Guild Wars 2

So I was roaming today on my full zerker Warrior.

I came across a roaming Guardian, also full zerker. We fought each other…..for about 4 minutes….before both going our way.

None could even get close to killing the other. My Warrior was sustained by Adrenal Healing and Healing Signet. A few seconds of kiting after being hit by burst and I’d be safe again.

The Guardian on the other hand always seemed to have some sort of cooldown ready whenever he dropped close to 20% and was constantly able to pick himself back up.

I don’t really want to point out any imbalances in particular, but if two Full Zerkers can’t even kill each other, then balance is pretty out-of-whack.

A med guard usually can hold it’s own against a warrior, if the warrior actually tries to fight it out the exception would be mace/shield GS is a very hard fight usually need scepter/focus and swap smite for stand your ground.

It is still a duel so it doesn’t hold alot of substance there are plenty of things to point to why a guardian can’t finish someone off the biggest is they don’t really have good soft cc like cripples. DPS guard damage is excellent but staying on the enemy is hard.

Balance isn’t out of wack because 2 heavies are trying to chop each other and kite when they are low to recover that isn’t a very good base argument.

What weapons where you running?

The moment I saw the thread, I thought about Thieves

Rym.1469:

The moment I saw the thread, I thought about Thieves

That was my first thought 2 D/P thieves playing rotation stealth games. 2 PU zerk mesmers probably can last 4 minutes.

I smell a Nike warrior spec with Sw/Shield + GS here or something with a GS to kite and recover health. If you wanted to win vs a dps guard you grab a mace/shield and GS any other weapon set a warrior brings just doesn’t have the punch imo maybe Axe evis pressure but dps guard GS and Sword or even scepter can trade autos with a Warrior axe.

The guardian wasn’t zerker at all then. A med guard should be able to drop at least 40% of your health with one rotation. Also it depends on the traits and the weapon.
( A sword/shield warrior isint a zerker, a mace guard either , guard with AH or warrior with shouts etc..)
Whenever I fight a medi guard it really doesn’t last more than 30 sec I think. He will use his blocks with focus and then heal up a little bit but they are so squishy , it should not last 4 min.

Bunker guardian with zerk gear? Not totally inconceivable.

It seems like you guys mist my point entirely.

I wasn’t complaining about either class specifically.

But if you have two Zerker builds that can’t kill each other because of insane sustain from various traits then something is pretty broken. I can understand stalemates when you have two Bunkers duking it out, but Berserkers? I don’t think that’s ok.

I am not sure if i can believe this. I watched a lot of duels on 1v1 servers. And there zerker guard vs zerker warriors always ended with someone down…

Did someone reset the fight with his mobility skills like a coward? Which should be possible for both in wvw.

Dee Jay.2460:

It seems like you guys mist my point entirely.

I wasn’t complaining about either class specifically.

But if you have two Zerker builds that can’t kill each other because of insane sustain from various traits then something is pretty broken. I can understand stalemates when you have two Bunkers duking it out, but Berserkers? I don’t think that’s ok.

Zerker riffle warrior with shout healing vs Zerker mace guard with AH is not 2 zerkers.

Dee Jay.2460:

It seems like you guys mist my point entirely.

I wasn’t complaining about either class specifically.

But if you have two Zerker builds that can’t kill each other because of insane sustain from various traits then something is pretty broken. I can understand stalemates when you have two Bunkers duking it out, but Berserkers? I don’t think that’s ok.

Thats actually called balanced, if you both specced for defensive skills (and no a full zerk warrior doesnt get adrenal which btw is quite a op trait for its low requirement) and duked it out, properly using skills, you were probably of equal skill and thus in a tie.
Skill & Build>Stats

Dee Jay, what server are you on/what did the guardian look like? Reason I ask is I ran into a glass warrior that I fought for about 4 minutes, ended up not going anywhere and we both went our merry ways. I only remember because the warriors that neither spontaneously explode in one burst or hit the afterburners in the other direction are very rare indeed.

As for guardian, triple M guards have 2k heals for each utility. One of these is on a 16 second cooldown. Combined with blocks/blinds/invulns they can survive a lot of punishment. The build I run is full zerker, the only defense it has are blocks/blinds and the obvious meditation healing.

Zerkers can’t kill anything that is capable of moving and healing.

You want to be Rampager instead.

Andele.1306:

Dee Jay.2460:

It seems like you guys mist my point entirely.

I wasn’t complaining about either class specifically.

But if you have two Zerker builds that can’t kill each other because of insane sustain from various traits then something is pretty broken. I can understand stalemates when you have two Bunkers duking it out, but Berserkers? I don’t think that’s ok.

Thats actually called balanced, if you both specced for defensive skills (and no a full zerk warrior doesnt get adrenal which btw is quite a op trait for its low requirement) and duked it out, properly using skills, you were probably of equal skill and thus in a tie.
Skill & Build>Stats

This. You ain’t no zerker, bro. Traits, and not gear define a “build”. You’re a confused defensive warrior with wannabe gear. The guardian was likely the same.

I’m gonna take a guess here and say you ran away to let adrenal health and heal sig pop you up a bit before attacking again? If so that’s your problem tripple m guardian can have short enough cool downs he will heal as much or more than you.

I find the logic of saying two zerkers cant kill each other deeply flawed by the fact that you very likely reset the fight to some extent. Your argument wouldn’t hold true of you stayed in contact and just beat it out. Not saying resetting the fight is bad, it just invalidates the claim.

Also anyone who thinks a zerker guard cant beat a zerker warrior…lets go to spvp and I will educate you!

Calvin.5380:

Andele.1306:

Dee Jay.2460:

It seems like you guys mist my point entirely.

I wasn’t complaining about either class specifically.

But if you have two Zerker builds that can’t kill each other because of insane sustain from various traits then something is pretty broken. I can understand stalemates when you have two Bunkers duking it out, but Berserkers? I don’t think that’s ok.

Thats actually called balanced, if you both specced for defensive skills (and no a full zerk warrior doesnt get adrenal which btw is quite a op trait for its low requirement) and duked it out, properly using skills, you were probably of equal skill and thus in a tie.
Skill & Build>Stats

This. You ain’t no zerker, bro. Traits, and not gear define a “build”. You’re a confused defensive warrior with wannabe gear. The guardian was likely the same.

BERzerker is for the equipment, not the traits.

6/6/0/0/2 – GS – Axe/Mace (PvE)
6/2/0/0/6 – GS – Rifle (WvW)
0/2/6/2/4 – Hammer – Axe/Shield (PvP)
All three builds are zerker, doesn’t matter which traits they pick.

Dee Jay.2460:

It seems like you guys mist my point entirely.

I wasn’t complaining about either class specifically.

But if you have two Zerker builds that can’t kill each other because of insane sustain from various traits then something is pretty broken. I can understand stalemates when you have two Bunkers duking it out, but Berserkers? I don’t think that’s ok.

It’s a L2p issue. You should be able to kill each other.

FLiP.7680:

Calvin.5380:

Andele.1306:

Dee Jay.2460:

It seems like you guys mist my point entirely.

I wasn’t complaining about either class specifically.

But if you have two Zerker builds that can’t kill each other because of insane sustain from various traits then something is pretty broken. I can understand stalemates when you have two Bunkers duking it out, but Berserkers? I don’t think that’s ok.

Thats actually called balanced, if you both specced for defensive skills (and no a full zerk warrior doesnt get adrenal which btw is quite a op trait for its low requirement) and duked it out, properly using skills, you were probably of equal skill and thus in a tie.
Skill & Build>Stats

This. You ain’t no zerker, bro. Traits, and not gear define a “build”. You’re a confused defensive warrior with wannabe gear. The guardian was likely the same.

BERzerker is for the equipment, not the traits.

6/6/0/0/2 – GS – Axe/Mace (PvE)
6/2/0/0/6 – GS – Rifle (WvW)
0/2/6/2/4 – Hammer – Axe/Shield (PvP)
All three builds are zerker, doesn’t matter which traits they pick.

Actually, that last one is Bunker. Traits matter, because they define your character’s skills, passive and active abilities far more than which stats are boosted.

I don’t know. When I am full zerk I can kill meditation guardians. It takes awhile and if I’m not careful they can kill me but usually I will win. I suppose the question is how zerk were you?

Most Warriors I see, Zerker or otherwise, only seem to know how to apply pressure in 1 way. They set up a single burst, and if it lands, it’s high pressure. If it doesn’t, they run around kind of trying to hit you for a while waiting for their burst to come back. When you know what to dodge, and you dodge the burst, that Zerker Warrior isn’t really doing much.

I don’t know enough about, nor have I seen around, med Guards to know exactly what their rotation is like, but if their soft CC is lacking and they blow any gap-closers as part of a rotation then can’t catch up to a Warrior’s disengage, the Warrior is going to artificially extend the fight as much as he/she wants.

I don’t really see a problem with the OP’s outlined scenario. I think only mentioning the stat priority is also, as has been pointed out, misleading regarding the scenario. People think “zerker” === “glass”, when in fact a defensively traited/utility’d Warrior is not really all that glass, necessarily.

Anyway, my mostly-zerker 6/2/0/0/6 Powermancer doesn’t have infinite fights with other Zerker builds. Unless it’s a Thief who can disengage at will, my fights end, and often very swiftly.

Zerk guards when played well mess kids up. You probably just ran into a bad one or your warrior wasn’t played to its fullest potential.

Running away whenever the guardian does damage to regen doesn’t indicate if the guardian was skilled or not. I wreck warriors, but their are plenty that are part gazelle that just run for the hills after you look sternly at them. When I see Rush → whirlwind → Sword Leap → bullscharge, I generally just go find something specced for fighting rather than running.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Anyway, my mostly-zerker 6/2/0/0/6 Powermancer doesn’t have infinite fights with other Zerker builds. Unless it’s a Thief who can disengage at will, my fights end, and often very swiftly.

Thats mostly because necro only really gets a heal skill so getting hp back after you lost it is hard, plus zerk necros pressure is such that there is no tanking it. There are only three options fighting a good zerker necro, kill it in 5 or so seconds, CC him into the ground, run away or die horribly, most any way it works out its a quick fight.

Medi guardian on the other hand get his heal for 5-8k depending on the skill 2k of each utility and 2k of his virtues which he can use twice. Triple M guards can get hp back any time they like.

I have been running into more of this lately as well (being unable to kill an enemy but also being unkillable myself, 1v1). I don’t think this is necessarily a bad thing – these fights are often fun for me since survivability is often tied to player input (proper use of dodges, blocks, and CCs). Nonetheless, I do agree that fights need to end, either by a player dying or running away, especially when the players are both glassy. I have thought of a few possible solutions:

1) undo the berserker damage nerf.
I don’t support this solution since I think damage is high enough as-is. Furthermore, if damage is increased, the chance of dying in single burst in a couple seconds or less also increases. Some may argue against this, but there is a fine balance to be obtained between punishing players with insta-death for a single mistake (or simply being out of defensive cooldowns/dodges) and making defenses/CCs irrelevant due to passive defenses, and I think were are in a good spot in the regard now.

2) decrease active defenses.
I don’t support this solution. In this, I am including dodges, blocks, invulnerabilities, and CCs. I don’t support decreasing these skills because they are all generally active and require well-timed player input in order to succeed. In some cases, it may be possible that players can have too many active defenses, allowing them to shuffle between them on cooldown and have a very high invulerability uptime. However, I do not think this situation is very common, and often builds that do this will give up a significant amount of damage and passive defense. Furthermore, decreasing these active defenses would shift combat outcomes toward passive factors (healing power, toughness, damage-per-second).

3) My proposed solution – Nerf healing
If healing is nerfed, player sustainability is reduced without simultaneously making players more volatile (capable of being 100-0% shot in a very, very short time) or decreasing the value of player input (active defenses). I would support a nerf to all base healing but NOT to healing power scaling. The contribution of healing power is often considered low for many (but not all) builds/skills. Nerfing base healing would make healing power contribute to a greater fraction of overall healing.

TLDR – nerf base healing and survivability goes down without removing the value of player skill, and as a bonus, healing power becomes more valuable

fluidmonolith.3584:

I have been running into more of this lately as well (being unable to kill an enemy but also being unkillable myself, 1v1). I don’t think this is necessarily a bad thing – these fights are often fun for me since survivability is often tied to player input (proper use of dodges, blocks, and CCs). Nonetheless, I do agree that fights need to end, either by a player dying or running away, especially when the players are both glassy. I have thought of a few possible solutions:

1) undo the berserker damage nerf.
I don’t support this solution since I think damage is high enough as-is. Furthermore, if damage is increased, the chance of dying in single burst in a couple seconds or less also increases. Some may argue against this, but there is a fine balance to be obtained between punishing players with insta-death for a single mistake (or simply being out of defensive cooldowns/dodges) and making defenses/CCs irrelevant due to passive defenses, and I think were are in a good spot in the regard now.

2) decrease active defenses.
I don’t support this solution. In this, I am including dodges, blocks, invulnerabilities, and CCs. I don’t support decreasing these skills because they are all generally active and require well-timed player input in order to succeed. In some cases, it may be possible that players can have too many active defenses, allowing them to shuffle between them on cooldown and have a very high invulerability uptime. However, I do not think this situation is very common, and often builds that do this will give up a significant amount of damage and passive defense. Furthermore, decreasing these active defenses would shift combat outcomes toward passive factors (healing power, toughness, damage-per-second).

3) My proposed solution – Nerf healing
If healing is nerfed, player sustainability is reduced without simultaneously making players more volatile (capable of being 100-0% shot in a very, very short time) or decreasing the value of player input (active defenses). I would support a nerf to all base healing but NOT to healing power scaling. The contribution of healing power is often considered low for many (but not all) builds/skills. Nerfing base healing would make healing power contribute to a greater fraction of overall healing.

TLDR – nerf base healing and survivability goes down without removing the value of player skill, and as a bonus, healing power becomes more valuable

Nerfing healing doesn’t fix 2 heavies kiting when they get low in a 1v1. It’s a 1v1 and shouldn’t be a reason to nerf base healing across the game short sighted thinking. Who cares really if a guard and warrior don’t kill each other is that really a problem even if they are in full zerker. It’s 1v1 and if he would have came across another build/class in full zerker someone would have died.

So many suggestions to change things for the sake of change.

I must say Icewielder, perhaps I’m just tired and easily amused, I’ve certainly been accused of the latter, but I’m thoroughly enjoying these Warrior comments

Icewielder.4195:

there are plenty that are part gazelle that just run for the hills after you look sternly at them.

Icewielder.4195:

I generally just go find something specced for fighting rather than running.

Icewielder.4195:

warriors that neither spontaneously explode in one burst or hit the afterburners in the other direction are very rare indeed.

Such true. There are a few that don’t do this, but the vast majority… it’s just like the army of p/d thieves awkwardly falling over in smoke fields towards your general directions.

As for Warriors ballet-twirling their way out of trebuchet range, there’s one man, one Guardian who can catch them every time.

His name? Logan Thackeray. Outrunning all of the competition since 2012 – 3x Retreat on his bar.