[Attacks missed because of blind, and against blocked and invulnerable enemies should still reveal the thief. ]
There is a problem with this statement.
If a thief trait’s stealth, then each stealth skill they have will only stealth them for 3-4 seconds MAX, with shadow refuge offering them a longer stealth once every 60 seconds.
there are 3 total blocking weapon skills that last 2 seconds, 2 on a Mesmer and 1 on an engineer.
all of the utility skills that block last a minimum of 4 seconds
aegis " which blocks" lasts 20 seconds
blinds start at 3 seconds and go up.
the only invulnerable skill that might not last 3 seconds is the mezmer distortion.
The desire for a thief to lose stealth and gain revealed when they are blocked/miss/hit an invuln/blinded, is EXTEMELY not well thought out. It would degrade most of the use of stealth, a thief could never land a backstab.
Most thief stealth comes from 2 things, either they cloak and daggered someone,in which case you have already messed up since THAT IS THE SKILL YOU BLOCK!!!.
Or the thief used a pistol offhand to burn 9 out of their 12 total initiative to gain stealth and dash at you, AND YOU DID NOT HIT THEM WITH A STUN OR DAZE WHEN THEY DID THE EASY TELL OF BLINDING POWDER FIRST.
Look at your suggestion. It is an attempt to punish the thief for playing correctly.
You are trying to reward the warrior/ell/mezmer/guardian/ whoever, WHO HAS ALREADY MESSED UP BY LETTING THE THIEF STEALTH IN THE FIRST PLACE.
sorry for the caps.
If your playing d/p thief this shouldn’t be a problem you have 4 secs when you do black powder if your going into stealth at the earliest time and running out of iniative that would be poor resource management.You have a good amount of advantages in stealth one of them being mind games.In your scenario if they throw out there block or dodge roll simply stack a bit more stealth to wait it out you have that option.
If your playing s/d you have so many evades plus stealth to mitigate damage.Against a necro who has a reallyyy bad line of sight problem that no one notices yet you can hug them saving your dodges only for the big animations and switching to Sb for staff to have dodge on demand with sb3 and your own dodge bar.People play this spec so bad sometimes by spamming 3.
For example, revealed could be tied to the damage done with the strike that reveals the thief, with minimum and a maximum.
For example, you give them a minimum of 2 seconds, and a maximum of 5.
That way, weak strikes that deal little damage, like a glancing strike or missed attack, would reveal the thief shorter, and stronger critical strikes that hit for max damage with their stronger skills would reveal the thief longer.
That’ll autobalance damage vs stealth. The more damage you do, the less you can depend on stealth for survivavility. The more successful the thief is at striking, the more skilled they also have to be at staying alive while revealed.
SUGGEST-A-TRON says:
PAY—ONCE—UNLOCKS—ARE—ALWAYS—BETTER.
No exceptions!
Guys. With current d/d, d/p stealth meta thef is gonna do 31% less dmg after patch (to get as much as now he’ll need to go 30 in deadly arts). So chill and watch for backstabs for 5k dmg ^^.
Try 24k-30k backstab, 18k-23k heartseeker, Perma-Stealth-Nothing New ?)
Guys guys I finally figured it out!!!
He’s lvl 1 and wears no armor in WvW!
All thief players in the thief guild hits for those damages; that’s what i was referring to.
Not I
Like they said, “it only take 2 buttons to play thief class; 1 for stealth, the other for spam”
’That’s it in a nutshell’
I have never been hit by ANYTHING for that much, nor have I hit anything that high, not even an up-leveled light armor character. I have however been hit by a 15k churning earth before and a 15k killshot. Never a backstab.
As an almost full glass build, with 25 Bloodlust stacks, 5 Applied Strength stacks, and 25 might from guardians empowering (which probably brings me to around 4,000 total Attack rating), I can hit about 12k-15k on a tower claimer NPC in WvW depending on how much vulnerability my guild’s necro puts on him. Take away the 25 stacks of might and I hit about 9k backstab on the claimer.
Those numbers you are supplying are simply absurd ESPECIALLY if you’re referring to solo roaming. There is absolutely no way they get those kind of hits, and not even close without support from empower/vulnerability from teammates.
You’re either making it up, or the people you talk to in your guild are making it up to upset you.
Might stacking Signet thieves easily hit 10k~12k Backstabs against glassy elementalists in PvP. It should be more broken in WvW.
Churning Earth has 3.25s casting time. Kill Shot has 1.75s casting time. Backstab has .25s casting time. All skills deal massive damage but only backstab can be used repeatedly and accurately in a short span of time.
Try 24k-30k backstab, 18k-23k heartseeker, Perma-Stealth-Nothing New ?)
Guys guys I finally figured it out!!!
He’s lvl 1 and wears no armor in WvW!
All thief players in the thief guild hits for those damages; that’s what i was referring to.
Not I
Like they said, “it only take 2 buttons to play thief class; 1 for stealth, the other for spam”
’That’s it in a nutshell’
I have never been hit by ANYTHING for that much, nor have I hit anything that high, not even an up-leveled light armor character. I have however been hit by a 15k churning earth before and a 15k killshot. Never a backstab.
As an almost full glass build, with 25 Bloodlust stacks, 5 Applied Strength stacks, and 25 might from guardians empowering (which probably brings me to around 4,000 total Attack rating), I can hit about 12k-15k on a tower claimer NPC in WvW depending on how much vulnerability my guild’s necro puts on him. Take away the 25 stacks of might and I hit about 9k backstab on the claimer.
Those numbers you are supplying are simply absurd ESPECIALLY if you’re referring to solo roaming. There is absolutely no way they get those kind of hits, and not even close without support from empower/vulnerability from teammates.
You’re either making it up, or the people you talk to in your guild are making it up to upset you.
Might stacking Signet thieves easily hit 10k~12k Backstabs against glassy elementalists in PvP. It should be more broken in WvW.
Churning Earth has 3.25s casting time. Kill Shot has 1.75s casting time. Backstab has .25s casting time. All skills deal massive damage but only backstab can be used repeatedly and accurately in a short span of time.
Kill Shot long range attack every 6 sec,Warrior dont need 5x signet on masive DMG, Warrior has 18.5k HP and heavy armor + surv. abilities like a endurance pain.
Backstab melle range, THief must use all signet on might stack on same DMG like Kill Shot, Thief has 10.5k HP and zero survival abilities with 5x signet.
Shortbow 3 is the only reliable way to dodge attacks on land. I tried to time dodge with sword is just horrible. Dagger a little better but still not quite reliable. If they nerf shortbow 3 then wow. Then they seriously need to give them heavy armor and 18k hp.
Its class mechanics its just not balanced in any way or shape if they cant dodge/stealth.
Their quite easy to beat in pvp at least as necromancer.
If its broken in wvw anet dosent give a flying kitten about.
Infact wvw was never meant to be balanced to begin with.
When they balance classes around spvp they will be somewhat balanced everywhere.
Kill Shot long range attack every 6 sec,Warrior dont need 5x signet on masive DMG, Warrior has 18.5k HP and heavy armor + surv. abilities like a endurance pain.
Backstab melle range, THief must use all signet on might stack on same DMG like Kill Shot, Thief has 10.5k HP and zero survival abilities with 5x signet.
Backstab
Damage Front damage: 403 (1.2)?
Damage Back damage: 806 (2.4)?
Your logic is really wrong
So is yours apparently. You might get 6 seconds off Killshot’s CD if you trait fully into Discipline. It’s 9 without.
All the other things you mentioned are utilities that can be used by any build. Very few run Rifle to begin with (I’m likely one of the few). You need to build for KS to be even half effective.
Also it roots you for almost 2 seconds. Completely exposed and vulnerable. Doing any other action breaks it. Which, also puts it on cooldown.
Also you making it seem like Warriors spam Killshot every time its off cooldown is only if they have the adrenaline for it too.
It’s MUCH easier to land a Backstab than a Killshot ever will be and its much easier to spam it due to only worrying about Initiative. Also KS is much easier to dodge too. I’m not even counting you being able to stealth for Backstab either.
Kill Shot long range attack every 6 sec,Warrior dont need 5x signet on masive DMG, Warrior has 18.5k HP and heavy armor + surv. abilities like a endurance pain.
Backstab melle range, THief must use all signet on might stack on same DMG like Kill Shot, Thief has 10.5k HP and zero survival abilities with 5x signet.
Backstab
Damage Front damage: 403 (1.2)?
Damage Back damage: 806 (2.4)?
Your logic is really wrong
So is yours apparently. You might get 6 seconds off Killshot’s CD if you trait fully into Discipline. It’s 9 without.
All the other things you mentioned are utilities that can be used by any build. Very few run Rifle to begin with (I’m likely one of the few). You need to build for KS to be even half effective.
Also it roots you for almost 2 seconds. Completely exposed and vulnerable. Doing any other action breaks it. Which, also puts it on cooldown.
Also you making it seem like Warriors spam Killshot every time its off cooldown is only if they have the adrenaline for it too.
It’s MUCH easier to land a Backstab than a Killshot ever will be and its much easier to spam it due to only worrying about Initiative. Also KS is much easier to dodge too. I’m not even counting you being able to stealth for Backstab either.
“easier to spam it due to only worrying about Initiative”
This is really funny passage.
Back Stab “cost” 6 initiative when you use CaD = 6 sec CD, or 9 initiative ( Black powder + HS) With trait 7 initiative = 9/7sec CD. Or must waste utility slot spell (Blinding powder, Shadow refuge or Hide in Shadow)
Tell me what is easier ? Click F1 every 6 sec on long range hight DMG spell or go on close range use abilitiest that make stealth an hit enemy behind on full DMG potencial ?
BTW i hit 95% Kill Shot(15-22kDMG vs low armor class Thief and Ele) with me Warrior because i use frenzy,bolaso.
Kill Shot long range attack every 6 sec,Warrior dont need 5x signet on masive DMG, Warrior has 18.5k HP and heavy armor + surv. abilities like a endurance pain.
Backstab melle range, THief must use all signet on might stack on same DMG like Kill Shot, Thief has 10.5k HP and zero survival abilities with 5x signet.
Backstab
Damage Front damage: 403 (1.2)?
Damage Back damage: 806 (2.4)?
Your logic is really wrong
So is yours apparently. You might get 6 seconds off Killshot’s CD if you trait fully into Discipline. It’s 9 without.
All the other things you mentioned are utilities that can be used by any build. Very few run Rifle to begin with (I’m likely one of the few). You need to build for KS to be even half effective.
Also it roots you for almost 2 seconds. Completely exposed and vulnerable. Doing any other action breaks it. Which, also puts it on cooldown.
Also you making it seem like Warriors spam Killshot every time its off cooldown is only if they have the adrenaline for it too.
It’s MUCH easier to land a Backstab than a Killshot ever will be and its much easier to spam it due to only worrying about Initiative. Also KS is much easier to dodge too. I’m not even counting you being able to stealth for Backstab either.
Exactly what I was trying to point out. And you don’t even need to be a signet thief to deal massive Backstab damage.
BTW if you’re having problems killing warriors as a thief, maybe you should rethink how you play your class. Thief is one of the few classes that have a big advantage against warriors unless they run.
And what Logic is wrong? Backstab’s logic is wrong. It’s called Backstab because you need to hit your target from the back to deal 2x damage but apparently hitting them from the sides will also net you 2x damage.
“easier to spam it due to only worrying about Initiative”
This is really funny passage.
Back Stab “cost” 6 initiative when you use CaD = 6 sec CD, or 9 initiative ( Black powder + HS) With trait 7 initiative = 9/7sec CD. Or must waste utility slot spell (Blinding powder, Shadow refuge or Hide in Shadow)
Tell me what is easier ? Click F1 every 6 sec on long range hight DMG spell or go on close range use abilitiest that make stealth an hit enemy behind on full DMG potencial ?
BTW i hit 95% Kill Shot(15-22kDMG vs low armor class Thief and Ele) with me Warrior because i use frenzy,bolaso.
You make it sound like Thieves aren’t regenerating Initiative whilst they stealth or move. Please.
Plus, you can easily sit and wait the full duration of your Stealth to regain any Initiative until landing the blow without much worry.
Also again, 6 seconds only if TRAITED for it, as in, going all the way to Grandmaster for a 6 second CD on KS.
You are also completely ignoring all the other shortcomings the Rifle has compared to your cheesy Backstab.
I’m still saying landing the BS is easier. Otherwise we’d see alot more Rifle warriors dominating, wouldn’t we?
Also, hitting glass uplevels in WvW must make ya feel special with those numbers indeed.
“easier to spam it due to only worrying about Initiative”
This is really funny passage.
Back Stab “cost” 6 initiative when you use CaD = 6 sec CD, or 9 initiative ( Black powder + HS) With trait 7 initiative = 9/7sec CD. Or must waste utility slot spell (Blinding powder, Shadow refuge or Hide in Shadow)
Tell me what is easier ? Click F1 every 6 sec on long range hight DMG spell or go on close range use abilitiest that make stealth an hit enemy behind on full DMG potencial ?
BTW i hit 95% Kill Shot(15-22kDMG vs low armor class Thief and Ele) with me Warrior because i use frenzy,bolaso.
You make it sound like Thieves aren’t regenerating Initiative whilst they stealth or move. Please.
Plus, you can easily sit and wait the full duration of your Stealth to regain any Initiative until landing the blow without much worry. Same as Warrior retreat w8 on CD and go back, i missing point on this post
Also again, 6 seconds only if TRAITED for it, as in, going all the way to Grandmaster for a 6 second CD on KS. Ofcorse Thief dont need TRAITS on HIGHT DMG AND INITIATIVE REGEN LoL
You are also completely ignoring all the other shortcomings the Rifle has compared to your cheesy Backstab. Shortcomings ? Swap weapons fix it
I’m still saying landing the BS is easier. Otherwise we’d see alot more Rifle warriors dominating, wouldn’t we? Because Hammer train with AOE CC every 6 sec is better ?
Also, hitting glass uplevels in WvW must make ya feel special with those numbers indeed. Dont worry 13.5k+ DMG vs 80 LvL Berserker Thief Ele without might stack and 10k+ Volley
Ofcorse Thief dont need TRAITS on HIGHT DMG AND INITIATIVE REGEN LoL*
Not nearly as much to specialize for -1- Weapon to do even remotely the same amount of damage output. Which completely shuts them down from being effective in other areas. The very weapon itself is crippling and circumstantial.
Wanna know what screws over every KS? Blind. Damage output? 0.
The amount of effort it takes for a BS Thief to deal notable damage is nothing compared tot he investment a Rifle Warrior has to go through.
That is not an appropriate counterbalance to this argument. Since the other weapons in question also don’t have the same damage output or ability do they?
Ofcorse Thief dont need TRAITS on HIGHT DMG AND INITIATIVE REGEN LoL*
Not nearly as much to specialize for -1- Weapon to do even remotely the same amount of damage output. Which completely shuts them down from being effective in other areas. The very weapon itself is crippling and circumstantial.
Wanna know what screws over every KS? Blind. Damage output? 0.
The amount of effort it takes for a BS Thief to deal notable damage is nothing compared tot he investment a Rifle Warrior has to go through.
Sorry I have only 1.5k hours play time on me Warrior and 2.5k on me Thief, i have no idea what warrior must investing on Rifle Build
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