Guild Wars 2

This is the most imbalanced option available to any profession that can build it in PvP. Why? Because several classes have a completely 1v1 unkillable bunker build that can sit on a point indefinitely, and if a single team has TWO of them sitting on two cap points then it is an autowin for that team. There is simply NO public sPvP team who will have enough brains to be able to uproot them. It’s autowin and therefore massively imbalanced.

Engineer is probably the worst.

Bunkers are the #1 imbalance in PvP.

It takes no skill to be a bunker sitting on a point forever. Just pick a good bunker build and sit indefinitely.

How do you eliminate them? Nerf their defense OR increase damage.

That’s pretty broad. How do you suggest going about equally nerfing all defensive capacity for every profession?

Or if you simply think all damage should be increased, are you willing to accept the 1-shot gameplay that will come with that? Lich form autoattack can already 1-shot some builds, 100-0 in a single auto (+procs). Should it do more damage?

NevirSayDie.6235:

That’s pretty broad. How do you suggest going about equally nerfing all defensive capacity for every profession?

Or if you simply think all damage should be increased, are you willing to accept the 1-shot gameplay that will come with that? Lich form autoattack can already 1-shot some builds, 100-0 in a single auto (+procs). Should it do more damage?

I don’t think the OP understands what he/she is saying.

Defense and healing in combination should never be so high that it negates damage by so much that a bunker can never die 1v1.

Form.8741:

Defense and healing in combination should never be so high that it negates damage by so much that a bunker can never die 1v1.

bring along a friend or two. this is a team game.

two people build for good sustained burst can quickly down a lone bunker.

NevirSayDie.6235:

That’s pretty broad. How do you suggest going about equally nerfing all defensive capacity for every profession?

Or if you simply think all damage should be increased, are you willing to accept the 1-shot gameplay that will come with that? Lich form autoattack can already 1-shot some builds, 100-0 in a single auto (+procs). Should it do more damage?

While I don’t agree with the op that simply isn’t true. Lich form with procs most certainly can’t hit for 10k. If you think it can I invite you to give me video proof.

25 stacks of might, bloodlust, guard stacks, etc. etc. lich form can 1 shot with full zerk lol

zapv.8051:

While I don’t agree with the op that simply isn’t true. Lich form with procs most certainly can’t hit for 10k. If you think it can I invite you to give me video proof.

shadowpass.4236:

25 stacks of might, bloodlust, guard stacks, etc. etc. lich form can 1 shot with full zerk lol

Not necessary. Because lich form triples base power, it can proc fire and air sigils for significantly more than normal. Combined with the 4-6k damage from the autoattack, this is sometimes enough to bring the target below 50% health, proccing a 4-7k spinal shivers to finish them off.

The times I’ve seen this have been in PvP vs. standard zerker thief PvP builds. So about 14-15k health. Even with all that, power necro is not even strong enough at tPvP to be used by most teams—but the point is, there’s already quite a bit of damage flying around.

I totally agree. Force everyone to be full glass. Much better that way

No, several professions can make a bunker won’t die to TWO people for a very long time (minutes).

Bunkers are OP in PvP and need to be removed. They serve no purpose except to make complete imbalance and require NO skill whatsoever to autowin. If I were to use a bunk engineer and squat on a single point, I would win at least 7 out of every 10 games without doing ANYTHING else.

Form.8741:

They serve no purpose except to make complete imbalance and require NO skill whatsoever to autowin.

Keep telling yourself that, if it makes you sleep better at night.
And ofc, what you play is all skill-dependent and you had to train so hard to get to where you are. Right right. :P

The problem lies in the game format, all PvP maps are about capping and holding points.
GW1 had more diversity.

NevirSayDie.6235:

zapv.8051:

While I don’t agree with the op that simply isn’t true. Lich form with procs most certainly can’t hit for 10k. If you think it can I invite you to give me video proof.

shadowpass.4236:

25 stacks of might, bloodlust, guard stacks, etc. etc. lich form can 1 shot with full zerk lol

Not necessary. Because lich form triples base power, it can proc fire and air sigils for significantly more than normal. Combined with the 4-6k damage from the autoattack, this is sometimes enough to bring the target below 50% health, proccing a 4-7k spinal shivers to finish them off.

The times I’ve seen this have been in PvP vs. standard zerker thief PvP builds. So about 14-15k health. Even with all that, power necro is not even strong enough at tPvP to be used by most teams—but the point is, there’s already quite a bit of damage flying around.

So you have to crit, two sigils have to proc and then a trait has to proc and they have to have 3 boons. I guess I can believe it has happened, but it isn’t like one shots everywhere. Certainly not something someone casually does every game.

Edit: did some quick math, assuming your statements are correct and you need both sigils to proc, and you where full zerkers, it would happen 21% of the time. That is quite a bit higher than expected, but still wouldn’t happen often.

Just to point out, back at launch there werent nearly as many bunkers.

You know why they become popular? Because of insta-gib builds from professions like Thief and Mesmer, that didnt need any defense and could rely on other abilities to survive (stealth/teleport/clone).
And would blow anyone up that wasnt a bunker.

Anyone who complained about absurd burst was simply met with “l2build defensively”. And they did.
So the stupid burst-builds that still exist today are atleast complicit in the proliferation of Bunkers.

Hi OP. You have no idea how bunkers work or what they are. I’m sorry you couldn’t roll your face on the keyboard and instagib a bunker.
Lol bunker engi is imba. Have you seen bunker guard? Or even war?

Stack defense = no skill
Stack offense = skill

Just making sure I got this right.

zapv.8051:

Edit: did some quick math, assuming your statements are correct and you need both sigils to proc, and you where full zerkers, it would happen 21% of the time. That is quite a bit higher than expected, but still wouldn’t happen often.

I wasn’t really trying to make a statement about power necro. As I said, they’re not even really used in tPvP teams. The point is that there’s plenty of damage available, and a straight damage buff across the board would lead to a lot more stuff like that.

I’m not positive you’d need both sigils to proc. I think you could do it with just auto+sigil of air+spinal shivers, but it’s hard to say. I’m talking about PvP builds here, so zerker’s amulet. That’s significantly less damage “full zerkers” ascended or even exotic in PvE gear terms, but it should be enough to instakill a 15k build with base toughness fairly regularly.

Also very effective vs. bunkers.

Form.8741:

Defense and healing in combination should never be so high that it negates damage by so much that a bunker can never die 1v1.

It isn’t. Mater of fact, it isn’t even close. There are one of three thing going on here. Either you being dishonest and over exaggerating, your running a terrible build for damage output, or your not a very skilled player yet.

Form.8741:

No, several professions can make a bunker won’t die to TWO people for a very long time (minutes).

You seem a bit confused here. You assume because you and the player of your choice cannot kill another player in under 60s, that the rest of us have this problem. That is not the case. The problem is, instead of asking for advice, your making a sturdy complaint based on limited experience as if you demand Anet to change the game to compensate for where you may or may not lack.

Form.8741:

Bunkers are OP in PvP and need to be removed. They serve no purpose except to make complete imbalance and require NO skill whatsoever to autowin. If I were to use a bunk engineer and squat on a single point, I would win at least 7 out of every 10 games without doing ANYTHING else.

Not only are they not OP. They do serve a purpose. As well, they require quit a bit of skill.

As to your claim about yourself on a bunker engineer. I challenge you to prove it. I will play the profession of your choice. You make your bunker engineer. We will fight. We will record it. We will post the video here. I have played many hours on each profession, and my experience contradicts yours. I am not suggesting bunkers are not hard to kill. But they are no where near impossible.

Damage dealt is greater than any bunker and its obviously the case or nobody would die, but I do think a team of bunkers is better than a team of all zerkers.

Its just the way the mode is designed… to SURVIVE on a node. So builds that survive are probably pretty important whether its balanced or not I dont have an opinion.

My corruptionmancer does pretty well against bunkers, probably moreso than against most other types of set ups.

If necros got the sustain buffs they ask for then perhaps they could bring balance to the force. Errr, meta.

Terrahero.9358:

Just to point out, back at launch there werent nearly as many bunkers.

You know why they become popular? Because of insta-gib builds from professions like Thief and Mesmer, that didnt need any defense and could rely on other abilities to survive (stealth/teleport/clone).
And would blow anyone up that wasnt a bunker.

Anyone who complained about absurd burst was simply met with “l2build defensively”. And they did.
So the stupid burst-builds that still exist today are atleast complicit in the proliferation of Bunkers.

Excellent point
However, I dont think the extremes are still as bad (not including Lich Form, which needs a nerf and theives keeping other zerkers out of the meta is also still a problem)
More problematic are rune sets and sigils that highly favor certain proff’s (strength) . These proffs are then able to build as tanky as they want while benefiting from 25 might stacks and guaranteed crits. Its almost as bad as the insta gib thief/mesmer meta.

Those ‘bunkers’ also can’t put out enough dps to kill you unless you are glass and make.mistakes.

Terrahero.9358:

Just to point out, back at launch there werent nearly as many bunkers.

You know why they become popular? Because of insta-gib builds from professions like Thief and Mesmer, that didnt need any defense and could rely on other abilities to survive (stealth/teleport/clone).
And would blow anyone up that wasnt a bunker.

Anyone who complained about absurd burst was simply met with “l2build defensively”. And they did.
So the stupid burst-builds that still exist today are atleast complicit in the proliferation of Bunkers.

Bingo.

And as pointed out further down, building defensively isn’t any more inherently without skill than it is to build to one shot anyone that isn’t a bunker.

Good for the goose, good for the gander.

Now, if you wanted both extremes brought in simultaneously, people might be persuaded to listen to any arguments you actually bother to bring forth without them being automatically dismissed as ludicrous.

It’s awesome to see this kind of tread.

How do I say, spvp/tpvp ain’t about killing enemy team 1v1 or ganking ennemy team. It’s all about point. You’ve got issue with a bunker? Move him out of the tag zone. Every profession in this game can perform that. Like said before, it’s just another learn to build/play issue.

i mostly play glass cannons (most of which don’t even have poison) and i never really have a problem with bunkers.

bunkers are mostly an issue for hybrid builds with ok survival and ok damage,
ok damage certainly won’t bust any bunkers.

also, play a class with access to poison spam, ranger, thief, engi etc.
bunkers crumble under poison.

OP has a point although it’s a bit of a broad issue.

To be more specific, I think that, for example, the amount of Regeneration and _Protection available to many of the bunker-builds is far, far too abundant.

I mean bunker Rangers can achieve something like 50+% uptime of both these Boon, combined with lots and lots of Evades. PU Mesmers achieve a similar uptime of these two boons, albeit they are less common in sPvP.

Engineers also have a very high Protection uptime, thanks to their auto-procc and Guardians are basically rolling in all Boons all of the time, just like Elementalists.

The abundance of Boons is fundamentally broken. A 30% damage reduction is an extremely powerful boon. Having it auto-applied every few seconds is just a broken mechanic. No amount of boon removal will ever be able to keep up with the rate at which boons are applied, especially not in group-fights where many boons are shared.

Fix boon spam and we get a step closer to a better meta.

High uptime on Protection… As compared to say… perma-Fury?

What does that have to do with anything? Is Burst a problem? No! Do many builds run perma-Fury? No! So who cares?

And afterwards, remove all burst, and then all conditions, and then all … umm… what do we do after we have removed most subroles, actually?

Dee Jay.2460:

What does that have to do with anything? Is Burst a problem? No! Do many builds run perma-Fury? No! So who cares?

Wow, maybe play more than your duelling tPvP?

Dee Jay.2460:

What does that have to do with anything? Is Burst a problem? No! Do many builds run perma-Fury? No! So who cares?

((Looks at crit mag %-to-Ferocity))

I dunno know how you’re reading the direction the wind is blowing, but that stupid metal chicken-thing on top of my barn says those Devs (you know, the ones who can pull summaries of how matches are playing out in terms of circles being flipped vs. being captured once and held by a bunker undefeated ’til game over…) seem a lot more concerned about reining in Burst than they do about knocking the legs out from under Bunkers.

People aren’t running perma-fury now? What game have I been playing cause just about everyone has fury. SOR, Thrill of the crime, furious retaliation, zephyr’s boon + arcane fury, focused mind, phantasmal fury, furious demise. Fury comes out of many builds like it’s candy. Fury is what keeps many builds viable it’s more important to many of the games current builds then protection is.

Form.8741:

No, several professions can make a bunker won’t die to TWO people for a very long time (minutes).

Bunkers are OP in PvP and need to be removed. They serve no purpose except to make complete imbalance and require NO skill whatsoever to autowin. If I were to use a bunk engineer and squat on a single point, I would win at least 7 out of every 10 games without doing ANYTHING else.

This sounds like a learn to play issue

Bunkers rock!

U mad bro?

This thread can be TLDRed into:
“Hey i use scissors and i dont like how brokenly strong rock is, especially when my teammates aint playing as a team.”
The amount of leaps in logic should earn him a gold on the “mental gymnastics” event.

BTW, for those saying guard prot from hammer is op, think a bit about the tools a mesmer sword has~ Totally not saying its a hard counter.

Form.8741:

No, several professions can make a bunker won’t die to TWO people for a very long time (minutes).

Bunkers are OP in PvP and need to be removed. They serve no purpose except to make complete imbalance and require NO skill whatsoever to autowin. If I were to use a bunk engineer and squat on a single point, I would win at least 7 out of every 10 games without doing ANYTHING else.

sounds like you’re a thief player that got wrecked by a condi bunker engineer.

arkealia.2713:

The problem lies in the game format, all PvP maps are about capping and holding points.
GW1 had more diversity.

To be honest, this is exactly why I dislike sPvP right now. It’s all capture mode, and there is no real other option for it. Add in some deathmatches, some of the point gain like for Crab Toss (meaning basically a “king of the moutain” type thing), a different capture mode to where you have a singular HQ, and losing it loses the match (like with that one sPvP map). Mix it up, stop making it capture all the kitten time, it’s boring as hell!