Do you really think people will choose 3k health over goodies such as Pure of voice and Battle presence? 3k health means NOTHING in PVP as well as fractals where u get 2-3 shot regardless of health.
Honor has some of the best traits in the game and the new trait falls short to even some of the adept traits in honor, not to mention grandmaster. Please, change this trait, or make it adept and throw it somewhere in valor or even virtues, but as of right now it does NOT deserve to be grandmaster
Now lets move down to the next traits announced yesterday and why they are such a pathetic attempt at balance.
1) Guardians will NEVER have a viable condi build, they have to sacrifice too many stats to make it viable. (low health pool)
2) Guards have no cover for burning. Having to rely on sigils of earth and doom in hopes to make burning tick twice is the most ridiculous excuse I have ever heard
3) See 1
It’s a good trait; it’s just in the wrong traitline. Honor already gives a vitality boost, so honor-based guardians are about the only build that won’t be able to make good use of it.
I’d honestly much rather see it go in zeal, so that there’s a reason for glass guardians to take zeal. Right now it’s still a traitline with mostly garbage traits.
Do you really think people will choose 3k health over goodies such as Pure of voice and Battle presence? 3k health means NOTHING in PVP as well as fractals where u get 2-3 shot regardless of health.
Honor has some of the best traits in the game and the new trait falls short to even some of the adept traits in honor, not to mention grandmaster. Please, change this trait, or make it adept and throw it somewhere in valor or even virtues, but as of right now it does NOT deserve to be grandmaster
Wanna trade ? guardian new trait to elementalist new trait .
I’m not sure if it’s actually trash, though it might end up not being very good. My personal problem with it (though I don’t play Guardian, admittedly) is that it’s the most uninteresting trait I’ve maybe ever seen. Bleed on Crit is more interesting than Chunk of Stats.
They can’t all be zingers, but I’m just kind of surprised about it.
Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
Low health is one of the weakest spots of Guards in wvw and it certainly is usefull in spvp.
And compare that with Ranger and Engi which are only usefull while taking special weapons/utilities which are widly considered weak (and still will be), much more situational and bound to cooldowns.
So on the one side we so far have seen traits which are universally usefull on good/rather good classes and a waste on the weak ones.
In my opinion it seems like our famous devs almost look for further unbalance.
Low health is one of the weakest spots of Guards in wvw and it certainly is usefull in spvp.
And compare that with Ranger and Engi which are only usefull while taking special weapons/utilities which are widly considered weak (and still will be), much more situational and bound to cooldowns.
So on the one side we so far have seen traits which are universally usefull on good/rather good classes and a waste on the weak ones.
In my opinion it seems like our famous devs almost look for further unbalance.
I would say the devs have no idea what they are doing with the guardians. You don’t try to balance the health discrepancy with a GM trait. The GM trait should be the peak of a trait line and reason why u spend 30 points in there to begin with, not some boring 3k health passive. I can’t believe they are going through with this.
its the same thing as saying: here you go guys, passive GM trait cuz we have no idea what to do with honor.
I know the Guardian has Aegis to soak up some damage and the Virtue but I still think it’s a bit rough to keep the guardians in the lowest HP bracket. Middle, sure, but not lowest.
And I have to agree about the talent. I don’t love it at all and wouldn’t take it, not for a GRANDMASTER anyway. MAYBE Master but not GM.
Flip side to Pure of Voice to be fair though? PoV handles conditions much better. However it does require shouts. This does not.
Still was wishing for something better. But I’m trying to remain hopeful that they’ll fix Valor up a bit with the adept and master traits so its not seen kitten selfish when people run Altruistic Healing. Or whatever they add TO the Valor’s GM line
Do you really think people will choose 3k health over goodies such as Pure of voice and Battle presence? 3k health means NOTHING in PVP as well as fractals where u get 2-3 shot regardless of health.
Honor has some of the best traits in the game and the new trait falls short to even some of the adept traits in honor, not to mention grandmaster. Please, change this trait, or make it adept and throw it somewhere in valor or even virtues, but as of right now it does NOT deserve to be grandmaster
Not to sound mean, but the developers aren’t going to care AT ALL about your opinion on a trait that isn’t even released and tested yet.
It’s no way a bad trait. It’s just placed where it doesn’t make any sense at all (as a grandmaster on the Vitality traitline, so you already have 300 more vitality points than other Guardian builds) and looks completely uninteresting gameplay wise.
A “7% X is converted to vitality” adept somewhere would have been much more useful and appreciated.
It does seem fairly dull. Still, we can’t just look at this in a vacuum. There are likely to be a lot of trait changes besides the new GMs, alone with other balance changes and the sigil/rune updates.
Khyla Shadowsong ~ Charr Ele, Engi, Mes, Ranger, Guard, Thief, War, Necro
Northern Shiverpeaks ~ [dO] Drop Otter
Low health is one of the weakest spots of Guards in wvw and it certainly is usefull in spvp.
And compare that with Ranger and Engi which are only usefull while taking special weapons/utilities which are widly considered weak (and still will be), much more situational and bound to cooldowns.
So on the one side we so far have seen traits which are universally usefull on good/rather good classes and a waste on the weak ones.
In my opinion it seems like our famous devs almost look for further unbalance.
Let’s compare it to a warrior who has 8k more base health. This is a band-aid trait that tries to fix something that needs redone outside of traits. Sure the other new traits are either going to be “who thought this was a good idea?” or hugely OP, but they shouldn’t be trying to fix base stat problems with traits. They need to actually fix base stat values so there isn’t a huge Chasm. It takes away from actually customizing your class when you feel obligated to take a passive boring trait just to try and make up some of the difference that other classes had given to them for absolutely nothing, especially when that trait doesn’t even make up half of the difference.
I think It will be a good trait for my meds build. Isn’kitten little early to be complaining anyways? you still have 4 more unrevealed traits for Guardians coming….
Commander Unyielding Shadow – Human Thief
Champion Shadow
Better Luck Next Time [BLNT]-Sea of Sorrows
Do you really think people will choose 3k health over goodies such as Pure of voice and Battle presence? 3k health means NOTHING in PVP as well as fractals where u get 2-3 shot regardless of health.
Honor has some of the best traits in the game and the new trait falls short to even some of the adept traits in honor, not to mention grandmaster. Please, change this trait, or make it adept and throw it somewhere in valor or even virtues, but as of right now it does NOT deserve to be grandmaster
I actually disagree with this. As someone who plays main guardian (and has more hours on him then I care to admit publically) this trait is good for builds that utilize this line but aren’t focused on the typical Shout/AH build. For me I use meditations while also being somewhat tanky. Right now I hate the grandmaster traits in honor. I need that vitality because of the unfair bias against guardians having natural medium/high health (a defensive class with low health… makes perfect sense). So for me I run battle presence because that extra 50 vitality is huge for me, but I find that trait completely useless in world where the passive healing on VoR stinks, and things in wvw/pve will one shot you regardless.
I’m just peeved that we have to trait to have decent health when we aren’t a high damage class…. But I guess if I wanted easy mode I’d play my warrior.
Do you really think people will choose 3k health over goodies such as Pure of voice and Battle presence? 3k health means NOTHING in PVP as well as fractals where u get 2-3 shot regardless of health.
Honor has some of the best traits in the game and the new trait falls short to even some of the adept traits in honor, not to mention grandmaster. Please, change this trait, or make it adept and throw it somewhere in valor or even virtues, but as of right now it does NOT deserve to be grandmaster
Wanna trade ? guardian new trait to elementalist new trait .
I think every guardian and elementalist would be ok with that =)
And I agree with what was stated above, if it were a diff trait line then it could be pretty solid. In a DPS trait line would be ideal as that’s the only time you’re really hurting for health and such.
30 points in honor basically means you’re a support guard, and don’t need this.
I’m almost taken aback by Guardians being irritated that they have low base health. It’s seems to already be the quintessential bunker in GW2, but people argue they should start with even more health because a defensive class needs a higher number in its Health Pool?
What happened to the concept of Effective Health Pool?
Not that it justifies the boringness of the trait, but if the trait ends up being useful for certain builds, should it being fairly uninteresting be a reason to discount it or cry for its change? Not everything can be wicked awesome, regardless of how much marketing everywhere tries to make you think everything in the world is wicked awesome.
Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
Got to say I’m rather irked by the fact that they’re still putting in entirely passive traits like this one. Have they really run out of ideas already?
- Shout reduction
- 2H mastery
- EM
- Symbol size increase
- Symbol heal
- Symbol duration increase
- PoV
- Battle presence (debatable)
ANY of these traits is better than the 3k one, and most would nicely fit into any kind of build, whether meditations or heck, even spirit weapons.
Just gotta say, there have been many many threads complaining about how overpowered conditions are. Then one class gets a gm that gives them 3k more health directly countering condition builds and complains about it.
#gw2forumlogic
Necros don’t have reflects, invulns, vigor, blocks,
extra dodges, real stability, mobility skills,
burst skills, sustain, or good support. GG ANET.
It’s a good trait; it’s just in the wrong traitline. Honor already gives a vitality boost, so honor-based guardians are about the only build that won’t be able to make good use of it.
I’d honestly much rather see it go in zeal, so that there’s a reason for glass guardians to take zeal. Right now it’s still a traitline with mostly garbage traits.
this.
so much.
should have been put in zeal.
Chaos Organ (Ele), Pistol Opera (Thief), Modular Man (Eng)
MARA (EU) Gunnar’s Hold
Just gotta say, there have been many many threads complaining about how overpowered conditions are. Then one class gets a gm that gives them 3k more health directly countering condition builds and complains about it.
#gw2forumlogic
Gonna go out on a limb. Though in this case not that far. You are not a guardian player. If you look at the other grand master traits you will see PoV. Which is not selfish like this trait and does more by removing conditions like cripple chill etc. It beats this trait hands down
Except maybe those guys talking about meditations. Even then i can think of a better use for the points. If this was in zeal it might have been useful
“We have now left Reason and Sanity Junction. Next stop, Looneyville.”
Just gotta say, there have been many many threads complaining about how overpowered conditions are. Then one class gets a gm that gives them 3k more health directly countering condition builds and complains about it.
#gw2forumlogic
Gonna go out on a limb. Though in this case not that far. You are not a guardian player. If you look at the other grand master traits you will see PoV. Which is not selfish like this trait and does more by removing conditions like cripple chill etc. It beats this trait hands down
yep……..the complaint is not the actual trait, but the placement of the trait.
Chaos Organ (Ele), Pistol Opera (Thief), Modular Man (Eng)
MARA (EU) Gunnar’s Hold
Dafuk.. You created two threads with the same crap. It seems the OP is a PvE player who doesn’t appreciate VIT. You should try frontlining, OP. Swimming in an enemy zerg is fun.
Anyway, I don’t think a VIT boost trait belongs to Zeal nor Radiance. Honor seems the correct line IMO. I know that the DPS guardian needs a boost on defensive aspect; but putting a vit boost to offensive trait line is not a solution.
Bloo Foefire [RAM]
Yak’s Bend
Why bother being a Guardian if you don’t guard anyone?
Dafuk.. You created two threads with the same crap. It seems the OP is a PvE player who doesn’t appreciate VIT. You should try frontlining, OP. Swimming in an enemy zerg is fun.
Anyway, I don’t think a VIT boost trait belongs to Zeal nor Radiance. Honor seems the correct line IMO. I know that the DPS guardian needs a boost on defensive aspect; but putting a vit boost to offensive trait line is not a solution.
I go zerg swimming all the time. Never had a problem that required more Vit, maybe I am just that good.
“We have now left Reason and Sanity Junction. Next stop, Looneyville.”
“New trait’s” != “Buff”
Yes you have to chose. The trait may actually be good for builds that are not played and will come to shine the new meta happens. We don’t even know all the planed changes yet.
I guess complaining makes people feel good
“Another testament to my greatness !”
Enid Asuran Trollz [Join] The Asuran Fanclub
Do you really think people will choose 3k health over goodies such as Pure of voice and Battle presence? 3k health means NOTHING in PVP as well as fractals where u get 2-3 shot regardless of health.
Honor has some of the best traits in the game and the new trait falls short to even some of the adept traits in honor, not to mention grandmaster. Please, change this trait, or make it adept and throw it somewhere in valor or even virtues, but as of right now it does NOT deserve to be grandmaster
Wanna trade ? guardian new trait to elementalist new trait .
Any minute, any day.
New ele trait + Selfless Daring = S O O P
25% more healing on dodgeroll I would pay for that
I have always thought that Guards were the one class that was in the best spot across all formats in perspective of the other classes. They seem the most reasonable is what I mean. This 3k trait in relation to the other four GM traits it’s getting could end up being really nice. Also, try and think about it in conjunction with the new ammy(ies) we are getting in spvp.
My post is fairly reasonable and level headed though so I imagine it will get ignored in favor of someone yelling in all caps for no reason.
Leader of The Guernsey Milking Coalition [MiLk] Sanctum of Rall
Dafuk.. You created two threads with the same crap. It seems the OP is a PvE player who doesn’t appreciate VIT. You should try frontlining, OP. Swimming in an enemy zerg is fun.
Anyway, I don’t think a VIT boost trait belongs to Zeal nor Radiance. Honor seems the correct line IMO. I know that the DPS guardian needs a boost on defensive aspect; but putting a vit boost to offensive trait line is not a solution.
I go zerg swimming all the time. Never had a problem that required more Vit, maybe I am just that good.
I don’t doubt that you are good. I don’t disagree that with enough self-heal, VIT becomes less significant. I too, found the VIT cap on my build. However, I still believe VIT is most valuable to guardian than to any other classes.
But to each his own. I just love bombing enemy zerg’s bomb much more than rolling away from it. It’s an opportunity for AoE damage, Interrupt, and Retaliation spread. And that’s why I love VIT.
Just like swimming, you need to breathe and in this case; to group up with your zerg to heal up and buff up after getting bombed. I prefer being under the water longer with VIT.
Bloo Foefire [RAM]
Yak’s Bend
Why bother being a Guardian if you don’t guard anyone?
Dafuk.. You created two threads with the same crap. It seems the OP is a PvE player who doesn’t appreciate VIT. You should try frontlining, OP. Swimming in an enemy zerg is fun.
Anyway, I don’t think a VIT boost trait belongs to Zeal nor Radiance. Honor seems the correct line IMO. I know that the DPS guardian needs a boost on defensive aspect; but putting a vit boost to offensive trait line is not a solution.
You don’t boost a class defence with raw passive HP GRANDMASTER traits. After a certain point the HP pool becomes meaningless, and ye, that’s the case even in wvw. Guard buff + 1/2 PTV gear = more HP than you need.
And its funny because a the standard wvw zerg guard is shout based, and guess which trait you have to take for the grandmaster honor line? (hint: its PoV)
PoV hasn’t really been that big of a deal since the bug “fix”. It’s alright in zergs I guess but not everyone spends their time spamming staff 1
I am not sure what your saying, what does PoV have to do with a staff? Unless your assuming all guardians in a zerg are using that staff full time. Which if that is the case, your doing it wrong.
“We have now left Reason and Sanity Junction. Next stop, Looneyville.”
Dafuk.. You created two threads with the same crap. It seems the OP is a PvE player who doesn’t appreciate VIT. You should try frontlining, OP. Swimming in an enemy zerg is fun.
Anyway, I don’t think a VIT boost trait belongs to Zeal nor Radiance. Honor seems the correct line IMO. I know that the DPS guardian needs a boost on defensive aspect; but putting a vit boost to offensive trait line is not a solution.
You don’t boost a class defence with raw passive HP GRANDMASTER traits. After a certain point the HP pool becomes meaningless, and ye, that’s the case even in wvw. Guard buff + 1/2 PTV gear = more HP than you need.
And its funny because a the standard wvw zerg guard is shout based, and guess which trait you have to take for the grandmaster honor line? (hint: its PoV)
That’s the point. With 300 VIT, now you don’t even have to invest on 1/2 PVT Gear. Did I mention shout build should use it? Maybe you should read my post on your other thread that has the same whiny crap. People who use shout but expect to be able to replace PoV with a new trait, are just dreaming for a new stronger trait.
I asked you this on your other thread; how many VIT do you think the trait should have so it can be categorized as grandmaster trait?
Bloo Foefire [RAM]
Yak’s Bend
Why bother being a Guardian if you don’t guard anyone?
I asked you this on your other thread; how many VIT do you think the trait should have so it can be categorized as grandmaster trait?
I’m waiting with bated breath for the inevitable bombastic number
You are missing the point. No amount of vit justifies such a lame kitten grandmaster trait. Not to mention that PoV will always be better.
I don’t think he is missing the point. Neither was I, hence I asked that question. You just don’t appreciate VIT so no matter the amount of VIT the trait gives will never satisfy you. With that answer, I can confirm that you are just expecting something better than PoV so you can replace it.
Bloo Foefire [RAM]
Yak’s Bend
Why bother being a Guardian if you don’t guard anyone?
I asked you this on your other thread; how many VIT do you think the trait should have so it can be categorized as grandmaster trait?
I’m waiting with bated breath for the inevitable bombastic number
You are missing the point. No amount of vit justifies such a lame kitten grandmaster trait. Not to mention that PoV will always be better.
I don’t think he is missing the point. Neither was I, hence I asked that question. You just don’t appreciate VIT so no matter the amount of VIT the trait gives will never satisfy you. With that answer, I can confirm that you are just expecting something better than PoV so you can replace it.
I am expecting something just as good as PoV, so I can have a choice for my GM trait. What trait that is? Well, its not exactly my job to by creative, the people who are supposed to, dropped the ball on that one.
In any case, check out the other “awesome” GM traits they added. I bet you think the zeal and radiance one is equally as good.
Cross posting from another similar thread, but I’m curious for other people’s thoughts on this. Follow my thought process for a second. Let’s compare the new talent (+33% burning damage) to kindled zeal (13% of your power to condition damage).
The base damage of burning is 328/sec and scales with condition damage for .25 per point of condition damage. The new trait adds 33% burning damage, resulting in 436 damage/sec (at +0 condition damage). This results in a difference of roughly 108 damage.
In order to add 108 damage to burning, you need to have 432 condition damage. That translates into 3330 power for the Kindled zeal talent. Why on earth would anyone going for condition damage ever choose Kindled zeal over the new talent? Even for power Guardians, who usually invest into Radiance, Kindled zeal is clearly the worse of the two (at +250 condition damage from 25 points into radiance, you would need 5253 power before kindled zeal is equal to the damage added from the +33% damage trait) . How does simply adding more damage to burning all of a sudden make it viable when it didn’t before?
What was Anet’s thought process behind this new ability? It seems to overshadow kindled zeal while providing the exact same end result, to boost burning damage. The only way Kindled Zeal still can pull ahead is when you go for a power build that ignores radiance (the tree that’s all about boosting burning damage) and manages to get 25 might stacks, a warrior banner and various consumables (and avoids any and all boosts to condition damage in any shape or form).
Cross posting from another similar thread, but I’m curious for other people’s thoughts on this. Follow my thought process for a second. Let’s compare the new talent (+33% burning damage) to kindled zeal (13% of your power to condition damage).
The base damage of burning is 328/sec and scales with condition damage for .25 per point of condition damage. The new trait adds 33% burning damage, resulting in 436 damage/sec (at +0 condition damage). This results in a difference of roughly 108 damage.
In order to add 108 damage to burning, you need to have 432 condition damage. That translates into 3330 power for the Kindled zeal talent. Why on earth would anyone going for condition damage ever choose Kindled zeal over the new talent? Even for power Guardians, who usually invest into Radiance, Kindled zeal is clearly the worse of the two (at +250 condition damage from 25 points into radiance, you would need 5253 power before kindled zeal is equal to the damage added from the +33% damage trait) . How does simply adding more damage to burning all of a sudden make it viable when it didn’t before?
What was Anet’s thought process behind this new ability? It seems to overshadow kindled zeal while providing the exact same end result, to boost burning damage. The only way Kindled Zeal still can pull ahead is when you go for a power build that ignores radiance (the tree that’s all about boosting burning damage) and manages to get 25 might stacks, a warrior banner and various consumables (and avoids any and all boosts to condition damage in any shape or form).
Good catch.
This is exactly why I say that they have no idea when to comes to guardians. All the traits besides the valor one are downright WORTHLESS.
And then you have the valor one which is completely misplaced in the wrong trait line. No one in their right mind will put 30 points in a selfish line so they can suddenly become party viable
If I could use that trait on my elementalist though, I’d likely would do so.
Exactly, this should have been the new earth trait instead of stoneheart. Stoneheart is going to end up the same place as Diamond Skin, never used because it is too dependent on your opponents build to rely on. Nobody can afford to take a trait which is only worthwhile on specific minmax’d builds there is no guarantee you will even be facing.
It will do alot of difference in a full clerics set for sure if not AH must be swapped with this trait.
Cleric build could use this though I think toughness might be better.
As for the other traits, they are bad and should feel bad. Burning is a joke because it scales poorly with condi damage and does not stack— you only stack duration and of course have to compete with everyone else’s random burning. Aka, it’s a dead horse.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
