(edited by pierwola.9602)
[PvX]Bring Warriors into line.
1 2
I’m very much in favor of the Last Stand change proposal. IMO this trait contributes a lot to warrior being some sort of auto-mode profession with a lousy reputation.
As far as signet of restoration goes, are you referring to weapons skills? For starters, warriors do not use or cast spells of any kind outside of the magically imbued signets. Which are not spells in themselves. As well, It would be out of line to grant heal for every skill activated. For example in the elementalist (where it appears you are copying this from, so you lose points for an absolute lack of originality) because it should not heal if you cast an elite or utility skill.
Yay, finally more people complain warrior is OP. I thought for after the patch warrior has fall out of favor.
Another HS is too OP.
Another HS is too OP.
What I got from it wasn’t that it was OP but that it’s lazily passive. All he suggests is that something active be done to reap the benefits like all the other classes.
Warriors
Healing Signet: Grants regeneration.
Suggestion: Grants 3sec regeneration when you attack. Stack up to 3 sec.
So cut Healing Signet from 370 hp/s to … 130 hp/s?
In case you missed it, the point with a Warrior is to have defenses without having defensive boons. Warriors instead get the best access to offensive boons like Might and Fury.
You can argue all day that “every other profession is making due without 370 hp/s passive healing”, but if you look into what every other profession gets, you’ll see plenty of Regeneration, Protection, Aegis, Blind, Evade or… Stealth. Warrior won’t be getting the first three because those are for Guardians and I doubt anyone wants Warriors to have ample access to Blinds, Evade or Stealth.
The issue with Healing Signet is not that the passive is too strong, it’s that there is literally no reason to use the active, this is something even the developers acknowledge. So please, shut up about Healing Signet until they change the active.
Last Stand: Negates the control effect and activates Balanced Stance.
Suggestion: Activates Balanced Stance after the 1st CC disappear.
Seriously? People actually think Last Stand is OP? Did you, like, actually look at what it’s competing against? Defense is absolutely full of traits better than Last Stand. Out of the four Master traits, two are far, far more popular and useful than Last Stand.
What I got from it wasn’t that it was OP but that it’s lazily passive. All he suggests is that something active be done to reap the benefits like all the other classes.
If that was his point, he would have suggested that the Signet grant its healing effect while in combat. Instead he changed it to Regeneration, which is 130 hp/s instead of 370 hp/s and can be ripped, stolen or converted to a condition. That is a massively inferior situation.
Oh and btw, Signet of Rage already has a passive that works only while in combat so that’s not exactly a new thing either.
(edited by Olba.5376)
Warriors
Healing Signet: Grants regeneration.
Suggestion: Grants 3sec regeneration when you attack. Stack up to 3 sec.So cut Healing Signet from 370 hp/s to … 130 hp/s?
In case you missed it, the point with a Warrior is to have defenses without having defensive boons. Warriors instead get the best access to offensive boons like Might and Fury.
You can argue all day that “every other profession is making due without 370 hp/s passive healing”, but if you look into what every other profession gets, you’ll see plenty of Regeneration, Protection, Aegis, Blind, Evade or… Stealth. Warrior won’t be getting the first three because those are for Guardians and I doubt anyone wants Warriors to have ample access to Blinds, Evade or Stealth.
The issue with Healing Signet is not that the passive is too strong, it’s that there is literally no reason to use the active, this is something even the developers acknowledge. So please, shut up about Healing Signet until they change the active.
Last Stand: Negates the control effect and activates Balanced Stance.
Suggestion: Activates Balanced Stance after the 1st CC disappear.Seriously? People actually think Last Stand is OP? Did you, like, actually look at what it’s competing against? Defense is absolutely full of traits better than Last Stand. Out of the four Master traits, two are far, far more popular and useful than Last Stand.
What I got from it wasn’t that it was OP but that it’s lazily passive. All he suggests is that something active be done to reap the benefits like all the other classes.
If that was his point, he would have suggested that the Signet grant its healing effect while in combat. Instead he changed it to Regeneration, which is 130 hp/s instead of 370 hp/s and can be ripped, stolen or converted to a condition. That is a massively inferior situation.
Oh and btw, Signet of Rage already has a passive that works only while in combat so that’s not exactly a new thing either.
I want HS to be on hit. Signet of malice is 130-160 HP per HIT so it’s only useful while staying engaged, unlike HS which is useful while running away ect.
-BelieveGate-
Anet please nerf Paper, Scissors is fine -Rock.
Anet please nerf Paper, Scissors is fine -Rock.
Warriors
Healing Signet: Grants regeneration.
Suggestion: Grants 3sec regeneration when you attack. Stack up to 3 sec.So cut Healing Signet from 370 hp/s to ... 130 hp/s?
In case you missed it, the point with a Warrior is to have defenses *without having defensive boons*. Warriors instead get the best access to offensive boons like Might and Fury.
You can argue all day that "every other profession is making due without 370 hp/s passive healing", but if you look into what every other profession gets, you’ll see plenty of Regeneration, Protection, Aegis, Blind, Evade or... Stealth. Warrior won’t be getting the first three because those are for Guardians and I doubt anyone wants Warriors to have ample access to Blinds, Evade or Stealth.
The issue here: Warriors are meant to have very high survivability. Note the high HP pool, high armour bracket. They get both of these things and still hit like trucks.
Right now, they have access to high base health and armour, massive health regen that requires no player interaction and several powerful immunities (with few downsides, if any - other classes’ invulnerabilities stop them from contesting capture points, but apparently Warriors don’t follow the same rules).
It’s all just too much - their lore states that they tend to struggle with conditions, but with Cleansing Ire as it is, this isn’t the case either. Sure, it’s pretty much mandatory if a Warrior wants to survive condition bursts... but everyone else has to sacrifice a lot more than 20 trait points for such good cleanse while still dealing heavy damage (and usually control).
The issue with Healing Signet is not that the passive is too strong, it’s that *there is literally no reason to use the active*, this is something even the developers acknowledge. So please, *shut up about Healing Signet until they change the active*.
No, the passive is too strong. The active does suck, but the very high regen from the passive means that even a half-decent active effect would be largely ignored.
What needs to happen is for the passive to get nerfed a little more (though not too much; while I’m sick of HS on Wars I don’t want it gone entirely) and for the active effects and cooldown to be greatly increased - this makes the War back into a powerful, tanky fighter, who has a lot of survivability but can’t keep it up indefinitely on their own. They can activate their signet, get a powerful burst of healing, and either carry on fighting (possibly getting killed) or retreat (as so many WvW Wars are very proficient at) then stay out of combat for a while. With a sufficiently powerful active heal, I wouldn’t say a 40s untraited cooldown was too long.
Edit: yes I suck at synonyms, and said ’powerful’ too much. Strong, effective, good, reliable. Some of those may be better words.
(edited by cheese.4739)
C’mon Harper, you forgot to do Engineer and Guardian.
If you want to go off the balance philosophies though, the warrior truly needs less condition removal options then they currently have. If your going to defend an extra 25,000-30,000 HP per minute, that is absolutely passive, you have to realize how that effects conditions, which they are absolutely supposed to have problems with and need assistance to deal with, yet they do not.
C’mon Harper, you forgot to do Engineer and Guardian.
If you want to go off the balance philosophies though, the warrior truly needs less condition removal options then they currently have. If your going to defend an extra 25,000-30,000 HP per minute, that is absolutely passive, you have to realize how that effects conditions, which they are absolutely supposed to have problems with and need assistance to deal with, yet they do not.
The OP didn’t mention them but I feel that Engineer is something we don’t even want to bring up here considering how OP they are at the moment.
Guardian is fine.
people keep going on about this condition thing – but fail to realize the obvious aspect : If the devs still wanted conditions to be so effective they wouldn’t have given out the mitigation tools for warriors to deal with them.
It’s as simple as that – it’s obvious that they’ve decided that warrior needs these in order to be competitive against the condi spam meta. You can argue all you want but the proof is right here.
If you make warriors weak against condis they’ll be free kills again * since we have no means to mitigate them being applied – aka avoiding them* like other classes do.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Awww, no your going to take the, contradicting your line of logic’ path are ya? What a shame. So you want to use the balance philosophy when it suits your argument, yet, when it doesn’t, you state that is irrelevant. You work in politics don’t you?
If you make warriors weak against condis they’ll be free kills again * since we have no means to mitigate them being applied – aka avoiding them* like other classes do.
Please educate us. What do other professions have that prevent attacks from landing that warriors do not?
(edited by dancingmonkey.4902)
Uh… yeah. First, taking it out of context is bad practice. Second, I’m not going to look at every bit of detail, only the first thoughts that came to mind. One of which is Armour of Earth. I noticed you chose to leave that out, and it works exactly the same way as last stand. The only difference is the cool down.
The much despised healing signet… Healing signet out performs all other class healing skills. (It can’t compare to signet of malice because that’s OP in PvE. It’s per hit – meaning detonate cluster bomb on a group of mobs is a nice health return.)
Warriors have nowhere near as much damage avoid/mitigation as Thieves or Mesmers.
Please.
Endure pain via skill: Invulnerability – only excludes conditions already applied.
Endure pain via trait: Invulnerability – only excludes conditions already applied.
Berserker stance: Immunity to conditions excluding those already applied.
The above stance durations can be increased by 25%.
Signet of Stamina: Cleanse ALL conditions, something thieves could only do with Lyssa runes before the 15 April patch.
Cleansing Ire: Cure conditions, while damaging either significantly, or moderately with either burning, bleeding, or a long duration stun.
Ample supply of stuns, dazes and knock-backs via hammer, mace, shield, burst skills and physical utility skills.
Blocks on shield, mace, and sword.
Of course, as someone already rightly pointed out, we shouldn’t take things out of context, so I’ll finish up by saying – during that period of invulnerability and blocking, they are not simply taking no damage, but healing due to healing signet’s passive.
So…
Heal? OP and passive! Easy mode.
Need to evade? But I want to DPS. No problem! Dodge for a 3k crit AoE! Easy mode.
Conditions? But I want to DPS. Oh, right. 1 button to win. Burst, cleanse, damage, stun blah blah. Easy mode.
Conditions? 1 button to win and cleanse all! +50% endurance regen when not on cool down! Easy mode.
Anticipating conditions? 1 button to win! Condition immunity! Also gain some adrenaline. Why not? Easy mode.
Incoming burst? Which block shall I use… so many to choose from. Shall I use Endure Pain? No worries, it’ll automatically active for me if I need it! Easy mode.
And yet, they get killed often enough. They are not OP as a whole. Powerful, yes. Effective, yes. But then so is any decent player with a decent build on any class… The issue really is with the low skill cap, making it as effective as another class and someone with far superior skill. Warrior is very forgiving. It can just keep on fighting, until it dies, which will take time. Warriors are naturally bunker-types. They will try to burst you, sure, but ultimately they are trying to out last you, because they are not versatile enough for anything else. They use the same tricks over and over until it works. They have a rotation. They can’t pick an attunement to access an ability to counter something their opponent just did. They can either try to evade, block, or eat the damage, and you should be able to anticipate which they will do. They can’t blind, or hide. They can’t command AI, drop traps, or tap into a second health pool that heals as percentage of the total pool as opposed to scaling with healing power. They are wooden and predictable.
But you can’t kill this warrior? So what. I bet there’s a necro, guardian, engineer, ranger, mesmer, elementalist, and even a thief out there who if builds to survive, you will not be able to kill either.
There are things I would like to see toned down or reduced in effectiveness for warrior, but they are other aspects and therefore off-topic.
EU | Ímpáct / Impact Warlock / Impact Illusions
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Necromancers have the same HP while having access to another life bar and the on-cast signet allows for very good sustain if used properly.
The necro signet is only bad…
Against any decent player all the other heals give better sustain than vampire signet. So plz dont say it gives good sustain…
If you want to propose these changes, then please consider this as well, since you like to nitpick individual traits that the warrior has that are better than other classes.
"Stick and Move": Grants 3% extra damage when endurance is not full. For a grandmaster minor this is severely lackluster.
Every Tactics minor trait is lackluster and useless.
Please give us Grandmasters that are not Brawlers Recovery, Burst Precision, Phalanx Strength or Rousing Resilience.
Buff Mending so it is in line with other heals. Give us utilities that are not so dull and interesting.
And warriors do absolutely have problems with conditions if they use any weapon outside of a Longbow and possibly a hammer.
(edited by killahmayne.9518)
If you want to propose these changes, then please consider this as well, since you like to nitpick individual traits that the warrior has that are better than other classes.
“Stick and Move”: Grants 3% extra damage when endurance is not full. For a grandmaster minor this is severely lackluster.
Ohhh we’re onto proper argument now.
GRANDMASTER MINORS
Let’s look at an Ele GM minor: Arcane Precision.
Yeah, talk about your GM minors. Please. They’re totally relevant.
If you want to propose these changes, then please consider this as well, since you like to nitpick individual traits that the warrior has that are better than other classes.
"Stick and Move": Grants 3% extra damage when endurance is not full. For a grandmaster minor this is severely lackluster.
Ohhh we’re onto proper argument now.
GRANDMASTER MINORS
Let’s look at an Ele GM minor: Arcane Precision.
Yeah, talk about your GM minors. Please. They’re totally relevant.
Yup, I can nitpick more traits/skills like the OP has in the context of other classes, want me to keep going? This whole thread is irrelevent to begin with when he started comparing traits/skills between classes which is a rather poor justification for nerfs and just leads to a bunch of rambling and incoherency.
(edited by killahmayne.9518)
Yup, I can nitpick more traits/skills like the OP has in the context of other classes, want me to keep going? This whole thread is irrelevent to begin with when he started comparing traits/skills between classes which is a rather poor justification for nerfs and just leads to a bunch of rambling and incoherency.
Or we can get back to the not nitpicking: compared to any other class, Warriors have a waaaay higher survivability/damage ratio than anyone else*.
Also that’s some pro debating there, bringing up the flaws of one person (the OP) when trying to argue a point against another. A+. Since you’re so terrible at this I can clearly declare your argument as invalid.
*power damage. Condi is stupid… but Warriors have strong condi builds available to them and can still take their immuinty skills and traits.
@Op the main reason i can say that warriors are built this way is one simple reason.
Warriors are meant to be the easiest class in the game to just pick up and run with. This class isn’t meant to provide some uber challenge with it’s mechanics. It is supposed to be the lowest skill floor class in the game. Which is why it’s traits are as such as well as healing signet.
The downside to this is that certain other classes when playing their best should do better than a mediocre warrior playing at a mediocre level. However this is not so.
So the traits and skills you bring up don’t need adjusted IMO but other classes do need their risk/reward ratio improved. Right now warriors are not only easy mode but easy to do extremely well on.
(this can be said for other specs in other classes but is the most glaring for warriors.)
So cut Healing Signet from 370 hp/s to … 130 hp/s?
In case you missed it, the point with a Warrior is to have defenses without having defensive boons. Warriors instead get the best access to offensive boons like Might and Fury.
You can argue all day that “every other profession is making due without 370 hp/s passive healing”, but if you look into what every other profession gets, you’ll see plenty of Regeneration, Protection, Aegis, Blind, Evade or… Stealth. Warrior won’t be getting the first three because those are for Guardians and I doubt anyone wants Warriors to have ample access to Blinds, Evade or Stealth.
If that was his point, he would have suggested that the Signet grant its healing effect while in combat. Instead he changed it to Regeneration, which is 130 hp/s instead of 370 hp/s and can be ripped, stolen or converted to a condition. That is a massively inferior situation.
Grants regeneration. Even in game you have Grants regeneration. !!!
Seriously? People actually think Last Stand is OP? Did you, like, actually look at what it’s competing against? Defense is absolutely full of traits better than Last Stand. Out of the four Master traits, two are far, far more popular and useful than Last Stand.
And that’s your argument ? Leave necro/ranger alone we have at least two/three more popular class.
For me the only reason why Last Stand negated 1st CC is because Anet is too lazy to change the copy/patse (and forget) work style. Stun break
Yup, I can nitpick more traits/skills like the OP has in the context of other classes, want me to keep going? This whole thread is irrelevent to begin with when he started comparing traits/skills between classes which is a rather poor justification for nerfs and just leads to a bunch of rambling and incoherency.
Or we can get back to the not nitpicking: compared to any other class, Warriors have a waaaay higher survivability/damage ratio than anyone else*.
Also that’s some pro debating there, bringing up the flaws of one person (the OP) when trying to argue a point against another. A+. Since you’re so terrible at this I can clearly declare your argument as invalid.
*power damage. Condi is stupid... but Warriors have strong condi builds available to them and can still take their immuinty skills and traits.
I’m sorry, I wasn’t aware that the original post wasn’t taking a trait and taking a skill (which is nitpicking) and using that alone to suggest that the warrior is out of line (sarcasm).
Warriors have a way higher ratio/survivability than every one else? So basically you throw a blanket statement as if it is a fact and sarcastically say I am a pro debater? I find that pretty ironic.
I never brought up any so called "flaws" or made an attack on anybody personally. I only brought up flaws in the argument and why it is a bad idea to nerf things based on looking at the trait in a vacuum without considering the class in its entirety. Apparently criticizing the logic behind an argument it isn’t as pro as using untrue accusations as you so kindly have.
But hey, somebody who blatently accused me of something which is untrue says my argument is invalid so it must be true! I should be scared because he declared it!
(edited by killahmayne.9518)
Awww, no your going to take the, contradicting your line of logic’ path are ya? What a shame. So you want to use the balance philosophy when it suits your argument, yet, when it doesn’t, you state that is irrelevant. You work in politics don’t you?
If you make warriors weak against condis they’ll be free kills again * since we have no means to mitigate them being applied – aka avoiding them* like other classes do.
Please educate us. What do other professions have that prevent attacks from landing that warriors do not?
Blinds, aegis, stealth, clones, blinks.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Please.
Endure pain via skill: Invulnerability – only excludes conditions already applied.
Endure pain via trait: Invulnerability – only excludes conditions already applied.
Berserker stance: Immunity to conditions excluding those already applied.
The above stance durations can be increased by 25%.
Signet of Stamina: Cleanse ALL conditions, something thieves could only do with Lyssa runes before the 15 April patch.
Cleansing Ire: Cure conditions, while damaging either significantly, or moderately with either burning, bleeding, or a long duration stun.
Ample supply of stuns, dazes and knock-backs via hammer, mace, shield, burst skills and physical utility skills.
Blocks on shield, mace, and sword.
Please stop misleading people.
Endure Pain and Defy Pain do not grant invulnerability. Please read : http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Pain
You are still susceptible to CC and conditions.
Same goes for Berserker Stance – you can still be damaged by direct damage and CC.
Of course, as someone already rightly pointed out, we shouldn’t take things out of context, so I’ll finish up by saying – during that period of invulnerability and blocking, they are not simply taking no damage, but healing due to healing signet’s passive.
Looking at what I’ve posted above we can pretty much see how the “taking no damage” period is simply made up.
Endure Pain lasts for 4 seconds. 5 if traited. During those 5 seconds the warrior will heal the amazing amount of – wait for it – 370 × 5 = 1,850 HP. So OP.
Need to evade? But I want to DPS. No problem! Dodge for a 3k crit AoE! Easy mode.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reckless_Dodge via this?
I’m entirely sure this part is made up unless you post some proof.
Conditions? 1 button to win and cleanse all! +50% endurance regen when not on cool down! Easy mode.
You do realize this signet has a 45 second cool down right? Use it once and it’s gone for the rest of your fight.
Anticipating conditions? 1 button to win! Condition immunity! Also gain some adrenaline. Why not? Easy mode.
Incoming burst? Which block shall I use… so many to choose from. Shall I use Endure Pain? No worries, it’ll automatically active for me if I need it! Easy mode.
And how is the fact that you are anticipating something and counterplaying it an issue? 8 seconds of being safe from condis is on a 60 second cooldown.
And yet, they get killed often enough. They are not OP as a whole. Powerful, yes. Effective, yes. But then so is any decent player with a decent build on any class… The issue really is with the low skill cap, making it as effective as another class and someone with far superior skill. Warrior is very forgiving. It can just keep on fighting, until it dies, which will take time. Warriors are naturally bunker-types. They will try to burst you, sure, but ultimately they are trying to out last you, because they are not versatile enough for anything else. They use the same tricks over and over until it works. They have a rotation. They can’t pick an attunement to access an ability to counter something their opponent just did. They can either try to evade, block, or eat the damage, and you should be able to anticipate which they will do. They can’t blind, or hide. They can’t command AI, drop traps, or tap into a second health pool that heals as percentage of the total pool as opposed to scaling with healing power. They are wooden and predictable.
But you can’t kill this warrior? So what. I bet there’s a necro, guardian, engineer, ranger, mesmer, elementalist, and even a thief out there who if builds to survive, you will not be able to kill either.
There are things I would like to see toned down or reduced in effectiveness for warrior, but they are other aspects and therefore off-topic.
Warriors as you’ve mentioned it might be easier to play effectively than other classes – but the trade-off is that if you’re incredibly skilled you can’t improve your performance much. That’s the trade off that people fail to see.
In the high-end PVP areas of the game warrior’s telegraphed animations are its downfall. And sadly this won’t change.
You said the class is easy to pick up and play – I have news for you – this is working as intended. Anet always said they want Warrior to be the class people pick when they first start out with GW2. It makes sense that their skill floor is lower but the trade-off is that their skill cap is also lower. You can be incredibly good on a warrior and won’t be able to make up for the telegraphed nature of this class’ skills.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Necromancers have the same HP while having access to another life bar and the on-cast signet allows for very good sustain if used properly.
The necro signet is only bad…
Against any decent player all the other heals give better sustain than vampire signet. So plz dont say it gives good sustain…
The on-cast signet is the ele one – i wasn’t talking about necro with that one.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Warriors have nowhere near as much damage avoid/mitigation as Thieves or Mesmers. .
my experinece with jumping in and out of zergfights with both warrior and thief say otherwise.
Warriors can do what? get hit and hit back. We have no mechanic that allows us to mitigate damage.
.
stances, stuns, mobility… do you actually play that class?
what you say strengthens the experience that i made with my warrior the last weeks: it’s an easy beginner’s class that supports brain-afk too much and hampers skill development of players. the proposals of OP might not be perfect but i really like the idea of pushing the warrior more into active gameplay. i really think that will greatly improve the joy of playing that class
Former running-really-fast-man. Now proud member of Revenant clan.
“The Line”
Reaper’s Protection: Inflicts AoE fear on foes when disabled.
Hide in Plain Sight: Gain Camouflage.
Hard to Catch: Shadowstep away and gain swiftness when disabled.
Mirror of Anguish: Copy the same effect back at your foe.
Autodefense Bomb Dispenser: Drops a Smoke Bomb when disabled.Warriors
Last Stand: Negates the control effect and activates Balanced Stance.
Suggestion: Activates Balanced Stance after the 1st CC disappear.
No.
Last stand doesn’t stop incoming damage. Every other skill negates damage.
5x Warrior, 5x Ranger, 4x Elementalist, 4x Engineer,
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant
Warriors have nowhere near as much damage avoid/mitigation as Thieves or Mesmers. .
my experinece with jumping in and out of zergfights with both warrior and thief say otherwise.
Warriors can do what? get hit and hit back. We have no mechanic that allows us to mitigate damage.
.stances, stuns, mobility… do you actually play that class?
what you say strengthens the experience that i made with my warrior the last weeks: it’s an easy beginner’s class that supports brain-afk too much and hampers skill development of players. the proposals of OP might not be perfect but i really like the idea of pushing the warrior more into active gameplay. i really think that will greatly improve the joy of playing that class
Why do you have you thief in a zerg fight?
And even there the ability to go invisible and just avoid the zerg is incredibly good.
So stuns are damage mitigation now?
Also you mention mobility – warriors have good landspeed not in combat mobility. You should note the difference.
A class with good in-combat mobility is thief. Or mesmer.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
“The Line”
Reaper’s Protection: Inflicts AoE fear on foes when disabled.
Hide in Plain Sight: Gain Camouflage.
Hard to Catch: Shadowstep away and gain swiftness when disabled.
Mirror of Anguish: Copy the same effect back at your foe.
Autodefense Bomb Dispenser: Drops a Smoke Bomb when disabled.Warriors
Last Stand: Negates the control effect and activates Balanced Stance.
Suggestion: Activates Balanced Stance after the 1st CC disappear.No.
Last stand doesn’t stop incoming damage. Every other skill negates damage.
If you have stability, or Last Stand, Reaper’s protection does nothing.
The stunning attack’s damage is also applied.
Attrition – A pretty name for taking longer than anyone else to kill something.
Honestly IMO there’s nothing wrong with a passive health regen signet, but really it ought to not have an active ability.
That’d be an interesting trade-off actually.
Sacrifice an ability slot and any ability to actively heal for a quite strong passive heal (the heal would probably need a buff, ofc :P ). A gamble, if you ever get focused in any way you got no way to shed the damage, as long as you only take incidental damage you can safely ignore it.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
Why do you have you thief in a zerg fight?
And even there the ability to go invisible and just avoid the zerg is incredibly good.
so instead of clusterbombs and choking gas/spiking targets you propose the thief’s role in zerg fights to go invisible and do nothing to help the team at all? well, since it’s a thief, people will probably call even that op…
So stuns are damage mitigation now?
Also you mention mobility – warriors have good landspeed not in combat mobility. You should note the difference.
A class with good in-combat mobility is thief. Or mesmer.
i can not hear you over the sound of my awesome GS mobility (that is the easiest way to avoid a thief-BS btw). and yes, stuns ARE damage mitigation, in fact, they are a 100% dmg mitigation. you are really proving my point: a lot of warriors cannot think out of the box, because the class is a fuzzy comfort zone that doesn’t force them to.
Former running-really-fast-man. Now proud member of Revenant clan.
i can not hear you over the sound of my awesome GS mobility (that is the easiest way to avoid a thief-BS btw). and yes, stuns ARE damage mitigation, in fact, they are a 100% dmg mitigation. you are really proving my point: a lot of warriors cannot think out of the box, because the class is a fuzzy comfort zone that doesn’t force them to.
Killing the enemy is also damage mitigation. By that train of thought, isn’t Zerker gear the best defensive gear?
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
i can not hear you over the sound of my awesome GS mobility (that is the easiest way to avoid a thief-BS btw). and yes, stuns ARE damage mitigation, in fact, they are a 100% dmg mitigation. you are really proving my point: a lot of warriors cannot think out of the box, because the class is a fuzzy comfort zone that doesn’t force them to.
Killing the enemy is also damage mitigation. By that train of thought, isn’t Zerker gear the best defensive gear?
PvE has proven that point since day 1.
Attrition – A pretty name for taking longer than anyone else to kill something.
i can not hear you over the sound of my awesome GS mobility (that is the easiest way to avoid a thief-BS btw). and yes, stuns ARE damage mitigation, in fact, they are a 100% dmg mitigation. you are really proving my point: a lot of warriors cannot think out of the box, because the class is a fuzzy comfort zone that doesn’t force them to.
GS, together with rifle is by far the weakest weapon in spvp and even zergfights.
You should apply ‘thinking outside the box’ to yourself first; taking GS solely for mobility gimps you significantly in duelling and teamfight scenarios.
I personally think HS should scale more with healing power, so defensive speccs gain more out of it (guard still dominating as supreme bunker class) while offensive speccs lose unjustified high sustained healing.
However, Harper is right:
Guardians have protection, blinds, aegis and healing plus blocks and invuln from heal and elite.
Engineers have high cc in certain builds plus extremely high burst healing through water blasts.
Rangers have vigor and evades on weapon skills plus immob, blind and selfress as spiritranger.
Thieves have stealth, high blind uptime (and from my time as thief in wvw i remember a high vigor uptime; guess that came from a trait).
Eles have pretty low survivability overall, at least before the patch but with healingpower, waterblasts are extremely potent.
Mesmers have stealth while their clones and phants just bash you down and load you full of condis.
Necros have high hp plus a second hp bar that generates individually from their first.
Warrior sustain is a combination of facetanking and enduring incoming damage through cooldowns to allow for the passive regen to heal them back up. Anet even stated that they want the warrior to have regen based defense.
And that’s your argument ? Leave necro/ranger alone we have at least two/three more popular class.
For me the only reason why Last Stand negated 1st CC is because Anet is too lazy to change the copy/patse (and forget) work style. Stun break
The thing is, Last Stand itself is not a stunbreak, Balanced Stance is. The same is true for the other stability skill, Dolyak Signet.
The thing is, all professions have a trait that is triggered when you are disabled. For Warriors, it wouldn’t really make much sense to trigger anything else except a Stance. All Stances, except Berserker Stance, are stun breakers and Berserker Stance wouldn’t really make any sense for that trait.
And as I already said, Last Stand is in a line that is ridiculously full of better traits. You don’t see many warriors running around without Cleansing Ire nowadays and the ones that go 30 into Defense tend to do it for Merciless Hammer and Cleansing Ire. Not to mention that Last Stand has a 90 second cooldown.
Also, for anyone suggesting that Healing Signet should grant Regeneration (the boon) instead of the current form: No one used Healing Signet back when it was healing 202 hp/s. That’s the equivalent of Regeneration with 576 Healing Power.
(edited by Olba.5376)
Thieves have
stealth(you can’t attack while in stealth), high blind uptime (and from my time as thief in wvw i remember ahigh vigor(you can’t attack while you dodge) uptime; guess that came from a trait).
Eles have pretty low survivability overall, at least before the patch but with healingpower, waterblasts are extremely potent.
Mesmers have stealth while their clones andphants(Signet of the Ether: heal based on the number of active illusions you control)just bash you down and load you full of condis.
Necros have high hpplus a second hp(Signet of Vampirism does not work while in DS) bar that generates individually from their first.
Warrior sustain is a combination of facetanking and enduring incoming damage through cooldowns to allow for the passive regen to heal them back up. Anet even stated that they want the warrior to have regen based defense.
Thats necromancer with Signet of Vampirism. Warrior looks more like “avoiding the fight with gap closer skills and regen heal without doing anything”. I don’t have anything agains Healing Signet when the warrior actually want to fight with me.
3sec or maybe 4sec “Healing Signet” regeneration every time you hit the target is more than enough to keep perma regeneration during the normal fight and to combo it with the Shield block (3sec).
The thing is, all professions have a trait that is triggered when you are disabled. For Warriors, it wouldn’t really make much sense to trigger anything else except a Stance. All Stances, except Berserker Stance, are stun breakers and Berserker Stance wouldn’t really make any sense for that trait.
And who said to remove Balanced Stance from that trait ? Just add to Last Stand 1sec (space for 1st CC) delay between disabled and activating Balanced Stance and everything will be fine. It will still be the best “disabled” trait in the game.
(edited by pierwola.9602)
End of story: Healing signet is too powerful
Nerf it
Mes (Guardian)
I make PvP & WvW videos
I make PvP & WvW videos
The issue with Healing Signet is not that the passive is too strong, it’s that there is literally no reason to use the active, this is something even the developers acknowledge. So please, shut up about Healing Signet until they change the active.
There is no reason to use the active because the passive is too strong (perma rege no matter what). I use the Signet of Vampirism active because i can’t benefit from passive anymore (i can"t take more hit so the passive is useless for me), the same goes with other Signets, you use the active not because it’s good you use it because you stopped benefits from the passive and you need heal. Warriors don’t have that problem with the passive (perma rege, no matters what).
(edited by pierwola.9602)
“The Line”
Reaper’s Protection: Inflicts AoE fear on foes when disabled.
Hide in Plain Sight: Gain Camouflage.
Hard to Catch: Shadowstep away and gain swiftness when disabled.
Mirror of Anguish: Copy the same effect back at your foe.
Autodefense Bomb Dispenser: Drops a Smoke Bomb when disabled.Warriors
Last Stand: Negates the control effect and activates Balanced Stance.
Suggestion: Activates Balanced Stance after the 1st CC disappear.No.
Last stand doesn’t stop incoming damage. Every other skill negates damage.
If you have stability, or Last Stand, Reaper’s protection does nothing.
The stunning attack’s damage is also applied.
Reaper’s protection isn’t only defensive but it can be offensive.
It shuts down an enemy. So if an enemy gets feared, your teammate can instatgib him.
It is balanced.
5x Warrior, 5x Ranger, 4x Elementalist, 4x Engineer,
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant
(edited by runeblade.7514)
The issue with Healing Signet is not that the passive is too strong, it’s that there is literally no reason to use the active, this is something even the developers acknowledge. So please, shut up about Healing Signet until they change the active.
There is no reason to use the active because the passive is too strong (perma rege no matter what). I use the Signet of Vampirism active because i can’t benefit from passive anymore (i can"t take more hit so the passive is useless for me), the same goes with other Signets, you use the active not because it’s good you use it because you stopped benefits from the passive and you need heal. Warriors don’t have that problem with the passive (perma rege, no matters what).
The problem with that approach is that nerfing Healing Signet’s passive significantly will bring it to a point where the other healing skills are simply superior. For example, currently Healing Surge maxes out at 327 hp/s. And not many use Mending because the healing on it is too low for the gain of removing 3 conditions.
Another problem with Healing Signet is that the active has a ridiculous cast time of 1.25s for a pathetic heal of 3,275. And the active also scales worse than Surge or Mending.
And for the record, different professions have different usages of signets. For Warriors, we have:
- Signet of Might with its active being useful only when your enemy is using a blocking skill
- Signet of Dolyak with its active being useful as a stunbreak and stability
- Signet of Stamina with its active being used when you’ve been swarmed by conditions
- Signet of Fury with its active being used for a well-timed spike of burst
And who said to remove Balanced Stance from that trait ? Just add to Last Stand 1sec (space for 1st CC) delay between disabled and activating Balanced Stance and everything will be fine. It will still be the best “disabled” trait in the game.
Not a single skill in the game requires you to have had a specific condition/effect on you for a specific duration. In fact, most likely there is no way to implement that in the game to begin with.
cut
The only constructive point you had was my miss-labeling of endure pain as invulnerable instead of immune to direct damage. As for the part about conditions, it’s the typical excuse for making a dumb mistake and confusing it with berserker stance – extremely tired at the time of posting. Of course endure pain doesn’t prevent incoming conditions. I main a thief so I know that all too well – whenever a warrior uses it I kite and blind, which is of course, a condition.
The rest is either a misinterpretation on your part, or you’re just looking to argue. Such as the defensive options I listed to show that warriors do indeed have them, where you decided that I must be saying they are a problem and got rather defensive for no purpose. You even picked on things I mentioned which were not in response to you, just to agree with it, and then proceed to discuss it in an aggressive manner that basically said “I’m right, you’re wrong, even though we both agree”.
Usually I would entertain that sort of non-constructive response and seeming lack of objectivity, thoroughly addressing each part, but it’s a rather long post. I’m also less inclined to do it on the profession balance section.
EU | Ímpáct / Impact Warlock / Impact Illusions
http://www.twitch.tv/impact2780
http://www.twitch.tv/impact2780
GS, together with rifle is by far the weakest weapon in spvp and even zergfights.
You should apply ‘thinking outside the box’ to yourself first; taking GS solely for mobility gimps you significantly in duelling and teamfight scenarios.
and still, right from the start, i was quite successful with GS/ham in wvw and hardly ever die.
you didn’t get my post. on warr, i don’t *need * to think out of the box, heck, i don’t need to think at all. the class does everything for me and that get’s boring really fast
Former running-really-fast-man. Now proud member of Revenant clan.
GS, together with rifle is by far the weakest weapon in spvp and even zergfights.
You should apply ‘thinking outside the box’ to yourself first; taking GS solely for mobility gimps you significantly in duelling and teamfight scenarios.and still, right from the start, i was quite successful with GS/ham in wvw and hardly ever die.
you didn’t get my post. on warr, i don’t *need * to think out of the box, heck, i don’t need to think at all. the class does everything for me and that get’s boring really fast
my bad, totally forgot how skillful wvw blobs are. hurrdurr.
try actual pvp with GS/hammer on a higher mmr, then come back complaining how OP it is.
HS is fine as is. The reason it is used 99.9% of cases (and thus making it a good scape-goat for criticism) is that the other healing options for warrior are severely outdone.
Also with the nerf to Dogged March which was far more important, warriors are sustaining for a ‘right’ amount right now.
…I didn’t realize Last Stand was in such a good position, being on a 90 sec CD for an automatic Balanced Stance as a Master. If anything, it’s probably a touch weak.
Suicidal Warrior.
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
Does Dogged March have an internal cd?
Mes (Guardian)
I make PvP & WvW videos
I make PvP & WvW videos
Yes, it always does.
The problem with that approach is that nerfing Healing Signet’s passive significantly will bring it to a point where the other healing skills are simply superior. For example, currently Healing Surge maxes out at 327 hp/s. And not many use Mending because the healing on it is too low for the gain of removing 3 conditions.
If you are good you should have no problem with keep up the perma regeneration.
The problem with that approach is that nerfing Healing Signet’s passive significantly will bring it to a point where the other healing skills are simply superior. For example, currently Healing Surge maxes out at 327 hp/s. And not many use Mending because the healing on it is too low for the gain of removing 3 conditions.
If you are good you should have no problem with keep up the perma regeneration.
For a warrior? how? banners?
I think what OP is suggesting is that there should be more activity and give and take for some of the warrior abilities.
I wish that the I vulnerabilities they had gave some drawbacks, kind of like how rangers (I think) have quickness but take 50% more damage during that period. Just something to make it require a little more thought, I think, would be a positive.
HS is fine as is. The reason it is used 99.9% of cases (and thus making it a good scape-goat for criticism) is that the other healing options for warrior are severely outdone.
Also with the nerf to Dogged March which was far more important, warriors are sustaining for a ‘right’ amount right now.
I strongly disagree. If they were to bring up other heal skills based on HS right now they may be even worse than HS. There should be adjustments to all the heal skills. Like the OP and others I’d rather have the war class be more active and many people are defending its passive nature but in truth the unbalance is in just that, it’s passive vs other signet heals.
HS would be better served if it were to be activated with its current healing by actually hitting something (and of maybe blocking as well, debatable), not granting regen that can be removed/stolen. There should be that understanding to encourage more active play/reward instead of the current passive boring tank/spank.
Having to press button is not “activity”. Just because you are force to press a button on something doesn’t make you good.
For example: warrior vs mesmer. Warrior must figure out mesmer’s build, constantly gauging his health health, it’s position, find the right targets, guess opponent’s energy level, determent whether to burst, or play defensively. While mesmer, just spawn clones, and stealth, and watch the warrior kill himself.
Sure the mesmer might have to press more buttons, and the warrior less. But if you are a warrior that can win over a warrior vs mesmer duel, I ’ll say you are the better player.
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