Guild Wars 2

Just have a quick question about this skill in regards to pvp: Why does it exist???

Seriously, i’d be fine if it changed my 1-5 weapon skills to something less usefull, but completely removing my heal skill, all my utilities, my elite skill… that’s just plain ridiculous.
In 1v1 situations, it’s probably not going to break your game entirely, but in a fight with at least one more person where you get morphed, you’re dead.
No stunbreak/condition clear/heal, makes this skill pretty much an i-win button in so many cases.

While I agree, it is actually one of the few skills that are properly called elite. 10 seconds is a bit to long though. A good mesmer can put you down in those 10 seconds easily, unless you are running like 30k health and 3k armor.

Swim.6830:

A good mesmer can put you down in those 10 seconds easily, unless you are running like 30k health and 3k armor.

You know what even a good mesmer can’t do? Pursue efficiently. You know what defensive skill the moa morph do have?

Rocket moa shouldn’t die to the mesmer. Ever.

And complaining that against multiple opponents it gets you killed… well, you where outnumbered to begin with. What did you expect?
In this regard, time warp would get you killed even faster anyway.

Moa Morph is a potent troll skill, but nowhere near a win button.

troll class 15 characters

I don’t think I’ve ever been killed in WvW whilst in Moa form unless it’s coupled with a root. When I use Moa on people I almost always couple it with Grasping Vines or Signet Of Domination otherwise they will quite easily run away.

As soon as you’re Moa’d use Flee and Kick to make distance to a location where you can abuse LOS restrictions for the Mesmer. Then double dodge through the Mesmer when it pursues. By then Moa duration should be over and you are now ready to murder the Mesmer without Mass Invis. That Mesmer has probably also blown all his/her CDs in order to try and kill you so, GG. Alternatively, you can simply run into deep water and that will remove Moa form too.

Elidath.5679:

And complaining that against multiple opponents it gets you killed… well, you where outnumbered to begin with. What did you expect?

See, this is the thing, i was fighting outnumbered (although not at first), but i was actually winning that fight, until i got morphed, which completely turned everything around. Had i not gotten moa’d, i would have killed the elementalist that i was initially doing 1v1 against, and then either ran away from the mesmer, or killed him too if he was a baddie. So you have to understand that in the situation that i was in, it really felt to me like an i-win button.

Elidath.5679:

Swim.6830:

A good mesmer can put you down in those 10 seconds easily, unless you are running like 30k health and 3k armor.

You know what even a good mesmer can’t do? Pursue efficiently. You know what defensive skill the moa morph do have?

Rocket moa shouldn’t die to the mesmer. Ever.

And complaining that against multiple opponents it gets you killed… well, you where outnumbered to begin with. What did you expect?
In this regard, time warp would get you killed even faster anyway.

Moa Morph is a potent troll skill, but nowhere near a win button.

Yeah if only Mesmers could root/cripple from range and teleport…

Scrib.9207:

Elidath.5679:

And complaining that against multiple opponents it gets you killed… well, you where outnumbered to begin with. What did you expect?

See, this is the thing, i was fighting outnumbered (although not at first), but i was actually winning that fight, until i got morphed, which completely turned everything around. Had i not gotten moa’d, i would have killed the elementalist that i was initially doing 1v1 against, and then either ran away from the mesmer, or killed him too if he was a baddie. So you have to understand that in the situation that i was in, it really felt to me like an i-win button.

the elementalist’s mesmer team mate came to save him / her.
too bad for you.

and yes moa morph is balanced.
it can be blocked.
if the mesmer is blind, it will miss.
if the mesmer do not have line of sight, it will miss.

All you can do as a moa is run like the wind! Given their other elite choices I don’t have an issue with being moa’ed although when multiple mesmers chain it on you its rather upsetting. Instead of saying “Finish them” it should say “Why me?”.

Idm moa, but I wish the #2-4 had some purpose other than rooting yourself to take more damage. I don’t mean add damage to it or make it sustain like a regular profession but the root function is aweful.

its powerful but it also has a 180 second cooldown,

also you can stay safe by using skills like 5 and 2 along with dodges to get out of the fight and come back 10 seconds later.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

and yes moa morph is balanced.
it can be blocked.
if the mesmer is blind, it will miss.
if the mesmer do not have line of sight, it will miss.

So this is what makes it balanced huh?
Here’s an idea for ArenaNet for a new elite skill. Call it “Instant friggin death!” and it’s gonna instantly kill a target designated by the player. Sounds OP to you? Nah, it’s gonna be perfectly balanced, cuz it can be blocked, blinded or LoSed, you see.
Also, it should be usable from stealth, just like any other skill. Perfectly reasonable.

Back to moa morph, as mainly an ele player myself, i’d honestly trade all my elite skills (racial ones included) for the Moa elite. That’s how strong i think it is in the hands of a decent player.

The fact that it ignores stability is kittened.

Almost every time I get moa’d is when I’m in lich form pressuring my opponents then Poof….your boned stability be kitten ed. One classes elite should not be able to completely overpower and waist another like that.

I never had a big issue with this in WvW but it is very frustrating in spvp. Your options are to run away and potentially lose the point, or stay and hope the mesmer doesn’t automatically win the fight. I just wish it didn’t take my stunbreaks and potentially ruin my elite skill because there is little counter play besides running away.

Lurock Turoth.9085:

The fact that it ignores stability is kittened.

Almost every time I get moa’d is when I’m in lich form pressuring my opponents then Poof….your boned stability be kitten ed. One classes elite should not be able to completely overpower and waist another like that.

…so instead, one single buff should completely overpower/negate a 180 CD single-target elite?

Brilliant. \o/

Seriously though, I’d agree that it needs some balance vs. Lich Form (and Tornado). But if you change those two skills to completely IGNORE Moa Morph, it would be the same imbalance, just vice versa. Moa Morph already is crap in most situations, a change like that would make the skill completely garbage. THIS is the only point where some rebalance should be considered.

Dodge spamming, channeled blocks, Aegis, LoS, evade skills. That’s what we have in GW2 combat, and all of this stuff contributes in making Moa Morph a undesirable skill – because it already negates moa morph completely. Adding stability (and/or Tornado/Lich) as yet another hard counter should only be considered if it would be implemented with some drastic CD reductions.

Having an elite that goes on full 180s CD with the possibilty of doing NOTHING at all is what we call high risk/high reward. It is not an instant kill, stop claiming that. We all have been Moa’d, we all know it’s not true. Surviving with the charge skill and some dodges for 10 seconds is easily possible.

If you die after getting Moa’d, there’s a high chance that you would have died anyway.

Now, let me feel your hate.
°flies away°

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Scrib.9207:

Elidath.5679:

And complaining that against multiple opponents it gets you killed… well, you where outnumbered to begin with. What did you expect?

See, this is the thing, i was fighting outnumbered (although not at first), but i was actually winning that fight, until i got morphed, which completely turned everything around. Had i not gotten moa’d, i would have killed the elementalist that i was initially doing 1v1 against, and then either ran away from the mesmer, or killed him too if he was a baddie. So you have to understand that in the situation that i was in, it really felt to me like an i-win button.

the elementalist’s mesmer team mate came to save him / her.
too bad for you.

and yes moa morph is balanced.
it can be blocked.
if the mesmer is blind, it will miss.
if the mesmer do not have line of sight, it will miss.

And mesmers can’t stealth cast it neither, amirite?!
/highfive

everyone almost knows that mesmers are overpowered except mesmers that think they need buffs

So few mesmers actually take this skill. It is good for trolling, but it won’t win you a fight against someone who actually know what skills 1 to 5 do.

It is a noob catcher. Otherwise it is just for trolling. God forbid, an elite skill on a long cooldown, that can be blocked or dodged and won’t hit while blinded or out of LoS would help the mesmer to actually kill someone who is clueless or outplayed with additional rooting. Get moa’d? Dodge twice and use your escape skills. Or keep picking on the mesmer. Or run around like a headless chicken, the choice is yours.

It is worthless in WvW and PvE. Noone would ever use is over the other elites there if he/she knows what he/she is doing.

In regards of mesmers being overpowered. How many mesmers played in top end teams before the feature patch (we will have to wait for the meta (which the mesmer was not part of) to shift right now). How many of them (if you find more than one) used moa morph as elite?

All I see here is people moaning that they can not see the real mesmer between all the obvious clones or that they have no clue how moa morph actually works. Or that they lost in a 2vs1 situation while outnumbered and think that is unfair.

Elidath.5679:

You know what even a good mesmer can’t do? Pursue efficiently.

He doesn’t have too. Shatters/phantasms can do that for him. Not to mention increased GS damage with range.

Elidath.5679:

And complaining that against multiple opponents it gets you killed… well, you where outnumbered to begin with. What did you expect?

Moa Morph is a potent troll skill, but nowhere near a win button.

Outnumbered 2v1 does not mean you lose. I can fight 2v1 and win actually. And when I run bunker, I can certainly hold out until the team arrives.

This skills messes that up, suddenly I have no more heals, no more support, knockback anything. I never die in moa but that’s only because I run away from the fight. And as a bunker, losing your point because an elite completely ruined your gameplay is really garbage

If you live and they are alone, they have played their strongest hand and you can sometimes heal and kik their rump again. Its frustrating to die as a Moa but to me I don’t find it too bad unless I’m bunker MRW i escape moa death

the only thing annoying for me is that if you get hit you have no armor protection, if i use it on a heavy armor my dmg is 2 or 3 times higher. imo let the persong being moa morph keep there armor rating

Scrib.9207:

See, this is the thing, i was fighting outnumbered (although not at first), but i was actually winning that fight, until i got morphed, which completely turned everything around. Had i not gotten moa’d, i would have killed the elementalist that i was initially doing 1v1 against, and then either ran away from the mesmer, or killed him too if he was a baddie. So you have to understand that in the situation that i was in, it really felt to me like an i-win button.

Turns out he wasn’t that bad if he successfully killed you after a moa. Try it, it really is hard to pull of against someone semi-decent.
Losing a 1vs2 shouldn’t warrant any balance change ever.

Swim.6830:

Yeah if only Mesmers could root/cripple from range and teleport…

The “flee” skill evade attacks, and you can dodge in moa form. If you get cripple/rooted (and the “root” is so unreliable it might as well not exist) after getting moa’d, it is because you didn’t use flee. Your fault.
If you where crippled/rooted before… those last 2s in best case scenario. Moa takes 1s to cast, and has aftercast. So the mesmer has about half a second to kill you. Hence, you were already losing if you die then.

holodoc.5748:

He doesn’t have too. Shatters/phantasms can do that for him. Not to mention increased GS damage with range.

Neither clones nor phantasms are quicker than the mesmer itself. A moa should leave them in the dust without breaking a sweat, as it does with the mesmer.
Damage from GS is quite pitiful, if you get killed by it before getting either out of range, out of sight, or out of moa… you had no health to begin with. You died as you should, moa nonwithstanding.

Aedrion.6483:

Outnumbered 2v1 does not mean you lose. I can fight 2v1 and win actually. And when I run bunker, I can certainly hold out until the team arrives.

This skills messes that up, suddenly I have no more heals, no more support, knockback anything. I never die in moa but that’s only because I run away from the fight. And as a bunker, losing your point because an elite completely ruined your gameplay is really garbage

If you can win against 2 opponents of the same skill level, it is your spec that is op, not moa. If the opponents aren’t at your level, does moa really makes them win automatically? With all its flaws, you really should fare better.
And even then, moa is bad because it counters bunkers? For 10s each 180s? It isn’t the definition of OP, it is the definition of counterplay. And the counterplay to moa for bunkers are obvious: block, blind, LoS, invulnerability. The kind of things a bunker should be able to do.

There are problems with moa (in my eyes at least): ending other transforms, killing all necro minions, and the inconsistency between stability and blind (one prevent moa, not the other, should be none or both), being unfun (you flee it for 10s, yay for gameplay). But being generaly OP isn’t in the list.

jihm.2315:

everyone almost knows that mesmers are overpowered except mesmers that think they need buffs

When no high level team picks a class, it is rarely a sign of this class being OP. I know mesmers can be a pain to fight (PU should really die a horrible death), but “being a pain” isn’t equal to “being OP”.

If moa was good, a lot more people would use. Just a few people use, and mostly for trolling purposes. It’s really annoying, but no, moa is not OP, as already a lot of people have stated the causes.

And about the lich form/tornado, mesmer is a class that one of the designs is the counterplay of the enemy skills. Like all the interrupts that we have. Moa is how we counterplay other’s elites.

lmperdigao.2567:

If moa was good, a lot more people would use. Just a few people use, and mostly for trolling purposes. It’s really annoying, but no, moa is not OP, as already a lot of people have stated the causes.

And about the lich form/tornado, mesmer is a class that one of the designs is the counterplay of the enemy skills. Like all the interrupts that we have. Moa is how we counterplay other’s elites.

No, MOA isn’t OP, it’s just imbalanced compared to other classes’ elite skills.

And I like how mesmer is supposed to have counters for other classes, but when you can counter every single class with one build, something went wrong with the balance…

Sigh. Mesmers keeps getting nerfed because of bad gameplay in the other classes. We are at our best when other player plays worse. Confusion, clones that look like us, etc, unfamiliarity with Moa Morph skills, we rely on players who don’t spend time researching how mesmers work. Unfortunately this hits new players the worse, so I suppose its only fair that arena net nerfs us more than any other class. But honestly and truthfully, if any of you were as experienced as upper level PvP players you wouldn’t care about Moa. So please stop asking them to nerf my class more. Because unlike the other professions if you go to our forums 90% of whats being posted is mesmers being disappointed with anet again.

The absolute best use for Moa Morph is when you are fighting a keep lord and his stacks of Defiant get taken down… then you can Moa him and watch him 1 shot your team mates as a giant bird. This is fairly entertaining, but otherwise Moa is the least powerful skill in the kitten nal of Mesmer elites.

P.S. Stability keeps you from getting knocked around and stunned, Moa is not a knock back or a stun… so why would you think that it should save you?

Scrib.9207:

Elidath.5679:

And complaining that against multiple opponents it gets you killed… well, you where outnumbered to begin with. What did you expect?

See, this is the thing, i was fighting outnumbered (although not at first), but i was actually winning that fight, until i got morphed, which completely turned everything around. Had i not gotten moa’d, i would have killed the elementalist that i was initially doing 1v1 against, and then either ran away from the mesmer, or killed him too if he was a baddie. So you have to understand that in the situation that i was in, it really felt to me like an i-win button.

wait wait..

So you would have killed the ele?

You realize that if you had him downed, and the mesmer had mass invis he woulda revived him, right?

and if a moa morph spelled the end for you, you couldnt have been winning by much..