Guild Wars 2

This is why I love necro. I can take the hate. Inb4 massive buff and necro new meta. Just you all wait…we shall have our day. Once they start throwing in those mobs and bosses that can only be harmed by condis we shall be called upon.

If bosses can only by harmed by condis, we’ll bring the best condition damage dealer, and it probably won’t be necromancer.

SaintSnow.6593:

This is why I love necro. I can take the hate. Inb4 massive buff and necro new meta. Just you all wait…we shall have our day. Once they start throwing in those mobs and bosses that can only be harmed by condis we shall be called upon.

Yup. Last time it took them only 6 years to balance the mesmer for PVE. So I’m sure in about 4 years the necro should be just fine.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I’m sure in about 4 years the necro should be just fine.

You are more optimistic than I am.

oxtred.7658:

If bosses can only by harmed by condis, we’ll bring the best condition damage dealer, and it probably won’t be necromancer.

pretty much.

dungeons need Immunities , like CoF immune to fire ect and TA Hounds or some creatures weak to condis.

all the dungeons need are a Update to match the current New PvE creatures.

then Condi damage wouldn’t be such a waste and Dpsing down a Nigh impossiable creature with that Resistance to Direct damage will make dungeons much more Team comp Friendly and promote things that arn’t stack burst/dps.

Well if they made putrid mark aoe cleans again then that’s some support at least.
I can wait for the day when necro might be good, not like I pve much anyways.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

coglin.1867:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

oxtred.7658:

Please stop saying necro dps is the lowest, for god’s sake. How can you make a rant post about people not understanding the game and still say necro’s flaws are in its dps is beyond me.

It’s a fact that necro’s dps is the lowest in game. Necros also do not have any unique buffs they can bring to the group. Sadly enough GW2 dungeons can be played in such a way that most dungeon mechanics do not come to play. When stacking together in one tiny spot and burst dps’ing everything is viable, there are going to be classes left out.

I don’t think the devs meant for this to happen when they designed the dungeons, but none wants to spend 2 hours killing trash mobs before reaching a boss.

So yes, sadly enough, in the current “meta” dungeon runs, a necromancer keeps the group behind.

Prove it. Because I think you assuming, without knowing. I have participated in DPS test in the past. Posted videos on the matter. My experience with DPS says other wise.

thief
Ele
Engineer
Ranger
Warrior
Guardian
Mesmer
Necro

These are the dps rankings after the september ballance update.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2gol18/dps_ranking/

I think you are really high with that ranking.

SaintSnow.6593:

This is why I love necro. I can take the hate. Inb4 massive buff and necro new meta. Just you all wait…we shall have our day. Once they start throwing in those mobs and bosses that can only be harmed by condis we shall be called upon.

Again, the damage is not what makes necros unwanted. It’s their lack of having anything else of substantial use to the team.

Why bring a necro when I could bring a mesmer/engi/war/whatever that can do condi damage and more.

1. Me
2. Everyone else, class doesn’t matter.

Make bosses that are only vulnerable when a necro is in 600 range. Fixed!

rogerwilko.6895:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I’m sure in about 4 years the necro should be just fine.

You are more optimistic than I am.

It was actually 5 years so you might have to wait 1 year less.

Snakebyte.2804:

Make bosses that are only vulnerable when a necro is in 600 range. Fixed!

Only if he’s wearing ascended nomad gear as well.

quaniesan.8497:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

coglin.1867:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

oxtred.7658:

Please stop saying necro dps is the lowest, for god’s sake. How can you make a rant post about people not understanding the game and still say necro’s flaws are in its dps is beyond me.

It’s a fact that necro’s dps is the lowest in game. Necros also do not have any unique buffs they can bring to the group. Sadly enough GW2 dungeons can be played in such a way that most dungeon mechanics do not come to play. When stacking together in one tiny spot and burst dps’ing everything is viable, there are going to be classes left out.

I don’t think the devs meant for this to happen when they designed the dungeons, but none wants to spend 2 hours killing trash mobs before reaching a boss.

So yes, sadly enough, in the current “meta” dungeon runs, a necromancer keeps the group behind.

Prove it. Because I think you assuming, without knowing. I have participated in DPS test in the past. Posted videos on the matter. My experience with DPS says other wise.

thief
Ele
Engineer
Ranger
Warrior
Guardian
Mesmer
Necro

These are the dps rankings after the september ballance update.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2gol18/dps_ranking/

I think you are really high with that ranking.

Yes, seems you know better than people who know all classes, hold several world speed records and have done an actual dps test. We are sorry.

Ranger – in 99% of the cases.. since it’s my main and I know the class very well.
If its get rough, its not too uncommon that I’m the last one standing… sometimes saving the lot, so we dont wipe.

Necros are in such an incredibly sad position comparatively to others at the moment that it is truly mind boggling. Bottom of everyone’s list. It offers the least amount dps and utility in the game currently.

Disastro.4086:

Necros are in such an incredibly sad position comparatively to others at the moment that it is truly mind boggling.

Considering that I, a necro main since GW1, ranked Necro #9 on “most desirable dungeon profession?”

Yeah. The profession is pretty much right in PvP and WvW, but we need tons of help in PvE.

1. Ele
2. Guardian
3. Engineer
4. Ranger / Warrior
6. Mesmer / Thief
8. Necro

Engi is top notch pve class right now superior then warrior.

just saying.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

quaniesan.8497:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

coglin.1867:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

oxtred.7658:

Please stop saying necro dps is the lowest, for god’s sake. How can you make a rant post about people not understanding the game and still say necro’s flaws are in its dps is beyond me.

It’s a fact that necro’s dps is the lowest in game. Necros also do not have any unique buffs they can bring to the group. Sadly enough GW2 dungeons can be played in such a way that most dungeon mechanics do not come to play. When stacking together in one tiny spot and burst dps’ing everything is viable, there are going to be classes left out.

I don’t think the devs meant for this to happen when they designed the dungeons, but none wants to spend 2 hours killing trash mobs before reaching a boss.

So yes, sadly enough, in the current “meta” dungeon runs, a necromancer keeps the group behind.

Prove it. Because I think you assuming, without knowing. I have participated in DPS test in the past. Posted videos on the matter. My experience with DPS says other wise.

thief
Ele
Engineer
Ranger
Warrior
Guardian
Mesmer
Necro

These are the dps rankings after the september ballance update.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2gol18/dps_ranking/

I think you are really high with that ranking.

Yes, seems you know better than people who know all classes, hold several world speed records and have done an actual dps test. We are sorry.

I followed that link, it just lead to a fancy opinion. Also it clearly negated group buffs which is funny that they put ranger ahead of warrior. Hell they even put guardian below ranger :/

(In the correct form) IMO, that list looks like a complete shot in the dark.

You also have to factor in risks for such dps builds, where something as simple as a trash mob can down you. Downed player = rank 8 dps, even these “elitists” I watch screw up a lot thinking quicker dps = guaranteed success and I shake my head when they get smacked down in their full ascended non-sense.

At the end of the day, player skill > profession “dps”.

I don’t run dungeons enough to rank the classes on the whole, so I will give the copout answer: I rank them based on the skill of the person playing the class.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Ropechef.6192:

if you read the reddit thread you will also see the link to the spreadsheet.

http://dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/13987449-dps-estimates-for-each-professions-in-30s-battles

This is outdated. In no way at the moment a warrior’s dps is better than a ranger’s or an engi’s

Wait a second. You just berated me in a previous post and said….

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Those tests were made with meta builds, meta gear, and yes they are legit. If you don’t wanna believe it and delude yourself, go ahead, I’m not going to search for further proof. If you wanna do further research do it yourself. I just posted the truth. I couldn’t care less if you believe it or not.

Yet now you claim it is out dated and not factually accurate. Hypocrite much?

That is the same spread sheet in that thread I was referring too. What was the term you used for this situation? “Delude yourself” I think it was?

Gaile Gray.6029:

Great thread. I’d like to know more about why people make the choices they do, and some provided that info. Overall, though, it’s really interesting to read the lists!

Any thoughts you’d be willing to share with us? Any problematic trends you’ve noticed?

IMO.
I would like to be part of a party that has a

Guardian (reflects / stability / all the other good things the cheating guardians bring)
Ele (fire/etc fields and them magic bows)
Thief (blast them fields, stealth ze party)

Top:
1. Elementalist
2. Guardian
3. Thief

Medium:
4. Warrior
5. Engineer
6. Ranger

Low:
7. Mesmer

Necromancer:
8. Necromancer

Yes, I gave Necromancer their own tier in terms of lest useful in dungeons.

I’m also a hypocrite who mains Necromancers, and takes them into dungeons.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Great thread. I’d like to know more about why people make the choices they do, and some provided that info. Overall, though, it’s really interesting to read the lists!

The problem is that Necromancer is a one trick pony.

With certain traits, we are able to stack and maintain 25 stacks of vulnerability faster and more efficient than an Engineer…. Which is cool, but not good enough to justify a Necromancer in a dungeon.

Necromancer possesses no unique buffs or abilities any useful for the team.

Ele has highest DPS in the game + Frost Bow + Might stacks
Warriors have banners,
Guardians have wall of reflection + Aegis spam, and VERY high DPS
Thief has “Improvised”, making them best Ice Bow user… Also has stealth and teleports.
Ranger has frost spirit and spotter
Mesmer has time warp and portal
Engineer can stealth and stack tons of vuln, with an array of other useful abilities

What can Necromancer do? Sure, they stack vuln, but the rest of your team should be doing that anyway.

Curiously enough the issues people seem to have with Necromancers are quite specific.
For example talking about raw DPS, there seems to be a lack of multi-target bosses.

I noticed when bringing my DS-Necro alt to Tequatl that when everyone talks about “Hey, stand on this spot and melee to hit him twice”, I can trivially hit him thrice, both with the DS Auto and the Lich Auto (and twice with the dagger auto now, ofc).
The DPS is noticeably better than what I can produce on my other characters, and it helps that none of these AAs provide any damaging condition at all, I don’t lose anything there.

And for plenty such events, Necros are an amazing class. It’s more that the extremely simplistic design of dungeons disallows use of any non-straightforward ability. Enemies are all straightforward, so there’s never a variety of attacks needed.

I would say if you as a player desire better dungeon balance, ask for better dungeon design, not class balance.

Any class that constantly buff the party with might, fury and vulnerable on mobs. =x

Honestly, there is no bad class in DPS, I’ve only stumbled upon bad players which do not know their class potential:

i)Ignorance of combo and tactics. Etc, Hammer guard that interrupt Eles Blast finishes on FireField with its AA light field, self dreaming his Fire Field + Hammer 2 is better than Eles.

ii) Guardian/Thief/Engineer/Mesmer that wasting projectile reflection utilities. Example, the Golem boss in CoE, use your wall ONLY when the Golem is channeling its skill, this is what kills Eles in your party.

I’ve pug with necros numerous time and they in fact surprised me. I love them for how good they can sustain themselves while on the same time deal good DPS. Hence, i leveled a necro with hacking style (60 tomes of knowledge). From testing, I dealed 5k damage on each hit on Death Shroud mode, it is like hacking if were to pair up with Quickness. Hence to reply OP, classes do not determine what class i bring, but its their AP.

Some may argue blablabla AP is nothing.
I want to tell you the truth from my experience, the ratio of 10 persons of 10k AP above, only 1 bad player in it. While the ratio of 10 persons of 3k AP below, 9 of them are extremely ignorance.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Great thread. I’d like to know more about why people make the choices they do, and some provided that info. Overall, though, it’s really interesting to read the lists!

I hope you are not missing the most crucial point to learn from all of the replies here, darling:

The necromancer is at the bottom of nearly everyone’s list.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I hope you are not missing the most crucial point to learn from all of the replies here, darling:

The necromancer is at the bottom of nearly everyone’s list.

I think you lost her at “darling”. :P
That being said, Necromancers struggle for similar reasons a lot of PvE struggles happen, so I hope the devs don’t get “blinded” by player rage here: AI and mob design.

If PvE was even the tiniest bit more complex in how the enemies interact with us – I mean, look at Toxic Alliance for a teensy step in the right direction – then a lot of abilities on a lot of classes would be a lot more useful, instead of just melee might stacking.

Carighan.6758:

I think you lost her at “darling”. :P
That being said, Necromancers struggle for similar reasons a lot of PvE struggles happen, so I hope the devs don’t get “blinded” by player rage here: AI and mob design.

You forgot condition cap as well and champ buffs (but that may be considered as mob design).

If PvE was even the tiniest bit more complex in how the enemies interact with us – I mean, look at Toxic Alliance for a teensy step in the right direction – then a lot of abilities on a lot of classes would be a lot more useful, instead of just melee might stacking.

A step in the right was made with the introduction of mordrem mobs, but it seems that it is too difficult for the player base. I mean 1 squishy mob with aoe retaliaton that has a clear tell and what do they do with? Change it to swiftness, the most useles boon in the game for a mob. I’m also thinking that the other mobs got a nerf as well. Oh well, at least the new ones are complex as well, but it would be better with the unnerfed version. (Imagine a mender, a husk and an old mordred wolf , that would be a challenge for some.)

When I talk about my own classes I like doing dungeons on my warrior and necromancer. I have just recently got my 5th class to 80 (Guardian) that also seems to be fun for dungeons. The reason I take my warrior the most though is because he is my main and I enjoy the playstyle the most. A warrior is capable of blocking damage through a shield and stance, it can stunspam if needed, it can do decent damage, can stack vulnerability, it has good group buffs with shouts and banners. It can basically fulfill a ton of roles and I like having the ability to change that quickly. I feel that my necromancer is more limited in what it can do in dungeons when I compare him to my warrior.

As for my mesmer and thief, I just don’t play those 2 very much so I don’t really have much of an opinion on those classes. And my other classes aren’t near level 80 yet.

I think all class good, it really depends on the player. Killing bosses 20secs faster or finishing a dungeon 1 or 2 min quicker big woap, its not a big deal.

Player also need to take into account the effort/skill req to play certain classes. Most people pug so there experience will be based of that.

Time spent dodging and healing is time you are not doing dps. This is why warriors are highly rated they have good support. They don’t have to worry about surviving and can just focus on attacking.

If I am pugging I would rather be safe and have a warrior over a thief, who in most cases is constantly downed and in range most of the time.

Most gw2 playets cannot play classes optimally which has shaped the options of many people.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Great thread. I’d like to know more about why people make the choices they do, and some provided that info. Overall, though, it’s really interesting to read the lists!

It’s not that hard to figure out the meta for dungeon running. I hope you really are just interested in hearing other peoples opinions as opposed to actually not knowing which classes are the best to take. If that’s the case and you don’t know then why bother working on this game if you’re not going to play it enough to know what’s good and what’s bad?

My personal rankings for classes in dungeons (might be a bit outdated).

#1: Elementalist: The ele brings a lot of damage, both single target and AoE, while also providing fire/water/lightning fields and plenty of blast finishers. They can be built for full DPS and stack might/fury, or built for support to provide protection and various utilities. Their sheer amount of weapon skills provides a lot of utilities, and they can adapt to any crazy situation that gets thrown at them. Only weakness being their frailty, having to rely on dodges and vigor to stay alive in the pack, and they will die very quickly sometimes.

#2: Guardian: Guards provide a lot of the more unique utiliites that eles are lacking (AoE Pull, AoE reflect, Aegis, blinds), while also providing useful services like Cleanses and swiftness. More defensive overall, but still something that will be useful on nearly every team. Weaknesses being a weaker ranged game, lower DPS (I guess, don’t quote me on that), and still frail.

#3: Warrior: This original bastion of high health + high armor + regen is still quite useful in the game. Their high durability lets them facetank many enemies even in zerker gear, and they provide a series of unique buffs as well as might stacking. They have solid burst damage, and a sweet AoE rez to boot. Weakesses being that, other than the occasional stun, they have little defensive utility. I’m also not to sure about their ranged capabilities either (but by sheer bulk and defense they rarely need to range).

#4: Thief: Thieves are a nice mix of incredibly powerful defensive capabilities and aggro management with the highest damage in the game. Their stealth alone usually guarantees them a spot on the team, let alone spammable boon stripping, high evasion, perpetual AoE blindness, spammable blast finisher, and plenty of defiance stripping abilities. Their weakness is that they lack any offensive team buffs and their ranged combat isn’t that good, giving them a redundancy problem. While it is useful to have more than one ele/guard/warrior on the team, a second thief offers little to no advantage over just the one.

#5: Engineer. Now, the engineer is a jack of all trades, having far more utility than the elementalist. The engineer is capable of nearly everything, having a combination of fields and blast finishers, blinds and reflects, stability and stealth, heals and rezzes, cleanses and pulls, etc. and so on. In fact, the Engi is best at stacking vulnerability and second in long range damage. The weakness being that, whatever an engi does, another class is probably already doing better, and a large amount of DPS from an engi comes from their condis. But, with their versatility, engis are great for pugs.

Those five are the top tier. Now we get on to the others…

#6: Mesmer: The mesmer has a lot of niche uses, such as boon stripping, excellent reflect uptime, and cleric skills. The mesmer also has excellent damage in the right circumstances, and portal is always a good backup. But, outside of these niches and circumstances, the mesmer loses out and starts to feel dull, with both little to contribute ofensively, defensively, and also with fairly low damage. Mesmers will still find their place in dungeons, though, and they can have an excellent ranged game with their phantasms.

#7: Ranger. The ranger isn’t too bad of a class on its own. It does many things correctly, such as having unique team buffs, fire fields, decent dodges and fury. However, the ranger has two big problems with it: It lacks real potency and identity in its abilities, and it has an AI with it constantly. It is always hard to evaluate the rangers, since I rarely see them do anything inside a stack or out of it, and most of the time rangers will have to fight with their pets to get anything done. The pet itself is often a liability, since many enemies gain advantages from merely hitting something, an they pets don’t dodge.

#8: Necromancer. Necros are in the same bulk class as warriors in that they are extremely tanky. However, the necro has so many flaws it is painful to list them all:
1) Sustained damage instead of burst damage. High burst is useful since travel time eases cooldowns, giving good bursts higher overall DPS.
2)Lack of offensive team buffs. The necro is a selfish buffer, with their only contribution to team offense being vulnerability (which most people can do).
3)Their useful utilities (blind spam, boon corruption), come with dark fields, which are arguably the most useless field in the game.
4)They lack useful combo fields and combo finishers.
5)Their ranged combat is pretty bad, being almost wholly reliant on condis.
6)They lack vigor and dodges, making them vulnerable to on-hit effects from bosses.
7)Lack of unique buffs.
8)Lack of potency. Most of the good things necros do (blinds, vulnerability, weakness, boon removal), other classes do better.
9)Lack of cleave, with the recently buffed dagger auto being the best necros have.
10)Fear ruins stacks and coordination.
The necro does have some good things about it. It has decent sustained damage, decent chill, decent self buffing, and IMO the best AoE stun in the game via Wail of Doom. But there simply isn’t enough to warrant a necro’s place on the team over anything else.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

#8: Necromancer.
(snip)
1) Sustained damage instead of burst damage. High burst is useful since travel time eases cooldowns, giving good bursts higher overall DPS.
(snip)
9)Lack of cleave, with the recently buffed dagger auto being the best necros have.

Now, I’m not disagreeing with most of what you say, but really? Do you take Condi-Necros into dungeons?
Because all dungeons I’ve ran on my Necro were as a pure DS 6/2/0/0/6 build in full zerker, and they have ample direct damage, even on-demand with Lich Form, and a very solid AE due to the very wide projectile path Life Blast / Plague Blast / Deadly Claws have.

They’re still meh for dungeons due to, as you say, their utility never being needed and hence all they can bring (like dark fields) falling flat. But their raw attacks are very potent and quite useful.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Great thread. I’d like to know more about why people make the choices they do, and some provided that info. Overall, though, it’s really interesting to read the lists!

The lists are all about the same and rank things by the support they offer.

Elementalist is pretty much always first because it caps fury for hours, gives might, has access to blind, projectile defense, condi removal, swiftness, and it does a great dps on top of that. Then come guardians and their defensive support, warriors with their unique offensive support buff ( banners), engis, thieves, mesmers and rangers for the specifics they bring, mostly stealth for engi and thief, portal and defensive support for mesmer and offensive support for ranger. And then there’s necro, with nothing of that.

tl;dr: This game isn’t about dps.

Carighan.6758:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

#8: Necromancer.
(snip)
1) Sustained damage instead of burst damage. High burst is useful since travel time eases cooldowns, giving good bursts higher overall DPS.
(snip)
9)Lack of cleave, with the recently buffed dagger auto being the best necros have.

Now, I’m not disagreeing with most of what you say, but really? Do you take Condi-Necros into dungeons?
Because all dungeons I’ve ran on my Necro were as a pure DS 6/2/0/0/6 build in full zerker, and they have ample direct damage, even on-demand with Lich Form, and a very solid AE due to the very wide projectile path Life Blast / Plague Blast / Deadly Claws have.

They’re still meh for dungeons due to, as you say, their utility never being needed and hence all they can bring (like dark fields) falling flat. But their raw attacks are very potent and quite useful.

… Apparently there is a miscommunication here.

Sustained vs. burst damage is not about condi vs. direct damage. It is about how the Necromancer’s damage rotation focuses mostly on its auto attack and thus outputs a steady stream of damage. Other classes have options to unload a lot of damage all at once. For example, a thief can backstab + heartseeker an enemy into oblivion fairly quickly, or a scepter ele can… go through its rotation to kill an enemy much faster than the necro’s sustained attacks could.

On paper, these would be balanced out: after the thief blows all their initiative or an ele swaps through all their attunements, they are stuck with an inferior auto to the necro who will eventually catch up in damage. However, in practice what happens is the thief/ele kills the enemy really quickly, then recharge their skills during the travel between groups of enemies. Thus, from encounter to encounter, other classes are continually obliterating enemies, whereas the necromancer is stuck planning for the long haul on short term engagements.

To be fair, double well+ warhorn 5+ focus 4 is some huge burst. Long cooldown, but devastating.

only ones I’ve done dungeons (normal 8, not including the LS “dungeons”) with
1. ele (I get the most fun out of it, constantly having to switch attunements and theres the downed mf skill)
2. guardian
3. warrior

The rest are about equal, but I’ve put them in the list of the way I would most likely.
4. engineer
5. ranger
6. necromancer
7. thief
8. mesmer

(staff) Ele is my main go to for most stuff.
While I like both of my engineers, I just haven’t brought either of them into a dungeon, mainly cause I’m not sure of what to really use (ones set for ‘nades and the other FT).
Kinda same reason for my Ranger and Necro. I don’t mind doing open world pve with them, but they seem like they wouldn’t have the same dps my top four would.
Thief and Mesmer are my most disliked classes, so I rarely ever use those toons.

1 Ele : very nice buffs for the team(Might & fury) very nice dmg and conjure weapons
2 Warrior: Nice unique buffs like 150 str whole team, banners and nice dmg (also possible to stack might for the team if needed)
3 Guardian: Really good for reflects at some dungions and nice dmg
4 thief: really good dmg and stealth for some dungions
5 Enigneer: good dmg and vun stacking
6 Mesmer: nice dmg and timewarp
7 Ranger: okay dmg and frost spirit and spotter
8 Necromancer: bad dmg….. no unique buffs.. could be usefull for cc or blinds but mostly not worth it by far (which is sad to see for my main class :< )

Gaile Gray.6029:

Great thread. I’d like to know more about why people make the choices they do, and some provided that info. Overall, though, it’s really interesting to read the lists!

Each profession has a pretty well defined role in most dungeon parties with a few that can jump into multiple roles.

Guardian: You’re there for the defensive utility; projectile defense, blinds, aegis, and condi cleanse. Your damage potential while maximizing your defensive utility goes down but you’re always worthwhile, with that you can also shed much of that defense and boost your damage levels to be very respectable, a very solid addition.

Mesmer: Again utility/support role. You’re going to handle reflects, condition cleansing, maybe some portaling to make things go quicker? Damage isn’t terrible if your phantasms want to cooperate but that’s not really why you’re there, but as always you want to maximize that damage.

Elementalist: Might/Fury stacking is the base level. Then Icebow is another amazing addition as is Glyph of Storms/Sandstorm both being amazing utility, Swirling winds is another thing they bring that’s pretty great. Overall it’s the premier profession, while squishy if you play well you’ll survive just fine while providing full stacks of might, permanent fury, and top notch damage. The best profession to have multiple of in a group assuming everyone knows what they’re doing.

Warrior: You provide damage and damage support, either just through banners/FGJ or even going phalanx strength.

Engi: well, you can do a lot, but your main role is pumping that vulnerability out but your elixers can substitute for having a guard/mesmer in some cases, not as good, but they’ll work in a pinch.

Ranger: Damage/Damage support again, provides decent vuln, can supply some might, but the big things are Frost Spirit and Spotter.

Thief: Damage/Stealth for the most part, but in good groups you also rip defiant stacks (something mesmer is good at as well). In the speed runs currently it’s typical to have a few Ele’s and a thief(or mes) so the Ele’s can deep freeze things with Ice Bow 5 and then kill them while they can’t even attack back, if a fight lasts longer this is where defiant stripping comes in, you strip it and repeat till it is dead or you run out of Deep Freezes. When a team pulls this off smoothly it really is impressive.

Necro: well crap, there is no reason to bring them, there is no stand out niche, you can provide a mediocre amount of vuln, some blinds, but in the end Necros niche is boon stripping which simply doesn’t have a purpose in Dungeons because of the lack of boons on enemies and the mechanics involved when they do use them.

Hope that’s helpful, that’s generally the roles and why people bring certain team compositions. Outside of that is personal preference. I’m quite sure I could usually be doing much more for my group than I do on my Engi lately, many times I’d be better off playing my Ele or Thief, but I’m absolutely loving my Engi lately so… /shrug I’m gonna play it regardless.

coglin.1867:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Ropechef.6192:

if you read the reddit thread you will also see the link to the spreadsheet.

http://dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/13987449-dps-estimates-for-each-professions-in-30s-battles

This is outdated. In no way at the moment a warrior’s dps is better than a ranger’s or an engi’s

Wait a second. You just berated me in a previous post and said….

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Those tests were made with meta builds, meta gear, and yes they are legit. If you don’t wanna believe it and delude yourself, go ahead, I’m not going to search for further proof. If you wanna do further research do it yourself. I just posted the truth. I couldn’t care less if you believe it or not.

Yet now you claim it is out dated and not factually accurate. Hypocrite much?

That is the same spread sheet in that thread I was referring too. What was the term you used for this situation? “Delude yourself” I think it was?

Yes, the spreadsheet in that thread was from the old meta. Since that spreadsheet was done…

1. Warriors got two distinct nerfs to their dps.
2. Rangers got a massive buff
3. We improved our Engineer DPS rotation further

DeKeyz has not published full updated data but that ranking…

Thief, ele, engineer, ranger, warrior, guardian, mesmer, necro is accurate. I’m not upset if you won’t take my word for it, but you can adjust it yourself if need be. Take the warrior numbers from that spreadsheet and subtract 2.5% direct dps. Take the ranger numbers and add about 15% direct dps. That change should be more the sufficient to explain the flip flop of those two professions. As far as engineer goes, Grenade barrage, Acid Bomb, Jump Shot, Blunderbuss is the most powerful burst dps in the game, and they have very high sustained DPS now thanks to Detonate Flame Blast.

-Nike

coglin.1867:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Ropechef.6192:

if you read the reddit thread you will also see the link to the spreadsheet.

http://dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/13987449-dps-estimates-for-each-professions-in-30s-battles

This is outdated. In no way at the moment a warrior’s dps is better than a ranger’s or an engi’s

Wait a second. You just berated me in a previous post and said….

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Those tests were made with meta builds, meta gear, and yes they are legit. If you don’t wanna believe it and delude yourself, go ahead, I’m not going to search for further proof. If you wanna do further research do it yourself. I just posted the truth. I couldn’t care less if you believe it or not.

Yet now you claim it is out dated and not factually accurate. Hypocrite much?

That is the same spread sheet in that thread I was referring too. What was the term you used for this situation? “Delude yourself” I think it was?

Right from the link you copy-pasted here: Posted Jul 22, 14 · OP · Last edited Jul 22, 14

At least check the numbers before posting drama stuff…

hybrid.5027:

coglin.1867:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Ropechef.6192:

if you read the reddit thread you will also see the link to the spreadsheet.

http://dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/13987449-dps-estimates-for-each-professions-in-30s-battles

This is outdated. In no way at the moment a warrior’s dps is better than a ranger’s or an engi’s

Wait a second. You just berated me in a previous post and said….

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Those tests were made with meta builds, meta gear, and yes they are legit. If you don’t wanna believe it and delude yourself, go ahead, I’m not going to search for further proof. If you wanna do further research do it yourself. I just posted the truth. I couldn’t care less if you believe it or not.

Yet now you claim it is out dated and not factually accurate. Hypocrite much?

That is the same spread sheet in that thread I was referring too. What was the term you used for this situation? “Delude yourself” I think it was?

Yes, the spreadsheet in that thread was from the old meta. Since that spreadsheet was done…

1. Warriors got two distinct nerfs to their dps.
2. Rangers got a massive buff
3. We improved our Engineer DPS rotation further

DeKeyz has not published full updated data but that ranking…

Thief, ele, engineer, ranger, warrior, guardian, mesmer, necro is accurate. I’m not upset if you won’t take my word for it, but you can adjust it yourself if need be. Take the warrior numbers from that spreadsheet and subtract 2.5% direct dps. Take the ranger numbers and add about 15% direct dps. That change should be more the sufficient to explain the flip flop of those two professions. As far as engineer goes, Grenade barrage, Acid Bomb, Jump Shot, Blunderbuss is the most powerful burst dps in the game, and they have very high sustained DPS now thanks to Detonate Flame Blast.

-Nike

Im working in my engi rotations. In the meanwhile, do you know how much dps is lost for (lets say worst escenario) just nade spamming?

Ryn.6459:

hybrid.5027:

coglin.1867:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Ropechef.6192:

if you read the reddit thread you will also see the link to the spreadsheet.

http://dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/13987449-dps-estimates-for-each-professions-in-30s-battles

This is outdated. In no way at the moment a warrior’s dps is better than a ranger’s or an engi’s

Wait a second. You just berated me in a previous post and said….

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Those tests were made with meta builds, meta gear, and yes they are legit. If you don’t wanna believe it and delude yourself, go ahead, I’m not going to search for further proof. If you wanna do further research do it yourself. I just posted the truth. I couldn’t care less if you believe it or not.

Yet now you claim it is out dated and not factually accurate. Hypocrite much?

That is the same spread sheet in that thread I was referring too. What was the term you used for this situation? “Delude yourself” I think it was?

Yes, the spreadsheet in that thread was from the old meta. Since that spreadsheet was done…

1. Warriors got two distinct nerfs to their dps.
2. Rangers got a massive buff
3. We improved our Engineer DPS rotation further

DeKeyz has not published full updated data but that ranking…

Thief, ele, engineer, ranger, warrior, guardian, mesmer, necro is accurate. I’m not upset if you won’t take my word for it, but you can adjust it yourself if need be. Take the warrior numbers from that spreadsheet and subtract 2.5% direct dps. Take the ranger numbers and add about 15% direct dps. That change should be more the sufficient to explain the flip flop of those two professions. As far as engineer goes, Grenade barrage, Acid Bomb, Jump Shot, Blunderbuss is the most powerful burst dps in the game, and they have very high sustained DPS now thanks to Detonate Flame Blast.

-Nike

Im working in my engi rotations. In the meanwhile, do you know how much dps is lost for (lets say worst escenario) just nade spamming?

The difference between a gs warrior using 2-5 on cool down vs one who just auto attacks.

Ryn.6459:

hybrid.5027:

coglin.1867:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Ropechef.6192:

if you read the reddit thread you will also see the link to the spreadsheet.

http://dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/13987449-dps-estimates-for-each-professions-in-30s-battles

This is outdated. In no way at the moment a warrior’s dps is better than a ranger’s or an engi’s

Wait a second. You just berated me in a previous post and said….

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Those tests were made with meta builds, meta gear, and yes they are legit. If you don’t wanna believe it and delude yourself, go ahead, I’m not going to search for further proof. If you wanna do further research do it yourself. I just posted the truth. I couldn’t care less if you believe it or not.

Yet now you claim it is out dated and not factually accurate. Hypocrite much?

That is the same spread sheet in that thread I was referring too. What was the term you used for this situation? “Delude yourself” I think it was?

Yes, the spreadsheet in that thread was from the old meta. Since that spreadsheet was done…

1. Warriors got two distinct nerfs to their dps.
2. Rangers got a massive buff
3. We improved our Engineer DPS rotation further

DeKeyz has not published full updated data but that ranking…

Thief, ele, engineer, ranger, warrior, guardian, mesmer, necro is accurate. I’m not upset if you won’t take my word for it, but you can adjust it yourself if need be. Take the warrior numbers from that spreadsheet and subtract 2.5% direct dps. Take the ranger numbers and add about 15% direct dps. That change should be more the sufficient to explain the flip flop of those two professions. As far as engineer goes, Grenade barrage, Acid Bomb, Jump Shot, Blunderbuss is the most powerful burst dps in the game, and they have very high sustained DPS now thanks to Detonate Flame Blast.

-Nike

Im working in my engi rotations. In the meanwhile, do you know how much dps is lost for (lets say worst escenario) just nade spamming?

I’ve been wondering this too.

I was able to look at one of their calculations for the max DPS and removing some of the attacks and replacing it with just grenade1’s we’re looking at like 60-70% of the damage of the full rotation. But, to note, you also lose all that burst, which is important in some situations. Just to be clear though that’s a estimation, not factual data and I believe I left in the rifle usage in there so just removed the elixer/flamethrower and bombs from dodges.

I never look at others profession in dungeon. I will look at their level and achievement points if I don’t feel like babysitting but otherwise that is all.

Unless you run dungeons like a business where each second lost is a loss of profit I don’t see the point. When I play I sure don’t want to stress myself with yet more productivity crap. Real life is already pretty imbecile in that regard already if you ask me. No need to carry that attitude into a game.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I never look at others profession in dungeon. I will look at their level and achievement points if I don’t feel like babysitting but otherwise that is all.

Achievent points is the real deal!

lol…