Guild Wars 2

Moleless.1462:

Dee Jay.2460:

Imo Guardian group-support is the most imbalanced thing in this game.

lol

Now you laugh. Just wait till the immortal guild blobs reach you with their 50% Guardians, 50% everything else setup and tell me how funny it is.

And I’m sure it’s totally balanced that Guardians have been the undisputed, uncontested mid-bunkers in sPvP since day 1.

Yeah, their OP group support is surely just in my head.

Warriors do slightly less damage in my opinion, however.. they are really easy to play and far tankier (even when in DPS) than Guardians.

Aza.2105:

jportell.2197:

Aza.2105:

In comparison to what other utility skill? Afaik, no other utility functions like Merciful Intervention. But this isn’t the point of my posts to you. You said valor is bad because of no support, I told you there is communal defense. So that argument is now invalid. You said that guardians can be selfish, in reality they can’t unless they really try hard to do everything not to assist allies.

I don’t have a subjective view of support, I’m talking about objectively. By the definition of what it means. Objectively speaking the entire class design is built upon support, no one can deny this.

And if you want group support you would go anywhere but valor. PvE Is a DPS race. Valor gives the worst DPS options in guardian trait lines. It also gives the worst support from all of guardians trait lines.

Do you do teq or wurm?

Have done it since those can’t be critted you can get away with soldiers. And in Teq or wurm guards are taken for their support meaning not meditations.

jportell.2197:

Aza.2105:

jportell.2197:

Aza.2105:

In comparison to what other utility skill? Afaik, no other utility functions like Merciful Intervention. But this isn’t the point of my posts to you. You said valor is bad because of no support, I told you there is communal defense. So that argument is now invalid. You said that guardians can be selfish, in reality they can’t unless they really try hard to do everything not to assist allies.

I don’t have a subjective view of support, I’m talking about objectively. By the definition of what it means. Objectively speaking the entire class design is built upon support, no one can deny this.

And if you want group support you would go anywhere but valor. PvE Is a DPS race. Valor gives the worst DPS options in guardian trait lines. It also gives the worst support from all of guardians trait lines.

Do you do teq or wurm?

Have done it since those can’t be critted you can get away with soldiers. And in Teq or wurm guards are taken for their support meaning not meditations.

And you forgot to say , he should be kicked from the zerg if he brings meditations.

Dee Jay.2460:

Moleless.1462:

Dee Jay.2460:

Imo Guardian group-support is the most imbalanced thing in this game.

lol

Now you laugh. Just wait till the immortal guild blobs reach you with their 50% Guardians, 50% everything else setup and tell me how funny it is.

And I’m sure it’s totally balanced that Guardians have been the undisputed, uncontested mid-bunkers in sPvP since day 1.

Yeah, their OP group support is surely just in my head.

Yet that’s the only real Tpvp role and spec they have, and it’s more so balanced because they sacrifice the ability to actually do damage/threaten you by speccing into support bunking. Never mind the lack of swiftness and mobility without costing a arm and a leg(Retreat, GS, Staff, Sword) very low access of offensive debuffs. As well as underwealming ranged weapons. As far as wvw goes in blobs group support becomes OP because the weaknesses of being tanky with low damage gets turned to tanky with blob damage, and stacking team support abilities.

Funny how a few months ago I said in a war/guard thread that guardians can deal more damage than warriors and people hated me out of the thread because OMG HUNDERD BLADES BEST DPS GTFO SCRUB.

Fact of the matter is that in most realistic PvP scenarios, a well-played guardian can out-damage a well-played warrior just because of its higher reliability in its damage.

guardians out dpsed warrior for a long time for group play

and why are you surprised, there’s other classes that out dps warrior as well.

people who say in pve, warriors are best, are the ones who can’t control their characters properly in an easy game mode such as GW2 PvE, aka noobs.

I know, I just think it’s funny how peoples’ opinions change when metas shift, almost as though nobody actually bothers to test stuff out before making claims.

Ferrari. Speicifically built car. High performance. Extremely fast off of mark. Extremely fast over short distances. High maintenance. Small fuel reserves.

1964 hemi big blacl anything. Solid performance. Slowish off the mark. Respectable speed over shot distances. Lower maintenance. Large fuel reserves. Extremely fast over long distances.

Which one is faster?

Purely depends over which distances you choose to measure them. Guardian has high damage off the mark, very little else behind it. Warrior has ok damage off the mark, but builds up to massive damage and has a lot more staying power behind it. Better armor, better health, better coefficients, better movement. If you want High melee DPS..stick with warrior. Guardian starts well but finishes badly and heavily relies upon your target making multiple mistakes.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Guardian starts well but finishes badly and heavily relies upon your target making multiple mistakes.

Warrior is much, much more reliant on opponents making mistakes in high end pvp, actually. If the opponent doesn’t make mistakes vs certain builds a warrior will always lose.

But hey if you guys want to keep this warrior meta thing going that’s cool with me.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Ferrari. Speicifically built car. High performance. Extremely fast off of mark. Extremely fast over short distances. High maintenance. Small fuel reserves.

1964 hemi big blacl anything. Solid performance. Slowish off the mark. Respectable speed over shot distances. Lower maintenance. Large fuel reserves. Extremely fast over long distances.

Which one is faster?

Purely depends over which distances you choose to measure them. Guardian has high damage off the mark, very little else behind it. Warrior has ok damage off the mark, but builds up to massive damage and has a lot more staying power behind it. Better armor, better health, better coefficients, better movement. If you want High melee DPS..stick with warrior. Guardian starts well but finishes badly and heavily relies upon your target making multiple mistakes.

Actually that’s very much wrong. A zerker gaurdian WILL have a shtload of damage off the mark, but they also have a shtload of sustain. If it’s a long fight, the guardian will win. Warrior has to rely on a passive 300 heal per second, whereas a gaurdian has 3 2k heals on a relatively short cool down. If the warrior can’t manage to lock down a gaurd and burst him in a couple of hits, the gaurdian will outsustain him easy.

Moleless.1462:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Ferrari. Speicifically built car. High performance. Extremely fast off of mark. Extremely fast over short distances. High maintenance. Small fuel reserves.

1964 hemi big blacl anything. Solid performance. Slowish off the mark. Respectable speed over shot distances. Lower maintenance. Large fuel reserves. Extremely fast over long distances.

Which one is faster?

Purely depends over which distances you choose to measure them. Guardian has high damage off the mark, very little else behind it. Warrior has ok damage off the mark, but builds up to massive damage and has a lot more staying power behind it. Better armor, better health, better coefficients, better movement. If you want High melee DPS..stick with warrior. Guardian starts well but finishes badly and heavily relies upon your target making multiple mistakes.

Actually that’s very much wrong. A zerker gaurdian WILL have a shtload of damage off the mark, but they also have a shtload of sustain. If it’s a long fight, the guardian will win. Warrior has to rely on a passive 300 heal per second, whereas a gaurdian has 3 2k heals on a relatively short cool down. If the warrior can’t manage to lock down a gaurd and burst him in a couple of hits, the gaurdian will outsustain him easy.

Your example of a zerker guard is a bit vague, what traits are you imagining? AH? Meditations? 3.2k heals? With cleric gear? Since you said heals and not heals I’m assuming maybe you are referring to meditations?

Warning – math ahead:
0 healing power Warrior with no traits and with Healing Signet = 362 health/second
Healing Signet: 362

0 healing power quad meditation, 30 Valor Guardian with Meditation Mastery and Monk’s Focus = 363.22 health/second
(base healing + Monk’s Focus) / ((skill cooldown * Meditation Mastery) + skill cast time)
Smite Condition: (0 + 1960) / ((20 * 0.8) + 0) = 122.50
Judge’s Intervention: (0 + 1960) / ((45 * 0.8) + 0) = 54.44
Contemplation of Purity: (0 + 1960) / ((60 * 0.8) + 0) = 40.83
Litany of Wrath: (1640 + 1960) / ((30 * 0.8) + 0.75) = 145.45 (not counting 20% damage to healing conversion)

Conclusion: A quad meditation guardian has the same sustain as a Healing Signet warrior if he uses his meditations whenever possible and the warrior denies him to gain extra 6 second 20% of damage healing from Litany of Wrath.

And to answer the OP:
Nothing changed and I can’t say they are more popular than before. PvE and sPvP premade teams will always take 1 guardian for utility, WvW groups will always use a mix of guardians and warriors as the main force with a few support mesmers and elementalists behind. It will stay this way as long as guardians will be stuck so deep inside group support/utility role or another profession ascends to their level.

Moleless.1462:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Ferrari. Speicifically built car. High performance. Extremely fast off of mark. Extremely fast over short distances. High maintenance. Small fuel reserves.

1964 hemi big blacl anything. Solid performance. Slowish off the mark. Respectable speed over shot distances. Lower maintenance. Large fuel reserves. Extremely fast over long distances.

Which one is faster?

Purely depends over which distances you choose to measure them. Guardian has high damage off the mark, very little else behind it. Warrior has ok damage off the mark, but builds up to massive damage and has a lot more staying power behind it. Better armor, better health, better coefficients, better movement. If you want High melee DPS..stick with warrior. Guardian starts well but finishes badly and heavily relies upon your target making multiple mistakes.

Actually that’s very much wrong. A zerker gaurdian WILL have a shtload of damage off the mark, but they also have a shtload of sustain. If it’s a long fight, the guardian will win. Warrior has to rely on a passive 300 heal per second, whereas a gaurdian has 3 2k heals on a relatively short cool down. If the warrior can’t manage to lock down a gaurd and burst him in a couple of hits, the gaurdian will outsustain him easy.

Zerker guardians do a lot of damage but the trade off for it is obviously defensive stats. Zerker meditation guardians have much lower armor, health pool, and very little boon access. They have to rely on blinds blocks and dodges heavily to survive, with meditations being their sustain to help with the low health pool.

As far as meditation CD’s here’s a break down. “Smite Condition” (16s traited 20s not traited), “CoP” (48s traited, 60s not traited.) Judges Intervention(36s CD traited, kitten not traited), and Merciful intervention(40s traited, 50s untraited). So I wouldn’t call them short cooldowns except for smite conditon.

Also wrong Warrior Passive sustain only 300? I own three warriors and the base is around 360+ atm if you don’t pour any points into Defense at all. In which case if you do put points in it, you still hit about 400 HPS with just healing signet, lets not forget Adrenal Health as well. Add regen from banners(if you run banner spec) or healing shouts(which are basically meditation heals). You can’t outsustain a warrior when playing a zerker guardian, you have to be really aggressive and keep up sustained DPS if you wanna tear them down, otherwise he’s just going to soak up a lot of your damage with high armor and regen. In which case in any fight said warrior can just kite away from a guardian if things get to hot, and/or depending on the build stunlock.

Althalos.6734:

Warning – math ahead:
0 healing power Warrior with no traits and with Healing Signet = 362 health/second
Healing Signet: 362

0 healing power quad meditation, 30 Valor Guardian with Meditation Mastery and Monk’s Focus = 363.22 health/second
(base healing + Monk’s Focus) / ((skill cooldown * Meditation Mastery) + skill cast time)
Smite Condition: (0 + 1960) / ((20 * 0.8) + 0) = 122.50
Judge’s Intervention: (0 + 1960) / ((45 * 0.8) + 0) = 54.44
Contemplation of Purity: (0 + 1960) / ((60 * 0.8) + 0) = 40.83
Litany of Wrath: (1640 + 1960) / ((30 * 0.8) + 0.75) = 145.45 (not counting 20% damage to healing conversion)

Conclusion: A quad meditation guardian has the same sustain as a Healing Signet warrior if he uses his meditations whenever possible and the warrior denies him to gain extra 6 second 20% of damage healing from Litany of Wrath.

And to answer the OP:
Nothing changed and I can’t say they are more popular than before. PvE and sPvP premade teams will always take 1 guardian for utility, WvW groups will always use a mix of guardians and warriors as the main force with a few support mesmers and elementalists behind. It will stay this way as long as guardians will be stuck so deep inside group support/utility role or another profession ascends to their level.

You aren’t including adrenal health, every warrior in pvp takes this with cleansing ire….

Also, zerker guardian has no sustain they have burst healing. Not sure why you included litany of wrath. Because its completely theoretical, in the sense that you must land all of your attacks to make use of it. Its a better group fight heal than it is for single fights because of this. So I wouldn’t bother including it in your mathematical analysis if I were you.

Aza.2105:

Althalos.6734:

Warning – math ahead:
0 healing power Warrior with no traits and with Healing Signet = 362 health/second
Healing Signet: 362

0 healing power quad meditation, 30 Valor Guardian with Meditation Mastery and Monk’s Focus = 363.22 health/second
(base healing + Monk’s Focus) / ((skill cooldown * Meditation Mastery) + skill cast time)
Smite Condition: (0 + 1960) / ((20 * 0.8) + 0) = 122.50
Judge’s Intervention: (0 + 1960) / ((45 * 0.8) + 0) = 54.44
Contemplation of Purity: (0 + 1960) / ((60 * 0.8) + 0) = 40.83
Litany of Wrath: (1640 + 1960) / ((30 * 0.8) + 0.75) = 145.45 (not counting 20% damage to healing conversion)

Conclusion: A quad meditation guardian has the same sustain as a Healing Signet warrior if he uses his meditations whenever possible and the warrior denies him to gain extra 6 second 20% of damage healing from Litany of Wrath.

And to answer the OP:
Nothing changed and I can’t say they are more popular than before. PvE and sPvP premade teams will always take 1 guardian for utility, WvW groups will always use a mix of guardians and warriors as the main force with a few support mesmers and elementalists behind. It will stay this way as long as guardians will be stuck so deep inside group support/utility role or another profession ascends to their level.

You aren’t including adrenal health, every warrior in pvp takes this with cleansing ire….

Also, zerker guardian has no sustain they have burst healing. Not sure why you included litany of wrath. Because its completely theoretical, in the sense that you must land all of your attacks to make use of it. Its a better group fight heal than it is for single fights because of this. So I wouldn’t bother including it in your mathematical analysis if I were you.

Adrenal Health has been overestimated for ages now. It only tics once over 3 seconds and the vast majority of Warrior builds revolve around using your adrenaline constantly to not be eaten alive by conditions. It’s an OK trait, but nearly as amazing as some seem to thing it is.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Aza.2105:

Althalos.6734:

Warning – math ahead:
0 healing power Warrior with no traits and with Healing Signet = 362 health/second
Healing Signet: 362

0 healing power quad meditation, 30 Valor Guardian with Meditation Mastery and Monk’s Focus = 363.22 health/second
(base healing + Monk’s Focus) / ((skill cooldown * Meditation Mastery) + skill cast time)
Smite Condition: (0 + 1960) / ((20 * 0.8) + 0) = 122.50
Judge’s Intervention: (0 + 1960) / ((45 * 0.8) + 0) = 54.44
Contemplation of Purity: (0 + 1960) / ((60 * 0.8) + 0) = 40.83
Litany of Wrath: (1640 + 1960) / ((30 * 0.8) + 0.75) = 145.45 (not counting 20% damage to healing conversion)

Conclusion: A quad meditation guardian has the same sustain as a Healing Signet warrior if he uses his meditations whenever possible and the warrior denies him to gain extra 6 second 20% of damage healing from Litany of Wrath.

And to answer the OP:
Nothing changed and I can’t say they are more popular than before. PvE and sPvP premade teams will always take 1 guardian for utility, WvW groups will always use a mix of guardians and warriors as the main force with a few support mesmers and elementalists behind. It will stay this way as long as guardians will be stuck so deep inside group support/utility role or another profession ascends to their level.

You aren’t including adrenal health, every warrior in pvp takes this with cleansing ire….

Also, zerker guardian has no sustain they have burst healing. Not sure why you included litany of wrath. Because its completely theoretical, in the sense that you must land all of your attacks to make use of it. Its a better group fight heal than it is for single fights because of this. So I wouldn’t bother including it in your mathematical analysis if I were you.

Adrenal Health has been overestimated for ages now. It only tics once over 3 seconds and the vast majority of Warrior builds revolve around using your adrenaline constantly to not be eaten alive by conditions. It’s an OK trait, but nearly as amazing as some seem to thing it is.

Its just like Virtue of Resolve, but better.

Aza.2105:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Aza.2105:

Althalos.6734:

Warning – math ahead:
0 healing power Warrior with no traits and with Healing Signet = 362 health/second
Healing Signet: 362

0 healing power quad meditation, 30 Valor Guardian with Meditation Mastery and Monk’s Focus = 363.22 health/second
(base healing + Monk’s Focus) / ((skill cooldown * Meditation Mastery) + skill cast time)
Smite Condition: (0 + 1960) / ((20 * 0.8) + 0) = 122.50
Judge’s Intervention: (0 + 1960) / ((45 * 0.8) + 0) = 54.44
Contemplation of Purity: (0 + 1960) / ((60 * 0.8) + 0) = 40.83
Litany of Wrath: (1640 + 1960) / ((30 * 0.8) + 0.75) = 145.45 (not counting 20% damage to healing conversion)

Conclusion: A quad meditation guardian has the same sustain as a Healing Signet warrior if he uses his meditations whenever possible and the warrior denies him to gain extra 6 second 20% of damage healing from Litany of Wrath.

And to answer the OP:
Nothing changed and I can’t say they are more popular than before. PvE and sPvP premade teams will always take 1 guardian for utility, WvW groups will always use a mix of guardians and warriors as the main force with a few support mesmers and elementalists behind. It will stay this way as long as guardians will be stuck so deep inside group support/utility role or another profession ascends to their level.

You aren’t including adrenal health, every warrior in pvp takes this with cleansing ire….

Also, zerker guardian has no sustain they have burst healing. Not sure why you included litany of wrath. Because its completely theoretical, in the sense that you must land all of your attacks to make use of it. Its a better group fight heal than it is for single fights because of this. So I wouldn’t bother including it in your mathematical analysis if I were you.

Adrenal Health has been overestimated for ages now. It only tics once over 3 seconds and the vast majority of Warrior builds revolve around using your adrenaline constantly to not be eaten alive by conditions. It’s an OK trait, but nearly as amazing as some seem to thing it is.

Its just like Virtue of Resolve, but better.

why are you comparing a skill to a trait, and they are nothing alike to be compared.

Aza.2105:

Althalos.6734:

…

You aren’t including adrenal health, every warrior in pvp takes this with cleansing ire….

Also, zerker guardian has no sustain they have burst healing. Not sure why you included litany of wrath. Because its completely theoretical, in the sense that you must land all of your attacks to make use of it. Its a better group fight heal than it is for single fights because of this. So I wouldn’t bother including it in your mathematical analysis if I were you.

I also did not include Virtue of Resolve, which would be another 84 health/second extra for the guardian. But what I wanted to show is how much would a meditaion guardian have to pull off to match the sustain of a Healing Signet warrior. Yes, the guard would most likely have 4 blinds and a 3 trigger block, but the warrior also has more health and superior crowd control.

So in the end it’s extremly hit or miss (kill or die) for the guardian since he has less health to live through a burst and no reliable way to disengage if things don’t go well.