Guild Wars 2

fellyn.5083:

Icaruk.5401:

I’m so happy because now, a warrior MUST use the 110% of their skill to fight someone that uses the 110% of his skill.

The 123345123511345 days have been ended. You all were used to win fights doing nothing.

Your argument makes absolute no sense what so ever.

You say the “123345123511345 days have been ended” which implies people (warriors) are using their skills in a specific order, the same as every single other class in the game. Then you say “You all were used to win fights doing nothing.” which directly contradicts the first part of your sentence.

So which is it, were they using skills in a specific order to achieve results? Or doing nothing to achieve results?

I mean thay they were facerolling the keyboard, without even taking care of his hp because of passive regen.

Icaruk.5401:

fellyn.5083:

Icaruk.5401:

I’m so happy because now, a warrior MUST use the 110% of their skill to fight someone that uses the 110% of his skill.

The 123345123511345 days have been ended. You all were used to win fights doing nothing.

Your argument makes absolute no sense what so ever.

You say the “123345123511345 days have been ended” which implies people (warriors) are using their skills in a specific order, the same as every single other class in the game. Then you say “You all were used to win fights doing nothing.” which directly contradicts the first part of your sentence.

So which is it, were they using skills in a specific order to achieve results? Or doing nothing to achieve results?

I mean thay they were facerolling the keyboard, without even taking care of his hp because of passive regen.

Facerolling the keyboard is nothing but an assumption you made about someone’s skill level to help justify your already shaky point.

Frankly, if you can’t out-dps 380 hp a second while someone is -doing nothing-, something is wrong.

It’s about time ANet’s pet was forced to put some thought into their mashing without relying on the passive healing/cleansing of Healing Signet and Cleansing Ire, running around spamming burst skills and cycling through their carry-me-stances.

Well done, ANet. Took you long enough.

Warlord.9074:

The Adrenaline changes killed this profession. Was fighting a thief he blinked away. Lost all adrenaline, then got rekt.

ANET you just killed your own game. Whoever Okayed these changes should be fired. And your whole balance testing team should be as well.

“I missed my all my skills and they went on cooldown and I died” Sounds like what’s supposed to happen when you miss all your skills, bro

Jackums.3496:

It’s about time ANet’s pet was forced to put some thought into their mashing without relying on the passive healing/cleansing of Healing Signet and Cleansing Ire, running around spamming burst skills and cycling through their carry-me-stances.

Well done, ANet. Took you long enough.

Waits patiently for the -warrior is still op pls nerf- QQ

Never felt so good seeing people whine.
The bad warriors are now starting to realize they’re bad. So. Much. Enjoyment.

On shatter Mesmer, If the warrior messed up badly I was able to take him out. If I messed up, good warriors pounced on me and managed to drop me.
Too early to say for sure, but I felt warrior was well balanced and I was able to actually punish bad warriors when they played badly.

Aw, Warriors are no longer a class with a substantially lower skill requirement than other classes. I feel bad now.

Realistically though, the bigger issue solved here is that other class mechanics aren’t freebies. If a Necro uses DS badly, if a Mesmer shatters wrong, if a Ranger fails to do something with their pet, they’re all really weak.
Warriors so far had a free one. Low CD on burst skills, no adrenaline loss on miss, can take adrenaline from fight to fight.

Carighan.6758:

Aw, Warriors are no longer a class with a substantially lower skill requirement than other classes. I feel bad now.

.

This.

As long as players realize this instead of using wars as complaint fodder, I could not be more comfortable.

That being said, some specific builds got hit pretty hard. I feel bad for those.

I just need my arcing slice to be prettier

But thieves got nerfed too… better find another class to blame soon.

Arachnid.4062:

Warlord.9074:

The Adrenaline changes killed this profession. Was fighting a thief he blinked away. Lost all adrenaline, then got rekt.

ANET you just killed your own game. Whoever Okayed these changes should be fired. And your whole balance testing team should be as well.

“I missed my all my skills and they went on cooldown and I died” Sounds like what’s supposed to happen when you miss all your skills, bro

Also this. kitten .

It’s in difficulty that humans learn to become stronger, humbler, and kinder.

Look at it as a way to play more cleverly. Doesn’t it sound fun?

MSFone.3026:

Warlord.9074:

The Adrenaline changes killed this profession. Was fighting a thief he blinked away. Lost all adrenaline, then got rekt.

ANET you just killed your own game. Whoever Okayed these changes should be fired. And your whole balance testing team should be as well.

Good riddance. The warrior class is a face roll piece of button mashing garbage anyways and Anet is brilliant for the change. They earned more money from me by doing it. Go get kitten d by more thieves and then come back and QQ more ok? This was a fun read.

>Inb4 he Rolls Ranger

rofl

Azure The Heartless.3261:

MSFone.3026:

Warlord.9074:

The Adrenaline changes killed this profession. Was fighting a thief he blinked away. Lost all adrenaline, then got rekt.

ANET you just killed your own game. Whoever Okayed these changes should be fired. And your whole balance testing team should be as well.

Good riddance. The warrior class is a face roll piece of button mashing garbage anyways and Anet is brilliant for the change. They earned more money from me by doing it. Go get kitten d by more thieves and then come back and QQ more ok? This was a fun read.

>Inb4 he Rolls Ranger

rofl

Who’s going to roll ranger? I play mesmer and only mesmer and anytime I want can take a kitten on warriors (without using PU). I don’t have to fear them to think they are button mashing garbage that has just been brought into the realm of having to think like at all before using skills.

As the dude above me said, if you blow all your skills and miss them, then ya you probably should lose. Just before the OP didn’t and now he’s crying, and so ya, good riddance to a class that allowed ppl to just mash kitten without penalty or thought. Now there is a new class called “Warrior” except this one you can’t just mash mash mash and win. Welcome to having to time your skills like the rest of us.

Edit: I’m not saying there aren’t people who attempt to play warrior without mashing skills, I’m sure some do and those are the hardest to fight. I’m just saying the class allowed people to just mash buttons if they chose, and now they can’t and I say good riddance to that.

MSFone.3026:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

MSFone.3026:

Warlord.9074:

The Adrenaline changes killed this profession. Was fighting a thief he blinked away. Lost all adrenaline, then got rekt.

ANET you just killed your own game. Whoever Okayed these changes should be fired. And your whole balance testing team should be as well.

Good riddance. The warrior class is a face roll piece of button mashing garbage anyways and Anet is brilliant for the change. They earned more money from me by doing it. Go get kitten d by more thieves and then come back and QQ more ok? This was a fun read.

>Inb4 he Rolls Ranger

rofl

Who’s going to roll ranger? I play mesmer and only mesmer and anytime I want can take a kitten on warriors (without using PU). I don’t have to fear them to think they are button mashing garbage that has just been brought into the realm of having to think like at all before using skills.

As the dude above me said, if you blow all your skills and miss them, then ya you probably should lose. Just before the OP didn’t and now he’s crying, and so ya, good riddance to a class that allowed ppl to just mash kitten without penalty or thought. Now there is a new class called “Warrior” except this one you can’t just mash mash mash and win. Welcome to having to time your skills like the rest of us.

Edit: I’m not saying there aren’t people who attempt to play warrior without mashing skills, I’m sure some do and those are the hardest to fight. I’m just saying the class allowed people to just mash buttons if they chose, and now they can’t and I say good riddance to that.

Much clearer, I’m perfectly fine with having to earn my victories.

Flumek.9043:

Simon.3794:

MightyMicah.7451:

You mean warriors have to actually try and land their skills now? Dang. That’s new :P

dafok, warrior has always been the hardest to land their skills due to them being telegraphed and small radius, except longbow f1

bleh cough gogglebfhfahrrrr

You perma burn a point the size of legacy , while botting 400hps

then you have 4x CC skills on hammer, axe you just run far and win like a decap engie idiot

and dont forget weakness cz a 25k 3k armor tank needs it

Your comment shows how inexperienced you are at this game and has no idea what you talking about,

sure, hop on a hammer or axe war, i didn’t even touch this game for ages, and i’ll show you how easy their telegraphed attacks can be avoided and that’s why they hit hard.
Even tho, these builds hit too hard compare to other warrior builds, specially the zerker builds.

Warlord.9074:

The Adrenaline changes killed this profession. Was fighting a thief he blinked away. Lost all adrenaline, then got rekt.

ANET you just killed your own game. Whoever Okayed these changes should be fired. And your whole balance testing team should be as well.

haha
hahahaha
ha
haha.
what i read:
“KITTEN I NEED SKILL TO WIN. HAX. CHEAT, REPORT. OP. KITTEN. QQ. where is my faceroll-win?”

anyone agreeing? Proper translation of warriorish? Right?

coglin.1867:

BurrTheKing.8571:

AnonMD.7263:

BurrTheKing.8571:

AnonMD.7263:

words

more words

some other words

Worse. Even though with the trait is could almost be a full cleanse, it doesn’t heal enough for that CD for it to be useable.

Actually both heals are quite good. The problem is we are completely spoiled on the signet. And to be honest, there is not reason not to use it.

By design and numbers, Healing Surge is a horrid, counter-intuitive heal that might seem appealing when measured against other lower health professions. It does nothing to keep the Warrior alive though.

Mending simply needs a bump of about 5-10% before I start considering it, as that condition clear will likely be even more needed with how Adrenaline and Cleansing Ire function after the patch.

It is not that Warriors are spoiled on Healing Signet, we just do not have a good alternative that fills the other healing roles we can run. Anyone running Healing Surge is shooting themselves in the foot, and those dedicated enough to run Mending might be going hellish out of their way into Healing Power / Regeneration that they might see conditions as the biggest threat.

Julie Yann.5379:

Black Scoutsman.5830:

Julie Yann.5379:

Kitt.2567:

currently there are more people who play necro, or, eles than warrior class in top100 of leaderboard. with regards to this fact, I wonder why they so much are nerfing warrior since april patch though. Warrior got nerfed 2 times continuously, firstly healing sig then now adrenaline and torment and etx.. rifle become just complete kitten cuz it will mostly miss. current top1 who is “jorse” is also ele.

Because the nubs got together and campaigned to nerf the big bad OP warrior. It was much easier than adapting their build and L2P.

Well then clearly you are not a nub and should have no problem adapting your build and l2p

I got 4k hour on my warrior, been playing him since launch. I will improvise, adapt, and overcome. I’m all for the changes they made in regards to losing adrenaline on burst. What got tragically over nerfed is the loss of adrenaline when out of combat. There should have been a grace period of 10 seconds before decays begins. As it is now, leveling warriors will never really get to use a full burst since most mobs die before getting a full bar and you don’t have time to make it to the next before decay. All a thief has to do is disengage for a few seconds and we can’t use our class mechanic.

I’m sure you are whole heartedly concerned for the pve leveling warriors out there. Your selfless concern for the “nubs” of this game is truly touching.

Black Scoutsman.5830:

Julie Yann.5379:

Black Scoutsman.5830:

Julie Yann.5379:

Kitt.2567:

currently there are more people who play necro, or, eles than warrior class in top100 of leaderboard. with regards to this fact, I wonder why they so much are nerfing warrior since april patch though. Warrior got nerfed 2 times continuously, firstly healing sig then now adrenaline and torment and etx.. rifle become just complete kitten cuz it will mostly miss. current top1 who is “jorse” is also ele.

Because the nubs got together and campaigned to nerf the big bad OP warrior. It was much easier than adapting their build and L2P.

Well then clearly you are not a nub and should have no problem adapting your build and l2p

I got 4k hour on my warrior, been playing him since launch. I will improvise, adapt, and overcome. I’m all for the changes they made in regards to losing adrenaline on burst. What got tragically over nerfed is the loss of adrenaline when out of combat. There should have been a grace period of 10 seconds before decays begins. As it is now, leveling warriors will never really get to use a full burst since most mobs die before getting a full bar and you don’t have time to make it to the next before decay. All a thief has to do is disengage for a few seconds and we can’t use our class mechanic.

I’m sure you are whole heartedly concerned for the pve leveling warriors out there. Your selfless concern for the “nubs” of this game is truly touching.

I am just stating that it is problem and wonder if Anet even realized or considered this when they made this change. What’s the point of a class mechanic if the games design doesn’t give you a chance to use it 90% of the time?

You are right, I don’t give a rats kitten about all the leveling warriors out there and care even less for all the nubs crying nerf on the forums, whatever the profession being cried about. Suck it up and deal with, nobody likes a whiner (not aimed at you). If you have a legitimate concern do it in a constructive manner and provide facts to back your concern. Don’t just hop on here and start a thread title “OMG so and so is way OP nerf this kitten” just because you got owned (again, not aimed at you).

Sykper.6583:

By design and numbers, Healing Surge is a horrid, counter-intuitive heal that might seem appealing when measured against other lower health professions. It does nothing to keep the Warrior alive though.

My numbers disagree with you. Would you mind breaking it down for me?

Sykper.6583:

Mending simply needs a bump of about 5-10% before I start considering it, as that condition clear will likely be even more needed with how Adrenaline and Cleansing Ire function after the patch.

It removes 3 conditions and heals comparatively to other professions heals on similar cool downs. Although the cast time is a bit much.

Sykper.6583:

It is not that Warriors are spoiled on Healing Signet, we just do not have a good alternative that fills the other healing roles we can run. Anyone running Healing Surge is shooting themselves in the foot, and those dedicated enough to run Mending might be going hellish out of their way into Healing Power / Regeneration that they might see conditions as the biggest threat.

Yes, warriors are spoiled on healing signet. Nothing you say will convince most players otherwise, and for good reason. The only reason anyone is “shooting themselves in the foot” with healing surge is because of the spoiling of signet. it has great heal potential, it simply requires more situational and battle awareness.

coglin.1867:

BurrTheKing.8571:

AnonMD.7263:

BurrTheKing.8571:

AnonMD.7263:

words

more words

some other words

Worse. Even though with the trait is could almost be a full cleanse, it doesn’t heal enough for that CD for it to be useable.

Actually both heals are quite good. The problem is we are completely spoiled on the signet. And to be honest, there is not reason not to use it.

I really do like Healing Surge, and Mending, though there are times you wish you had signet because all that health you gained back just dropped back again in the face of AoE, and pokes, and that poison application means you either have to use your burst and hit to cleanse, and get a much lower heal again, or use it and watch that large heal turn into a small one when poison eats 33% of it. Mending atm should be base like 7-8k heal to make it worth using over Healing surge. That’s my opinion though.

@Dancingmonkey
It’s much harder to play a Healing Surge warrior over a HS warrior. The heal is based off of how much adrenaline you’ve made while fitting and the heal itself is based on when you hit the button, when you need to use it get a satisfying heal you’ll need Full Adrenaline to hit that mark. So the heal itself is pretty impractical and inconsistent since every situation is different. Comparing to every other class, a lot of those other classes tend to stay at range and /or have protection boons or damage mitigation traits, blocks or evades. Mixed with sustain. Running Healing Surge you have no sustain except Adrenal health which is also based on adrenaline and increments of 3 seconds. The only situation where you won’t want HS on your bar are burst heavy focus, or Poison and burning and condi frequent application.

Mending can be a full cleanse however it needs to be traited to do that, not to mention that 6k heal on a class with no sustain outside of HS along with 60s CD direct damage immunity and condition prevention. Doesn’t really help your situation.as much.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Sykper.6583:

By design and numbers, Healing Surge is a horrid, counter-intuitive heal that might seem appealing when measured against other lower health professions. It does nothing to keep the Warrior alive though.

My numbers disagree with you. Would you mind breaking it down for me?

Sykper.6583:

Mending simply needs a bump of about 5-10% before I start considering it, as that condition clear will likely be even more needed with how Adrenaline and Cleansing Ire function after the patch.

It removes 3 conditions and heals comparatively to other professions heals on similar cool downs. Although the cast time is a bit much.

Sykper.6583:

It is not that Warriors are spoiled on Healing Signet, we just do not have a good alternative that fills the other healing roles we can run. Anyone running Healing Surge is shooting themselves in the foot, and those dedicated enough to run Mending might be going hellish out of their way into Healing Power / Regeneration that they might see conditions as the biggest threat.

Yes, warriors are spoiled on healing signet. Nothing you say will convince most players otherwise, and for good reason. The only reason anyone is “shooting themselves in the foot” with healing surge is because of the spoiling of signet. it has great heal potential, it simply requires more situational and battle awareness.

• What numbers? It’s undeniable that Warrior is a class based around the use of their adrenaline, not sitting on it for when you need a heal. Now, you’re even less likely to be on full adren when you need the heal. It’s too much of a risk, especially for that CD.

• The heal is comparable to other professions yes, but guess what? Warrior lacks mechanics/boons that other classes have that justify that level of healing. No Protection, no Aegis, no 100% vulnerability, only has blocks on mace/shield, no stealth, need I go on? Warriors have to face tank more damage, so it makes sense that they’re heals would be more potent.

Warriors don’t necessarily WANT to use Healing Signet, but the alternatives are terrible.

dancingmonkey.4902:

My numbers disagree with you. Would you mind breaking it down for me?

Sure thing boss!

Let’s start with Healing Signet, might as well start somewhere right?

Since every Warrior wanting to play competitively in PvP typically runs Defense Tree, unless you are trolling along ‘Sniping’ people in WvW, we will start with the baseline Healing Power of 300 on just traits alone. …Yes there are banner Warriors running healing power bunker banner builds, we don’t talk about those guys they are special.

Anyways back to Healing Signet, with 300 healing power that 362 heal jumps to a whopping 377 healing per second.

Over a 60 second fight (going with a minute fight for a reason), that amounts to 22,620 unfettered health gained a minute. Neat, Healing Signet on its own does a few thousand more than a full heal to a Warrior running all glass. I suppose we COULD go into specifics about if the Warrior pops the Healing Signet, but let’s be real here, that’s not something any Warriors do. You would only get about 3425 health over the 1.25 seconds you use to channel the signet, which begs the question why couldn’t you wait for the passive to tick for 9 seconds? It’s a really tough decision sometimes and it is hard for any warriors to judge whether they will get bursted during that time, or if they will get interrupted which causes a break in the healing signet…

…I got side-tracked, right.

22,620 unfettered health gained a minute with 300 healing power.

Let’s take a lovely look at Healing Surge now, cause you seem pretty adamant that it will outweigh Healing Signet as a comparable heal. There is a lot to take in here, but let me lay down the numbers for each stage of burst for you:
Stage 0 (You ain’t got nuthin!): 6,155
Stage 1 (Pfft, you ain’t even mad enough): 6,840
Stage 2 (You looking a bit red there pal..): 8,555
Stage 3 (Oh ** he’s fuming mad!): 10,270

And…Healing Surge can be popped once every 30 seconds (A minute fight, popped twice! Aha!), so ideally in that minute I came up with arbitrarily, you want to pop it at the 29 second mark, and the 59 second mark. …Because it takes a second to channel, hopefully not interrupted.

In the condition that said Warrior has his Adrenaline maxed out (cause you don’t want to use a burst to rid yourself of those nasty condis with CI amirite?) and he isn’t poisoned or gets interrupted during any of those Surges (because stopping healing isn’t a thing), The warrior over the course of those 60 seconds gains….

20540 unfettered healing per minute!!

….Something seems off there, let’s see…no that can’t be right.

Why does the only Burst Heal a warrior has do less healing per second under ideal settings, that should serve as the basis for any offensive orientated builds than a sustain heal?

In fact it is WORSE than some of the burst healing other professions have because it has the added condition of requiring MAXIMUM adrenaline to perform optimally, because there is no reason for Warriors to use Earthshaker, Eviscerate, Skull Crack, Combustive Shot, Flurry…hell, I will even put in Killshot at MAXIMUM adrenaline right?

It’s funny really, Healing Surge should be doing above and beyond when the Warrior has to play a bit more passive to gain the full effect of sustaining its large health pool. Yet because it is so inefficient to run Surge that Healing Signet has taken its place, and with the change to Adrenaline so it burns out of combat like no tomorrow, Healing Surge got even worse off than before!

So my question to you sir, madam…person who thinks Warriors are ‘spoiled’.

What the hell are your numbers?

Can we go back to discussing why warrior isn’t dead and baddies should quit the Q.Q because they have to put a little more effort into playing the easiest class?

I’ve already dealt with the nerf, on a rifle warrior. I’d bring up my bunker spec but after they buffed it I have no reason to play the role of rock anymore. It isn’t that bad, you miss a burst skill “whoop dee doo!” couple seconds later I’m already at 2 bars and I’m not even using CI. Adrenaline gain is incredibly easy if you know the class which by the looks of it there are a LOT of people who got slapped in the face for giving 2 kittens about actual skill and taking the easiest route (hambow).

A bit of advice, take the time to learn warrior and realize this “super nerf” was a skill check to weed out the bad players. I’m sure people who actually know warrior inside and out will adapt to this change in no time.

WoW i used to complain in other MMO’s when my entire class’s purpose changed making my build and my knowledge about said class now invalid.

And then i see these complaints

Dude, its not RIP glass warrior, its RIP glass anything except maybe good glass thieves and glass rangers. Glkittenter mesmers are dead, Glass warriors are dead, Glass guardian is hella hard, Glass necro is also dead. Anet pushed us away from power and is moving us to condition damage. I want a raise in critical damage cap or at least some kind of equilibrium between power and condition damage. So far everything has been so one sided.

Sykper.6583:

dancingmonkey.4902:

My numbers disagree with you. Would you mind breaking it down for me?

Sure thing boss!

Let’s start with Healing Signet, might as well start somewhere right?

Since every Warrior wanting to play competitively in PvP typically runs Defense Tree, unless you are trolling along ‘Sniping’ people in WvW, we will start with the baseline Healing Power of 300 on just traits alone. …Yes there are banner Warriors running healing power bunker banner builds, we don’t talk about those guys they are special.

Anyways back to Healing Signet, with 300 healing power that 362 heal jumps to a whopping 377 healing per second.

Over a 60 second fight (going with a minute fight for a reason), that amounts to 22,620 unfettered health gained a minute. Neat, Healing Signet on its own does a few thousand more than a full heal to a Warrior running all glass. I suppose we COULD go into specifics about if the Warrior pops the Healing Signet, but let’s be real here, that’s not something any Warriors do. You would only get about 3425 health over the 1.25 seconds you use to channel the signet, which begs the question why couldn’t you wait for the passive to tick for 9 seconds? It’s a really tough decision sometimes and it is hard for any warriors to judge whether they will get bursted during that time, or if they will get interrupted which causes a break in the healing signet…

…I got side-tracked, right.

22,620 unfettered health gained a minute with 300 healing power.

Let’s take a lovely look at Healing Surge now, cause you seem pretty adamant that it will outweigh Healing Signet as a comparable heal. There is a lot to take in here, but let me lay down the numbers for each stage of burst for you:
Stage 0 (You ain’t got nuthin!): 6,155
Stage 1 (Pfft, you ain’t even mad enough): 6,840
Stage 2 (You looking a bit red there pal..): 8,555
Stage 3 (Oh ** he’s fuming mad!): 10,270

And…Healing Surge can be popped once every 30 seconds (A minute fight, popped twice! Aha!), so ideally in that minute I came up with arbitrarily, you want to pop it at the 29 second mark, and the 59 second mark. …Because it takes a second to channel, hopefully not interrupted.

In the condition that said Warrior has his Adrenaline maxed out (cause you don’t want to use a burst to rid yourself of those nasty condis with CI amirite?) and he isn’t poisoned or gets interrupted during any of those Surges (because stopping healing isn’t a thing), The warrior over the course of those 60 seconds gains….

20540 unfettered healing per minute!!

….Something seems off there, let’s see…no that can’t be right.

Why does the only Burst Heal a warrior has do less healing per second under ideal settings, that should serve as the basis for any offensive orientated builds than a sustain heal?

In fact it is WORSE than some of the burst healing other professions have because it has the added condition of requiring MAXIMUM adrenaline to perform optimally, because there is no reason for Warriors to use Earthshaker, Eviscerate, Skull Crack, Combustive Shot, Flurry…hell, I will even put in Killshot at MAXIMUM adrenaline right?

It’s funny really, Healing Surge should be doing above and beyond when the Warrior has to play a bit more passive to gain the full effect of sustaining its large health pool. Yet because it is so inefficient to run Surge that Healing Signet has taken its place, and with the change to Adrenaline so it burns out of combat like no tomorrow, Healing Surge got even worse off than before!

So my question to you sir, madam…person who thinks Warriors are ‘spoiled’.

What the hell are your numbers?

You left out “mending” entirely…………….

Either way you missed my point. I was speaking in relation to healing signet, not in comparison too it. We all know HS is great. It is why every one is spoiled. This is why I specifically mentioned them in comparison to the other healing skills across the board on similar cool downs.

The problem is not that the other skills are poor, because they are not. (with the exception of mending cast time)………….The problem is that healing signet is too good in comparison.

dancingmonkey.4902:

You left out “mending” entirely…………….

Either way you missed my point. I was speaking in relation to healing signet, not in comparison too it. We all know HS is great. It is why every one is spoiled. This is why I specifically mentioned them in comparison to the other healing skills across the board on similar cool downs.

The problem is not that the other skills are poor, because they are not. (with the exception of mending cast time)………….The problem is that healing signet is too good in comparison.

(Skimmed over mending because you too seem to agree that it needs a slight change, either a cooldown change or a slightly higher healing tweak is A-OK with me.)

…You are going in circles. You don’t want to compare the numbers yet you want to say that Healing Signet has to be relatable to the other healing skills. You are drawing your whole argument about Healing Signet being too good based upon the relationship with Healing Surge and Mending. And so the best way to do that is to prove through numbers, which I showed you the hard math and truth.

So the real crux of your argument hinges on that you still believe Healing Signet is ‘too good’ of a heal, despite it being toned down quite a lot to the point where its last nerf was within an 10% decrease (It was actually 8%), meaning that at some point the balance team determined that the sustain from Healing Signet was just about tuned right for the profession. In which you seem to think they aren’t making it steep enough.

So let’s break it down some more, remember that awesome number of 22,620 per minute gained (377 a second)? If a Warrior were to run no Vitality gear whatsoever, it would come to about 18,372 health. (Source)

A full-glass warrior with the lowest health pool imaginable running Healing Signet would heal from 0% to full in 48-49 seconds. So 24-25 seconds would be around 9186 health. Sounds like a lot, until you start comparing it to other professions, and some of their sustained heals. But then we run into the problem of different professions play differently. Just because a skill like Troll Unguent heals for a fairly comparable amount of health total every 25 seconds doesn’t mean it is broken. (I actually don’t think it is, and like Healing Signet it is all a matter of saving that clutch poison to make the Ranger pay).

But why did I bring it up? Because as I said, different professions play and act differently. Warriors have a high health pool, yet why do elementalists have the capability of sustaining their health better?

Because sustain needs to scale with the health pool to be good sustain. And that is why you are absolutely wrong about Healing Signet being too good.

Healing Signet is at a point where it is countered hard by burst, yet during long fights Healing Signet will keep the Warrior healthy! It is doing its job for the Warrior profession!

So now it is a matter of realizing that if Healing Signet is where a sustained heal for a Warrior needs to be, then where do Healing Surge and Mending sit at? For a burst heal, Surge pales in comparison to the health gained versus average health pool scenario that other professions have. With the vast majority of Warriors running 20k+ health in competitive PvP, having a 45-48% heal (if the conditions are perfect) on a 30 second cooldown, is abysmal. Surge needs a pretty substantial buff to be considered a burst heal for warriors.

Mending should be an option for Warriors who want to deny condi-creep, and can sustain with regeneration (likely going into banner regen or shouts). Like you said, a cooldown reduction would be nice.

You left out “mending” entirely…………….

Either way you missed my point. I was speaking in relation to healing signet, not in comparison too it. We all know HS is great. It is why every one is spoiled. This is why I specifically mentioned them in comparison to the other healing skills across the board on similar cool downs.

The problem is not that the other skills are poor, because they are not. (with the exception of mending cast time)………….The problem is that healing signet is too good in comparison.
[/quote]

warlords right on this rather people want to admit it or not. it’s not the adrenaline loss on miss that’s the issue it’s the loss if your out of battle. many profession can through one or more ways disengage shortly from battle causing the warrior to lose his adrenaline fast and the effects are fast. take what I say with a pinch of salt because it’s not like I was in spvp or wvw and testing this out I just finshed lvling my 6 80 which took priority. (I was killing mobs at teq and genuinely shocked by what I found)

however at the rate we lose adrenaline it won’t take long for someone to abuse that to really cause a ripple effect that even good warriors may struggle with.

now I could be over exaggerating but I do think if the effects are going to be so harsh then a grace period (10 seconds as Julie previously suggested) should had been considered.

with that said I don’t agree that all warrior heals other then sig are useless. hell in spvp I tend to prefer mending. although i’ll agree totally that ad rush need rework. you either lock your self out of your burst skill to heal or you waste your heal and can use a burst skill I don’t like that… at all.

had to shorten my reply

And warriors without healing signet have no sustain whatsoever. The alternative heals might not seem so bad to some people but they are bad in relation to the warrior’s mechanics and competencies. People seem to forget that it was Healing Signet that allowed them to be top tier in PvP. Even with Cleansing Ire they were still bottom tier, mainly because they had no sustain whatsoever. Problem is, if you nerf healing signet into the ground, you pretty much take Warriors out of the PvP meta and in WvW they will be food to many classes whom just received some sizable buffs. It would be fairly easy to replace that Warrior with another Ele or an Engi with little regret. Nerfing Healing Signet hard will make Warriors worse than pre-signet buff because of all the damage nerfs to Hammer and Longbow and now currently adrenaline nerfs.

The skill floor might of been raised, maybe for bad warriors. Decent warriors already knew the importance of landing a burst because even before this nerf it was the difference between winning and losing a fight. Burst skills will always be missed no matter how good you are. Even if you count dodges and keep track of utilities used. It was more than a "well you can’t just spam adrenaline skills anymore" it was a straight up nerf for good players as well. Warriors, whom are simple by design doesn’t have that skill ceiling that most other classes do (a very well played alternative class can be just as effective if not more effective than a warrior, it is just more difficult to attain that level for most people).

Warriors have gotten nerfed the past 3 or so major patches, mainly because of 1 or two builds. The complaints aren’t that we are getting nerfed in general (cause lets be honest there are some places where we could get nerfed). The complaints are that the nerfs we get come from totally left field and ANet nerfs the wrong things.

For example, Hundred Blades and Whirlwind damage did not need to be nerfed. I could understand toning down the mobility but damage was never a problem for the Greatsword. And totally last minute they nerfed the damage of Arcing Slice which was totally unnecessary. The skill is still completely garbage whether it is an AoE or not.

Instead of seeing nerfs to Longbow and how it interacts with CI and maybe the size of it (which honestly is the main culprit here), we saw nerfs to Signet of Rage, Adrenaline, and indirectly sustain. These are global nerfs to the warrior. Problem is when you don’t nerf the main culprit, but just nerf everything around it, you are making underused builds even less viable. Worst part is that the adrenaline nerf doesn’t even effect longbow, which makes it a double whammy in terms of making it more essential. And no other weapon set got buffed. Mace auto attack cast time on 3rd swing is nothing, in fact I think they nerfed rifle by shifting its damage. Whirling Axes is still trash.

Truthfully I don’t have a problem with losing adrenaline on missed burst. I do agree however that the instant decaying of adrenaline as soon as you go out of combat is pretty disheartening and unneeded. Maybe if it was 10 seconds after leaving combat I would be OK with it, to at least give the warrior a chance to engage in combat again if he chooses to do so. Sometimes it isn’t a warrior’s choice that he isn’t in combat, why come down on Warriors so hard for that?

Our burst mechanic is much less intricate than other mechanics, and arguably not as good as other profession mechanics. Necros get an extra lifebar and 4 extra skills. Mesmers get 4 skills. Guardians get three, Engis get 4 varying skills, etc. We get one skill on a low cooldown, but also a crutch that is heavily relied upon for condi removal. Yet this burst mechanic is so integral to a warrior that if you completely take it away you might as well delete the class. People act like Warriors didn’t get punished at all for a badly timed burst. If a Warrior misses a burst that is a lot of potential DPS forgone. Missing a burst is more consequential to a warrior than missing most other skills. Also, missing a burst means Cleansing Ire doesn’t proc. Missing a burst pretty much means a green light for the opponent, it means you should be more aggressive as his potential DPS at that time is low and his vulnerability to conditions is higher. This is just as punishing in my opinion if not more as a missed Shatter, misstimed pet skill, badly used Death Shroud, etc.

And of course, the next idiot will probably come in this thread and probably say something like " YOUR JUST MAD YOUR OP AND SKILLESS CLASS GOT NERFED AND HARDER TO PLAY NO MORE SPAMMING F1 TO WIN GOOD RIDDANCE TO WARRIORS THEY FINALLY GOT NERFED AFTER MAJOR BUFFS THE LAST 5 MAJOR BALANCE PATCHES NOPE IT CANT POSSIBLY BE BECAUSE I AM A TERRIBLE ELE IT IS DEFINITELY THE WARRIOR"

Warriors honestly aren’t even that hard to beat to begin with.

I still think that Necros should get some version of HS and Warriors should get some form of Consume Condis…

AnonMD.7263:

I still think that Necros should get some version of HS and Warriors should get some form of Consume Condis…

Nor sure if serious but that i think both already have something similiar.

Warriors have mending as inferior Consume condtions and for necromancer bloodfiend could be seen as inferior HS since it also gives a passive heal (roughly 926 every 3 seconds) but with alot more counter play, more damage and it also needs a target to hit.

Ok the HS and bloodfiend comparsion may be a bit far fetched…

Not much has changed for the warrior, you just have to play a bit smarter. And as ever, at least for PvP, your most reliable CI proc is longbow F1.

KrisHQ.4719:

Never felt so good seeing people whine.
The bad warriors are now starting to realize they’re bad. So. Much. Enjoyment.

Same .. and I main warrior.

Every change which encourages me to think about what I do and how I set up my build instead of just copy and paste from (insert famous yt vid here) is a welcome change. So far I don’t even feel the changes to warr so much since the patch.

I call l2p issues here.

TBH, I never played Warrior and now for the first time I did.

I can tell, at least being a low level and PvEing that adrenaline is almost useless now. By the time you have your adrenaline to 1 bar, you allready killed all mobs and it depletes to 0 until you can find the next mob.

IMO it’s a great balance fix, but the depleting is too fast. From one mob to another there’s at least 5-10 seconds. You can’t let the adrenaline deplet with only 3 seconds.

Warrior still run cowardly if their hp drop to 50%, i dont see why RIP warrior >_>, and they still make good damage, players are just to used to the placebo game play with high damage buid = skilled player.

snow.8097:

Warlord.9074:

The Adrenaline changes killed this profession. Was fighting a thief he blinked away. Lost all adrenaline, then got rekt.

ANET you just killed your own game. Whoever Okayed these changes should be fired. And your whole balance testing team should be as well.

haha
hahahaha
ha
haha.
what i read:
“KITTEN I NEED SKILL TO WIN. HAX. CHEAT, REPORT. OP. KITTEN. QQ. where is my faceroll-win?”

anyone agreeing? Proper translation of warriorish? Right?

Not really. giving a thief control over how much adrenaline a warrior has simply by allowing him to reset it to 0 by disengaging disrupts healing, adrenal health, zerker stance, and anything else that requires adrenaline to be effective.

It’s far from wanting a faceroll win. A thief should not be allowed to say “nope, not gonna be able to even -attempt- to use -x, y z- on me” by simply running away at 20 second intervals.

Sorry, but the “Awh, its just a L2P issue” isn’t going to fly here. The majority of builds focused around adrenaline are useless now. I understand some of you guys are simply -overjoyed- that the warriors that used to just button mash and win without any forethought actually can’t do that anymore, but the nerf has severely hindered many existing and viable playstyles. I haven’t had my build severely rocked because I did not rely on adrenaline in the first place, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t players with strategy and sense that did rely on it for their damage.

In a few days all the warriors that have a shred of sense will spec tanky and slot Spiked Armor to melt happy rangers, and then people will start complaining that they’re too hard to kill. Inb4 Healing signet OP.

Those that just copy paste meta builds and hope it does all the work for them… sorry for your loss.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

The majority of builds focused around adrenaline are useless now.

If you don’t expect your builds to change along with the patches, that’s kind of insane. It’s a big change; expect big changes to your builds. Offensively oriented Warrior builds are not going to vanish, but they will need adjustments to allow them to ensure skills land. And they’re not even big adjustments, honestly- Put Throw Bolas into your build and you will land every second finisher you throw out. Kick is a bit dorkier, but you can use that too for Eviscerate.

killahmayne.9518:

words

The Critical Flaw in your Thesis is that Warriors already have Sustain.

It is called “Heavy Armor + High HP”, oh and condition clear out the ying-yang.

Before you pull the usual Stunt of “HP/Armor doesn’t matter!” go play a Thief or Elementalist or… any other class really. Armor and HP does matter and it matters a lot.

Warriors are able to soak almost twice as much damage as your ‘average’ class, and that is before healing Signet. Yeah, yeah Evasion is important. But eventually you get hit. If you play a squishy class you’ll start to notice just how much more they get punished for a misplay.

And Warriors aren’t supposed to be the Sustain/Attrition class, that is Necros.

Then again Warriors weren’t supposed to be the melee burst class, that was supposed to be Thieves.

Man, it is almost like Warriors had way too many advantages for way too long.

Xae.7204:

And Warriors aren’t supposed to be the Sustain/Attrition class, that is Necros.

That is not correct. Like necromancer and guardians they are indeed supposed to stay in fight and sustain though it. But unlike the other 2 with more mobility.

Xae.7204:

killahmayne.9518:

words

The Critical Flaw in your Thesis is that Warriors already have Sustain.

It is called “Heavy Armor + High HP”, oh and condition clear out the ying-yang.

Before you pull the usual Stunt of “HP/Armor doesn’t matter!” go play a Thief or Elementalist or… any other class really. Armor and HP does matter and it matters a lot.

Warriors are able to soak almost twice as much damage as your ‘average’ class, and that is before healing Signet. Yeah, yeah Evasion is important. But eventually you get hit. If you play a squishy class you’ll start to notice just how much more they get punished for a misplay.

And Warriors aren’t supposed to be the Sustain/Attrition class, that is Necros.

Then again Warriors weren’t supposed to be the melee burst class, that was supposed to be Thieves.

Man, it is almost like Warriors had way too many advantages for way too long.

ITT: Person that believes warriors should not sustain or deal damage.

Oh my i just wanted to roll a warrior to have alongside my ranger but seems I now need to get used to adrenaline management. Im off this idea and will just stay on my nonbow ranger till they made warrior easy enough again so i wont have to use my brains to play one.

The issue to me is that Anet failed miserably in their attempt to “balance” warrior. I’d suggest that most sPvP warriors don’t notice the nerf as much because they already were using longbow F1 with CI to clear conditions….it is obviously much easier to get a hit when the only target requirement to proc the cleanse is the ground. However, if that longbow F1 actually played by the same rules as all of our other weapons I think you might have a few more complaining. There is a massive difference in the effectiveness in using F1 with CI to clear conditions when you don’t use a longbow….the penalty for a miss, blind, block, aegis, knockback, terrain anomaly, fear etc. on your F1 using anything other than a longbow is very severe. In fact you are absolutely gimping yourself if you don’t use it.

To me longbow pre-patch was already our best weapon choice in sPvP…..now it is 100% absolutely mandatory. If hammer F1 or even the new GS F1 played by the same rules as longbow F1 then this patch might have been a decent change. Otherwise, I would have preferred to see changes made to longbow and left everything else alone.

The real culprit to warrior complaints I believe had more to do with some of the sigils, runes, and celestial in sPvP. Things like the sigil of intelligence made going with PTV and still having great burst possible…. Rune of strength helping to make it possible to self buff 25 stacks of might….or celestial making condition power hybrids so good as well. Anet just throws kitten out too often without fully understanding or appreciating how changes or new items effect the entire gameplay.

At the end of the day you simply have to question a company that doesn’t include it’s player base on some type of test server. You take a competitive game mode like sPvP and make changes to 8 classes, sigils, rune sets, etc….then toss it out for consumption and expect a quality product? Good Luck with that!

Xae.7204:

killahmayne.9518:

words

The Critical Flaw in your Thesis is that Warriors already have Sustain.

It is called "Heavy Armor + High HP", oh and condition clear out the ying-yang.

Before you pull the usual Stunt of "HP/Armor doesn’t matter!" go play a Thief or Elementalist or... any other class really. Armor and HP does matter and it matters a lot.

Warriors are able to soak almost twice as much damage as your ’average’ class, and that is **before** healing Signet. Yeah, yeah Evasion is important. But eventually you get hit. If you play a squishy class you’ll start to notice just how much more they get punished for a misplay.

And Warriors aren’t supposed to be the Sustain/Attrition class, that is Necros.

Then again Warriors weren’t supposed to be the melee burst class, that was supposed to be Thieves.

Man, it is almost like Warriors had way too many advantages for way too long.

The critical flaw in your thesis if it can be called that is that yes I do agree with you that Warriors do have Sustain. But that sustain is called Healing Signet and Cleansing Ire.

Kind of hilarious that your whole post can be disproved by the Devs admitting that Warriors pre-healing signet/CI had problems sustaining once their HP was gone and problems removing conditions.

Heavy armor and High HP are such a small part of sustaining. You need good healing, good condition removal, protection, aegis, blocking, mobility, stealth, evasion, vigor, regeneration, active defenses. Warriors have less than half of these in any given build. Heavy armor mitigates only 7% more damage than medium and about 13% more than light, this gap is bridged the more armor that is stacked. Every light armor class has decent access to protection. We are supposed to soak damage and sustain, that is the Warrior class by design. Anet even mentions that Warriors should get stronger the longer they are in a fight.

I’ve played a Thief and I’ve played an Elementalist. I’ve also played every class in structured, tournament and in WvW for a decent amount of time, at least 200 hours on each. So please don’t come with that "play an elementalist and you will see". Thieves are literally the most rewarding and least punished class when it comes to WvW roaming. D/D Elementalists at launch literally had 10x the sustain a warrior had.

Xae.7204:

killahmayne.9518:

words

The Critical Flaw in your Thesis is that Warriors already have Sustain.

It is called “Heavy Armor + High HP”, oh and condition clear out the ying-yang.

Before you pull the usual Stunt of “HP/Armor doesn’t matter!” go play a Thief or Elementalist or… any other class really. Armor and HP does matter and it matters a lot.

HP/Armor doesn’t matter and i play thief and elementalist, just in case, i also play mesmer, necro, engi and ranger, but what i played the most is warrior, thief, ele, engi.
i guess you probably have no idea how can ele (lowest hp and lowest armor) and engi have so much sustain, you never will.

Wait, I just read on another thread that cleansing ire procs for each target hit with the new GS f1, can anyone else confirm?

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Xae.7204:

killahmayne.9518:

words

The Critical Flaw in your Thesis is that Warriors already have Sustain.

It is called “Heavy Armor + High HP”, oh and condition clear out the ying-yang.

Before you pull the usual Stunt of “HP/Armor doesn’t matter!” go play a Thief or Elementalist or… any other class really. Armor and HP does matter and it matters a lot.

Warriors are able to soak almost twice as much damage as your ‘average’ class, and that is before healing Signet. Yeah, yeah Evasion is important. But eventually you get hit. If you play a squishy class you’ll start to notice just how much more they get punished for a misplay.

And Warriors aren’t supposed to be the Sustain/Attrition class, that is Necros.

Then again Warriors weren’t supposed to be the melee burst class, that was supposed to be Thieves.

Man, it is almost like Warriors had way too many advantages for way too long.

ITT: Person that believes warriors should not sustain or deal damage.

ITT Warriors with severe problems in reading comprehension demonstrate their disability.

http://mrnussbaum.com/readingpassageindex/

Xae.7204:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Xae.7204:

killahmayne.9518:

words

The Critical Flaw in your Thesis is that Warriors already have Sustain.

It is called “Heavy Armor + High HP”, oh and condition clear out the ying-yang.

Before you pull the usual Stunt of “HP/Armor doesn’t matter!” go play a Thief or Elementalist or… any other class really. Armor and HP does matter and it matters a lot.

Warriors are able to soak almost twice as much damage as your ‘average’ class, and that is before healing Signet. Yeah, yeah Evasion is important. But eventually you get hit. If you play a squishy class you’ll start to notice just how much more they get punished for a misplay.

And Warriors aren’t supposed to be the Sustain/Attrition class, that is Necros.

Then again Warriors weren’t supposed to be the melee burst class, that was supposed to be Thieves.

Man, it is almost like Warriors had way too many advantages for way too long.

ITT: Person that believes warriors should not sustain or deal damage.

ITT Warriors with severe problems in reading comprehension demonstrate their disability.

http://mrnussbaum.com/readingpassageindex/

Goodness, so snippy.

Perhaps I did not get my point across.

My point was yes, warriors have sustain. It is not tied to their armor class, though. Guardian has a comparatively small HP pool and sustains much better than Warrior.

Signet and condi clear are the only sustaining aspects of warriors. once those are exhausted, free warrior melt. The high HP pool is there because they have very little damage mitigation capabilities besides, once their utilities are on CD, unless they are under EP.

their sustain and melee burst are necessary for them to be effective though, compared with the two classes you noted as being “the” most suited classes for sustain/melee burst. They are not advantages. Before HS was buffed, warriors were loot bags.

Remember how there’s no holy trinity? Just because X is the feature of one class does not mean other classes cannot do it just as well.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Killed? Hardly. You are simply a mere mortal free kill now, like the rest of us before the patch that made Warriors viable.

ANET you just did a great justice with the game. Whoever Okayed these changes should be given a bonus. And your whole balance testing team should as well.

Fixed.