Guild Wars 2

I’m all right with the burst. While the damage potential was basically increased by 150% (extra time to fire extra arrows compared to old Rapid Fire), the actual damage it does… still the same.

What’s really annoying, and no amount of reflect bullcrap sorcery will ever beat, is its really low cooldown. It’s 10 seconds, 8 with the trait. Most longbow rangers will go secondary GS or S/D, both of which are used to create distance easily.

Rapid Fire needs to have it’s CD increased by at least 30%, to 13s untraited, 11s traited, lowering its downtime but keeping its burst.

Edit: 60% may be a bit too much. Still does the same damage after all. Also realize that at 8s traited, it’s basically 100b but better, easier setup, 1,500 range, can move and turn while channeling, projectile finishers.

Despite making the reflect point, people still argue with it? What’s the cooldown on your reflect, and what’s the cooldown on auto attack and rapid fire? In most cases, 25-30s vs 0s and 8s.

+1 I agree. 15 char

ppl wanted ranger buff nerfed from the night of the patch lol. But no sorry i dont main a ranger but i believe its about time rangers shine in wvw. Not everyone will keep playing ranger, its only for the moment because of the hype, but i like how rangers make a difference in wvw now, before they barely were noticeable and frankly were hated and called noobs by wvw guilds. So no, i disagree, anet will keep this as is, its not like the ranger aoes like a meteor shower, were talking about single target it is not unbalanced.

Why not learn how to counter it before asking for nerfs ? I still have to die against LB ranger and I fought many of them in the past 2 days.

WEXXES.2378:

I’m all right with the burst. While the damage potential was basically increased by 150% (extra time to fire extra arrows compared to old Rapid Fire), the actual damage it does… still the same.

What’s really annoying, and no amount of reflect bullcrap sorcery will ever beat, is its really low cooldown. It’s 10 seconds, 8 with the trait. Most longbow rangers will go secondary GS or S/D, both of which are used to create distance easily.

Rapid Fire needs to have it’s CD increased by at least 60%, to 16s untraited, 13s traited, lowering its downtime but keeping its burst.

ummm..

Mind Wrack-11 sec
blurred frenzy-12 sec
Eviscerate-10 seconds
Arcing slice-10 seconds
volley-10seconds
Backstab- LOL
unload- LEL
Ghastly Claws-8 seconds
Life Blast- auto
Whirling wrath-10seconds

Elementalist-9 seconds

Almost every class has a burst move on a short cooldown.

The problem is ranged projectiles floating the extra 200u
and people not dodgeing

Also the damage from this attack stayed the same..now you can dodge the entire thing.

Yeah brcause other classes’ bursts are on such high cooldown, like backstab, fresh air, mind wrack, whirling wrath, life blast, static discharge/ 10 sec icd on potentially 7 seconds burning, any warrior’s F1.
You’re right, we’re so better than everyone else.

We still can’t win any fight against any slightly skilled medi guard, s/f ele, s/d or d/p thief.
There’s nothing we can beat now that we couldn’t beat before. You all were just no aware if it, since there aren’t a lot of active & skilled power rangers in pvp and wvw.

All other burst isn’t 1500 or more range away

T raw.4658:

All other burst isn’t 1500 or more range away

So is the complaint range? because like with any skill….
you can dodge…

that is a thing…

That much damage that fast from that range is game breaking.

T raw.4658:

That much damage that fast from that range is game breaking.

So…
Is that much damage from melee gamebreaking too?

I’m not sure what the pointis.
You can dodge both.

You can reflect one.

Yup the damage they can do from 1500 range is just silly. Also its way to easy for rangers to get there burst off, like seriously press 2 and watch things die +the short cd its not right. 1v1 is not the issue its in group setting with multiple rangers. Very easy to focus down target b4 they even reach the ranger.

Zerker thiefs are alot easier to deal with if they want to do any real damage they have to get in melee range. In alot of team fights there is so much cluster kitten aoe all over the place the thief really have to think and position himself well or its gg. The ranger just finds and nice play to camp spams auto and rf.

vincecontix.1264:

Yup the damage they can do from 1500 range is just silly. Also its way to easy for rangers to get there burst off, like seriously press 2 and watch things die +the short cd its not right. 1v1 is not the issue its in group setting with multiple rangers. Very easy to focus down target b4 they even reach the ranger.

Zerker thiefs are alot easier to deal with if they want to do any real damage they have to get in melee range. In alot of team fights there is so much cluster kitten aoe all over the place the thief really have to think and position himself well or its gg. The ranger just finds and nice play to camp spams auto and rf.

but..
The damage they do is the same as it was prepatch…

Just faster and easier to dodge.

Nothing has changed on the damage coefficient.

So now to the next question.
Are people upset because they have to pay attention to a class now?

Here you can has maths

Solandri.9640:

PhantomClutch.7825:

Just so I understand.

Everyone defending agrees its ok to do 20k+ damage

Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

An exotic longbow has 1000 average base damage.
Rapid Fire’s cumulative skill coefficient is 3.75.
Assume the target’s armor is 1800.
Assume Steady Focus (10% extra damage when endurance full).
Assume Eagle Eye (5% extra damage for longbow). Means no Spotter.
Assume Hunter’s tactics (10% extra damage when flanking).
Assume Peak Strength (10% extra damage when hp over 90%).
Assume Scholar runes (10% extra damage when hp over 90%).
Assume Sigil of Force (5% extra damage).
Assume Sigil of Bloodlust (250 extra power).
Assume 10% vulnerability from Opening Strike (5% + avg 5% from RF)

All those assumptions mandate a 45500 build. Outfitting it with exotic berserker’s armor and ascended berserker’s trinkets yields:
2355 power
51% crit chance
222% crit damage

1000 (2355+250) *3.75 *(1+0.51(2.22-1)) *(1+.1+.1+.1+.05+.05) *1.1 / 1800 = 13,558 damage

Methinks 20k damage from RF is a teensy bit of an exaggeration. I left out food and sharpening stone, but I think it’s pretty clear damage is nowhere near 20k. Maybe if someone else were giving you 25 stacks of might, fury, warrior banners, you might be able to hit 20k. But then you’re not facing a solo ranger, you’re facing a team who is working together to gank you.

to someone in 1.25s (if haste works how I believe it does) just because someone didn’t evade?

No, quickness does not work like that. It used to speed up attacks 100% (halved their time). But that got nerfed down to 50% last year (ranger DPS was hardest hit by that nerf, and they got the least compensation because some of their quickness didn’t get duration extensions).

2.5s becomes 2.5/1.5 = 1.67 sec.

People posting must be bad, it’s rangers did not get a 10% dps buff, they got alot more than 10%. Shortening LB2 by 50% means a straight up 50% dps increase, because you take less time to go through it.

RF wasn’t shorted by 50%. It went from 4 and a half to 2.5s. It was shortened by 44%.

And bear in mind that prior to this change, RF used to do just 93% the DPS of longbow’s autoattack.

Ranger longbow autoattack @ max range is .9/1 = 0.9 coeff/sec
Rapid Fire is 3.75/2.5 = 1.5 coeff/sec
Ratio = 1.67

Warrior GS autoattack is (.77+.7+.9)/2.5 = 0.948 coeff/sec
100 blades is 5.5/3.5 = 1.57 coeff/sec
Ratio = 1.66

Warrior rifle autoattack is .4/.96 = .417 coeff/sec
Volley is 3.0/2.5 = 1.2 coeff/sec
Ratio = 2.88

You really think RF’s extra DPS is out of line for a burst skill?

Also you’re forgetting the free grandmaster trait given to every range using signets, you don’t even need to trait for it, all signets now affect you too.

You mean the change that made signets work for rangers exactly like they’ve always worked for every profession except ranger? You’re trying to say that rangers deserved to have inferior signets compared to every other profession, and so bringing them up to par to everyone else is somehow doing rangers a favor?

Forestgreen.7981:

Also I said 50% damage increase on LB 2 skill specifically, not for the long bow in general. Note rangers got a straight up BUFF, and from what I saw no nerfs on a kitten thing to level the playing field.

RF does exactly the same damage as it did before. It’s just been compressed from 4.5 sec to 2.5 sec. That is, it’s DPS was increased 44%. It’s damage is the same as before.

As a weapon, if you assume longbow autoattack fills in the gaps between RF and Barrage whenever their cooldowns are up, then:

Before:
4.8 coeff / 2.75 sec every 30 sec (Barrage)
3.75 coeff / 4.5 sec every 10 sec (Rapid Fire)
0.9 coeff / 1 sec (autoattack)
= (4.8 + 3.75*3 + .9*13.75) = 28.425 coeff / 30 sec

After:
4.8 coeff / 2.25 sec every 30 sec
3.75 coeff / 2.5 sec every 10 sec
0.9 coeff / 1 sec
= (4.8 + 3.75*3 +.9*19.75) = 33.825 coeff/30 sec

33.825 / 28.425 = 1.19 = 19% damage buff for longbow

Solori.6025:

vincecontix.1264:

Yup the damage they can do from 1500 range is just silly. Also its way to easy for rangers to get there burst off, like seriously press 2 and watch things die +the short cd its not right. 1v1 is not the issue its in group setting with multiple rangers. Very easy to focus down target b4 they even reach the ranger.

Zerker thiefs are alot easier to deal with if they want to do any real damage they have to get in melee range. In alot of team fights there is so much cluster kitten aoe all over the place the thief really have to think and position himself well or its gg. The ranger just finds and nice play to camp spams auto and rf.

but..
The damage they do is the same as it was prepatch…

Just faster and easier to dodge.

Nothing has changed on the damage coefficient.

So now to the next question.
Are people upset because they have to pay attention to a class now?

I will clarify then, the increased dps output from a zerker lb ranger is to much. Esp when you consider the range and effort required from the ranger.

Did you know that meteor shower with blasting staff trait reaches 1380 range for some reason, and that meteor can deal 5-7k to my glassy warrior. And if i try to close gap i gotta run through a aoe that is huge and lasts long…..
So by that logic, nurf ele, nurf warrior, nurf thief, nurf nurf nurf

vincecontix.1264:

Solori.6025:

vincecontix.1264:

Yup the damage they can do from 1500 range is just silly. Also its way to easy for rangers to get there burst off, like seriously press 2 and watch things die +the short cd its not right. 1v1 is not the issue its in group setting with multiple rangers. Very easy to focus down target b4 they even reach the ranger.

Zerker thiefs are alot easier to deal with if they want to do any real damage they have to get in melee range. In alot of team fights there is so much cluster kitten aoe all over the place the thief really have to think and position himself well or its gg. The ranger just finds and nice play to camp spams auto and rf.

but..
The damage they do is the same as it was prepatch…

Just faster and easier to dodge.

Nothing has changed on the damage coefficient.

So now to the next question.
Are people upset because they have to pay attention to a class now?

I will clarify then, the increased dps output from a zerker lb ranger is to much. Esp when you consider the range and effort required from the ranger.

The dps hasn’t changed, it’s only faster now, nothing wrong with rapid fire or LB ranger.

It takes the same effort to play LB ranger than most other specs, the range is not even a problem when most classes have gap closers.

You just need to learn how to counter it, like we all had to learn how to counter thiefs/warriors/mesmers

WEXXES.2378:

I’m all right with the burst. While the damage potential was basically increased by 150% (extra time to fire extra arrows compared to old Rapid Fire), the actual damage it does… still the same.

What’s really annoying, and no amount of reflect bullcrap sorcery will ever beat, is its really low cooldown. It’s 10 seconds, 8 with the trait. Most longbow rangers will go secondary GS or S/D, both of which are used to create distance easily.

Rapid Fire needs to have it’s CD increased by at least 60%, to 16s untraited, 13s traited, lowering its downtime but keeping its burst.

Ok then Thief Backstab needs more than 4 second cooldown, Warrior F1 abilities more than 7 seconds CD, Mesmers clones for shatters need to be changed so they cant chain shatter… you get the point?

Prysin.8542:

Did you know that meteor shower with blasting staff trait reaches 1380 range for some reason, and that meteor can deal 5-7k to my glassy warrior. And if i try to close gap i gotta run through a aoe that is huge and lasts long…..
So by that logic, nurf ele, nurf warrior, nurf thief, nurf nurf nurf

read my signature please….you should play more pve.
and not even considering cooldowns.

Otaur.9268:

Ok then Thief Backstab needs more than 4 second cooldown, Warrior F1 abilities more than 7 seconds CD, Mesmers clones for shatters need to be changed so they cant chain shatter… you get the point?

Did you knew that the total damage from Rapid Fire is more than the Thief damage from C&D chained into a perfect Backstab? I think having a “4s” CD on Backstab is waranted to go with the 8s CD on Rapid Fire then.

sminkiottone.6972:

The dps hasn’t changed, it’s only faster now, nothing wrong with rapid fire or LB ranger.

—

Not sure if you understand what DPS means.

Otaur.9268:

Ok then Thief Backstab needs more than 4 second cooldown, Warrior F1 abilities more than 7 seconds CD, Mesmers clones for shatters need to be changed so they cant chain shatter… you get the point?

Sure, and ranger gets adrenaline mechanic to his every skill. Any other great ideas?

stof.9341:

Otaur.9268:

Ok then Thief Backstab needs more than 4 second cooldown, Warrior F1 abilities more than 7 seconds CD, Mesmers clones for shatters need to be changed so they cant chain shatter… you get the point?

Did you knew that the total damage from Rapid Fire is more than the Thief damage from C&D chained into a perfect Backstab? I think having a “4s” CD on Backstab is waranted to go with the 8s CD on Rapid Fire then.

False…
Thief C&D BS combo can do 12k instantly, whereas RF has 2.5 second cast time and can be dodged. Thief can spam 11111111 while stealthed until they hit, because being dodged/blocked does not reveal and prevent their burst.

@Wethospu: Adrenaline can be regained in under 7 seconds.

Otaur.9268:

False…
Thief C&D BS combo can do 12k instantly, whereas RF has 2.5 second cast time and can be dodged. Thief can spam 11111111 while stealthed until they hit, because being dodged/blocked does not reveal and prevent their burst.

C&D combo is WvW has 3.6 total skill coefficient. Rapide Fire has 3.75. Also, the longbow base damage is 5% higher than a dagger. Let’s also mention the fact that the C&D => Backstab combo power is gutted in sPvP : the total coefficient in this game mode drops to 3.1 due to a 33% damage nerf on C&D.

And lastly, the Ranger doesn’t need to get in melee range to deliver the damage which is a big part of the counterplay.

T raw.4658:

That much damage that fast from that range is game breaking.

Otaur.9268:

—
@Wethospu: Adrenaline can be regained in under 7 seconds.

The famous 6-6-6-6-6 build with 6 utilities?

And burst recharge can be reduced to only 7.75 seconds, not 7 seconds.

Wethospu.6437:

Otaur.9268:

—
@Wethospu: Adrenaline can be regained in under 7 seconds.

The famous 6-6-6-6-6 build with 6 utilities?

And burst recharge can be reduced to only 7.75 seconds, not 7 seconds.

I believe the famous Hambow is enough.

Yes, sure, if you use Earthshaker (with Burst Mastery, 10 adrenaline), swap weapon (5 adrenaline) and spam Dual Shot entire duration (12 adrenaline). And hope enemy doesn’t control, block, dodge, move or anything. And hits you a couple of times (3 adrenaline).

Then you are either stuck with hammer (worse adrenaline generation unless you hit 3 targets) or can’t weaponswap (misses 5 adrenaline) so only reliable way is to get hit 8-10 times in 7 seconds.

Unlike normal skills which will be up no matter what happens.

Solori.6025:

ummm..

….
Ghastly Claws-8 seconds
….

Almost every class has a burst move on a short cooldown.

Ghastly Claws:

Damage (8x): 968 (2.880)
Activation time: 2¼
Cooldown: 8s
Life Force: 12%
Range: 600

—

Rapid Fire:

Damage (10x): 1,320 (3.75)
10 Vulnerability: 10s
Activation time: 2½
Cooldown: 10s
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile (20% chance)
Range: 1200 (actually slightly longer)

Is this really a comparison you wanna make for your argument that Rapid Fire is balanced..?

Also remember, Rapid Fire requires no setup other than basics: Line of Sight, be in range. It requires no resources. It comes with 2 easy to use, instant cast, same range set ups in the form of a knockback and stealth, which also share animations with almost all the other longbow skills.

stof.9341:

Otaur.9268:

False…
Thief C&D BS combo can do 12k instantly, whereas RF has 2.5 second cast time and can be dodged. Thief can spam 11111111 while stealthed until they hit, because being dodged/blocked does not reveal and prevent their burst.

C&D combo is WvW has 3.6 total skill coefficient. Rapide Fire has 3.75. Also, the longbow base damage is 5% higher than a dagger. Let’s also mention the fact that the C&D => Backstab combo power is gutted in sPvP : the total coefficient in this game mode drops to 3.1 due to a 33% damage nerf on C&D.

And lastly, the Ranger doesn’t need to get in melee range to deliver the damage which is a big part of the counterplay.

How did u get 3.6? C&D is 1.5 in WvW and Backstab 2.4 thus the total skill coefficient is 3.9. This is higher than Rapid Fire. I haven’t even add in the damage from mug.

Likewise, thief doesn’t need to be in melee range to initiate and deliver the burst damage combo. You can pretty much chain C&D into steal into backstab for a 900 initiation range, 3.9 coefficient dmg output in a grand total of less than a second. How long is the cast time of rapid fire again? Isn’t this more OP?

Truth is, everyone is OP in their own ways. But when you glorify another class’ OPness and downplay your own, it becomes unworthy of a discusson.

Took my Ranger out for a burl last night – tbh, i think it’s a little too much. It’s like an AK-47 assault rifle.

Dunno, give it some time i guess – maybe I’m just used to the slow channel that we had before.

T raw.4658:

That much damage that fast from that range is game breaking.

That much damage from range was ALREADY POSSIBLE BEFORE. Suddenly, when it’s 1.5s faster, it magically becomes “game breaking.” Hilarious.

niconori.7235:

How did u get 3.6? C&D is 1.5 in WvW and Backstab 2.4 thus the total skill coefficient is 3.9. This is higher than Rapid Fire.

Right, sorry, stupid mistake. Still the Longbow has 5% more base damage than the Dagger. As a result, the 3.75 coefficient does 5% more damage which means it’s equivalent to a 3.9375 coefficient skill if it was used by a dagger weapon.

niconori.7235:

I haven’t even add in the damage from mug.

And I haven’t added the 5 stacks of vulnerability a Ranger gets as an opening attack , I haven’t counted either the damage the Ranger does with it’s first attack, say, a normal arrow first (0.9 coefficient) that autocrits Let’s not talk about the 10 stacks of vulnerability added by Rapid Fire itself and the 5 more from your own pet opening strike. Or your own pet damage either. And the very high chance that Fire and Air sigil will proc from the 10 attacks you do.

niconori.7235:

Likewise, thief doesn’t need to be in melee range to initiate and deliver the burst damage combo. You can pretty much chain C&D into steal into backstab for a 900 initiation range, 3.9 coefficient dmg output in a grand total of less than a second. How long is the cast time of rapid fire again? Isn’t this more OP?

21s cooldown at most for that combo. And you didn’t mention the small fact that the thief, once his combo is over will be all sad and on melee range of whatever he didn’t manage to kill, like a tanky target. And his friend. And his friend zerg.

You realise you’re not supposed to be able to reflect 100% of someones bursts, right?

You sound like those people who charge around the forums screaming that they can’t get enough condition removal to completely and perminantly cleanse everything a condi-necro throws at them… That’s kinda of the point… You aren’t meant to 100% negate your opponents attacks, just manage them well enough to kill them first.

sminkiottone.6972:

vincecontix.1264:

Solori.6025:

vincecontix.1264:

Yup the damage they can do from 1500 range is just silly. Also its way to easy for rangers to get there burst off, like seriously press 2 and watch things die +the short cd its not right. 1v1 is not the issue its in group setting with multiple rangers. Very easy to focus down target b4 they even reach the ranger.

Zerker thiefs are alot easier to deal with if they want to do any real damage they have to get in melee range. In alot of team fights there is so much cluster kitten aoe all over the place the thief really have to think and position himself well or its gg. The ranger just finds and nice play to camp spams auto and rf.

but..
The damage they do is the same as it was prepatch…

Just faster and easier to dodge.

Nothing has changed on the damage coefficient.

So now to the next question.
Are people upset because they have to pay attention to a class now?

I will clarify then, the increased dps output from a zerker lb ranger is to much. Esp when you consider the range and effort required from the ranger.

The dps hasn’t changed, it’s only faster now, nothing wrong with rapid fire or LB ranger.

It takes the same effort to play LB ranger than most other specs, the range is not even a problem when most classes have gap closers.

You just need to learn how to counter it, like we all had to learn how to counter thiefs/warriors/mesmers

I don’t know how it wasn’t clear, I was referring damage out put of the zerker range not a specific skill. LB zerker ranger takes almost no effort, perch yourself somewhere difficult for players to get you, then spam your skills. It allows bads to contribute far to much to a fight.

I’m laughing my kitten off right now at you people calling it OP. It’s at 2.5 seconds. Meaning any block, reflect, or projectile destroyer will PREVENT AT LEAST 80% OF THE BURST IF THE SKILL IS USED THE SECOND YOU SEE RF. Hell, just dodging twice does 60% of it. Face it, this is a l2p on the likes of the players. Especially since if RF is hitting that hard, the Ranger is nothing more than a glass cannon who will fold easily.

To clear up some basic misconceptions…

DPS = damage per second. That means if you do the same amount of damage in less time, your DPS increases. Rapid fire does the same damage as before, but now in almost half the time (44% faster). Therefore its DPS has increased.

As for whether power ranger overall is OP now or not, I think it’s still hard to tell. They generally lack stability and have limited condition removal unless they grab survival of the fittest (which means fewer points in skirmishing and therefore less damage).

Power rangers in tpvp right now feel like easier-to-play thieves. Both classes excel at joining a fight mid-battle and ending it quickly. But while the thief has to position himself well and port into melee for a quick burst (which takes time to set up and is places the thief at risk of getting 1-shot), the ranger can put out just as much damage from slightly over 1.5k range without any real positional or conditional requirements. The main issue with power longbow really just seems to be how easy it is to burst with, rather than how powerful the class is overall.

If we compare power rangers to fresh air ele, rapid fire does about the same damage as two air-attune + lightning strike combos, but the ele will take at least twice as long (5s CD on fresh air) to cycle through air twice and has less survivability/mobility. Then again, fresh air ele can chain multiple skills together to achieve a larger overall burst (e.g. triple-hit phoenix + lightning flash + air burst), but that comes at a much longer cooldown of 40s (32 if you trait cantrip reduction).

Fresh air ele and thief also arguably brings more utility to their teams than a power ranger. (Ele can bring aoe daze via comet, aoe healing via trident, blinds, and might stacking; Thief can bring shadow refuge, boon stealing, guaranteed interrupts via sleight of hand, and poison).

And yes, you can evade/block a rapid fire if you see it coming, but that’s true for every other class’s burst (including backstabs if you saw the thief enter stealth and you aren’t completely new to the game). On the other hand, rapid fire is basically immune to aegis and blind (which only block one arrow, so I guess a ~10% reduction), while blind/aegis completely negate single-hit burst skills.

Reflection is definitely a hard counter to rapid fire, but most reflection skills have much longer cooldowns so the ranger can always just use barrage while the reflection is up. That said, it’s really fun completely shutting down the crappier power rangers who don’t pay attention to reflect.

Dang so you all you guise are saying all you have to do is dodge/evade/reflect? wow didn’t know that was how one deals with projectiles in this game. Btw you can’t just do that though and expect to win against a lb ranger. If I see a block/reflect up I’m not gonna use Rapid Fire b/c I’m not dumb. That said if you don’t have one of those up and don’t have stability you’re still gonna eat alot of damage or be forced to use a stunbreak b/c I’m gonna go PBS into Rapid Fire, can’t dodge that unless you dodge the PBS in which case you have one less dodge to deal with Rapid Fire or other autos. And that can happen every 12 secs.

And meanwhile before and after that you will eat at least 2k autos. Not to mention if a ranger joins a fight and you don’t see it you’re gonna have a real bad time because all of a sudden you’re dealing with full zerk damage output coming from 1500 range.

I’d be fine with just a noticeable Rapid Fire “Skill Tell/Animation.” (Like what was done for the Warriors Pin Down Long Bow Skill.)

Just to make recognizing one Log Bow skill from the other Long Bow skills a little easier. Or possible.

I also feel it would be very reasonable to implement the same kind of “Skill Tell/Animation” for Point Blank Shot as well. This skill can dramatically change the pace of a fight, It would only be fair to open up a mild bit of counter play.

ResJudicator.7916:

To clear up some basic misconceptions…

DPS = damage per second. That means if you do the same amount of damage in less time, your DPS increases. Rapid fire does the same damage as before, but now in almost half the time (44% faster). Therefore its DPS has increased.

As for whether power ranger overall is OP now or not, I think it’s still hard to tell. They generally lack stability and have limited condition removal unless they grab survival of the fittest (which means fewer points in skirmishing and therefore less damage).

Power rangers in tpvp right now feel like easier-to-play thieves. Both classes excel at joining a fight mid-battle and ending it quickly. But while the thief has to position himself well and port into melee for a quick burst (which takes time to set up and is places the thief at risk of getting 1-shot), the ranger can put out just as much damage from slightly over 1.5k range without any real positional or conditional requirements. The main issue with power longbow really just seems to be how easy it is to burst with, rather than how powerful the class is overall.

If we compare power rangers to fresh air ele, rapid fire does about the same damage as two air-attune + lightning strike combos, but the ele will take at least twice as long (5s CD on fresh air) to cycle through air twice and has less survivability/mobility. Then again, fresh air ele can chain multiple skills together to achieve a larger overall burst (e.g. triple-hit phoenix + lightning flash + air burst), but that comes at a much longer cooldown of 40s (32 if you trait cantrip reduction).

Fresh air ele and thief also arguably brings more utility to their teams than a power ranger. (Ele can bring aoe daze via comet, aoe healing via trident, blinds, and might stacking; Thief can bring shadow refuge, boon stealing, guaranteed interrupts via sleight of hand, and poison).

And yes, you can evade/block a rapid fire if you see it coming, but that’s true for every other class’s burst (including backstabs if you saw the thief enter stealth and you aren’t completely new to the game). On the other hand, rapid fire is basically immune to aegis and blind (which only block one arrow, so I guess a ~10% reduction), while blind/aegis completely negate single-hit burst skills.

Reflection is definitely a hard counter to rapid fire, but most reflection skills have much longer cooldowns so the ranger can always just use barrage while the reflection is up. That said, it’s really fun completely shutting down the crappier power rangers who don’t pay attention to reflect.

Basically this

It’s going a bit far to say it’s OP (especially this early in the patch), but something feels off about a skill that is essentially a backstab without positional requirements with the added safety of 1500 range separating you from your target.

evilapprentice.6379:

ResJudicator.7916:

To clear up some basic misconceptions…

DPS = damage per second. That means if you do the same amount of damage in less time, your DPS increases. Rapid fire does the same damage as before, but now in almost half the time (44% faster). Therefore its DPS has increased.

As for whether power ranger overall is OP now or not, I think it’s still hard to tell. They generally lack stability and have limited condition removal unless they grab survival of the fittest (which means fewer points in skirmishing and therefore less damage).

Power rangers in tpvp right now feel like easier-to-play thieves. Both classes excel at joining a fight mid-battle and ending it quickly. But while the thief has to position himself well and port into melee for a quick burst (which takes time to set up and is places the thief at risk of getting 1-shot), the ranger can put out just as much damage from slightly over 1.5k range without any real positional or conditional requirements. The main issue with power longbow really just seems to be how easy it is to burst with, rather than how powerful the class is overall.

If we compare power rangers to fresh air ele, rapid fire does about the same damage as two air-attune + lightning strike combos, but the ele will take at least twice as long (5s CD on fresh air) to cycle through air twice and has less survivability/mobility. Then again, fresh air ele can chain multiple skills together to achieve a larger overall burst (e.g. triple-hit phoenix + lightning flash + air burst), but that comes at a much longer cooldown of 40s (32 if you trait cantrip reduction).

Fresh air ele and thief also arguably brings more utility to their teams than a power ranger. (Ele can bring aoe daze via comet, aoe healing via trident, blinds, and might stacking; Thief can bring shadow refuge, boon stealing, guaranteed interrupts via sleight of hand, and poison).

And yes, you can evade/block a rapid fire if you see it coming, but that’s true for every other class’s burst (including backstabs if you saw the thief enter stealth and you aren’t completely new to the game). On the other hand, rapid fire is basically immune to aegis and blind (which only block one arrow, so I guess a ~10% reduction), while blind/aegis completely negate single-hit burst skills.

Reflection is definitely a hard counter to rapid fire, but most reflection skills have much longer cooldowns so the ranger can always just use barrage while the reflection is up. That said, it’s really fun completely shutting down the crappier power rangers who don’t pay attention to reflect.

Basically this

It’s going a bit far to say it’s OP (especially this early in the patch), but something feels off about a skill that is essentially a backstab without positional requirements with the added safety of 1500 range separating you from your target.

It also has more weaknesses than the other burst moves, which evens it out. It would be OP IMO if it DIDN’T have those weaknesses. And they don’t want to nerf it considering that’s most of LB’s DPS right there, killing Rapid Fire kills the Longbow, something they do NOT want to do, since it’s basically the staple weapon for the Ranger.

I hardly consider it OP, annoying yes! Easy to play? Perhaps. OP? No. Rangers are what the name implys "Range"rs. They are supposed to be the sniper, the marksman, the master of ranged combat. Just be glad that there are now an abundance of bad Rangers in WvW. In a 1v1 it still requires some degree of skill to play and you can’t just spam rapid fire to your heart’s content.

For Rapid Fire to do ridiculous amounts of damage you pretty much have to go 6/6/x/x/x, a fair trade off for having nonexistent condition removal and being fairly squishy.

Having a group of berserker rangers is just a gimmick comp. A coordinated and diverse group isn’t going to lose against that group. Heck, even a group of pugs that know what they are doing individually can dispatch of them fairly easily. In a group setting, just have two thieves focus the ranger or two warriors. Or just condi bomb the ranger. The ranger will be helpless. If a ranger has to go melee just to defend itself, you have just prevented the Ranger from getting off alot of their DPS.

This is also not mentioning the fact that if you blind a ranger, use reflect, close the gap, dodge, block, interrupt, etc that you have just prevented yourself from eating an 8-10K rapid fire. You can even abuse terrain in WvW. I feel like with this new patch it has actually given Rangers a role in WvW. I swear to you people will fall off the LB hype train after a few weeks. You won’t see any competitive GvG guild running 5 rangers in a 20v20.

@RyuDragnier-9476

To begin, I’m not asking anyone to nerf RF. Like I said, the jury is still out, but it’s undeniable that the skill feels a bit off at the moment.

Concerning weaknesses, are you talking spec or skill? Assuming you are talking About the skill, I’m not sure what weaknesses you consider “counters” a 1500 range circle the skill can be safely used from, but I’m not convinced. It severely reduces the effectiveness of aegis and blind (at the cost of being weak to retal), it has no positional requirements, can be traited to pierce (though I will admit I have no idea how feasible taking that trait is in a power setup). Most importantly, before, during and after the skill you are (potentially) 1500 range Away – a range no other class can easily match, making you Almost completely safe from counterattack. This extreme range Also has the benefit of mitigating the costs of QZ, since by the time your target gets to you (assuming they survived), the effect will be over or nearly over. Possible reflected/destroyed shots is a tiny price to pay for this kind of on demand power – especially so when you consider missile reflect/destroy isn’t going to be available every 8 seconds.

Again, this isn’t me asking for it to be nerfed or claiming it’s OP, but it most certainly requires close monitoring for the next few weeks.

Plankie.6287:

Solori.6025:

ummm..

….
Ghastly Claws-8 seconds
….

Almost every class has a burst move on a short cooldown.

Ghastly Claws:

Damage (8x): 968 (2.880)
Activation time: 2¼
Cooldown: 8s
Life Force: 12%
Range: 600

—

Rapid Fire:

Damage (10x): 1,320 (3.75)
10 Vulnerability: 10s
Activation time: 2½
Cooldown: 10s
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile (20% chance)
Range: 1200 (actually slightly longer)

Is this really a comparison you wanna make for your argument that Rapid Fire is balanced..?

Ghastly Claws:
Increased damage of this skill by 10%.

The tooltip is actually

Damage (8x): 1,040
Activation time: 2¼
Cooldown: 8s
Life Force: 12%
Range: 600

a full channel of this attack on a squishy does pretty much the same numbers as a RF, it just cant be reflected

Wolf.5816:

I’d be fine with just a noticeable Rapid Fire “Skill Tell/Animation.” (Like what was done for the Warriors Pin Down Long Bow Skill.)

Just to make recognizing one Log Bow skill from the other Long Bow skills a little easier. Or possible.

I also feel it would be very reasonable to implement the same kind of “Skill Tell/Animation” for Point Blank Shot as well. This skill can dramatically change the pace of a fight, It would only be fair to open up a mild bit of counter play.

Khm… Rapid Fire has animation already… it’s many arrows flying…should it be pink and glow in night ?

As for PBS – if you want to give it more distinct animation (currently it’s longer cast and right foot making step foward) then give it some more utility. Overcharged Shot doesn’t have any animation at all tbh and people don’t complain too much.

Solori.6025:

WEXXES.2378:

I’m all right with the burst. While the damage potential was basically increased by 150% (extra time to fire extra arrows compared to old Rapid Fire), the actual damage it does… still the same.

What’s really annoying, and no amount of reflect bullcrap sorcery will ever beat, is its really low cooldown. It’s 10 seconds, 8 with the trait. Most longbow rangers will go secondary GS or S/D, both of which are used to create distance easily.

Rapid Fire needs to have it’s CD increased by at least 60%, to 16s untraited, 13s traited, lowering its downtime but keeping its burst.

ummm..

Mind Wrack-11 sec
blurred frenzy-12 sec
Eviscerate-10 seconds
Arcing slice-10 seconds
volley-10seconds
Backstab- LOL
unload- LEL
Ghastly Claws-8 seconds
Life Blast- auto
Whirling wrath-10seconds

Elementalist-9 seconds

Almost every class has a burst move on a short cooldown.

The problem is ranged projectiles floating the extra 200u
and people not dodgeing

Also the damage from this attack stayed the same..now you can dodge the entire thing.

Frenzy, Claws and Life Blast are burst?

Rym.1469:

Wolf.5816:

I’d be fine with just a noticeable Rapid Fire “Skill Tell/Animation.” (Like what was done for the Warriors Pin Down Long Bow Skill.)

Just to make recognizing one Log Bow skill from the other Long Bow skills a little easier. Or possible.

I also feel it would be very reasonable to implement the same kind of “Skill Tell/Animation” for Point Blank Shot as well. This skill can dramatically change the pace of a fight, It would only be fair to open up a mild bit of counter play.

Khm… Rapid Fire has animation already… it’s many arrows flying…should it be pink and glow in night ?

As for PBS – if you want to give it more distinct animation (currently it’s longer cast and right foot making step foward) then give it some more utility. Overcharged Shot doesn’t have any animation at all tbh and people don’t complain too much.

I think a better animation for both would be great.

Though overcharged shot already has a drawback to it..

Rym.1469:

Khm… Rapid Fire has animation already… it’s many arrows flying…should it be pink and glow in night ?

That’s not an animation, that’s an attack being already done.

While I do like the buff to rapid fire, I will comparing it to other skills isn’t exactly fair. It does get annoying if you ever do get focused by 2 LB rangers. Most of those other bursts you see and compare to rapid fire are melee ranged, Eviscerate has a tell and a obvious animation, Shatter mesmers need to have clones around you for Mind Wrack, and blurred frenzy is melee range as well, backstab is melee and needs to hit your back to do double damage.. 1500 Range with Read the winds means you’re not going to side step all the arrows cause of bad tracking. You’re doing the same damage as a melee zerker build but without much of the risk of being in the fray and getting hit. THe only thing that will ruin your day is someone gets close is a condi build. If it’s another melee character you have chance to burst them still cause GS 5 + Moment of Clarity -> Maul can go over 10k damage easy, and GS4 parry hits pretty hard too, about 4k. Which is no problem to deal with. My suggestion for everyone is to exploit LoS and use projectile absorption/Reflections (Sorry necro), from skills or traits.

to all the ppl saying longbow 2 is op, pls, l2dodge, it requires u one single friggin dodge to avoid way more than 50% of the skill

use the friggin terrain, u can LoS and the ranger cant do a single thing about it if he stays on longbow, if he gets closer, he looses dmg, if he starts casting smth on longbow, go behind him, breaks the silly cast

use ur silly abilitys, blocks or evades or whatever. every proffession besides necro has these, i will just feel bad for the necros as they r rly bad at range

as someone who plays every proffession and every meta , evenmaking my own builds, i can tell ya, power rangers (ye i said that, deal w it now) r way too vulnerable if specced for longbow stuff.

and about the low risk thing, ye, but how much skill does it take to land a totally basic 900 range cnd+ backstab combo, how much skill does it take to play hambow or d/p tiff, or hell even d/d celestial ele is faceroll…

if you think about it , in the year and half i’ve played gw2 , long time vetern of gw1.

has anyone ever made a Tactical Strategy to counter a Ranged Fight as a group thinking about that will solved all the problems you think you have.
and i also i think its about time all the full zerk players got some toughness and Vit into the builds they use , i can’t even get a decent WvW player doing to 60% hp using a rapid fire and i run 50% pvt, cav+ zerks 6,0,2,6,0 on my ranger, i can survive Reflects but i’ll only have 40% hp left over if i don’t cancel/ stop attacking.

just adding a reflect wall stood at a distance will stop a Lb’s Assault in its tracks , he will be forced to swap weapons.