Guild Wars 2

This build is absolutely skill less, all of its knockbacks are instant cast with no animation.

There is literally no counterplay.

It is the very definition of skill-less play.

In a game of conquest where holding a point is vital, I don’t understand how a build this strong hasn’t been looked at. It’s been around for many months unchanged, but now that all the PvE and WvW bads are coming into sPvP and all they care about is winning so they can get their daily quest done, most of them are turning to cheese, unskilled builds like this.

It needs to be addressed ASAP. Not in the next feature build 4 months after the upcoming feature builds.

Each of those knockback skills need animations and cast times, it’s not something you need to sit and test internally for 3 months. It’s not something that you need to discuss for 2 months prior. It’s something that should’ve been done months ago.

There’s already some threads on this subject. Please comment in one of those.

Please list the engineer skills that are “instant cast with no animation.”
I’m genuinely curious.

Acandis.3250:

There is literally no counterplay.

Knockbacks = CC-effect
Stability = immune to CC-effects

You literally dont know what literally means.

Terrahero.9358:

Acandis.3250:

There is literally no counterplay.

Knockbacks = CC-effect
Stability = immune to CC-effects

You literally dont know what literally means.

Throw Mine says hi.

add some kind of barrier on one side of each point like in khylo at far and home point that have little fence that you can at least put your back to and not getting knocked off point, problem solved..particulary

Cynz.9437:

add some kind of barrier on one side of each point like in khylo at far and home point that have little fence that you can at least put your back to and not getting knocked off point, problem solved..particulary

Decap engineer wouldn’t be a problem if the points were bigger. As it stands, one Overcharged Shot (15 second CD, instant cast but not instant travel) can Launch an enemy back 400 units – well beyond the borders of a control point depending on initial positioning. This is then followed up with Net Shot. In the case of Stability, Throw Mine’s Toolbelt can remove up to 6 Boons and the skill itself removes 1. These are tools that have been in Engineer’s kitten nal since launch (boon removal notwithstanding). All of them would be invalidated if control points were larger than what they are right now.

The other issue is Automated Response which again, has been an immunity since launch. It’s not so much the DPS conditions of AR as it is the control conditions – Chill, Cripple, Immobilise. Engineer is quite weak to Immobilise in particular; especially JinDaVikk’s decap Engineer variant that cannot cleanse Immobilise with Med Kit. Yet at 25% HP, decap Engineer becomes a small god. It is now immune to control conditions, has high Protection uptime and the only possible weakness such a build has – DPS conditions – cannot affect it.

Removing the condition immunity of Automated Response will kill decap Engineer, straight up. In particular, JinDaVikk’s variant using Throw Mine and Med Kit. There may be other variants – like Accelerant Packed Turrets + Healing Turret + Net Turret – but without the immunity, they too, will die.

Redball.7236:

Please list the engineer skills that are “instant cast with no animation.”
I’m genuinely curious.

The main two you find on a decap engg are overcharged shot from the rifle and air blast from the flamethrower. Magnetic inversion essentially has an instant cast time as well if the engineer just spams the skill quickly (although they have to be very close range to use it like that).

Turrets can also technically have this with the accelerant-packed turret trait, although the opponent will be able to see the turrets beforehand. It is a similar case with toss mine. Personal battering ram has a fairly quick cast time, but that one is again at melee range.

They could perhaps nerf magnetic inversion by making it so that it cannot be activated until one second after activating magnetic shield. It would be a similar change to what was done to the temporal curtain skill.

As for overcharged shot, I don’t see that one getting a cast time unless they did something else to the skill, such as remove the self knockback.

Air blast could have it’s cooldown increased, although that could easily make it a skill that is never used again in any mode of play. I don’t think giving it a cast time will work because then it will not be very reliable for reflecting projectiles like it does at the moment. Maybe they could bring in a version a backdraft that must be used prior to the air blast or something.

I don’t think the mines are that much of an issue. It’s such an uncommon skill that people won’t even be used to playing against it, so they might just run across mines without even thinking. I’d consider them to be in the same vein as marks. It’s not like they’re traps that can’t be seen at all. They could perhaps put a longer casting animation on the tossing of the big mine though since that can result in an instant knock back, maybe something akin to what was done to reaper’s mark (although different motions, of course).

Yamsandjams.3267:

Redball.7236:

Please list the engineer skills that are “instant cast with no animation.”
I’m genuinely curious.

The main two you find on a decap engg are overcharged shot from the rifle and air blast from the flamethrower. Magnetic inversion essentially has an instant cast time as well if the engineer just spams the skill quickly (although they have to be very close range to use it like that).

Turrets can also technically have this with the accelerant-packed turret trait, although the opponent will be able to see the turrets beforehand. It is a similar case with toss mine. Personal battering ram has a fairly quick cast time, but that one is again at melee range.

They could perhaps nerf magnetic inversion by making it so that it cannot be activated until one second after activating magnetic shield. It would be a similar change to what was done to the temporal curtain skill.

As for overcharged shot, I don’t see that one getting a cast time unless they did something else to the skill, such as remove the self knockback.

Air blast could have it’s cooldown increased, although that could easily make it a skill that is never used again in any mode of play. I don’t think giving it a cast time will work because then it will not be very reliable for reflecting projectiles like it does at the moment. Maybe they could bring in a version a backdraft that must be used prior to the air blast or something.

I don’t think the mines are that much of an issue. It’s such an uncommon skill that people won’t even be used to playing against it, so they might just run across mines without even thinking. I’d consider them to be in the same vein as marks. It’s not like they’re traps that can’t be seen at all.

I’ve never understood why they removed Backdraft in the first place when Temporal Curtain → Into The Void was also an AOE Pull. Entire teamfights were won and lost off of Temporal Curtain, yet Backdraft was the one that became Smoke Vent. In fact, Backdraft might be just the thing to make Flamethrower worthwhile again. Maybe as a 0.5 or 1 second cast, with the longer it’s held down, the more foes are sucked into range for the burnination. It would eliminate one of the key knocks for decap Engineer, sure. But really, all that’s needed is to remove AR’s immunity.

One could possibly look at making Overcharged Shot a Charge skill that knocks back the longer it is channeled (Maximum range 400) but just functions as an Interrupt when cast instantly; same damage irrespective of casting, still cleanses snares due to self-CC.

Accelerant Packed Turrets knocking back 300 range is fine as long as Turrets aren’t buffed aside from fixing their bugs. If any changes to Turret cooldowns occur then the knockback range should absolutely decrease to 200 or 250.

Yamsandjams.3267:

They could perhaps nerf magnetic inversion by making it so that it cannot be activated until one second after activating magnetic shield. It would be a similar change to what was done to the temporal curtain skill.

And ruin its utility in combo field blasting in doing so.
Another nerf in PvE for the sake of PvP? No, thanks. I’ve had quite enough of those.

Manuhell.2759:

Yamsandjams.3267:

They could perhaps nerf magnetic inversion by making it so that it cannot be activated until one second after activating magnetic shield. It would be a similar change to what was done to the temporal curtain skill.

And ruin its utility in combo field blasting in doing so.
Another nerf in PvE for the sake of PvP? No, thanks. I’ve had quite enough of those.

I agree. It would destroy the shield as a group support tool in WvW as well and possibly root the engineer in place for 1 second until the inversion could be activated. One could no longer blast finish fields quickly on the run.

Also, Pisol-Shield is weaker for Decap Engi than Rifle: Overcharged Shot+Net Shot almost guarantees a decap alone.

apparently one of the higher up balance devs mains an engi, or so i hear

Liewec.2896:

apparently one of the higher up balance devs mains an engi, or so i hear

That would be Grouch.

hihey.1075:

Terrahero.9358:

Acandis.3250:

There is literally no counterplay.

Knockbacks = CC-effect
Stability = immune to CC-effects

You literally dont know what literally means.

Throw Mine says hi.

Excuse me while I strip your boons every 15 seconds

hihey.1075:

Throw Mine says hi.

Throw Mine only reeps one buff, Murphy’s law say meh!
The problem is Mine Field

K U T M.4539:

hihey.1075:

Terrahero.9358:

Acandis.3250:

There is literally no counterplay.

Knockbacks = CC-effect
Stability = immune to CC-effects

You literally dont know what literally means.

Throw Mine says hi.

Excuse me while I strip your boons every 15 seconds

Sorry if I confused Throw Mine with Minefield (16s CD, 5boons ripped)

hihey.1075:

K U T M.4539:

hihey.1075:

Terrahero.9358:

Acandis.3250:

There is literally no counterplay.

Knockbacks = CC-effect
Stability = immune to CC-effects

You literally dont know what literally means.

Throw Mine says hi.

Excuse me while I strip your boons every 15 seconds

Sorry if I confused Throw Mine with Minefield (16s CD, 5boons ripped)

Aaaactually due to a bug 20s CD, 5 boons ripped

Just got done spending a few days as a decap engineer.
They are very easy to beat, utterly annoying if you don’t prescriptively beat them in one or two ways, and otherwise useless to their teams.

1. Kill them at range quickly. They can’t run back fast enough to the far spawn point.
2. Take them out on the journey TO the decap point (this is their greatest vulnerability).
3. Push THEM around. They are quite easy to decap themselves as they have miserable stability.

Overall though, the builds are fairly lame. But they do take quite a bit of skill. The sheer amount of combinations you really need and timing to play it well is quite a bit more than “skillless”. That it is hard to counter (at least to avoid the initial point going neutral) there is little question. Frankly, they lack anything else of real value. In Tpvp a single engineer that is decap build is OP. In hot join if you get 2 or more, your team is at a real disadvantage TAKING the other points.

Chaba.5410:

Manuhell.2759:

Yamsandjams.3267:

They could perhaps nerf magnetic inversion by making it so that it cannot be activated until one second after activating magnetic shield. It would be a similar change to what was done to the temporal curtain skill.

And ruin its utility in combo field blasting in doing so.
Another nerf in PvE for the sake of PvP? No, thanks. I’ve had quite enough of those.

I agree. It would destroy the shield as a group support tool in WvW as well and possibly root the engineer in place for 1 second until the inversion could be activated. One could no longer blast finish fields quickly on the run.

Ah, very good point. It likely wouldn’t be necessary given the limited range of the ability anyways, and using it solely for the knockback sacrifices the useful defensive utility it provides.

Bombsaway.7198:

Just got done spending a few days as a decap engineer.
They are very easy to beat, utterly annoying if you don’t prescriptively beat them in one or two ways, and otherwise useless to their teams.

1. Kill them at range quickly. They can’t run back fast enough to the far spawn point.
2. Take them out on the journey TO the decap point (this is their greatest vulnerability).
3. Push THEM around. They are quite easy to decap themselves as they have miserable stability.

Overall though, the builds are fairly lame. But they do take quite a bit of skill. The sheer amount of combinations you really need and timing to play it well is quite a bit more than “skillless”. That it is hard to counter (at least to avoid the initial point going neutral) there is little question. Frankly, they lack anything else of real value. In Tpvp a single engineer that is decap build is OP. In hot join if you get 2 or more, your team is at a real disadvantage TAKING the other points.

I haven’t really found them too be too effective either, although perhaps I haven’t been fighting the right people (or it could just be that I suck, which is a very strong possibility).

I’ve manged to beat some I’ve encountered with a carrion p/d thief. Essentially you condi bomb them at about 1/3 HP and they usually won’t have enough condi removal to deal with it all. So their AR is doing nothing to save them and you can basically have your way with them. It doesn’t always work out like that, but killing an AR engg with condis is still quite possible, especially if all their utility is focused on decapping.

Another thing they could do is just change how the game functions. The only reason a decap engg works is because a node can be decapped in about 4 second, whereas I think it takes like 12 seconds to cap. If they increased the decap time of nodes, a decap engg build would inherently be much less effective.

We’ll likely never see decap engie get nerfed. That’s not ‘cheese’ according to the developers. Only classes they don’t play are ‘cheese’.

Decap engi is the same as any bunker except can knock off the point easier. Nerfing abilities here nerfs other builds that clearly are not overpowered.

The best way to “nerf” decap engi is to make the nodes bigger. They are WAY too small right now, and allow AOE spam and knockbocks become way too powerful.

Tsyras.5274:

Decap engi is the same as any bunker except can knock off the point easier.

So the decap engie is the same as other bunker builds, but better at defending the point.

Isn’t that sort of the definition of overpowered?

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think it’s as bad as HS warriors, but I think it does need to be toned down a little. The number of times you can get knocked down/bounced off a point is silly, especially when you consider how little effort is required to be successful at it.

I’d go so far as to say it’s a skill floor/cap problem. Right now the skill floor for decap engie is right about where the skill ceiling should be.

That is, an excellent decap engie should require 2 players to drop, but that’s the norm and not the exception.

If the game were better balanced and elementalists were viable, I’d be interested to see how well a decap engie would fare. And if wishes were fishes, then we’d all cast nets. So, the thing I think should be done is figure out how to increase the skill required for the build.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Tsyras.5274:

Decap engi is the same as any bunker except can knock off the point easier.

So the decap engie is the same as other bunker builds, but better at defending the point.

Isn’t that sort of the definition of overpowered?

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think it’s as bad as HS warriors, but I think it does need to be toned down a little. The number of times you can get knocked down/bounced off a point is silly, especially when you consider how little effort is required to be successful at it.

Well, a lot of that survivability comes from the knockbacks. Without the knockbacks the decap engi has no where near the staying power of a traditional bunker.

That’s why I said you make the nodes bigger. A decap engineer just becomes another bunker. Some of the best fights happen at mid Foefire with the huge node.

Disclaimer: I play an Engineer, but have never played a decap engi, nor do I have plan on it. I hate builds people consider cheese (why I have never bought a set or perplexity runes for roaming…as a matter of fact my rune set is considered terrible for an engineer). I am fine with them nerfing the Flamethrower knockback, buts that’s because I hate the FT.

I also don’t find bunker fun in general. I prefer being in the main fight.

Toning down the decap engineer is quite easy and doesn’t have to break or really impact engineers in general.

1. You just really need to make the nodes bigger. The only reason this works is because they are stupid small.

2. You could modify one or two traits just a tad and you would have a good but not great decapper.

3. You could limit knockbacks when you are in a node with a X% chance to miss.

You really don’t need to modify the engineer as much as reduce the gameplay that makes this (and a lot of other silly I can beat you up because you have to stay on point) builds.

I don’t know that making the nodes larger is a good idea. All the AoE abilities in the game will have been balanced with that in mind, so changing the node size means all the AoE ability sizes need to be reconsidered.

Another kind of nerf is to change certain knockbacks into knockdowns. For instance, if the air blast on flamethrower or overcharged shot on the rifle was a knockdown instead of a knockback, it would be much harder for the engg to consistently apply decapping pressure. The CC could still have an equivalent duration so that the engg could benefit from it, but it just wouldn’t allow them to decap the node since the opponent would still be on it.

This could perhaps be a PvP change only so the knockbacks still function in WvW or PvE (although I think they mentioned they want to split the abilities as little as possible).

Yamsandjams.3267:

I don’t know that making the nodes larger is a good idea. All the AoE abilities in the game will have been balanced with that in mind, so changing the node size means all the AoE ability sizes need to be reconsidered.

Another kind of nerf is to change certain knockbacks into knockdowns. For instance, if the air blast on flamethrower or overcharged shot on the rifle was a knockdown instead of a knockback, it would be much harder for the engg to consistently apply decapping pressure. The CC could still have an equivalent duration so that the engg could benefit from it, but it just wouldn’t allow them to decap the node since the opponent would still be on it.

This could perhaps be a PvP change only so the knockbacks still function in WvW or PvE (although I think they mentioned they want to split the abilities as little as possible).

No, making nodes larger will not require that AOE ability sizes be reworked. Indeed, by diminishing the overall power of AOE in sPVP, one can begin to notice the relative strengths and weaknesses of each professions’ AOE attacks. Right now the AOE attacks of many classes simply cover the whole point – or indeed, eclipse its area entirely; i.e. Level 3 Combustive Shot having an AOE Radius of 360, or traited Big Ol’ Bomb. The counterplay to some of these huge AOEs is having the evade frames to cope with it, or overwhelming sustain. Larger points will force tactical placement of AOE rather than “aim at the middle, force dodges” play that we see right now.

Similarly, decap engineer will be significantly weaker when points are larger. Without the massive Boon output of bunker Guardian, or overwhelming regeneration of bunker Warrior, decap engineer simply becomes another bunker that uses CC as its survival mechanic. On Legacy of the Foefire, for example, decap Engineer has significantly less impact as a decapper when assaulting mid. The size of the point has essentially reduced the efficacy of the build.

Anyway, as I and other posters have mentioned in this thread, remove the immunity of Automated Response and replace it with something promoting a skill floor and builds like JinDaVikk’s Decap Engineer will cease to exist. Well, they will still exist, but they will die to any 2v1 and hold any 1v1 forever – which seems to be the balance point for most bunkers.

A lot of other things can be addressed and inadvertently destroy Engineer viability in other areas; but nerfing AR is pretty much the safest and most effective thing to do against decap Engineer right now.

Yams is the winner. What a brilliant idea.

When in a node, all knockbacks become knockdowns.
Now you have more than solved the problem.

Bombsaway.7198:

Yams is the winner. What a brilliant idea.

When in a node, all knockbacks become knockdowns.
Now you have more than solved the problem.

I second this. Also, this would help with skills like “Blunderbuss”, since it does more damage the closer you are to the target.

AR has to be removed and best would be with a hotfix

every match now is a decap engi and its not fun to play against this bullkitten

Why do engineers have a 3 second block on a 16 second recharge?

Why is it not a 30 second recharge?

Engineers, can do everything better.
Let the conditions run rampant!

Nova Stiker.8396:

Why do engineers have a 3 second block on a 16 second recharge?

Because Shield Block also reflects projectiles back, thats why Shield Block is 20seconds.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Why do engineers have a 3 second block on a 16 second recharge?

Why is it not a 30 second recharge?

Engineers, can do everything better.
Let the conditions run rampant!

I’d imagine for two reasons.
1: To avoid redundant skills. They have a block for melee range attackers, a block for ranged attacks and a block for both. Each fills a nice role and does something better than the others. Mobility+Stun on block, No mobility+reflect+blast finisher/knockdown, Mobility+Plain block
2: To make up for the fact that to have that 16 sec cd block they need to use a utility slot and go 20 points into a traitline.

Bombsaway.7198:

Yams is the winner. What a brilliant idea.

When in a node, all knockbacks become knockdowns.
Now you have more than solved the problem.

There are already no reasons to use a flamethrower apart from air blast and, occasionally, smoke vent. Whoever would even touch it after such a change?
Same for throw mine.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Why do engineers have a 3 second block on a 16 second recharge?

Why is it not a 30 second recharge?

Engineers, can do everything better.
Let the conditions run rampant!

1. A engi don’t get as same amount of HP ,armor, and passive heal as a warrior. And a engi don’t get as many evade skill from weapon as thief or ranger, don’t get second HP pool as necro or clones as mesmer.

2. A mace/ shield warrior got 2 blocks, one block melee only once with 10 secs recharge, the other one can block 3 secs every 24 secs/ 30 secs, or can be traited with reflect function.

3. Engi need 1 utility slot to get that 20 secs recharge block skill.

I don’t get where’s the logic that engi do everything better, don’t just comment with recharge time.

Acandis.3250:

all they care about is winning

Are you serious? As opposed to what?

Marsuew.8216:

Nova Stiker.8396:

Why do engineers have a 3 second block on a 16 second recharge?

Why is it not a 30 second recharge?

Engineers, can do everything better.
Let the conditions run rampant!

1. A engi don’t get as same amount of HP ,armor, and passive heal as a warrior. And a engi don’t get as many evade skill from weapon as thief or ranger, don’t get second HP pool as necro or clones as mesmer.

2. A mace/ shield warrior got 2 blocks, one block melee only once with 10 secs recharge, the other one can block 3 secs every 24 secs/ 30 secs, or can be traited with reflect function.

3. Engi need 1 utility slot to get that 20 secs recharge block skill.

I don’t get where’s the logic that engi do everything better, don’t just comment with recharge time.

The base stat difference is almost nothing. Engineers can have far far far far far better healing than a Warrior could ever dream of. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elixir_R
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Adrenaline_Pump
Also mentioning clones is a laugh since any decent player knows where the Mesmer is at any time not stealthed.

The mace block only blocks one attack so if you use any attack at all it is gone. Warrior shield gives 2 skills and takes up the off hand slot, Engineer Tool Kit takes up a utility slot and gives 6 skills with a far better version of the block. The reflect takes up the same trait slot as the cooldown reduction trait, Dogged March and Sure-Footed. If you see a projectile reflect maybe just stop attacking since it will be blocked anyways?

I really don’t know how people can complain about Healing Signet when Healing Turret is 50% better if you have just 1 ally around at all and is still almost equal not even counting the condition removal or rune synergy. Also it actually scales with healing power far better than most skills.

glaphen.5230:

Marsuew.8216:

Nova Stiker.8396:

Why do engineers have a 3 second block on a 16 second recharge?

Why is it not a 30 second recharge?

Engineers, can do everything better.
Let the conditions run rampant!

1. A engi don’t get as same amount of HP ,armor, and passive heal as a warrior. And a engi don’t get as many evade skill from weapon as thief or ranger, don’t get second HP pool as necro or clones as mesmer.

2. A mace/ shield warrior got 2 blocks, one block melee only once with 10 secs recharge, the other one can block 3 secs every 24 secs/ 30 secs, or can be traited with reflect function.

3. Engi need 1 utility slot to get that 20 secs recharge block skill.

I don’t get where’s the logic that engi do everything better, don’t just comment with recharge time.

The base stat difference is almost nothing. Engineers can have far far far far far better healing than a Warrior could ever dream of. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elixir_R
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Adrenaline_Pump
Also mentioning clones is a laugh since any decent player knows where the Mesmer is at any time not stealthed.

The mace block only blocks one attack so if you use any attack at all it is gone. Warrior shield gives 2 skills and takes up the off hand slot, Engineer Tool Kit takes up a utility slot and gives 6 skills with a far better version of the block. The reflect takes up the same trait slot as the cooldown reduction trait, Dogged March and Sure-Footed. If you see a projectile reflect maybe just stop attacking since it will be blocked anyways?

I really don’t know how people can complain about Healing Signet when Healing Turret is 50% better if you have just 1 ally around at all and is still almost equal not even counting the condition removal or rune synergy. Also it actually scales with healing power far better than most skills.

Are you even real? From what universe did you phase from into ours?

Terrahero.9358:

Are you even real? From what universe did you phase from into ours?

Amazing, you completely destroyed my argument.

glaphen.5230:

The base stat difference is almost nothing. Engineers can have far far far far far better healing than a Warrior could ever dream of. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elixir_R
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Adrenaline_Pump
Also mentioning clones is a laugh since any decent player knows where the Mesmer is at any time not stealthed.

The mace block only blocks one attack so if you use any attack at all it is gone. Warrior shield gives 2 skills and takes up the off hand slot, Engineer Tool Kit takes up a utility slot and gives 6 skills with a far better version of the block. The reflect takes up the same trait slot as the cooldown reduction trait, Dogged March and Sure-Footed. If you see a projectile reflect maybe just stop attacking since it will be blocked anyways?

I really don’t know how people can complain about Healing Signet when Healing Turret is 50% better if you have just 1 ally around at all and is still almost equal not even counting the condition removal or rune synergy. Also it actually scales with healing power far better than most skills.

FYI Cleansing Burst, the Turret overcharge always does 2520 healing, even with 20000000000000000000000 healing power. So, might wanna fact check your ‘scales with healing power far better than most skills’ fact.

Acandis.3250:

Each of those knockback skills need animations and cast times, it’s not something you need to sit and test internally for 3 months. It’s not something that you need to discuss for 2 months prior. It’s something that should’ve been done months ago.

No. Automated response needs a significant re-direction ASAP. You don’t need to kick Flamethrower and Rifle builds in the nuts so eagerly when there are many less intrusive fixes, in regards to already weak builds.

The fact that Overcharge Shot and Air Blast are so precise, are to actually carry those terribad weapons via active disruption. Flamethrower as a weapon set is carried pretty hard by the 3 skill, we’ll just say that. Rifle is carried hard by Overcharged Shot, too.

Another good reason why Engi Knockbacks such as Air Blast and Overcharged Shot don’t have cast times, are because they serve as clutch projectile push backs, and immob/chill/cripple cleanses, respectively.

If both of the weapon’s budget wasn’t purposefully dumped into making Overcharge Shot and Air Blast instant, I would for sure agree with your assessment.

Either way, Decap Engineer is here to stay – I have serious doubt that there is any change coming on March 18th. It will have to be the next balance pass after that. If the update pattern holds up, then probably mid-late May before Decap Engineer is touched, lol.

I’m hoping for a hotfix (re-purposing) of Automated Response, but I’m about 75% sure it’s just going to slip through the cracks.

I’d say the only hope to curve this disgusting decap playstyle that hinges on holding 20% HP for 120 seconds is to hope for a hotfix to the trait. That’s the hands down, best way to not affect existing Engineer builds that are both honest and challenging. If the trait were obliterated, it would pretty much affect no damage, or teamfight focused Engineers negatively. The biggest reason for my hatred against Automated Response is that it is purposefully designed to troll the hell out of people in 1v1s and rob them of their rightful downing of their enemy, while simultaneously being completely freaking useless in teamfights.

Chaith.8256:

glaphen.5230:

The base stat difference is almost nothing. Engineers can have far far far far far better healing than a Warrior could ever dream of. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elixir_R
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Adrenaline_Pump
Also mentioning clones is a laugh since any decent player knows where the Mesmer is at any time not stealthed.

The mace block only blocks one attack so if you use any attack at all it is gone. Warrior shield gives 2 skills and takes up the off hand slot, Engineer Tool Kit takes up a utility slot and gives 6 skills with a far better version of the block. The reflect takes up the same trait slot as the cooldown reduction trait, Dogged March and Sure-Footed. If you see a projectile reflect maybe just stop attacking since it will be blocked anyways?

I really don’t know how people can complain about Healing Signet when Healing Turret is 50% better if you have just 1 ally around at all and is still almost equal not even counting the condition removal or rune synergy. Also it actually scales with healing power far better than most skills.

FYI Cleansing Burst, the Turret overcharge always does 2520 healing, even with 20000000000000000000000 healing power. So, might wanna fact check your ‘scales with healing power far better than most skills’ fact.

Healing Turret-.5
Regenerationx5-.625
Blast Finisher-.2
.2 per other blast finisher or leap casting within water field

Only skills with similar scaling are Healing Spring and Well of Blood which both require you to sit in them for 10 seconds and especially the fact that Healing Turret is mostly AoE healing on low cooldown while the other two are mainly self healing or require healing power for group.

I actually agree that the problem could probably be fixed by just fixing automated response. Instant knockbacks aren’t a problem if the guy is killable in reasonable time. Look at Teldo’s old build – he used the knock-backs to get decaps, but he also specced to actually kill opponents. If the person playing the build wasn’t very good, they would get destroyed using his build.

This does need a severe pvp nerf. Of course every other Engineer build needs a buff…

glaphen.5230:

Terrahero.9358:

Are you even real? From what universe did you phase from into ours?

Amazing, you completely destroyed my argument.

Actually, Healing Turret is not the “meta” heal for Decap Engineer, in case you weren’t aware of JinDaVikk’s Decap Engineer build . The reasoning is that due to wanting to exploit Automated Response’s 25% HP threshold, burst healing on the level of Healing Turret is actually suboptimal, as opponents could simply wait until the heal was burned, then condi burst without fear of AR kicking back in. In the mean time, Necro Scepter 1 or any other poison application could be used to reduce the window of reaction that Engineer has once the threshold is passed.

Healing Turret is strong, yes. In some variations that use Accelerant Packed Turrets, it is even stronger. However those variations of the AR Decap engineer build have unique weaknesses to the typical condi-bunker backpoint holders and especially to Thieves that makes it suboptimal.

Nerf Automated Response, and decap Engineer’s matchups against the typical backpoint holder as well as Thieves will become immediately bad – for the Engineer. Looking to nerf Healing Turret when it is the inferior heal for this build (and somehow segueing into Healing Signet discussion) is the wrong direction and has knock-on effects of nerfing many other ancillary Engineer builds.

Simply remove AR’s condition immunity to be replaced by a mechanic that requires cooldowns like On Toolbelt Use to clear conditions, and you immediately kill off decap Engineer whilst bringing up Engineer’s condition cleanse in general.

Knockbacks like Overcharged Shot could do with some looking at, but not before AR is nerfed. Doing so risks the viability of Power Engineer, a setup that is already suboptimal.