Guild Wars 2

Conncept.7638:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Conncept.7638:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

warriors are fine really, the other professions need to be brought in line.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/I-think-warrior-nerfed-too-much-with-proof/first#post4491252

there are no warriors in the top 50 solo arena ranking anymore.

As has been said a hundred times previously, this has little if anything to do with how powerful healing signet is anymore. It is still one of the least fun thing to play against in the entire game, even when balanced or underpowered.

yeah right, so you are telling me, it is fun to play against:
- turrets
- minions
- clones
- stealth
- 1500 sniper machine gun long bow
- etc

No they aren’t. Would you be whining about them if they were fun to play against?

The difference is several of those are not fun to play against because they are currently overpowered or poorly tuned. Healing Signet is one such that will be anti-fun no matter what nerfs are made to it.

Agreed, healing signet is bad design from the start, i always believed that active plays are better, specially when it’s some thing on your skill bar, but again, warrior does not have the mechanics to support such active heals it currently has, sadly.

Conncept.7638:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

warriors are fine really, the other professions need to be brought in line.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/I-think-warrior-nerfed-too-much-with-proof/first#post4491252

there are no warriors in the top 50 solo arena ranking anymore.

As has been said a hundred times previously, this has little if anything to do with how powerful healing signet is anymore. It is still one of the least fun thing to play against in the entire game, even when balanced or underpowered.

Subjective. As a person who played a warrior until recently I can tell you fighting another warrior using healing signet was not one of the “least fun” things to fight against.

Besides that, anet doesn’t balance around “fun”, which is, as I said, subjective.

You don’t like it and that’s fine, that doesn’t mean it need to be nerfed. Especially when warrior has received nothing but nerfs in the last 10 months and that still isn’t good enough for you (which is sad).

Adapt or get left behind.

But then.. anet listens to “feedback” like this. So you have a good shot at getting it nerfed, again.

fellyn.5083:

Subjective.

Thank-you for your masterful insight Sherlock. Subjective means it is subject to experience. Which even if true, is still not in your favor, as it is the opinion or a WHOLE lot more players that it isn’t fun to play against. Additionally, as there is both mathematic and practical evidence of its poor state, it isn’t subjective in the first place.

Did anyone complain about turrets back when they were laughably underpowered? What about necromancer minions? The ranger longbow?

No they did not.

Do they complain about them now that those skillsets have been buffed? Yep. Logically speaking, that means that whatever change took place in between those two points was to blame, and that overall the mechanics are sound.

Did people complain about Healing Signet before it was nerfed? Yep. Did they stop complaining about it when it was nerfed? Nope. Did they stop complaining about it when the entire class was nerfed? Again, no.

That isn’t proof, but combined with the hard undeniable math which shows how advantageous the signet is in any amount of passive play or stall of the fight by either party, it is good and plenty of evidence.

fellyn.5083:

Besides that, anet doesn’t balance around “fun”

And seriously? Fun doesn’t matter in the design of a game? Could you possibly be more disconnected from reality in your defense of this mechanic?

Conncept.7638:

fellyn.5083:

Subjective.

Thank-you for your masterful insight Sherlock. Subjective means it is subject to experience. Which even if true, is still not in your favor, as it is the opinion or a WHOLE lot more players that it isn’t fun to play against. Additionally, as there is both mathematic and practical evidence of its poor state, it isn’t subjective in the first place.

Did anyone complain about turrets back when they were laughably underpowered? What about necromancer minions? The ranger longbow?

No they did not.

Do they complain about them now that those skillsets have been buffed? Yep. Logically speaking, that means that whatever change took place in between those two points was to blame, and that overall the mechanics are sound.

Did people complain about Healing Signet before it was nerfed? Yep. Did they stop complaining about it when it was nerfed? Nope. Did they stop complaining about it when the entire class was nerfed? Again, no.

That isn’t proof, but combined with the hard undeniable math which shows how advantageous the signet is in any amount of passive play or stall of the fight by either party, it is good and plenty of evidence.

fellyn.5083:

Besides that, anet doesn’t balance around “fun”

And seriously? Fun doesn’t matter in the design of a game? Could you possibly be more disconnected from reality in your defense of this mechanic?

You argument is invalid, because when healing signet was laughably underpowered and unusable, no one complained about it, so not only your argument contents false information, it also disprove your point…

Simon.3794:

You argument is invalid, because when healing signet was laughably underpowered and unusable, no one complained about it, so not only your argument contents false information, it also disprove your point…

You have a serious problem with train of thought.

No one complained about it because no one had to play against it. Neither the players nor the developers can come to a conclusion about an unhealthy mechanic that is never tested by use.

But once it is tested and found to be unhealthy, which healing signet has been by any measure. There are only two logical options.

One, it is nerfed to the point that no one will use it, as healing signet was in the first place. In which case as I said it still isn’t fun, the horrible mechanics are still there, but of course no one is going to complain about them when they don’t have to deal with them.

Or the second, and the better of the two. That the unhealthy aspects of the mechanic are changed or removed while attempting to retain the healthy and gainful aspects of the mechanic. What we are trying to do and you are fighting against.

Why on earth did I have to explain to you what any one else could logically conclude from the argument?

So yes, you can nerf healing signet, but those nerfs are only going to be sufficient once they reach the point that no one has to play against it.

Artaz.3819:

pdavis.8031:

Conncept.7638:

kyubi.3620:

how about making warrior Healing signet over time heal scale with adrenaline?

The developers have stated they kind of regret putting in so many traits that reward you for not using your adrenaline already, so I doubt they are going to add more.

But I’ve had a similar idea. What about making healing signet heal whenever you gain adrenaline, scaling to the adrenaline gained? This means that passive portion would require active play with your weapon skills, as well as be able to be supplemented by other abilities which grant you adrenaline, such as the signets and several traits. This would also make it work better with faster more active weapons than slower more passive control weapons like the LB and hammer. Giving the warriors control bunker builds the nerfs they have needed for a long time without sacrificing other builds.

As an active, it would basically reverse, resetting your burst skills cooldown and causing expending your adrenaline to heal you.

Hmm interesting. Heres a thought. What about instead of changing HS to do that, why not adjust adrenal health to do that? Instead of granting additional healing for how much adrenaline you have, why not have it for burst healing based on how much adrenaline you’ve used? Not a large amount of course, maybe in line with the current numbers, for a small amount of health gained when using adrenaline bursts. As far as the signet itself goes, grant adrenaline gain on activation, along with the healing, thus granting slightly bigger healing burst if you use an adrenaline skill immedialty afterward.

And what if the burst skill misses? What’s the heal output then? Warriors don’t need more Adrenaline nerfs.

As long as the andrenaline is spent it doesn’t matter if the skill used hits, unlike cleansing ire, which requires a skill to hit. I’m not proposing a massive heal on adrenaline usage, but adding adrenaline gain from using the HS active with a revamped Adrenal Health makes more sense.
I also feel that the passive is in a decent place. Unless you are using cleric or nomads armor, healing power runes, and traiting fully into healing power, the passive health gain tick really isnt that much. At most it might minimize 1-2 stacks of bleed, but anything more than that doesn’t really matter. You only really notice it the most in PvE, or MAYBE WvW, but generally in PvP/WvW you are taking hits so quickly, that the passive healing ticks don’t really make much of a difference.

Conncept.7638:

Did anyone complain about turrets back when they were laughably underpowered? What about necromancer minions? The ranger longbow?

No they did not.

Simon.3794:

when healing signet was laughably underpowered and unusable, no one complained about it either.

Conncept.7638:

You have a serious problem with train of thought.

No one complained about it because no one had to play against it. Neither the players nor the developers can come to a conclusion about an unhealthy mechanic that is never tested by use.

hmm what? did you just countered your own argument?…did you see that huge arrow pointing from quote 3 to quote 1?

Simon.3794:

Conncept.7638:

Did anyone complain about turrets back when they were laughably underpowered? What about necromancer minions? The ranger longbow?

No they did not.

Simon.3794:

when healing signet was laughably underpowered and unusable, no one complained about it either.

Conncept.7638:

You have a serious problem with train of thought.

No one complained about it because no one had to play against it. Neither the players nor the developers can come to a conclusion about an unhealthy mechanic that is never tested by use.

hmm what? did you just countered your own argument?…did you see that huge arrow pointing from quote 3 to quote 1?

And yet again, you have a serious problem with leaping over certain aspects of an argument and drawing inexistent parallels between them.

In this case that inexistent parallel being that I haven’t concluded at any point that LB spam, necromancer minions, or turrets are healthy or unhealthy mechanics. They have only just barely been buffed to usability, and it is my opinion that logically it seems they are not, but all could still be proven one way or the other given time.

Healing Signet on the other hand has been buffed and up and down twice since launch, and there has been plenty of time to come to a strong conclusion. There is experience from millions of players that it isn’t ever going to be healthy, and they aren’t ever going to be happy with it as its mechanics currently stand. As well as comparative math between it and every other passive healing in the game supporting that argument.

And all that versus your argument, which you have provided no evidence for, beyond inane accusations of my and pretty much everyone being lesser players than you and as such having no right to have and share an opinion that could ‘wrongfully’ influence the developers.

So then lets hear it, what evidence do you have the healing signet is okay?

Why don’t we just remove Warriors from the game entirely?

How are people still calling for nerfs to this class? It’s almost baffling.

This guy just completely counter argued himself and denied all his previous arguments (which also contents false information) while trying to fight back…
really.. amusing…

Sure, you did not stat your opinion over whether MM turrets etc are healthy or not, but you tried to make contrast over your false information about how healing signet is worse then any of them…which you later counter argued…

Don’t blame people when your arguments are poorly thought/structured…

at the end, it really interests me, how you came to the conclusion that pointing out a history fact equals “im better then you all”…..
and if you actually read my 1st quote, i never said anything in favor of healing signet, because that is not my intent.

Monstrance.7403:

Why don’t we just remove Warriors from the game entirely?

How are people still calling for nerfs to this class? It’s almost baffling.

Thank you Captain Overexaggeration

It’s one ability, not the entire class. And who knows what buffs people might tolerate or even encourage for the class given that they don’t have to deal with this single nightmarishly unfun ability anymore.

This guy just completely counter argued himself and denied all his previous arguments (which also contents false information) while trying to fight back…
really.. amusing…

Sure, you did not stat your opinion over whether MM turrets etc are healthy or not, but you tried to make contrast over your false information about how healing signet is worse then any of them…which you later counter argued…

Don’t blame people when your arguments are poorly thought/structured…

at the end, it really interests me, how you came to the conclusion about pointing out a history fact equals “im better then you all”…..
and if you actually read my 1st quote, i never said anything in favor of healing signet, because that is not my intent.

It really interests me that I haven’t actually heard a single argument from you yet, just an “obvusly is wrong een though i lack the coherent speech sufficient 2 state y or how.”

Seriously dude, everybody can read my post, nobody is falling for your passive aggressive reverse psychology bullcrap.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

- turrets

I do not think you understand. We are discussing about passive here. This skills have to be placed, and over charged, to function. Healing signet requires absolutely nothing beyond being equipped.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

- minions

I do not think you understand. We are discussing about passive here. This skills have to be placed, and over charged, to function. Healing signet requires absolutely nothing beyond being equipped.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

- clones

I do not think you understand. We are discussing about passive here. This skills have to be placed. Healing signet requires absolutely nothing beyond being equipped.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

- stealth

Umm, this isn;t passive at all. it is a effect of a physically taken action. Healing signet requires absolutely nothing beyond being equipped.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

- 1500 sniper machine gun long bow

This isn’t passive in the least bit.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

i say, deal with it, it is a class mechanic for kitten’s sake.

I’d say you do not appear to understand what a professional mechanic is then. Nothing you said was a profession mechanic. Not to mention you have post, complaining about passive skills/traits on other professions. You never accepted “deal with it” as an acceptable argument if it was directed to you.

coglin.1867:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

- turrets

I do not think you understand. We are discussing about passive here. This skills have to be placed, and over charged, to function. Healing signet requires absolutely nothing beyond being equipped.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

- minions

I do not think you understand. We are discussing about passive here. This skills have to be placed, and over charged, to function. Healing signet requires absolutely nothing beyond being equipped.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

- clones

I do not think you understand. We are discussing about passive here. This skills have to be placed. Healing signet requires absolutely nothing beyond being equipped.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

- stealth

Umm, this isn;t passive at all. it is a effect of a physically taken action. Healing signet requires absolutely nothing beyond being equipped.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

- 1500 sniper machine gun long bow

This isn’t passive in the least bit.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

i say, deal with it, it is a class mechanic for kitten’s sake.

I’d say you do not appear to understand what a professional mechanic is then. Nothing you said was a profession mechanic. Not to mention you have post, complaining about passive skills/traits on other professions. You never accepted “deal with it” as an acceptable argument if it was directed to you.

+1 to your thinking if only 25% of the community could think like that.

To the toxic zerker(yes you are) taggers the game is not based on personal likings but over variety and diversity. Hate ranged,AI,condi…. all you want tough no one can stop you. I hate word the meta…

Conncept.7638:

Monstrance.7403:

Why don’t we just remove Warriors from the game entirely?

How are people still calling for nerfs to this class? It’s almost baffling.

Thank you Captain Overexaggeration

It’s one ability, not the entire class. And who knows what buffs people might tolerate or even encourage for the class given that they don’t have to deal with this single nightmarishly unfun ability anymore.

This guy just completely counter argued himself and denied all his previous arguments (which also contents false information) while trying to fight back…
really.. amusing…

Sure, you did not stat your opinion over whether MM turrets etc are healthy or not, but you tried to make contrast over your false information about how healing signet is worse then any of them…which you later counter argued…

Don’t blame people when your arguments are poorly thought/structured…

at the end, it really interests me, how you came to the conclusion about pointing out a history fact equals “im better then you all”…..
and if you actually read my 1st quote, i never said anything in favor of healing signet, because that is not my intent.

It really interests me that I haven’t actually heard a single argument from you yet, just an “obvusly is wrong een though i lack the coherent speech sufficient 2 state y or how.”

Seriously dude, everybody can read my post, nobody is falling for your passive aggressive reverse psychology bullcrap.

And thank YOU, Captain Clueless. Quick question; have you actually played the class recently? They’re complete garbage in WvW and PvE and movement skills don’t even work anymore. They can only compete with Necromancers in terms of DPS and now you want to take away their survivability too.

I’m sitting here waiting patiently for Guardian nerfs because they’re superior in every conceivable way at the moment. They do more damage, have more defenses, and have FAR more utility. This probably won’t happen because unlike Warriors, Guardians don’t have a massive stigma attached to the class that results in tons of people crying about them being too easy.

Conncept.7638:

if you actually red my posts, i’ve stated that healing signet is bad design, it’s not overpowered, but it’s bad design.

really, i have no intention to go against your position on the subject, just wanted to point out how poorly structured your arguments were, alone with easily misleading information. it can be really bad for the community.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

NinjaEd.3946:

-snip- Quip about Stability

6- warrior skill level is below the sewers and its place in pve/wvw/pvp is most certainly not. No class should be this forgiving when it makes mistakes, but with the adrenaline “super nerf” they are slowly getting there. Enjoy your passive play style while you can.

Guardians have highest stability access.

I wouldnt call Warrior skill floor low with all of the decap engies, rangers, C-eles, Terrormancers, and P-Mesmers out there.

Skill ceiling is low though. In higher tier play, Warriors are incredibly weak 1v1 because of their passivity.

If warrior skill ceiling is increased to allow them better control over their combat to compensate for the presumed need for a rising skill floor, I am all for it. All people seem to be concerned about is hiking up the skill floor so that people founder aimlessly with them, while giving no opinion or suggestion as to how the ceiling could be improved to make them even remotely relevant in High tier play (because apparently bunker is too passive as well.)

Make them difficult to play with only an average reward? While “drop crate to win, its okay ill just stealth” exist? Good luck.

Meanwhile guardians, who decap points all day and outclass warriors if they spec medi, have absolutely nothing said about them.

It seems warrior is the only class that needs to ‘prove its worth’ to anyone else , while the other classes are happily being just as passive with skills and class mechanics instead of minimalistic healing that can’t mitigate burst.

Let anet do as they please though. The people that abuse the ‘cheap’ tactics warrior has won’t just vanish if Anet decides to listen to this drivel. Theyll just move on to something just as easy and make their passivity more glaring, like they did with the ranger buff.

At the base of it all, the uptime of stability on warrior excels still even if you only compare balanced stance to SyG. Add boon duration and balanced stance (which has a higher base) will take the lead even further, add traits and still. That is just 1 of 2 normal stability sources warrior has, guardian has 2 but 1 of them requires you to stand in an AoE drop zone and has a longer cooldown. Guardian certainly competes but it does not have a higher uptime on stability.

I would definitely call warrior skill level low, but I never said lowest. I’m aware of the “cheese” builds that sit there and press a few buttons and let AI do the rest. Despite these builds being very common, it doesn’t mean warrior is difficult to play as an overall class or any of its known builds.

All I ever want is compromise, flat nerfs do nothing good. Lose some gain some elsewhere, that is how balance should be.

They should imo pursue the removal of low risk high reward builds across all professions. It won’t happen in 1 patch, it certainly won’t happen anytime within this year, but keep at their removal until there are no easy wins for people. Balance is constantly changing with, like people you said, who just move to the next thing. It’d be a very sad world if everyone just gave up when a new problem arose. Kind of hard to accomplish anything close to that with semiannual patches though…

Warrior does have low skill ceiling and predictable moves, that’s why it struggles against any one else 1v1 in high level plays.
and No, warrior is not forgiving, warrior does not simply take damage, because hes noob and he can’t react to it. it’s because he has limited defense options. It a choice between which attack should i avoid, which should i take, if you waste your limited defense on the wrong attacks, you are dead.

Of course, warrior also has low skill floor, easy to pick up and play and it will dominate noobs, like how mesmer did, but game is not balanced around noobs.

do you remember when Healing signet in gw1 , it gave the warroir a Heal spike only but doing so gave the warroir -40 armour…

well why don’t they buff the active of healing signets heal for a better heal compaired to the passive , and just add while casting healing signet you have -250 toughness.

balancing the amount of Hp gained at the risk of the lost toughness for the duration of the cast , may encourage the active use of healing signet and makes it possible to use while not carrying any Adrenline or even heal after a F1 Burst.

Caberea.8139:

So, from my experiences playing as a warrior, I’ve found Healing Signet to just be ridiculously. Having a the highest base health regen out of anything in the game. This may seem justified given how it’s a healing skill, however, the high base health regen means that the warrior is automatically a lot tankier than others purely from the health regen alone. Throughout the entire time playing as them, I never saw any reason to change from healing signet, and barely ever wanted to activate it, considering how the passive healing is easily twice as strong as the active heal.

The 2 simplest ways to making the other healing skills more viable are to

1. Increase healing on the other skills avaliable, or reduce cooldowns so the heals are more readily avaliable.

2. Reduce the passive healing from Healing signet.

Either that or a combination of the two. However, by reducing healing signets total healing, it could very well be seen as worse than all the others. Therefore, if the healing power contribution ratio were to be increased alongside a decrease to the base healing power of the signet. It would emphasize more tanky builds for the use of healing signet, as opposed to just being the healing skill for every warrior.

Also, for comparison as to just how powerful Healing signets passive is, here’s a comparison to the other heal signets passives (Healing signet heals 362 every second):

Necromancer: Heals 325 base healing (Though double healing power contribution) whenever the necro takes damage, 1 second cooldown. (Likely healing a bit slower than once every second), However, has the most powerful active out of any signet, With an initial base heal of 3,960 (Other signet heals are 3,275 base) and a further healing of 392 to the first 25 strikes against a target in 6 seconds. Also dealing a bonus 201 damage per hit.

Thief: Heals for 132 base healing with each attack. Since thieves attack quite fast, this means they can get quite a lot of healing from this, however, they must be constantly active in the fight in order to do this.

Elementalist: Heals for 202 base healing with every spell cast. This is a bit of a weaker version of the thiefs, and given how both are rather evasive (At least at melee), this one seems to be the weakest signet in most situations, as dagger elementalists normally hit about half as fast as theives, and staff/scepter elementalists normally taking four times as long.

Looking at the comparison, I would also recommend a small buff for the elementalist signet. Perhaps something along the lines of its active refreshing element switching or something? Just a suggestion.

Have you been with the game long? Doesn’t seem like it.

HS doesn’t have a great ratio between healing and healing power specifically to provide a sturdy regen option to builds that don’t spec into healing power.

That was the idea when the skill was buffed.
It was then nerfed with no compensation to its active.

So yeah – i don’t see the skill as particularly OP now.

Also you seem to be comparing skills across profession without actually realizing that you can’t do that since different professions play totally differently.

Yes some classes heal for less but some classes can also blink or go invisible.
Other classes have much more effective ways of mitigating incoming damage.

The bottom line is this : warrior is already in a deplorable state – nerfing the signet isn’t going to help anything. Unless you want to help people stop playing the class.

If the other skills are really that unused- then maybe a buff should be in order for some of them.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

at the moment, warrior’s healing signet is fine, in a very good spot and does not require further adjustments. thank you.

No. No it isn’t. Because it is an option in which 100% passive behavior is the best option.

sinject.4607:

it is the year of our lord 2014 and people are still complaining about healing signet

Which seems contradictory considering how hard you bash IP. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You either are fine with Incendiary Powder and Healing signet as passive effects, or you are not. You cannot support one and condemn the other, and be balanced in your perspective.

And so are a lot of traits. Passive.

Passive play isn’t a problem here – the problem here is that we were promised this :
HS wouldn’t be nerfed until a good idea to change the active would be chosen. Hundreds of ideas were put forward.

Result?

HS heal was nerfed without an active heal change.

The reason it’s a passive skill is because they’ve never bothered to make the active worth wile situationally. Like they said they would.

kyubi.3620:

how about making warrior Healing signet over time heal scale with adrenaline?

The same adrenaline they butchered ?

Conncept.7638:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Conncept.7638:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

warriors are fine really, the other professions need to be brought in line.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/I-think-warrior-nerfed-too-much-with-proof/first#post4491252

there are no warriors in the top 50 solo arena ranking anymore.

As has been said a hundred times previously, this has little if anything to do with how powerful healing signet is anymore. It is still one of the least fun thing to play against in the entire game, even when balanced or underpowered.

yeah right, so you are telling me, it is fun to play against:
- turrets
- minions
- clones
- stealth
- 1500 sniper machine gun long bow
- etc

No they aren’t. Would you be whining about them if they were fun to play against?

The difference is several of those are not fun to play against because they are currently overpowered or poorly tuned. Healing Signet is one such that will be anti-fun no matter what nerfs are made to it.

This is ridiculous.
What about stealth? Stealth isn’t fun to play against. I can’t have fun not seeing my opponent.

What about clones? Clones aren’t fun to play against. It’s confusing and annoying to have so many things on the screen.

However these aren’t a problem – but HS is. Cute.

Conncept.7638:

fellyn.5083:

Subjective.

Thank-you for your masterful insight Sherlock. Subjective means it is subject to experience. Which even if true, is still not in your favor, as it is the opinion or a WHOLE lot more players that it isn’t fun to play against. Additionally, as there is both mathematic and practical evidence of its poor state, it isn’t subjective in the first place.

Did anyone complain about turrets back when they were laughably underpowered? What about necromancer minions? The ranger longbow?

No they did not.

Do they complain about them now that those skillsets have been buffed? Yep. Logically speaking, that means that whatever change took place in between those two points was to blame, and that overall the mechanics are sound.

Did people complain about Healing Signet before it was nerfed? Yep. Did they stop complaining about it when it was nerfed? Nope. Did they stop complaining about it when the entire class was nerfed? Again, no.

That isn’t proof, but combined with the hard undeniable math which shows how advantageous the signet is in any amount of passive play or stall of the fight by either party, it is good and plenty of evidence.

fellyn.5083:

Besides that, anet doesn’t balance around “fun”

And seriously? Fun doesn’t matter in the design of a game? Could you possibly be more disconnected from reality in your defense of this mechanic?

Did people complain about HS being not fun to play against before it was buffed?
You know? When it only healed for about 200hps?
Did they? No – they didn’t.

So please stop making silly arguments.

Harper.4173:

Did people complain about HS being not fun to play against before it was buffed?
You know? When it only healed for about 200hps?
Did they? No – they didn’t.

It wasn’t OP at 50% effectiveness, and for months after the buff no one really expected ~400 health per second uninterrupted would be strong to begin with, until they realize what warrior is capable of.

When they shaved 7% or 16% w/e after promising a compensation to the active and instead just shaved it, that was dead wrong of them. The passive still imho is too strong being that it has such a high base value and let’s a majority of warrior builds focus entirely on offense letting HS tick them up throughout the fight. If the idea of the HS buff (from what I’ve heard in the past) was to put warrior’s in a sturdy position so they cannot be booted out of a fight so easily, why is the base value soo good?

I’d have no problem if HS was slightly buffed overall on a healing power orientated build, atleast a warrior like that would have a better position as a bunker but wouldn’t be sniping people as easily. By this I mean nerf HS for non-healing power builds but a slight amount and a large amount of healing power you will start to see quite a difference. It’s the sacrafise of an offense stat for a defensive one that I think would be more than fair.

At the same time (so all or none), address the active of HS and the other healing skill options for kitten’s sake.

Conncept.7638:

fellyn.5083:

Subjective.

Thank-you for your masterful insight Sherlock. Subjective means it is subject to experience. Which even if true, is still not in your favor, as it is the opinion or a WHOLE lot more players that it isn’t fun to play against. Additionally, as there is both mathematic and practical evidence of its poor state, it isn’t subjective in the first place.

Did anyone complain about turrets back when they were laughably underpowered? What about necromancer minions? The ranger longbow?

No they did not.

Do they complain about them now that those skillsets have been buffed? Yep. Logically speaking, that means that whatever change took place in between those two points was to blame, and that overall the mechanics are sound.

Did people complain about Healing Signet before it was nerfed? Yep. Did they stop complaining about it when it was nerfed? Nope. Did they stop complaining about it when the entire class was nerfed? Again, no.

That isn’t proof, but combined with the hard undeniable math which shows how advantageous the signet is in any amount of passive play or stall of the fight by either party, it is good and plenty of evidence.

fellyn.5083:

Besides that, anet doesn’t balance around “fun”

And seriously? Fun doesn’t matter in the design of a game? Could you possibly be more disconnected from reality in your defense of this mechanic?

It’s subjective because it’s your opinion that is not backed by fact. It has nothing to do with experience. Now, if you said in your experience, it’s not fun to play against a warrior using heal sig, then you’re starting to have the beginnings of an argument that works. The key point here is that this is an opinion.

You said specifically that it’s not fun to play against. Which literally means nothing to anyone else who plays the game because we all have different ideas of what’s fun to play against and what’s not.

I hate playing against mesmers. To you? Apparently 400~ hp a second is a huge barrier you can’t overcome.

And yes, Anet doesn’t balance around “fun” because as I said, everyone finds different things fun. I know you like to claim you’re speaking for “everyone” but I’m sorry to break it to you but you are not.

NinjaEd.3946:

Harper.4173:

Did people complain about HS being not fun to play against before it was buffed?
You know? When it only healed for about 200hps?
Did they? No – they didn’t.

It wasn’t OP at 50% effectiveness, and for months after the buff no one really expected ~400 health per second uninterrupted would be strong to begin with, until they realize what warrior is capable of.

When they shaved 7% or 16% w/e after promising a compensation to the active and instead just shaved it, that was dead wrong of them. The passive still imho is too strong being that it has such a high base value and let’s a majority of warrior builds focus entirely on offense letting HS tick them up throughout the fight. If the idea of the HS buff (from what I’ve heard in the past) was to put warrior’s in a sturdy position so they cannot be booted out of a fight so easily, why is the base value soo good?

I’d have no problem if HS was slightly buffed overall on a healing power orientated build, atleast a warrior like that would have a better position as a bunker but wouldn’t be sniping people as easily. By this I mean nerf HS for non-healing power builds but a slight amount and a large amount of healing power you will start to see quite a difference. It’s the sacrafise of an offense stat for a defensive one that I think would be more than fair.

At the same time (so all or none), address the active of HS and the other healing skill options for kitten’s sake.

Because the way they want the class is they want warrior in a sturdy spot without them having to go into healing power.

The class needs to pack a punch. If you want extra healing you can go for it in a build but the idea was to give a viable heal to non-healing power oriented builds.

They specifically said this.

The skill is fine as it is – the way you want to make it goes against the philosophy they used when they actually made the skill.

The whole point is to have other builds have a strong heal and not force warrior into a bunker role ( since Guardian is already superior in that position).

Harper.4173:

This is ridiculous.
What about stealth? Stealth isn’t fun to play against. I can’t have fun not seeing my opponent.

What about clones? Clones aren’t fun to play against. It’s confusing and annoying to have so many things on the screen.

However these aren’t a problem – but HS is. Cute.

No duh, the two most complained about mechanics in the game are unhealthy, who’d a thunk. People have complained about those since launch for a reason. They are unhealthy mechanics the majority agree are not fun except for those exploiting them and they are more due for a redesign than healing signet, but in no logical way detract from healing signets own cancerous gameplay elements.

fellyn.5083:

It’s subjective because it’s your opinion that is not backed by fact. It has nothing to do with experience. Now, if you said in your experience, it’s not fun to play against a warrior using heal sig, then you’re starting to have the beginnings of an argument that works. The key point here is that this is an opinion.

Umm… do you read?

Conncept.7638:

as it is the opinion of a WHOLE lot more players that it isn’t fun to play against.

Obviously, I am one of those players.

And it is backed up by fact, Healing Signet passively heals for more with less counterplay than any other skill in the game. All other healing skills are affected by interrupts, even every other passive heal. The only skill that comes close to it in terms of investment to output is Healing Turret, and that can be killed, zoned, and interrupted twice per use. And the only comparable exception to its lackl of counterplay isn’t even a healing skill but the Elementalist’s Soothing Mist trait, and it only works with the elementalists least damaging lowest control skillset, requires a trait investment, and isn’t even up at all times.

Simon.3794:

if you actually red my posts, i’ve stated that healing signet is bad design, it’s not overpowered, but it’s bad design.

really, i have no intention to go against your position on the subject, just wanted to point out how poorly structured your arguments were, alone with easily misleading information. it can be really bad for the community.

No, you wanted to claim how poor my argument structure was without any ability or knowledge to provide evidence or even clearly state how, merely that it is unsound because you sarcastically say so without any concrete statement of how or why.

EDIT: Admittedly there are two other passive heals in the game which have no ability to be interrupted which I forgot, Signet of Vampirism and Rune of the Dolyak. I’m sorry I’m trying not to laugh at this point.

So if warriors are willing to take more damage than they heal for in order to heal passively, or heal for a max of 140 HP per second with the highest possible healing power in the game, then I guess Healing Signet having no counterplay whatsoever is totally okay. XD

Simon.3794:

Conncept.7638:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Conncept.7638:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

warriors are fine really, the other professions need to be brought in line.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/I-think-warrior-nerfed-too-much-with-proof/first#post4491252

there are no warriors in the top 50 solo arena ranking anymore.

As has been said a hundred times previously, this has little if anything to do with how powerful healing signet is anymore. It is still one of the least fun thing to play against in the entire game, even when balanced or underpowered.

yeah right, so you are telling me, it is fun to play against:
- turrets
- minions
- clones
- stealth
- 1500 sniper machine gun long bow
- etc

No they aren’t. Would you be whining about them if they were fun to play against?

The difference is several of those are not fun to play against because they are currently overpowered or poorly tuned. Healing Signet is one such that will be anti-fun no matter what nerfs are made to it.

Agreed, healing signet is bad design from the start, i always believed that active plays are better, specially when it’s some thing on your skill bar, but again, warrior does not have the mechanics to support such active heals it currently has, sadly.

This. If our other healing skills weren’t so ineffective, I’d use them more often. HS offers the best heal overall for Warriors. I dont care if it required active management or not; Its just a bonus to an already decent heal.

Suggest something as useful as HS with an active counterpart and ill spring for it, even though I know that won’t stop the complaining. Having to press an extra button doesnt require much intellectual capacity.

The problem is people like Conncept don’t realize that the signet has counterplay. It’s called poison.
It also has counterplay in the form of high bursts that the signet can’t recover. It heals well but over time and if a high burst is applied the warrior has no way to reheal fast.

@Conncept – what you fail to realize is that the game isn’t built around “what’s fun to play against” because guess what – people adapt.

If you take the top 3 less fun things to play against in the game and destroy them or take them out of the game guess what? People will still complain about the next ones in line.

Ultimately anything that doesn’t roll over and die isn’t fun to play against because games like these provide a power fantasy and anything that doesn’t play into that (Enemies being strong and winning, having abilities to escape, etc) will ultimately end up not being “fun” to play against.

Also please stop trying to give us “numbers” like " a whole lot more players hate healing signet" because honestly you have no idea what the metrics are. All you’re doing is giving us your opinion backed up by your own ideas of how things are.

Harper.4173:

Because the way they want the class is they want warrior in a sturdy spot without them having to go into healing power.

The class needs to pack a punch. If you want extra healing you can go for it in a build but the idea was to give a viable heal to non-healing power oriented builds.

They specifically said this.

The skill is fine as it is – the way you want to make it goes against the philosophy they used when they actually made the skill.

The whole point is to have other builds have a strong heal and not force warrior into a bunker role ( since Guardian is already superior in that position).

If that’s the case why did they choose to add insult to injury making the passive option their best one? Warrior has a ton of ridicule because of their passive defenses being so up

My option may not be the best, but let’s not pretend that everything anet does is for the better good. Some things help, some things don’t, the whole point is to reassess and act. They had 3 healing skills to work with at the time and they choose the easiest path which has had nothing but disapproval of amongst a large sum of players. I’d say something was done wrong and should of been fully addressed long ago rather than shaving a small % off the passive and ignore the active along with 3 other healing skills. That’s just wrong.

Guardian being the best bunker falls back into what was promised from the start, every class can play every role. There is fine print along with that but you’d think the only other heavy armor profession with AoE healing and regen would be able to fight for the bunker role without depending entirely on their choice of healing skill (being passive)? Again, that’s just wrong.

Bottom line they tried something, and its visibly blown up in their face and nothing has been address on it. The lack of action on these kinds of things is what ticks me off.

Harper.4173:

The problem is people like Conncept don’t realize that the signet has counterplay. It’s called poison.

Right, it’s so simple, Every other active heals, all you need to do is cleanse poison before using your heal.

for healing signet, every second the poison is on, will affect your healing.
that being said, all you need to do is apply poison after a warrior land combustive shot then avoid earthshaker, and he will be on poison for how long your skill support for the next 10 seconds, you can also apply 3 conditions before applying poison…and warrior will be stuck with poison even with full adrenaline combustive shot.

NinjaEd.3946:

Harper.4173:

Because the way they want the class is they want warrior in a sturdy spot without them having to go into healing power.

The class needs to pack a punch. If you want extra healing you can go for it in a build but the idea was to give a viable heal to non-healing power oriented builds.

They specifically said this.

The skill is fine as it is – the way you want to make it goes against the philosophy they used when they actually made the skill.

The whole point is to have other builds have a strong heal and not force warrior into a bunker role ( since Guardian is already superior in that position).

If that’s the case why did they choose to add insult to injury making the passive option their best one? Warrior has a ton of ridicule because of their passive defenses being so up

My option may not be the best, but let’s not pretend that everything anet does is for the better good. Some things help, some things don’t, the whole point is to reassess and act. They had 3 healing skills to work with at the time and they choose the easiest path which has had nothing but disapproval of amongst a large sum of players. I’d say something was done wrong and should of been fully addressed long ago rather than shaving a small % off the passive and ignore the active along with 3 other healing skills. That’s just wrong.

Guardian being the best bunker falls back into what was promised from the start, every class can play every role. There is fine print along with that but you’d think the only other heavy armor profession with AoE healing and regen would be able to fight for the bunker role without depending entirely on their choice of healing skill (being passive)? Again, that’s just wrong.

Bottom line they tried something, and its visibly blown up in their face and nothing has been address on it. The lack of action on these kinds of things is what ticks me off.

Again with the " large number of players" which you don’t even know.
Also HS was the skill chosen because they wanted to give warrior “passive sustain”. You can’t do that unless you buff a passive skill.

Harper.4173:

Conncept.7638:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Conncept.7638:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

warriors are fine really, the other professions need to be brought in line.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/I-think-warrior-nerfed-too-much-with-proof/first#post4491252

there are no warriors in the top 50 solo arena ranking anymore.

As has been said a hundred times previously, this has little if anything to do with how powerful healing signet is anymore. It is still one of the least fun thing to play against in the entire game, even when balanced or underpowered.

yeah right, so you are telling me, it is fun to play against:
- turrets
- minions
- clones
- stealth
- 1500 sniper machine gun long bow
- etc

No they aren’t. Would you be whining about them if they were fun to play against?

The difference is several of those are not fun to play against because they are currently overpowered or poorly tuned. Healing Signet is one such that will be anti-fun no matter what nerfs are made to it.

This is ridiculous.
What about stealth? Stealth isn’t fun to play against. I can’t have fun not seeing my opponent.

What about clones? Clones aren’t fun to play against. It’s confusing and annoying to have so many things on the screen.

However these aren’t a problem – but HS is. Cute.

Actually, I feel the problem is that your trying to justify complete and total passive play, or lack of play. Poisons existence does not justify absolute passiveness.

Harper.4173:

Again with the " large number of players" which you don’t even know.
Also HS was the skill chosen because they wanted to give warrior “passive sustain”. You can’t do that unless you buff a passive skill.

The proof on the “large number of players”, just hop into hotm map chat or browse these forums and see how many people dislike Healing signet. Hell, make a poll and ask how many people think healing signet is a well made skill in its current form. I think this post and all the others before are more than enough to show that even if they tweaked with the numbers it is a poorly made skill. I’d go so far as to say it is toxic for warrior and is the root to many Q.Q when they couple this with build X Y or Z. It simply is too good on the warrior kit, but shouldn’t exist anywhere given it has all reward and almost no risk (I did say almost).

I’d love for you to pull the quote where anet preferred a “passive” sustain alternative.

Because as we all know forum posters and pvpers make up the majority of the player base.

It’s almost like you guys forget that there are 2 more game modes in the game. Both of which are far more popular than pvp.

Also I’ve hung out in the mist. I’ve never seen anyone complain about healing sig. So if we’re talking anecdotal (at best) evidence, whose is more valid? Mine or yours?

fellyn.5083:

Because as we all know forum posters and pvpers make up the majority of the player base.

It’s almost like you guys forget that there are 2 more game modes in the game. Both of which are far more popular than pvp.

Also I’ve hung out in the mist. I’ve never seen anyone complain about healing sig. So if we’re talking anecdotal (at best) evidence, whose is more valid? Mine or yours?

You wana hang in wvw and take a head count of warriors? How about speed clear groups for pve?

Watching paint dry isn’t going to teach you anything, if you read anything I said I suggested you take a poll or ask people for their take on HS. I never said it was the hot topic in all of the game that you could come across regularly in map chat when you log/zone in. The most probable place to find balance talk would be in hotm though, where it is more relevant.

Still waiting on that link to the anet statement on HS buff.

NinjaEd.3946:

fellyn.5083:

Because as we all know forum posters and pvpers make up the majority of the player base.

It’s almost like you guys forget that there are 2 more game modes in the game. Both of which are far more popular than pvp.

Also I’ve hung out in the mist. I’ve never seen anyone complain about healing sig. So if we’re talking anecdotal (at best) evidence, whose is more valid? Mine or yours?

You wana hang in wvw and take a head count of warriors? How about speed clear groups for pve?

Watching paint dry isn’t going to teach you anything, if you read anything I said I suggested you take a poll or ask people for their take on HS. I never said it was the hot topic in all of the game that you could come across regularly in map chat when you log/zone in.

Still waiting on that link to the anet statement on HS buff.

Dungeon speed clear, number of warrior is 1 Max. (if going for fastest) because there are 4 classes with better dps, warrior is there mainly for damage buffs.
in WvW guardian is way better in terms of the same role, a group of 10 guardians will steamroll a group of 10 warriors.

Simon.3794:

NinjaEd.3946:

fellyn.5083:

Because as we all know forum posters and pvpers make up the majority of the player base.

It’s almost like you guys forget that there are 2 more game modes in the game. Both of which are far more popular than pvp.

Also I’ve hung out in the mist. I’ve never seen anyone complain about healing sig. So if we’re talking anecdotal (at best) evidence, whose is more valid? Mine or yours?

You wana hang in wvw and take a head count of warriors? How about speed clear groups for pve?

Watching paint dry isn’t going to teach you anything, if you read anything I said I suggested you take a poll or ask people for their take on HS. I never said it was the hot topic in all of the game that you could come across regularly in map chat when you log/zone in.

Still waiting on that link to the anet statement on HS buff.

Dungeon speed clear, number of warrior is 1 Max. (if going for fastest) because there are 4 classes with better dps, warrior is there mainly for damage buffs.
in WvW guardian is way better in terms of the same role, a group of 10 guardians will steamroll a group of 10 warriors.

Based on what calculation exactly? Only obvious contender is ele because of frostbow for the #4 as far as pve goes, rest is entirely objective. You also have to factor in which class is easier to play and can still perform. I’ve had a wide mix of groups from the occasional engi, necro, ranger even but warrior has always been the most common. Every now and then I see more guardian over warrior but very rarely and likely a random result of the LFG system. I can’t recall doing a fotm 40+ or cof/ac/coe/etc run without warrior(s) in the mix.

Even if you ran 100 dungeons with mostly guardians vs warriors you still have to factor in slip ups, people’s gear, people’s build, etc. Doubt you’d be able to pull anything noticeably different between the 2 times.

NinjaEd.3946:

Simon.3794:

NinjaEd.3946:

fellyn.5083:

Because as we all know forum posters and pvpers make up the majority of the player base.

It’s almost like you guys forget that there are 2 more game modes in the game. Both of which are far more popular than pvp.

Also I’ve hung out in the mist. I’ve never seen anyone complain about healing sig. So if we’re talking anecdotal (at best) evidence, whose is more valid? Mine or yours?

You wana hang in wvw and take a head count of warriors? How about speed clear groups for pve?

Watching paint dry isn’t going to teach you anything, if you read anything I said I suggested you take a poll or ask people for their take on HS. I never said it was the hot topic in all of the game that you could come across regularly in map chat when you log/zone in.

Still waiting on that link to the anet statement on HS buff.

Dungeon speed clear, number of warrior is 1 Max. (if going for fastest) because there are 4 classes with better dps, warrior is there mainly for damage buffs.
in WvW guardian is way better in terms of the same role, a group of 10 guardians will steamroll a group of 10 warriors.

Based on what calculation exactly? Only obvious contender is ele because of frostbow for the #4 as far as pve goes, rest is entirely objective. You also have to factor in which class is easier to play and can still perform. I’ve had a wide mix of groups from the occasional engi, necro, ranger even but warrior has always been the most common. Every now and then I see more guardian over warrior but very rarely and likely a random result of the LFG system. I can’t recall doing a fotm 40+ or cof/ac/coe/etc run without warrior(s) in the mix.

Even if you ran 100 dungeons with mostly guardians vs warriors you still have to factor in slip ups, people’s gear, people’s build, etc. Doubt you’d be able to pull anything noticeably different between the 2 times.

Like i said, if you want to do the fastest speed run, it’s 1 warrior max, why you keep saying the ease of play, you did say “speed clear” which is not random LFG with random pugs and which no noobs should be involved in this conversation and game is not balanced around noobs and pve is heck easy.

and clearly, you know nothing about speed run and max damage out put, if you think frostbow 4 is all ele has

and if you really know anything about speed run instead of acting like you know anything because you do LFG pug groups, you will know that all the fastest speed clears done in the current meta is one warrior max. really, researching is not hard

I never see less then 3 warriors. If your claiming only 1 warrior. What are you suggesting is the ideal team composition?

Simon.3794:

You simply forget the fact that other classes’ heals heal more % of their HP pool
compare warriors’ heals to warrior’s health pool
Which means their heals are more valuable compared to warriors ones..

classic! I am sure theres some greek word describing rhetoric that sounds (is) true at face value but is complete kitten.

Simon.3794:

Like i said, if you want to do the fastest speed run, it’s 1 warrior max, why you keep saying the ease of play, you did say “speed clear” which is not random LFG with random pugs and which no noobs should be involved in this conversation and game is not balanced around noobs and pve is heck easy.

and clearly, you know nothing about speed run and max damage out put, if you think frostbow 4 is all ele has

and if you really know anything about speed run instead of acting like you know anything because you do LFG pug groups, you will know that all the fastest speed clears done in the current meta is one warrior max. really, researching is not hard

Speed clear means literally what it looks like it means, clearing the dungeon quickly. If you wana argue the few seconds difference in part A-Z of a dungeon then you are probably the least enjoyable person to run a dungeon with.

Slip ups happen, it’s not a “noob” thing. It can be RL stuff, lag, messing up a rotation by a second, etc. If you’re glued to the monitor and timing your teammates by the second I would immediately report you for being a kitten and spam “lol” PM’s as I kick you from the group because that is toxic behavior. No one should care about a minute extra for a dungeon run, you’re just way to invested in the game at that point.

So your “optimal” group comp non-sense is just music to my ears. Warrior is low risk high reward in pve and can find a place in any “speed clear”.

NinjaEd.3946:

Simon.3794:

Like i said, if you want to do the fastest speed run, it’s 1 warrior max, why you keep saying the ease of play, you did say “speed clear” which is not random LFG with random pugs and which no noobs should be involved in this conversation and game is not balanced around noobs and pve is heck easy.

and clearly, you know nothing about speed run and max damage out put, if you think frostbow 4 is all ele has

and if you really know anything about speed run instead of acting like you know anything because you do LFG pug groups, you will know that all the fastest speed clears done in the current meta is one warrior max. really, researching is not hard

Speed clear means literally what it looks like it means, clearing the dungeon quickly. If you wana argue the few seconds difference in part A-Z of a dungeon then you are probably the least enjoyable person to run a dungeon with.

Slip ups happen, it’s not a “noob” thing. It can be RL stuff, lag, messing up a rotation by a second, etc. If you’re glued to the monitor and timing your teammates by the second I would immediately report you for being a kitten and spam “lol” PM’s as I kick you from the group because that is toxic behavior. No one should care about a minute extra for a dungeon run, you’re just way to invested in the game at that point.

So your “optimal” group comp non-sense is just music to my ears. Warrior is low risk high reward in pve and can find a place in any “speed clear”.

You are talking about PvE here, not PvP, a PvE noob is like really….a noob. he will die, no matter the class.
anyone who has an idea about what they are doing or should i say any warrior who can clear a dungeon quickly can switch to another class and have a faster clear speed (thats if there is already a warrior in the team)

a AC run, even in a pug group, i can run way faster on my ele then on my warrior. (even when no one else is a warrior.) and i don’t find it any more difficult, in fact, it’s way easier because i can kill things faster. (if you really want to talk about risk, the faster you kill, the easier the content, really,the longer the fight, the higher the risk), not to mention how many content you can skip much easier with group stealth and in some fight, aoe projectil reflect can be so valuable , really no reason to bring more then 1 warrior.

NinjaEd.3946:

Harper.4173:

Again with the " large number of players" which you don’t even know.
Also HS was the skill chosen because they wanted to give warrior “passive sustain”. You can’t do that unless you buff a passive skill.

The proof on the “large number of players”, just hop into hotm map chat or browse these forums and see how many people dislike Healing signet. Hell, make a poll and ask how many people think healing signet is a well made skill in its current form. I think this post and all the others before are more than enough to show that even if they tweaked with the numbers it is a poorly made skill. I’d go so far as to say it is toxic for warrior and is the root to many Q.Q when they couple this with build X Y or Z. It simply is too good on the warrior kit, but shouldn’t exist anywhere given it has all reward and almost no risk (I did say almost).

I’d love for you to pull the quote where anet preferred a “passive” sustain alternative.

I too would like to find it but forum search is broken.

Problem is this – you might think you’ve seen a lot of players dislike it – but since you dislike it yourself you’re only seeing what you want to see.
Because bias.

There are a lot more things people dislike more that will never be changed – I don’t see how HS has to be changed because some people dislike it.

Nothing in a game will be universally liked.

NinjaEd.3946:

Simon.3794:

NinjaEd.3946:

fellyn.5083:

Because as we all know forum posters and pvpers make up the majority of the player base.

It’s almost like you guys forget that there are 2 more game modes in the game. Both of which are far more popular than pvp.

Also I’ve hung out in the mist. I’ve never seen anyone complain about healing sig. So if we’re talking anecdotal (at best) evidence, whose is more valid? Mine or yours?

You wana hang in wvw and take a head count of warriors? How about speed clear groups for pve?

Watching paint dry isn’t going to teach you anything, if you read anything I said I suggested you take a poll or ask people for their take on HS. I never said it was the hot topic in all of the game that you could come across regularly in map chat when you log/zone in.

Still waiting on that link to the anet statement on HS buff.

Dungeon speed clear, number of warrior is 1 Max. (if going for fastest) because there are 4 classes with better dps, warrior is there mainly for damage buffs.
in WvW guardian is way better in terms of the same role, a group of 10 guardians will steamroll a group of 10 warriors.

Based on what calculation exactly? Only obvious contender is ele because of frostbow for the #4 as far as pve goes, rest is entirely objective. You also have to factor in which class is easier to play and can still perform. I’ve had a wide mix of groups from the occasional engi, necro, ranger even but warrior has always been the most common. Every now and then I see more guardian over warrior but very rarely and likely a random result of the LFG system. I can’t recall doing a fotm 40+ or cof/ac/coe/etc run without warrior(s) in the mix.

Even if you ran 100 dungeons with mostly guardians vs warriors you still have to factor in slip ups, people’s gear, people’s build, etc. Doubt you’d be able to pull anything noticeably different between the 2 times.

Also I see you haven’t been with the game long. Since there’s stuff in your post that proves you don’t really have a grasp of class DPS output.

Aside from that – another fun fact : there are more PVE warriors enjoying healing signet then there probably are sPVP hardcore players hating it.

You have to realize this game is mostly focused on PVE, and that PVP is an afterthought at best since hardly anybody plays it now.

NinjaEd.3946:

Simon.3794:

Like i said, if you want to do the fastest speed run, it’s 1 warrior max, why you keep saying the ease of play, you did say “speed clear” which is not random LFG with random pugs and which no noobs should be involved in this conversation and game is not balanced around noobs and pve is heck easy.

and clearly, you know nothing about speed run and max damage out put, if you think frostbow 4 is all ele has

and if you really know anything about speed run instead of acting like you know anything because you do LFG pug groups, you will know that all the fastest speed clears done in the current meta is one warrior max. really, researching is not hard

Speed clear means literally what it looks like it means, clearing the dungeon quickly. If you wana argue the few seconds difference in part A-Z of a dungeon then you are probably the least enjoyable person to run a dungeon with.

Slip ups happen, it’s not a “noob” thing. It can be RL stuff, lag, messing up a rotation by a second, etc. If you’re glued to the monitor and timing your teammates by the second I would immediately report you for being a kitten and spam “lol” PM’s as I kick you from the group because that is toxic behavior. No one should care about a minute extra for a dungeon run, you’re just way to invested in the game at that point.

So your “optimal” group comp non-sense is just music to my ears. Warrior is low risk high reward in pve and can find a place in any “speed clear”.

Your “vision” of a speed clear group is so funny. Also funny is the fact that you think you’d even be in one such group let alone be able to kick anyone.

Please, you’re only discrediting yourself with posts like these. I think everyone can see what level of experience and game understanding you’ve got.

Mitzruti.5719:

regarding ele’s signet: there’s a gm trait that allows them to utilize both the active and passive parts at the same time. it’s pretty stong with that

but noone would ever take the GM trait when it shares the slot with complete god mode against condition specs and immunity to condition CCs (like fear and immobilize).

NinjaEd.3946:

Simon.3794:

Like i said, if you want to do the fastest speed run, it’s 1 warrior max, why you keep saying the ease of play, you did say “speed clear” which is not random LFG with random pugs and which no noobs should be involved in this conversation and game is not balanced around noobs and pve is heck easy.

and clearly, you know nothing about speed run and max damage out put, if you think frostbow 4 is all ele has

and if you really know anything about speed run instead of acting like you know anything because you do LFG pug groups, you will know that all the fastest speed clears done in the current meta is one warrior max. really, researching is not hard

Speed clear means literally what it looks like it means, clearing the dungeon quickly. If you wana argue the few seconds difference in part A-Z of a dungeon then you are probably the least enjoyable person to run a dungeon with.

Slip ups happen, it’s not a “noob” thing. It can be RL stuff, lag, messing up a rotation by a second, etc. If you’re glued to the monitor and timing your teammates by the second I would immediately report you for being a kitten and spam “lol” PM’s as I kick you from the group because that is toxic behavior. No one should care about a minute extra for a dungeon run, you’re just way to invested in the game at that point.

So your “optimal” group comp non-sense is just music to my ears. Warrior is low risk high reward in pve and can find a place in any “speed clear”.

I find it amusing that you say you’ll kick people from a group because they expect everyone in the run to know what they’re doing because you claim it’s toxic behavior.

Yet you’re perfectly okay with kicking people from the group, reporting them, and “loling” at them after you’ve done so.

Lets talk about that toxic behavior..

fellyn.5083:

NinjaEd.3946:

Simon.3794:

Like i said, if you want to do the fastest speed run, it’s 1 warrior max, why you keep saying the ease of play, you did say “speed clear” which is not random LFG with random pugs and which no noobs should be involved in this conversation and game is not balanced around noobs and pve is heck easy.

and clearly, you know nothing about speed run and max damage out put, if you think frostbow 4 is all ele has

and if you really know anything about speed run instead of acting like you know anything because you do LFG pug groups, you will know that all the fastest speed clears done in the current meta is one warrior max. really, researching is not hard

Speed clear means literally what it looks like it means, clearing the dungeon quickly. If you wana argue the few seconds difference in part A-Z of a dungeon then you are probably the least enjoyable person to run a dungeon with.

Slip ups happen, it’s not a “noob” thing. It can be RL stuff, lag, messing up a rotation by a second, etc. If you’re glued to the monitor and timing your teammates by the second I would immediately report you for being a kitten and spam “lol” PM’s as I kick you from the group because that is toxic behavior. No one should care about a minute extra for a dungeon run, you’re just way to invested in the game at that point.

So your “optimal” group comp non-sense is just music to my ears. Warrior is low risk high reward in pve and can find a place in any “speed clear”.

I find it amusing that you say you’ll kick people from a group because they expect everyone in the run to know what they’re doing because you claim it’s toxic behavior.

Yet you’re perfectly okay with kicking people from the group, reporting them, and “loling” at them after you’ve done so.

Lets talk about that toxic behavior..

Funny that you would cater a Q.Q player rather than let them know how it feels to be kicked for stupid kitten.

I could care less for clearing a dungeon in the best time possible, there is no reward for it and I play the game to pass time not squeeze my kitten through the screen to let everyone know I’m pro. So yeah, I’d gladly make such a player feel bad for being a bad egg. Not much else I can or would want to do, because it wouldn’t be worth listening too.

Harper.4173:

I too would like to find it but forum search is broken.

Problem is this – you might think you’ve seen a lot of players dislike it – but since you dislike it yourself you’re only seeing what you want to see.
Because bias.

There are a lot more things people dislike more that will never be changed – I don’t see how HS has to be changed because some people dislike it.

Nothing in a game will be universally liked.

Google search OP…..

I don’t think, I’ve literally seen. You’d have to be new to the game to not come across the numerous posts that HS is bad or that warrior is easy-mode, or anything of the sort. The topic however is a dead horse and isn’t being beaten as much these days.

If you wana talk about how “how HS has to be changed because some people dislike it”, I beg you to play thief and enjoy the perspective there.

Nice how you will rapid fire posts but won’t actually go to the trouble to find out what people think on HS. Here I’ll help you-