Guild Wars 2

Hello folks, i am Napzor, member of Anti Social Dragon Finishers [asdf], and an engineer player for a long time. I don’t wan to extend this topic into an argue i guess, so just wanted to suggest this quickly. The fact is that mesmer thief teams are pretty balanced, and have even odds vs everything they face, and that’s amazing. Sure, i think some things damage wise are over the top, but it’s not to be mentioned in this topic. What i want to address to is, the stealth moa kills that turn the fights around, and makes them snowball throughout the whole match.

The changes i would suggest are so subtle, yet will (in my opinion) do so much… What i’m suggesting is: Give the caster of moa revealed buff on casting it (let’s say 3 seconds) and preferably a sign over the head (somewhat like signet of spite, so you’d rather have time to dodge it since it has a normal cast time). At least the reveal buff would be a reasonable solution i think. That would make people a bit more reactive, rather then blind dodging or popping aegis/bloocks/cds while mesmers sit in shadow refuge and laugh…

Quickly made thread, so apologize for any typing mistakes or poop sentences. Have fun y’all!

You have to keep in mind, it is an elite and it has quite a long cd even for elites. Few elites can be completely shut down just by dodging at the right moment. If Moa had a shorter cd of say 60-90 seconds, I’d probably agree to both of your changes. But as it stands, the mesmer would be lucky to land it in the first of two confrontations and have it be back up by the third. Currently, unless you’re in a fairly organized group, Mass Invis has so many more uses than Moa Morph. As others have stated in the other thread regarding Moa, the reason most people feel like it is a death sentence is because they devote all their time to running while in it. Play smart and that 10 seconds will just be a minor setback. If as soon as you become a moa you chain both your dodges and the evade, you’re probably gonna die.

This change alone would easily make Moa Morph not even worthy of an elite as it would probably never land without extensive setup, and even then you risk putting it on a 3 minute cd if they happen to block/stun break/evade at the right time. It is still an elite, and like I said earlier, there are only a few elites that can be single-handedly stopped by blocks/evades, and they compensate for that by having cds under 1 minute.

If the mesmer is sitting in a Shadow Refuge then you have a whole different issue and it’s not just Moa.

Add all the possible tells you want, Moa is never going to be “balanced” to people who are unprepared. They could add block letters on the screen that said “Dodge now idiot” and the instant someone got morphed they’d be right back on the forums complaining.

Either learn to play, or deal with the fact that a mesmer wasted a 3 minute cd skill just to take you out of the fight for 10 seconds.

I suggest to leave moa alone. It is an “elite” and there fore, justifiably strong.

Hm, I’m with the other posters, however I admire your work here. Making the moa cast a reveal might help shut a lot of people up, but the fact that moa is still, despite how the QQ’s feel, a 180s elite with various ways to negate already should balance out its strength and the fact that it can be stealth-casted with the fact that its failure would mean a full CD and no benefit to the mesmer. Basically high-risk/reward scenario.

However, if moa didn’t have the number of negations which it does, I would definitely support your perfectly reasonable change. Sadly, when there are elites like Supply Crate and Lich which are equally strong, yet less frustrating emotionally, which have none of the moa’s weaknesses in that a blind or block or dodge does not simply ignore the skill completely and make it unusable for three minutes, the change would not put all elites on the same level.

I will agree with OP if Moa became unblockable

Make it a visible projectile that can be reflected. Give it another color and size and the caster can be in stealth.

Then it will became a high risk/reward skill.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Make it a visible projectile that can be reflected. Give it another color and size and the caster can be in stealth.

Then it will became a high risk/reward skill.

ok, then change cd to 90 s

Anton.1769:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Make it a visible projectile that can be reflected. Give it another color and size and the caster can be in stealth.

Then it will became a high risk/reward skill.

ok, then change cd to 90 s

Fair enough but the duration must be lowered as well.

I like how there’s constant complaints about Moa being supposedly too strong, when the elite is nearly untaken in actual play. Yes yes, we are aware, it’s awesome in hotjoin because inexperienced players don’t know what to do when they’re Moa’d.

Try it once they did a dozen of matches and you might as well leave the slot empty, Moa has very few use cases. Not worth a 180s CD, in any case.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Make it a visible projectile that can be reflected. Give it another color and size and the caster can be in stealth.

Then it will became a high risk/reward skill.

Eh, that adds high risk, but what is the high reward? The thing essentially performs a very bad daze-like effect (since for most players raw damage goes way up in Moa form) for 10s on someone.

Not useless, but seeing how you actually make them deal more damage while they’re transformed, what is the use behind it if … hrm… you could ofc self-moa to get that extra power damage.

Realistically though, the skill needs something like a 5-6s duration but a 240-360 AE radius to be useful. Right now you can use it in a select few cases to dominate a 1v1 fight (unsupported game format) or turn a 2v2 into a 2v1 because the Moa’d player cannot easily join the fight due to stage layout.

But those are rare as hell, and in all other cases TW or MI perform worlds better and – more importantly – are useful in multiple scenarios, not just one.

Carighan.6758:

I like how there’s constant complaints about Moa being supposedly too strong, when the elite is nearly untaken in actual play. Yes yes, we are aware, it’s awesome in hotjoin because inexperienced players don’t know what to do when they’re Moa’d.

Try it once they did a dozen of matches and you might as well leave the slot empty, Moa has very few use cases. Not worth a 180s CD, in any case.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Make it a visible projectile that can be reflected. Give it another color and size and the caster can be in stealth.

Then it will became a high risk/reward skill.

Eh, that adds high risk, but what is the high reward? The thing essentially performs a very bad daze-like effect (since for most players raw damage goes way up in Moa form) for 10s on someone.

Not useless, but seeing how you actually make them deal more damage while they’re transformed, what is the use behind it if … hrm… you could ofc self-moa to get that extra power damage.

Realistically though, the skill needs something like a 5-6s duration but a 240-360 AE radius to be useful. Right now you can use it in a select few cases to dominate a 1v1 fight (unsupported game format) or turn a 2v2 into a 2v1 because the Moa’d player cannot easily join the fight due to stage layout.

But those are rare as hell, and in all other cases TW or MI perform worlds better and – more importantly – are useful in multiple scenarios, not just one.

The skill is very usefull in a way that you can Moa the suport class, turn the fight to 2v1 – 3v2 (without the suport class) and in a team fight you can easely focus the Morphed player and kill him easy. (very high reward).

If Moa had reduced CD i believe that many more mesmers would take it.
But with shorter CD it would need a shorter duration and more counter play.

As i said, i don’t want to turn this in to an argue, but all in all, looks like you haven’t played with or versus a proper team with good mesmers and thieves. Well, at least i tried. It’s not about taking that oponent on a respawn with moa, it’s about the snowball potential of the comp that exceeds the limits with moa. And you all have to agree that it’s not funny that you get a stealth opener, then thief removes aegis and you get a moa at the same time. No response, no counter. From then on the game is a 5v4, so you either lose a node, or you all die and lose a node. Even on a 180 sec, it’s too much. And reveal buff is so minor yet gamebreaking thing, that i dont see the hussle about it.

I’m sorry but as a Mesmer main and someone who spends a lot of my time in team que or tpvp with a thief on my team..

what you’re stating is not that Moa is OP

What i understood is that you find Stealth and useless tells/animations to be OP.

So you want just Moa to cause a loss of stealth while casting.. what about laying down turrets as an engie or any other action you might take while you yourself are under the effect of stealth?

I would call that fair trade, in fact lets break the thief class entirely just to round this all out, no one can use any skill in stealth because using skills while hidden is OP.

Now lets focus on poor tells and crap animations, funny enough you play a class that is caulk kittenin full of these. Maybe engi kits also need a sign or marker above yoru head as well as an added casting time to warn everyone in the area that you are about to use a Bomb kit or Grenades?

actually lets just do this to everyone’s elite skills across the board so that I as a Mesmer get fair and equal warning when you want to drop that Supply crate as an asura.

As a player on a class that only just barely found some footing in the Meta again (with a 2 year old build mind you) It’s a bit … well.. whats a good word.. stupid, to see people point at our Mechanics and Elites which have been complete NON ISSUES for a LOOOOOOOOOOOONG time.. Laughable even.

As a player in general, I agree that Stealth is a bit of a broken aspect of this game. and that some casting animations need serious improvement.

Next time you want to properly discuss it, maybe pull examples from multiple classes including your own tho. People might be more inclined to listen rather than spew back two year old responses to two year old complaints.

Swish.2463:

I’m sorry but as a Mesmer main and someone who spends a lot of my time in team que or tpvp with a thief on my team..

what you’re stating is not that Moa is OP

What i understood is that you find Stealth and useless tells/animations to be OP.

So you want just Moa to cause a loss of stealth while casting.. what about laying down turrets as an engie or any other action you might take while you yourself are under the effect of stealth?

I would call that fair trade, in fact lets break the thief class entirely just to round this all out, no one can use any skill in stealth because using skills while hidden is OP.

Now lets focus on poor tells and crap animations, funny enough you play a class that is caulk kittenin full of these. Maybe engi kits also need a sign or marker above yoru head as well as an added casting time to warn everyone in the area that you are about to use a Bomb kit or Grenades?

actually lets just do this to everyone’s elite skills across the board so that I as a Mesmer get fair and equal warning when you want to drop that Supply crate as an asura.

As a player on a class that only just barely found some footing in the Meta again (with a 2 year old build mind you) It’s a bit … well.. whats a good word.. stupid, to see people point at our Mechanics and Elites which have been complete NON ISSUES for a LOOOOOOOOOOOONG time.. Laughable even.

As a player in general, I agree that Stealth is a bit of a broken aspect of this game. and that some casting animations need serious improvement.

Next time you want to properly discuss it, maybe pull examples from multiple classes including your own tho. People might be more inclined to listen rather than spew back two year old responses to two year old complaints.

You just need to read the title.
You can create other topic for suply crate. Go ahead.

Just gonna point out, there are only two other elites that can be completely negated by blocking/invulnerability on the first hit, Entangle and Basilisk Venom. The rest of the elites either function even if the person is blocking, don’t affect enemies, or last long enough and hit multiple times for a single block/dodge to not be enough. To make up for this, basilisk venom and entangle have cds of under 60 seconds and both can even be traited to have lower cds. Moa has a 3 minute cd and can’t be traited or improved in any way. Seems a bit inconsistent.

Necrotize.2974:

Just gonna point out, there are only two other elites that can be completely negated by blocking/invulnerability on the first hit, Entangle and Basilisk Venom. The rest of the elites either function even if the person is blocking, don’t affect enemies, or last long enough and hit multiple times for a single block/dodge to not be enough. To make up for this, basilisk venom and entangle have cds of under 60 seconds and both can even be traited to have lower cds. Moa has a 3 minute cd and can’t be traited or improved in any way. Seems a bit inconsistent.

You can point out these facts all you like………and you are right. The problem is, the OP did not come here for discussion. He has no interest in hearing anyone else reasons, and definitely appears to have no interest in changing his view on the matter.

The worst part, is that he is suggesting nerf based on a very specific circumstance, in a specific game mode. That alone, says to me that he is not interested in changing his view. Even if it is nerfing one of the longest cool down skills in the game, that can be dodged, or avoided any number of other ways, he still feels justified arguing that it is nerfed based on a very specific circumstance.

Because he died to a moa morph. And clearly if he dies, the skill has to be overpowered. Yuh uh!

Napzor.8275:

As i said, i don’t want to turn this in to an argue, but all in all, looks like you haven’t played with or versus a proper team with good mesmers and thieves. Well, at least i tried. It’s not about taking that oponent on a respawn with moa, it’s about the snowball potential of the comp that exceeds the limits with moa. And you all have to agree that it’s not funny that you get a stealth opener, then thief removes aegis and you get a moa at the same time. No response, no counter. From then on the game is a 5v4, so you either lose a node, or you all die and lose a node. Even on a 180 sec, it’s too much. And reveal buff is so minor yet gamebreaking thing, that i dont see the hussle about it.

Ah, I see what you’re saying, but think about this: There was a counter, it was counter-countered by the thief, and thus the moa succeeded.

Not going to say anything on the reveal thing right now, though, since all I wanted was to point the above out.

Swish.2463:

I’m sorry but as a Mesmer main and someone who spends a lot of my time in team que or tpvp with a thief on my team..

what you’re stating is not that Moa is OP

What i understood is that you find Stealth and useless tells/animations to be OP.

So you want just Moa to cause a loss of stealth while casting.. what about laying down turrets as an engie or any other action you might take while you yourself are under the effect of stealth?

I would call that fair trade, in fact lets break the thief class entirely just to round this all out, no one can use any skill in stealth because using skills while hidden is OP.

Now lets focus on poor tells and crap animations, funny enough you play a class that is caulk kittenin full of these. Maybe engi kits also need a sign or marker above yoru head as well as an added casting time to warn everyone in the area that you are about to use a Bomb kit or Grenades?

actually lets just do this to everyone’s elite skills across the board so that I as a Mesmer get fair and equal warning when you want to drop that Supply crate as an asura.

As a player on a class that only just barely found some footing in the Meta again (with a 2 year old build mind you) It’s a bit … well.. whats a good word.. stupid, to see people point at our Mechanics and Elites which have been complete NON ISSUES for a LOOOOOOOOOOOONG time.. Laughable even.

As a player in general, I agree that Stealth is a bit of a broken aspect of this game. and that some casting animations need serious improvement.

Next time you want to properly discuss it, maybe pull examples from multiple classes including your own tho. People might be more inclined to listen rather than spew back two year old responses to two year old complaints.

Calm down. He’s not making outrageous nerf suggestions, and he’s being reasonable, unlike other forum-goers.

I agree with some of your points, but state them in a respectful manner so that they aren’t outright offending him and inciting “hate” in this thread.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Make it a visible projectile that can be reflected. Give it another color and size and the caster can be in stealth.

Then it will became a high risk/reward skill.

The risk is losing moa on a full CD right when you need it, making it very unforgiving. You might not have understood, but a good mesmer in sPvP does not spam moa randomly, using it for very specific advantages and scenarios. For instance: Necro pops a Lich Form. Mesmer tries to Moa. This goes two ways: Moa works, Lich is averted, Necro either lives or dies depending on his skill with moa [OR] Moa fails, Necro kills Mesmer and team.

Therefore moa is like a tactical weapon, a very expensive EMP to lockdown an opponent in essential times of the match. If the moa fails, however, it means that the other team keeps their advantage in the fight and will likely put the mesmer’s team on the losing side or create a prolonged battle.

Thus, moa is high-risk, for the risk of failing at these crucial moments is high, and high reward, for the reward for succeeding in these crucial moments is high.

Many people don’t understand how moa is a very tactical skill and not, as one forum-goer said, an automatic “I-win-button”. I hope this was useful for you.

Those criers only see situations when they were Moaed, but do they know how match moa were failed to them? May be 1 success moa with 2 failed.

I think it must be like pre-patch wars F1: if evaded – it must not be put to CD

WhiteRose.6934:

If the mesmer is sitting in a Shadow Refuge then you have a whole different issue and it’s not just Moa.

Add all the possible tells you want, Moa is never going to be “balanced” to people who are unprepared. They could add block letters on the screen that said “Dodge now idiot” and the instant someone got morphed they’d be right back on the forums complaining.

Either learn to play, or deal with the fact that a mesmer wasted a 3 minute cd skill just to take you out of the fight for 10 seconds.

Luckily not meetings mesmer strong. Moa not only keeps you away from the battle … you want some examples?

1: 2 vs 1 mesmer … as soon as an enemy is downed = Moa on the other (possibly by invisible) to finish the target downed easily.
2: Invisibility -> Moa -> shatter combo ….. target in crisis.
3: Moa on the tank ….

Moa is true that in a very long CD, but if you use it properly determines who wins and who loses in a fight 1v1, 2v2, 3vs3 etc …. even in situations of numerical disadvantage may lead to being in the lead. In pvp is very strong if used well, perhaps too much, compared to many elite. I propose to change it … and reduce the CD.

DejaVu.9825:

1: 2 vs 1 mesmer … as soon as an enemy is downed = Moa on the other (possibly by invisible) to finish the target downed easily.

2v1 mesmer? Then you got outplayed sweetheart and need to deal with it. The mesmer was fighting against 2 players and happened to have an elite ready to handle the situation. Same can go for any class that has any CC available (or stealth) to secure a stomp.

DejaVu.9825:

2: Invisibility -> Moa -> shatter combo ….. target in crisis.

So a mesmer used either Decoy, Veil, or Torch to go invis…and you didn’t think to prepare yourself? What about ranger with LB 3→4→2 ‘target in crisis’? What about Thief with stealth→ Venom→ Backstab ‘Target in Crisis’?

Deal.

DejaVu.9825:

3: Moa on the tank ….

What’s a tank? Is this WoW?

Oh, wait, I can use a 3 minute easily avoided CD to rarely finish a target off in the 25% of cases I would not have done so anyhow? I feel overpowered. Wow. Clearly, just remove it, it’s nearly having as much effect as Rezz Banner has when the warrior isn’t logged on, this needs a nerf right now!

silentnight warrior.2714:

Carighan.6758:

I like how there’s constant complaints about Moa being supposedly too strong, when the elite is nearly untaken in actual play. Yes yes, we are aware, it’s awesome in hotjoin because inexperienced players don’t know what to do when they’re Moa’d.

Try it once they did a dozen of matches and you might as well leave the slot empty, Moa has very few use cases. Not worth a 180s CD, in any case.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Make it a visible projectile that can be reflected. Give it another color and size and the caster can be in stealth.

Then it will became a high risk/reward skill.

Eh, that adds high risk, but what is the high reward? The thing essentially performs a very bad daze-like effect (since for most players raw damage goes way up in Moa form) for 10s on someone.

Not useless, but seeing how you actually make them deal more damage while they’re transformed, what is the use behind it if … hrm… you could ofc self-moa to get that extra power damage.

Realistically though, the skill needs something like a 5-6s duration but a 240-360 AE radius to be useful. Right now you can use it in a select few cases to dominate a 1v1 fight (unsupported game format) or turn a 2v2 into a 2v1 because the Moa’d player cannot easily join the fight due to stage layout.

But those are rare as hell, and in all other cases TW or MI perform worlds better and – more importantly – are useful in multiple scenarios, not just one.

The skill is very usefull in a way that you can Moa the suport class, turn the fight to 2v1 – 3v2 (without the suport class) and in a team fight you can easely focus the Morphed player and kill him easy. (very high reward).

If Moa had reduced CD i believe that many more mesmers would take it.
But with shorter CD it would need a shorter duration and more counter play.

What you just stated can be found in any team fight where people focus one person out of the group.

If a necro pops lich form and you focus the support the support dies. And they will probably die faster because lol 5k auto lich form.

If a thief uses venom share in a 3 v 3 then it turns into a 3 v 2 where one person is basically going to be stuck until death.

Focusing someone in the game doesnt magically become easier with a moa, especially when TW in a 3 v 3 would be worlds more useful, thus why it and MI are the main skills for any meta build on mesmer.

On topic.

I would be all for changes to moa if it was 240 AE and unblockable, the 5 skill on moa was reduced from 1200 to 600, and the moa was immune to damage blocking effects through traits ( no more endure pain moa -_-)

Then I would propose.
Casting would reveal the mesmer-
Duration decreased from 10s to 5s
Cooldown reduced to 90s

that would make moa a useful elite and not the garbage you take in a hotjoin to pew pew noobs

WhiteRose.6934:

DejaVu.9825:

1: 2 vs 1 mesmer … as soon as an enemy is downed = Moa on the other (possibly by invisible) to finish the target downed easily.

2v1 mesmer? Then you got outplayed sweetheart and need to deal with it. The mesmer was fighting against 2 players and happened to have an elite ready to handle the situation. Same can go for any class that has any CC available (or stealth) to secure a stomp.

DejaVu.9825:

2: Invisibility -> Moa -> shatter combo ….. target in crisis.

So a mesmer used either Decoy, Veil, or Torch to go invis…and you didn’t think to prepare yourself? What about ranger with LB 3->4->2 ‘target in crisis’? What about Thief with stealth-> Venom-> Backstab ‘Target in Crisis’?

Deal.

DejaVu.9825:

3: Moa on the tank ….

What’s a tank? Is this WoW?

1: Never seen CC from 10 seconds… Come on admit it, Moa manages PERFECTLY situation… without considering that you just stability against CC, against invisible just do AoE damage or have some CC to be used to prevent the stomp.
2: The shatter combo does much more harm of Backstab
3: Guardian defenders on pvp. Or any profession support from boredom, so kill it quickly.

Sorry English use google translator.

Solori.6025:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Carighan.6758:

I like how there’s constant complaints about Moa being supposedly too strong, when the elite is nearly untaken in actual play. Yes yes, we are aware, it’s awesome in hotjoin because inexperienced players don’t know what to do when they’re Moa’d.

Try it once they did a dozen of matches and you might as well leave the slot empty, Moa has very few use cases. Not worth a 180s CD, in any case.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Make it a visible projectile that can be reflected. Give it another color and size and the caster can be in stealth.

Then it will became a high risk/reward skill.

Eh, that adds high risk, but what is the high reward? The thing essentially performs a very bad daze-like effect (since for most players raw damage goes way up in Moa form) for 10s on someone.

Not useless, but seeing how you actually make them deal more damage while they’re transformed, what is the use behind it if … hrm… you could ofc self-moa to get that extra power damage.

Realistically though, the skill needs something like a 5-6s duration but a 240-360 AE radius to be useful. Right now you can use it in a select few cases to dominate a 1v1 fight (unsupported game format) or turn a 2v2 into a 2v1 because the Moa’d player cannot easily join the fight due to stage layout.

But those are rare as hell, and in all other cases TW or MI perform worlds better and – more importantly – are useful in multiple scenarios, not just one.

The skill is very usefull in a way that you can Moa the suport class, turn the fight to 2v1 – 3v2 (without the suport class) and in a team fight you can easely focus the Morphed player and kill him easy. (very high reward).

If Moa had reduced CD i believe that many more mesmers would take it.
But with shorter CD it would need a shorter duration and more counter play.

What you just stated can be found in any team fight where people focus one person out of the group.

If a necro pops lich form and you focus the support the support dies. And they will probably die faster because lol 5k auto lich form.

If a thief uses venom share in a 3 v 3 then it turns into a 3 v 2 where one person is basically going to be stuck until death.

Focusing someone in the game doesnt magically become easier with a moa, especially when TW in a 3 v 3 would be worlds more useful, thus why it and MI are the main skills for any meta build on mesmer.

On topic.

I would be all for changes to moa if it was 240 AE and unblockable, the 5 skill on moa was reduced from 1200 to 600, and the moa was immune to damage blocking effects through traits.

Then I would propose.
Casting would reveal the mesmer-
Duration decreased from 10s to 5s
Cooldown reduced to 90s

that would make moa a useful elite and not the garbage you take in a hotjoin to pew pew noobs

+1
Great idea !!!

DejaVu.9825:

WhiteRose.6934:

DejaVu.9825:

1: 2 vs 1 mesmer … as soon as an enemy is downed = Moa on the other (possibly by invisible) to finish the target downed easily.

2v1 mesmer? Then you got outplayed sweetheart and need to deal with it. The mesmer was fighting against 2 players and happened to have an elite ready to handle the situation. Same can go for any class that has any CC available (or stealth) to secure a stomp.

DejaVu.9825:

2: Invisibility -> Moa -> shatter combo ….. target in crisis.

So a mesmer used either Decoy, Veil, or Torch to go invis…and you didn’t think to prepare yourself? What about ranger with LB 3->4->2 ‘target in crisis’? What about Thief with stealth-> Venom-> Backstab ‘Target in Crisis’?

Deal.

DejaVu.9825:

3: Moa on the tank ….

What’s a tank? Is this WoW?

1: Never seen CC from 10 seconds… Come on admit it, Moa manages PERFECTLY situation… without considering that you just stability against CC, against invisible just do AoE damage or have some CC to be used to prevent the stomp.
2: The shatter combo does much more harm of Backstab
3: Guardian defenders on pvp. Or any profession support from boredom, so kill it quickly.

Sorry English use google translator.

With #1, I’d like to say that moa is a little different from other CCs in that it does not leave you helpless, though it removes your usual skills for the 10 sec duration. It gives you plenty of damage-mitigation and even attack skills. In such a way that it is a very long CC, but not something like a 10 second stun/daze/chill/immob. Because it is not as unforgiving as the CC just listed, it also cannot be removed or avoided with stability. However, in turn, you can instead block/blind/evade this CC, which can be seen as the equivalent as an active stability.

As for #2, the invisibility should be some warning to defend, however even so a mesmer and a thief’s burst is very different in application. Thief is capable of using heart seeker and their AA very quickly together, making their combo-burst much quicker higher in a shorter amount of time. Shatter combo, however, requires some preparation over seconds in order to perform large bursts. This gives the moa, with moa skills, time to dodge or flee from the burst range.

As for #3… well, using moa on a guardian or bunker/support is just strategy. It’s a scenario where moa is made the most of, just how Supply Crate is used to do a bit of burst-recap action on a point, or how Lich is used in big fights to blast multiple opponents away at once.

Dude… no one even uses Moa, and it has been like this for a long time because it is a clearly bad Elite, specially for PvP.

The only useful Elite that Mesmer has is Mass Invis (in PvP, the only place where Elite matters), and it will not make any difference if they nerf or not Moa because no one has been using this Elite for 2 years (just for troll porpoises obviously). I am a Mesmer main and I have to deal in daily bases with the “I Win” button from Engies and Necros, with conditions everywhere from every class, cele Eles/Warriors/Engies, point blank CoD Rangers players etc, etc, etc, and as bad as it is, I learned how to deal with it all.

Then, after all that, someone comes to complain about a skill that no one uses while there are a lot of other things that are more broken and need more attention… like… sit down and think about all the game mechanics, classes, skills and specs. And then go make a research, play for a good time with the class, and after that think again and see if it is worth to complain or suggest changes about something that you don’t know about.

inhearth.2038:

Dude… no one even uses Moa, and it has been like this for a long time because it is a clearly bad Elite, specially for PvP.

The only useful Elite that Mesmer has is Mass Invis (in PvP, the only place where Elite matters), and it will not make any difference if they nerf or not Moa because no one has been using this Elite for 2 years (just for troll porpoises obviously). I am a Mesmer main and I have to deal in daily bases with the “I Win” button from Engies and Necros, with conditions everywhere from every class, cele Eles/Warriors/Engies, point blank CoD Rangers players etc, etc, etc, and as bad as it is, I learned how to deal with it all.

Then, after all that, someone comes to complain about a skill that no one uses while there are a lot of other things that are more broken and need more attention… like… sit down and think about all the game mechanics, classes, skills and specs. And then go make a research, play for a good time with the class, and after that think again and see if it is worth to complain or suggest changes about something that you don’t know about.

Actually at high level tpvp moa is used regularly.

vincecontix.1264:

inhearth.2038:

Dude… no one even uses Moa, and it has been like this for a long time because it is a clearly bad Elite, specially for PvP.

The only useful Elite that Mesmer has is Mass Invis (in PvP, the only place where Elite matters), and it will not make any difference if they nerf or not Moa because no one has been using this Elite for 2 years (just for troll porpoises obviously). I am a Mesmer main and I have to deal in daily bases with the “I Win” button from Engies and Necros, with conditions everywhere from every class, cele Eles/Warriors/Engies, point blank CoD Rangers players etc, etc, etc, and as bad as it is, I learned how to deal with it all.

Then, after all that, someone comes to complain about a skill that no one uses while there are a lot of other things that are more broken and need more attention… like… sit down and think about all the game mechanics, classes, skills and specs. And then go make a research, play for a good time with the class, and after that think again and see if it is worth to complain or suggest changes about something that you don’t know about.

Actually at high level tpvp moa is used regularly.

Yeaaah… I remember that! The only time I saw someone using it was in a joke Torney against the Chinese team or something like this. It was Helseth that used it, right? And even the casters were like “lol wtf”.

inhearth.2038:

vincecontix.1264:

inhearth.2038:

Dude… no one even uses Moa, and it has been like this for a long time because it is a clearly bad Elite, specially for PvP.

The only useful Elite that Mesmer has is Mass Invis (in PvP, the only place where Elite matters), and it will not make any difference if they nerf or not Moa because no one has been using this Elite for 2 years (just for troll porpoises obviously). I am a Mesmer main and I have to deal in daily bases with the “I Win” button from Engies and Necros, with conditions everywhere from every class, cele Eles/Warriors/Engies, point blank CoD Rangers players etc, etc, etc, and as bad as it is, I learned how to deal with it all.

Then, after all that, someone comes to complain about a skill that no one uses while there are a lot of other things that are more broken and need more attention… like… sit down and think about all the game mechanics, classes, skills and specs. And then go make a research, play for a good time with the class, and after that think again and see if it is worth to complain or suggest changes about something that you don’t know about.

Actually at high level tpvp moa is used regularly.

I know that. The only time I saw someone using it was in a joke Torney against the Chinese team or something like this. It was Helseth that used it, right? And even the casters were like “lol wtf”.

MIM Eu winners of ESL last night ran moa.

Decoy ignores ‘revealed’ so I guess you’ll have to fix that, otherwise this change won’t do anything.

+1 good idea

vincecontix.1264:

inhearth.2038:

vincecontix.1264:

inhearth.2038:

Dude… no one even uses Moa, and it has been like this for a long time because it is a clearly bad Elite, specially for PvP.

The only useful Elite that Mesmer has is Mass Invis (in PvP, the only place where Elite matters), and it will not make any difference if they nerf or not Moa because no one has been using this Elite for 2 years (just for troll porpoises obviously). I am a Mesmer main and I have to deal in daily bases with the “I Win” button from Engies and Necros, with conditions everywhere from every class, cele Eles/Warriors/Engies, point blank CoD Rangers players etc, etc, etc, and as bad as it is, I learned how to deal with it all.

Then, after all that, someone comes to complain about a skill that no one uses while there are a lot of other things that are more broken and need more attention… like… sit down and think about all the game mechanics, classes, skills and specs. And then go make a research, play for a good time with the class, and after that think again and see if it is worth to complain or suggest changes about something that you don’t know about.

Actually at high level tpvp moa is used regularly.

I know that. The only time I saw someone using it was in a joke Torney against the Chinese team or something like this. It was Helseth that used it, right? And even the casters were like “lol wtf”.

MIM Eu winners of ESL last night ran moa.

OMG :O! Dude that is some serious kitten… A high skilled team with formidable coordination and synergy, using a hard (and bad )CC efficiently? Moa should definitely be Nerfed!!

Yeah, I agree. One high end tPvP usage, definitely reasons for a nerf. Especially given how in all the other situations… oh, what? Mesmers just generally use a different elite because of how terrible Moa Morph is in general? Ah, nevermind then.

(Yes, ofc, if +you+are the one Moa’d for 10s, that’s annoying. But 180s CD, easily avoided, long cast, single target, useless outside of sPvP due to overly large team sizes – the skills has so many downsides, there’s a reason virtually no one ever uses it.)

vincecontix.1264:

inhearth.2038:

vincecontix.1264:

inhearth.2038:

Dude… no one even uses Moa, and it has been like this for a long time because it is a clearly bad Elite, specially for PvP.

The only useful Elite that Mesmer has is Mass Invis (in PvP, the only place where Elite matters), and it will not make any difference if they nerf or not Moa because no one has been using this Elite for 2 years (just for troll porpoises obviously). I am a Mesmer main and I have to deal in daily bases with the “I Win” button from Engies and Necros, with conditions everywhere from every class, cele Eles/Warriors/Engies, point blank CoD Rangers players etc, etc, etc, and as bad as it is, I learned how to deal with it all.

Then, after all that, someone comes to complain about a skill that no one uses while there are a lot of other things that are more broken and need more attention… like… sit down and think about all the game mechanics, classes, skills and specs. And then go make a research, play for a good time with the class, and after that think again and see if it is worth to complain or suggest changes about something that you don’t know about.

Actually at high level tpvp moa is used regularly.

I know that. The only time I saw someone using it was in a joke Torney against the Chinese team or something like this. It was Helseth that used it, right? And even the casters were like “lol wtf”.

MIM Eu winners of ESL last night ran moa.

99% times pro teams use MI. MI – ok.
1% of games pro teams use Moa. Moa – OP NERFZIS!

Anton.1769:

99% times pro teams use MI. MI – ok.
1% of games pro teams use Moa. Moa – OP NERFZIS!

Says a lot about human psychology, doesn’kitten :P

DanSH.6143:

Decoy ignores ‘revealed’ so I guess you’ll have to fix that, otherwise this change won’t do anything.

+1 good idea

Thats already been changed decoy doesnt ignore revel anymore.

vincecontix.1264:

DanSH.6143:

Decoy ignores ‘revealed’ so I guess you’ll have to fix that, otherwise this change won’t do anything.

+1 good idea

Thats already been changed decoy doesnt ignore revel anymore.

Good to know

How about you guys turn on the sound and if a mesmer tries to moa you from stealth, you dodge/block/deny line of sight?