thats why the glambombs were so strong.
dont forget a glam mesmer had to give up a lot to deal such dmg with confusion. no power, bad condi cleanse, bad defense, no pu of course. most of us did movve to pu cause thats the only thing we have left next to shatter.

selan.8354:

i think perplexity 6 would have to change the confusion on interrupt part. engis can just stack it wayyyy to good with this rune which doesnt make sense if confusion is a mesmers core mechanic/core condition.after glamour and confusion nerf, mes has nothing left to contribute in wvw raids anymore and confusion gave us a clear role which was punishing mindless spammers. confusion was the 1 thing that kept the massblobs from rushing everything without thinking.also during glam times people didnt focus so much on condi cleanse, thats why the glambombs were so strong.
dont forget a glam mesmer had to give up a lot to deal such dmg with confusion. no power, bad condi cleanse, bad defense, no pu of course. most of us did movve to pu cause thats the only thing we have left next to shatter.

If they went with the class specific conditions, they could change the 6/6 to be something Mesmer related.

All other classes would have Confusion removed, Engineer should never have been given so much access to it in the first place. The Warrior trait doesn’t seem to even have a cool down (could be wrong?)

Torment could become a Necromancer only condition with the Rune of Torment becoming Necromancer only with changes to it of course, the 6/6 would need to be changed that is for sure.

I am not sure if they could some of the existing conditions class specific, i mean Burning should be an ele only condition but SO many classes and skills use that it would be near impossible a change.

Would need conditions for Engineer, Warrior, Guardian, Thief, Ranger and Ele. That would be too much work for Anet and would knowing them end up seriously broken on some classes (guess would be Warrior, Thief) and really under powered on others (guess would be Ranger and ele) so it will never happen

well i dont mind other classes having some sort of access to confusion, just not as much that they can stack it like this. mes should be the one dominating confusion and yes necro should have more torment. torment does make sense on mes as in gw1 mes was the ultimate punishing class together with necro.making confusion on interrupts on a rune is bad design imo as we all know war engi are kings of interrupts.
i think anet really needs to focus on class specific roles in other gmae modes than stupid spvp 1v1 if they ever wanna balance this game.
gwen does have a lot to offer in almost every game mode and war doesnt even have a real weakness. cc doesnt affect them much, condis dont affect them much they have an insane mobility, massive healthpool, great toughness and great power….
other classes do have weaknesses. mes can stealth and has good combat mobility, but little to no stability, bad condi cleanse, terrible out of combat speed, no aoe, 1v1 single target skills only, nothing unique but veil, portal and tw…
what we are missing is the role we had when confusion was strong. we were the punishing class that slowed down zergs and was feared too. i mean my old guild was mainly mesmers and we were called mesmer deathsquad because we were strong with our glambombs…i understand that it needed to be shaved, but not nerfed the way it was.u cant just destroy one of our core mechanic along with a terrible trait nerf and then a few months later introduce a rune that does what glam mes used to be able to but better and with less effort. seriously i get that spvp players hate mesmers, but wvw mes suffers and i already rerolled as im tired of veilbotting!

We already have a concept of class-conditions and -boons.

It’s not hard-enforced, and the addition of sigils and runes negate much of it, but in theory, classes have different buffs and debuffs they provide far in excess of what other classes can do.

Examples:

• Warriors: Stability
• Mesmers: Confusion
• Guardians: Aegis. I would also add Burning, but that is sorta-shared with Elementalists.
• Rangers: Cripple/Immobilize (this rarely seems to be distinct much, classes which have a lot of one tend to have a lot of the other, too).
• Thieves: Blindness.
• Necros: Fear

But do keep in mind that we also have something like “secondary” classes. Engineers and Warriors – non-runeset – provide less Confusion than Mesmers but they can do it. Necromancers do Blind, Elementalists can provide half the conditions and boons under the sun but never all at the same time, etc, etc.

The concept is clearly there in the class design, buried deep down somewhere! It’s just that with runes and sigils, it became nearly meaningless.

Carighan.6758:

We already have a concept of class-conditions and -boons.

It’s not hard-enforced, and the addition of sigils and runes negate much of it, but in theory, classes have different buffs and debuffs they provide far in excess of what other classes can do.

Examples:

• Warriors: Stability
• Mesmers: Confusion
• Guardians: Aegis. I would also add Burning, but that is sorta-shared with Elementalists.
• Rangers: Cripple/Immobilize (this rarely seems to be distinct much, classes which have a lot of one tend to have a lot of the other, too).
• Thieves: Blindness.
• Necros: Fear

But do keep in mind that we also have something like “secondary” classes. Engineers and Warriors – non-runeset – provide less Confusion than Mesmers but they can do it. Necromancers do Blind, Elementalists can provide half the conditions and boons under the sun but never all at the same time, etc, etc.

The concept is clearly there in the class design, buried deep down somewhere! It’s just that with runes and sigils, it became nearly meaningless.

The concept is there, but much like everything else post-launch they decided to go another direction, which was wrong. The addition of torment to most classes was not needed. The addition of perplexity runes and torment sigil were not needed. What they needed to do was limit each class to 2 damaging conditions and 2 secondary conditions. Then rebalance the conditions to be a bit more equal like poisons/burns stacking but doing lower damage. You could even add effects to damaging conditions like poison has like bleeds reduce endurance regen, burns have a chance to remove a boon, etc.

It will absolutely never happen though. You only need to look at their class development and balance since launch to know that it would take them literally years to make the changes necessary. Instead they will keep putting in new sub-par traits/skills, like putting paper on a bonfire in an attempt to put it out.