Guild Wars 2

Tanky warriors are getting nerfed. And this is good for the game in that its going to promote diversity in play style rather than a huge chunk of all teams just playing a bunch of tanks and not every team will take a warrior or even 2 warriors. The less powerful tanky builds optional in this game the more diversity we will see in spvp.

D/D celestial ele deserved this nerf just as much as warrior did. D/D cele ele will be the new thing every team has 1 of or even 2 of. It promotes boring passive gameplay while also limiting teams from playing the builds (both by being so powerful of an option you can’t take anything else, and by crushing other builds so hard that you shouldn’t take them) that have fun and active gameplay and it needs to go.

Some possible things to nerf:
Drakes Breath – This ability is an absolutely huge chunk of all the damage a d/d ele does

Lightning Whip – Stow Weapon Lightning whip gives around 600 hp a second with signet of restoration and does the same damage as it would without using stow weapon.

Battle sigil – Celestial amulet gives great survivability with rather poor damage. But once you stack might you get tons of power and condi damage. There are other tanky builds and celestial amulet builds for other classes like rifle engineer that also get pretty toxic and this could help fix that. Just strait up putting it at 2 might stacks(only in spvp if needed) rather than 3 might stacks would do a lot of good. Battle sigil is a big reason most tanky builds are able to do the damage that they do.

Overall the combination of battle sigil/celestial amulet and strength or hoelbrak runes by a class and spec that can utilize all of the stats well becomes too strong.

Nerfs to some of these 4 things would help bring d/d ele in line.

Thanks for reading!

Hey phantaram, I agree with this for the most part, and in general I’m annoyed that anet seems to be making low risk high reward builds too accessible and too strong at many levels of play.

Out of curiosity, I’m concerned that a celestial spirit ranger with the buffed axe/dagger (and sword/torch) and strength runes will run into some of the similar issues that D/D eles have, such as being fairly tanky with good amounts of healing and tons of direct/condition damage through easy might stacking. Do you think that this type of spirit ranger could reach a similar status as DD ele? It does however lack mobility, and is somewhat weak to AoE and cleaving spirits down, but it does have a higher condition output than DD ele does.

Wait, are you telling me eles exploit by stowing after each lightning whip so it hits faster? Something that can basically be done with a macro?

Why hasn’t this exploit been fixed?

nearlight.3064:

Hey phantaram, I agree with this for the most part, and in general I’m annoyed that anet seems to be making low risk high reward builds too accessible and too strong at many levels of play.

Out of curiosity, I’m concerned that a celestial spirit ranger with the buffed axe/dagger (and sword/torch) and strength runes will run into some of the similar issues that D/D eles have, such as being fairly tanky with good amounts of healing and tons of direct/condition damage through easy might stacking. Do you think that this type of spirit ranger could reach a similar status as DD ele? It does however lack mobility, and is somewhat weak to AoE and cleaving spirits down, but it does have a higher condition output than DD ele does.

I think its a strong possibility rangers could go back to being the kings of 1v1 on side points. Warriors I’m pretty sure were the only thing holding them back. They won’t be optimal in a full on team fight I don’t think though.

Remove Celestial from spvp and u would balance so many classes with this one change

I am kind of split on this one. I don’t think a big nerf is needed, b/c celestial d/d ele doesn’t have as much going for it as tanky warriors did (less stab, must attack to heal, more susceptible to bursts, no invulns), but at the same time allows you to be effective with a large margin for error.

When decreasing the power-level, however, extreme care MUST be taken. They already tried nerfing the signet + cleansing water and it pushed eles down to “Please play a real class” tier in pvp (changing d/d skills and adding sigil stacking, strength runes, and celestial helped the recovery too).

I don’t think reducing drake’s breathe is as necessary, as it is a means of consistent pressure, and only hurts b/c of might stacking (burn is the only condi you need to clear really, unless you eat a churning earth, in which case you DESERVE to lose). The burns hurt, but just increasing the CD a bit doesn’t do anything as it would still be available each rotation through the elements anyway (and we can’t have every skill with super-long CD).

Lightning whip stow change would be just fine, imo (and all cancel-casts for benefit, tbh), but has technical hurdles in implementation.

I agree with reducing battle sigil, as it is too strong (especially with boon duration runes) given that it increases both power AND condi damage. It also would be reasonable to take the blast back off of frozen burst. Eles got their survivability back, so adding this bit of free dps increase wasn’t necessary.

And remove celestial? It was not used at all for the longest time and enables new build variety. The builds that use celestial aren’t game-breakingly OP, but some are just a little high on the power-level. Let’s not use a tactical nuke when all that is needed is a small scalpel.

I personally think that shaving the might-stacking potential just a bit would be just enough to keep the bruiser-type play style viable without hurting the close matchups too much, while also decreasing the margin for error just a bit. The survivability of d/d is in a good spot, just the damage needs a small shave to increase the time it takes d/d to kill.

Not sure why you suggested an ability that affects all builds to be nerfed while stating that only this build is an issue…

The whole point of Eles is to be able to utilise all the stats since they can’t excel in any.

The Lightning Whip thing should be considered an exploit obviously.

Swim.6830:

Not sure why you suggested an ability that affects all builds to be nerfed while stating that only this build is an issue…

The whole point of Eles is to be able to utilise all the stats since they can’t excel in any.

The Lightning Whip thing should be considered an exploit obviously.

I’m gonna assume you are talking about battle sigil in which case you must not have read the whole post because I specifically stated that it wouldn’t affect only this build and that its a problem with other builds too.

a t s e.9614:

Ofc it needs a nerf espcially the amulet. I think PVT or zerker D/D is balanced its the kitten amulet that is broken.

Seems very poorly thought out in my opinion, to suggest nerfing an entire amulet for one single build on one single profession.

I’ve only read the first post, but that’s all I need to see right now..

Phant you’re really off base. Why would you ever suggest nerfing a class based on available armor? You need to nerf the armor.

Was D/D overpowered before celestial hit the scene? Honestly ask yourself that. No. It wasn’t.

Celestial is and was the issue. Celestial needs nerfing across the board or removed in PvP. Simple.

Strength runes need the same. So do balth runes.

It is upsetting when people suggest nerfing your class based on one set of armor which makes it overpowered. That’s an obvious miscarriage of balance, and I hope others realize that.

So one last thing, if people are abusing macros to heal more, that’s obviously a bug that needs fixed. Don’t put it in your vendetta for more nerfs.

Mbelch.9028:

I’ve only read the first post, but that’s all I need to see right now..

Phant you’re really off base. Why would you ever suggest nerfing a class based on available armor? You need to nerf the armor.

Was D/D overpowered before celestial hit the scene? Honestly ask yourself that. No. It wasn’t.

Celestial is and was the issue. Celestial needs nerfing across the board or removed in PvP. Simple.

Strength runes need the same. So do balth runes.

It is upsetting when people suggest nerfing your class based on one set of armor which makes it overpowered. That’s an obvious miscarriage of balance, and I hope others realize that.

So one last thing, if people are abusing macros to heal more, that’s obviously a bug that needs fixed. Don’t put it in your vendetta for more nerfs.

Seems very poorly thought out in my opinion, to suggest nerfing an entire amulet for one single build on one single profession.

^ that makes more sense than anything I have seen in this thread.

Edit: Ele is a celestial class it make perfect sense celestial works best on them.

Mbelch.9028:

I’ve only read the first post, but that’s all I need to see right now..

Phant you’re really off base. Why would you ever suggest nerfing a class based on available armor? You need to nerf the armor.

Was D/D overpowered before celestial hit the scene? Honestly ask yourself that. No. It wasn’t.

Celestial is and was the issue. Celestial needs nerfing across the board or removed in PvP. Simple.

Strength runes need the same. So do balth runes.

It is upsetting when people suggest nerfing your class based on one set of armor which makes it overpowered. That’s an obvious miscarriage of balance, and I hope others realize that.

So one last thing, if people are abusing macros to heal more, that’s obviously a bug that needs fixed. Don’t put it in your vendetta for more nerfs.

I wasn’t off base anywhere, I didn’t actually suggest to change the ele in any specific way. I gave the options possible. One of them was the celestial amulet combined with the battle sigil and certain runes.

I give options because Anet clearly has never, and possibly never will be, on the same page as me or a lot of the other player base.

I’m on the exact same page as you and if I were in charge of balance I would do it. but I’m not so guess what I’m appealing to what arena net is trying to do. Because I’ve seen countless people try spamming forums about where they think the game should be taken non stop and it’s just a waste of breath.

So I just give options and leave it at that. People don’t abuse macros or a bug it’s simply using stow weapon to heal more with signet of restoration. You can do it with any weapon set on ele it just becomes the most powerful on dagger.

You’re making your post very personal against me and it’s really stupid, just stop.

Mbelch.9028:

Phant you’re really off base. Why would you ever suggest nerfing a class based on available armor? You need to nerf the armor.

Was D/D overpowered before celestial hit the scene? Honestly ask yourself that. No. It wasn’t.

Celestial is and was the issue. Celestial needs nerfing across the board or removed in PvP. Simple.

Strength runes need the same. So do balth runes.

Celestial wasn’t the only change that happened that patch. D/D also got:
- Cleansing Water and SoR un-nerfed (rightfully so)
- Blast on frozen burst
- Evade on burning speed
- Strength runes
- Sigil stacking (so you can take battle + another on-swap/crit sigil)

Celestial ONLY works due to might-stacking. I don’t think its bad to keep it available as a bruiser build, but stacking so much might so easily should be reduced. Take away some might on battle sigil (esp. considering how much it helps other builds that are similar), which accounts for ~10.5 stacks of might when you take strength runes. If that isn’t enough, take away the blast on frozen burst.

Those would only changes that would EVER be needed.

Out of all the suggestions, I would have to say removing the blast on frozen burst is definitly not one I am in favor of. Without traits and utilities, dd only has 2 blast finishers, one both on long cool downs and one on a really long cast time so the set doesn’t really have many ways to combo with its fields.
Battle sigil nerf is fine imo, reduce the duration of the might a bit, keep in mind though it is competing with strength sigil as they do essentially the same thing just with different conditions. I would say a strength sigil with max precision should stack about the same as a battle sigil where the user swaps constantly, maybe a little more.

Nerf strength runes and then lets see where balance is at.

Except celestial isn’t only extremely strong on just a D/D elementalist. It is also strong on a Hambow, Rifle Engineers, Axebow and probably an axe Ranger soon. Any class that can stack lots of might with celestial, instead of diluting their damage, both condi and power suddenly are doing a whole lot of damage. This also seems to work with classes whom are already meta to begin with excluding the usage of the amulet.

I don’t think a D/D Elementalist needs to be nerfed per say, I think might duration on things like the sigil of battle and strength/hoelbrak runes need to be nerfed slightly. Or maybe the sigil of battle should only give you 2 stacks of might. I don’t even think celestial should be nerfed, although that is definitely a route. I think boon stripping should be stronger on classes like Mesmer and Necro and made more viable. Or at least more of a downside of just mindlessly stacking might. Maybe more of a penalty if might stacks are corrupted?

There are many ways you can play around with this. Although I tend to lean towards better, more viable options for boon stripping/corrupting and a bigger penalty for corrupting stacks. And reducing might duration of the runes, or removing 1 might stack from the sigil of battle.

Sagat.3285:

Mbelch.9028:

I’ve only read the first post, but that’s all I need to see right now..

Phant you’re really off base. Why would you ever suggest nerfing a class based on available armor? You need to nerf the armor.

Was D/D overpowered before celestial hit the scene? Honestly ask yourself that. No. It wasn’t.

Celestial is and was the issue. Celestial needs nerfing across the board or removed in PvP. Simple.

Strength runes need the same. So do balth runes.

It is upsetting when people suggest nerfing your class based on one set of armor which makes it overpowered. That’s an obvious miscarriage of balance, and I hope others realize that.

So one last thing, if people are abusing macros to heal more, that’s obviously a bug that needs fixed. Don’t put it in your vendetta for more nerfs.

Seems very poorly thought out in my opinion, to suggest nerfing an entire amulet for one single build on one single profession.

^ that makes more sense than anything I have seen in this thread.

Edit: Ele is a celestial class it make perfect sense celestial works best on them.

It’s too strong on eng as well… basically the classes that can make use of all the stats it’s too strong on. You can go balth with eng and not stack might and it’s still brutal. That means the ammy itself gives too many stats and it’s not related to might stacking.

Aberrant.6749:

Sagat.3285:

Mbelch.9028:

I’ve only read the first post, but that’s all I need to see right now..

Phant you’re really off base. Why would you ever suggest nerfing a class based on available armor? You need to nerf the armor.

Was D/D overpowered before celestial hit the scene? Honestly ask yourself that. No. It wasn’t.

Celestial is and was the issue. Celestial needs nerfing across the board or removed in PvP. Simple.

Strength runes need the same. So do balth runes.

It is upsetting when people suggest nerfing your class based on one set of armor which makes it overpowered. That’s an obvious miscarriage of balance, and I hope others realize that.

So one last thing, if people are abusing macros to heal more, that’s obviously a bug that needs fixed. Don’t put it in your vendetta for more nerfs.

Seems very poorly thought out in my opinion, to suggest nerfing an entire amulet for one single build on one single profession.

^ that makes more sense than anything I have seen in this thread.

Edit: Ele is a celestial class it make perfect sense celestial works best on them.

It’s too strong on eng as well… basically the classes that can make use of all the stats it’s too strong on. You can go balth with eng and not stack might and it’s still brutal. That means the ammy itself gives too many stats and it’s not related to might stacking.

It’s related to nobody on your squad able to remove the might #not1v1game

Aberrant.6749:

Sagat.3285:

Mbelch.9028:

I’ve only read the first post, but that’s all I need to see right now..

Phant you’re really off base. Why would you ever suggest nerfing a class based on available armor? You need to nerf the armor.

Was D/D overpowered before celestial hit the scene? Honestly ask yourself that. No. It wasn’t.

Celestial is and was the issue. Celestial needs nerfing across the board or removed in PvP. Simple.

Strength runes need the same. So do balth runes.

It is upsetting when people suggest nerfing your class based on one set of armor which makes it overpowered. That’s an obvious miscarriage of balance, and I hope others realize that.

So one last thing, if people are abusing macros to heal more, that’s obviously a bug that needs fixed. Don’t put it in your vendetta for more nerfs.

Seems very poorly thought out in my opinion, to suggest nerfing an entire amulet for one single build on one single profession.

^ that makes more sense than anything I have seen in this thread.

Edit: Ele is a celestial class it make perfect sense celestial works best on them.

It’s too strong on eng as well… basically the classes that can make use of all the stats it’s too strong on. You can go balth with eng and not stack might and it’s still brutal. That means the ammy itself gives too many stats and it’s not related to might stacking.

Balth Celestial in pvp doesn’t sound that good. I’ve never seen anyone do that. Might as well go rabid on engi at that point.

Phantaram.1265:

Mbelch.9028:

I’ve only read the first post, but that’s all I need to see right now..

Phant you’re really off base. Why would you ever suggest nerfing a class based on available armor? You need to nerf the armor.

Was D/D overpowered before celestial hit the scene? Honestly ask yourself that. No. It wasn’t.

Celestial is and was the issue. Celestial needs nerfing across the board or removed in PvP. Simple.

Strength runes need the same. So do balth runes.

It is upsetting when people suggest nerfing your class based on one set of armor which makes it overpowered. That’s an obvious miscarriage of balance, and I hope others realize that.

So one last thing, if people are abusing macros to heal more, that’s obviously a bug that needs fixed. Don’t put it in your vendetta for more nerfs.

I wasn’t off base anywhere, I didn’t actually suggest to change the ele in any specific way. I gave the options possible. One of them was the celestial amulet combined with the battle sigil and certain runes.

I give options because Anet clearly has never, and possibly never will be, on the same page as me or a lot of the other player base.

I’m on the exact same page as you and if I were in charge of balance I would do it. but I’m not so guess what I’m appealing to what arena net is trying to do. Because I’ve seen countless people try spamming forums about where they think the game should be taken non stop and it’s just a waste of breath.

So I just give options and leave it at that. People don’t abuse macros or a bug it’s simply using stow weapon to heal more with signet of restoration. You can do it with any weapon set on ele it just becomes the most powerful on dagger.

You’re making your post very personal against me and it’s really stupid, just stop.

My post isn’t personal, I don’t even know you. I do take it seriously when anybody suggests nerfing a profession’s skills JUST based on a recently changed amulet.

It’s the obvious, like you said, and logical solution to just revert the celestial amulet or shave it to be in line.

You can’t say you weren’t suggesting these changes, as if you wrote them, you’re writing them as a possibility you might endorse. I think that’s off base, as I think you also realize some of those ideas are in another universe.

—

To the person who wrote to me saying why nerf an amulet based on one profession/one build…. Several classes utilize this amulet overly well, and those that don’t won’t be affected by a change to celestial. Engineer, warrior, ele, Mesmer and guardian make great or more than great use of this amulet. There’s a host of builds just based off this, and it’s obviously a point of contention in the community. It deserves a second look given the nerf to crit dmg.

—

Blackbeard, that was a case of mistaken identity, I’ll PM you, but I still disagree with what you’re saying.

Aberrant.6749:

Sagat.3285:

Mbelch.9028:

I’ve only read the first post, but that’s all I need to see right now..

Phant you’re really off base. Why would you ever suggest nerfing a class based on available armor? You need to nerf the armor.

Was D/D overpowered before celestial hit the scene? Honestly ask yourself that. No. It wasn’t.

Celestial is and was the issue. Celestial needs nerfing across the board or removed in PvP. Simple.

Strength runes need the same. So do balth runes.

It is upsetting when people suggest nerfing your class based on one set of armor which makes it overpowered. That’s an obvious miscarriage of balance, and I hope others realize that.

So one last thing, if people are abusing macros to heal more, that’s obviously a bug that needs fixed. Don’t put it in your vendetta for more nerfs.

Seems very poorly thought out in my opinion, to suggest nerfing an entire amulet for one single build on one single profession.

^ that makes more sense than anything I have seen in this thread.

Edit: Ele is a celestial class it make perfect sense celestial works best on them.

It’s too strong on eng as well… basically the classes that can make use of all the stats it’s too strong on. You can go balth with eng and not stack might and it’s still brutal. That means the ammy itself gives too many stats and it’s not related to might stacking.

Indeed. Although when I spoke I meant to write runes of Hoelbrak, not Balth.

Re you kidding e taking away blast from froze burst ?
Really cause one build you want to crile all d/x ele builds wtf ?
I seee thare are celestial wr,engi,mesmers necro .
Only 2classes that dont profit are thiefs and guards .
Instead of nerfing give thiefs and guards legit build with celestial,instead of nerfing give all professions diversity in build and weapons and we might move from this 2 year blind spot.
Nerf amulet but dont tuch ele skills, if anything some off hand skills and utilities need buff not nerf..

The battle sigil nerf would help in nerfing the engi build but I do not think it would help much with d/d ele. I think the blast finish itself needs a nerf, it is incredibly easy to pull off and on some builds allows them to stack insane amount of might. Might should be a coordinated burst boon not something stacked to 25 by going through a basic rotation.

Drake’s breath is a problem because of the might stacks, burning with base cele stats is not to dangerous.

Lightning whip just sound like the programmers need to change how the skill functions with the heal in-order to require a full cast of the skill.

OP is a bit extreme with suggestions. You want to nerf profession skills just because it attunes well with the celestial amulet? Take away the celestial amulet, and those skills are not as effective. Don’t be stupid and even suggest that. It’ll nerf this class back into a point where people laugh at you for even playing one. Seriously, think before you speak.

I would probably tone down sigil of battle’s duration from 20s to 15s, and rune of strength’s might duration from 45% to 30%.

Those changes might not seem much at first glance, but they add up the longer the battle goes, making it harder to maintain 20+ stacks.

Anyways, the feature patch will bring eles that can apply 25 stacks of vulnerability with a single skill, and offer on-demand 6k healing every 15 seconds… :P

Phantaram.1265:

Aberrant.6749:

Sagat.3285:

Mbelch.9028:

I’ve only read the first post, but that’s all I need to see right now..

Phant you’re really off base. Why would you ever suggest nerfing a class based on available armor? You need to nerf the armor.

Was D/D overpowered before celestial hit the scene? Honestly ask yourself that. No. It wasn’t.

Celestial is and was the issue. Celestial needs nerfing across the board or removed in PvP. Simple.

Strength runes need the same. So do balth runes.

It is upsetting when people suggest nerfing your class based on one set of armor which makes it overpowered. That’s an obvious miscarriage of balance, and I hope others realize that.

So one last thing, if people are abusing macros to heal more, that’s obviously a bug that needs fixed. Don’t put it in your vendetta for more nerfs.

Seems very poorly thought out in my opinion, to suggest nerfing an entire amulet for one single build on one single profession.

^ that makes more sense than anything I have seen in this thread.

Edit: Ele is a celestial class it make perfect sense celestial works best on them.

It’s too strong on eng as well… basically the classes that can make use of all the stats it’s too strong on. You can go balth with eng and not stack might and it’s still brutal. That means the ammy itself gives too many stats and it’s not related to might stacking.

Balth Celestial in pvp doesn’t sound that good. I’ve never seen anyone do that. Might as well go rabid on engi at that point.

Go try it, it works well. The burn damage is strong and celestial helps hedge against anti-cond. With rabid you’re left with bomb auto attack at best for direct damage and that’s reliant on your opponent being stupid enough to stand around and just eat them.

I am really surprised at the lack of ele white knights coming here to defend this spec. When people claim that warrior or thief is OP, its always met with strong resistance from fanboys who attacks and ask people to l2p and claiming that their class is fine and balanced.

Lifestealer.4910:

I am really surprised at the lack of ele white knights coming here to defend this spec. When people claim that warrior or thief is OP, its always met with strong resistance from fanboys who attacks and ask people to l2p and claiming that their class is fine and balanced.

Yea, plus, Phantaram is actually one of the best elem in NA.

Lettuce.2945:

OP is a bit extreme with suggestions. You want to nerf profession skills just because it attunes well with the celestial amulet? Take away the celestial amulet, and those skills are not as effective. Don’t be stupid and even suggest that. It’ll nerf this class back into a point where people laugh at you for even playing one. Seriously, think before you speak.

Phantaram is one of the best Elementalists on the gw2 pvp scene. I think he knows more about what he’s talking about than you do.

Celestial Ele is fine. I already have see their points strong and weak. Some players just need l2p.

JETWING.2759:

Some players just need l2p.

/facepalm

I think celes ele is fine . the lack of build and long cd useful skills already a pain with ele .Balance ele not a solution ,these other classes is .
Fun facts :

1. : Phantaram said he’s dont want to use d/d ele back on his stream before Ready up ep 20.
2. :There is alot of good ele beside Phantaram out there ,they just dont streaming.Phantaram is a rare guy who stream with ele just like back in the day when ele meta no one stream a warrior pvp or solo roam.
3. :Sorry for my grammar cuz im not live in US or somewhere else speak “engrish” usually.

Who did ever use celestial before this?
No1!
Im more inclined to give guards and theifs some buffs so that they can use it as ele can and have more build diversity ,and nerf or remove battle sigil and nerf over all dmg for bunker builds/amulets…
It is true how ever that celestial gives highest amount of raw stats…
But if you play d/f ele and with any other amulet than celestial that blast on frozen burst is needed cause,
wht is left to you in terms of finishers is
-comet blast which i would love to see some1 time perfectly to that fire line field u have from burning speed,
and i can blast my magnetic wave and lose one of the best def skills for some might .

So yeah lets all play d/d ele ,lets all play H/B wr and s/d thiefs and nerf and buff weapon and traits according to wishes of players that use them best since they “know” most about that class,hell yeah ….
Having good hand reactions ,fast pc and Internet connection doesn’t make u in to Ainstain or some all knowing Oracle

I’d like to mention a few things some people may have forgotten about the elementalist, I’ll make these points blunt:

-Elementalist was very weak in Spvp before the improved celestial amulet was added

-Celestial got buffed and gave the elementalist the defensive sustain you’re used to seeing today

-No one complained about celestial before the buff to stats (but rather laughed at the idea of using this stat combo!)

-Str runes + celestial amulet is the reason you see good damage come from a great bunker

One more thing I’d like to throw out there; I find the zerker amulet makes some fights easier than celestial. For example, when I fight a well played shatter mesmer, I have much better luck with zerkers because I don’t get many opportunities to land burst on them, so I need to finish them off quickly before they drop me like a fly.

The point I’m trying to make is celestial isn’t always the best choice… Although it sure is pretty kitten forgiving with the great healing it provides an elementalist, on the contrary some builds have no problem fighting a celestial bunker ele. Is the answer to our problems truly to remove the celestial amulet? I don’t think so. I would rather see the some of the defensive stats celestial provides removed and then placed into offensive stats.

Phantaram.1265:

Swim.6830:

Not sure why you suggested an ability that affects all builds to be nerfed while stating that only this build is an issue…

The whole point of Eles is to be able to utilise all the stats since they can’t excel in any.

The Lightning Whip thing should be considered an exploit obviously.

I’m gonna assume you are talking about battle sigil in which case you must not have read the whole post because I specifically stated that it wouldn’t affect only this build and that its a problem with other builds too.

“Drakes Breath – This ability is an absolutely huge chunk of all the damage a d/d ele does”

nearlight.3064:

Lettuce.2945:

OP is a bit extreme with suggestions. You want to nerf profession skills just because it attunes well with the celestial amulet? Take away the celestial amulet, and those skills are not as effective. Don’t be stupid and even suggest that. It’ll nerf this class back into a point where people laugh at you for even playing one. Seriously, think before you speak.

Phantaram is one of the best Elementalists on the gw2 pvp scene. I think he knows more about what he’s talking about than you do.

The best football players rarely become the best coaches.

a t s e.9614:

Ofc it needs a nerf espcially the amulet. I think PVT or zerker D/D is balanced its the kitten amulet that is broken.

An amulett that gives a medium amount to all statts and which is available to all classes is broken? Srsly? I mean really? Lol? If anything in this world could point out class inbalance in GW2 it would be this amulett. Everything and everyone should be balanced around this amulett.

Anet should finally remove the different HP tables for the classes. I demanded this after the first BWE, my argument was: " it would make balancing more easy and if you let those different HP tables ingame, it will cause problems forever". Told you so.

A d/d celestial Ele is not that tanky at all, besides they have zero ranged options and only burst cleansing. Put some confusion/torment/poison/chill on them after they leave water attument and profit.

I think nerfing Battle Sigil would be the best option there, to be honest. It’s monstrously powerful and knocking it down to 2 stacks of Might would be a simple and easy fix, and help reduce the easy Might Stacking that goes on with the class.

Tell me please why cant other classes stack might with this sigil?
Because thier traitline with boonduration suck? Or because eles are almost forced to use arcane-line? It is still a class balance problem so do me a favor an stop asking for nerfs to equippment everyone has access to just because youre to lazy to abuse it srsly ……

I agree with Phantaram. The most obvious location for nerf would be
Drake’s Breath
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Drake%27s_Breath

That skill does really high damage considering its very low cool down. In WvWvW the condi duration foods allow it to pump out very long lasting burning.

I suggest either increase the cooldown to 10 seconds or reducing the direct damage by 33% and it should do only 4×2 s burns.

The combination of sigil of battle + strength or Hoelbrak runes is problematic for other professions as well. Engineer and warrior can also stack tons of might using them.

Deniara Devious.3948:

I agree with Phantaram. The most obvious location for nerf would be
Drake’s Breath
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Drake%27s_Breath

That skill does really high damage considering its very low cool down. In WvWvW the condi duration foods allow it to pump out very long lasting burning.

I suggest either increase the cooldown to 10 seconds or reducing the direct damage by 33% and it should do only 4×2 s burns.

The combination of sigil of battle + strength or Hoelbrak runes is problematic for other professions as well. Engineer and warrior can also stack tons of might using them.

I think we should think about going and nerfing Drake’s Breath. The Ele has little access to offensive condition pressure outside of burning (and I guess Doom Sigil but whatever), and the ability to deal “hybrid” damage is supposed to be one of the core appeals of the Elementalist. I think knocking down Sigil of Battle to 2 stacks of Might would help tone down not only the Ele, but a lot of specs that abuse the sigil to run around with way too much Might at all times.

Poplolita.2638:

Lifestealer.4910:

I am really surprised at the lack of ele white knights coming here to defend this spec. When people claim that warrior or thief is OP, its always met with strong resistance from fanboys who attacks and ask people to l2p and claiming that their class is fine and balanced.

Yea, plus, Phantaram is actually one of the best elem in NA.

To both of you.. One problem with the “PvP heroes” is they don’t know balance as well as everybody thinks and many people just take their word as law. I don’t actually know phant, as I don’t watch live streams, and I haven’t seen him dueling/anything like that.

Just basing my knowledge of balance and the ele class, his suggestions weren’t indicative of what you’re saying.

Grimreaper.5370:

I’d like to mention a few things some people may have forgotten about the elementalist, I’ll make these points blunt:

-Elementalist was very weak in Spvp before the improved celestial amulet was added

-Celestial got buffed and gave the elementalist the defensive sustain you’re used to seeing today

-No one complained about celestial before the buff to stats (but rather laughed at the idea of using this stat combo!)

-Str runes + celestial amulet is the reason you see good damage come from a great bunker

One more thing I’d like to throw out there; I find the zerker amulet makes some fights easier than celestial. For example, when I fight a well played shatter mesmer, I have much better luck with zerkers because I don’t get many opportunities to land burst on them, so I need to finish them off quickly before they drop me like a fly.

The point I’m trying to make is celestial isn’t always the best choice… Although it sure is pretty kitten forgiving with the great healing it provides an elementalist, on the contrary some builds have no problem fighting a celestial bunker ele. Is the answer to our problems truly to remove the celestial amulet? I don’t think so. I would rather see the some of the defensive stats celestial provides removed and then placed into offensive stats.

At least you’re on my wavelength. Thanks for typing it better than I have the patience to.

Decrease the amount of Condition Damage received per Might stack from 35 to 15, while maintaining the same Power. This will nerf D/D Elementalists and Hambow Warriors, while still keeping Might-Stacking a viable strategy.
A lot of the dmg from D/D Elementalist comes from Poison and Burning, with with less condition dmg I believe it would balance D/D Ele.
This would also fix “Drakes Breath” a skill that is not OP in ANY way. Nerfing it would be ridiculous since it sucks without any kinds of condition damage.
I do not know of the “Stow Weapon Lightning Whip” but it sounds more of a bug that needs fixing, rather than something that needs to be balanced.

KrisHQ.4719:

Decrease the amount of Condition Damage received per Might stack from 35 to 15, while maintaining the same Power.

Very poor proposition. Why? Ele is a poor condition class and rely mostly on dps and so far the best class to profit from healing power and boons.

After reading all the post here I’m more on the Arcana side : ele is kind of forced to play with that trait line what some seem to find troublesome is that it is related to boon duration(nothing wrong with runes,sigils or amulet) and affect all elements. Alternative? Why do you have no one on your squad to remove the boons???

KrisHQ.4719:

Decrease the amount of Condition Damage received per Might stack from 35 to 15, while maintaining the same Power. This will nerf D/D Elementalists and Hambow Warriors, while still keeping Might-Stacking a viable strategy.
A lot of the dmg from D/D Elementalist comes from Poison and Burning, with with less condition dmg I believe it would balance D/D Ele.
This would also fix “Drakes Breath” a skill that is not OP in ANY way. Nerfing it would be ridiculous since it sucks without any kinds of condition damage.

Nerfing might stack condi power from 35 to 15 would really destroy some other builds e.g. the HGH pistol/pistol or pistol/shield engineer, which depends on getting huge stacks of mights with HGH grandmaster trait + elixirs (and does condi dmg).

Drake’s breath has a really high damage multiplier and long lasting burn considering its very low cool down. I know it is a channeled skill, but if you compare it with 100 blades it does more combined damage (assuming average stats, not full berserker vs glass armor, then 100 blades of course wins). Drake’s breath really benefits from having mixed stats. I know that since it is a channeled skill, it can be kited, just like 100 blades (you don’t need to explain me the basics).

OP is correct in what he says but it already confirmed to not be changed so the article in too late and therefore pointless (unfortunately).

Any changes to this will be probably around march 2015. At earliest.

nearlight.3064:

Lettuce.2945:

OP is a bit extreme with suggestions. You want to nerf profession skills just because it attunes well with the celestial amulet? Take away the celestial amulet, and those skills are not as effective. Don’t be stupid and even suggest that. It’ll nerf this class back into a point where people laugh at you for even playing one. Seriously, think before you speak.

Phantaram is one of the best Elementalists on the gw2 pvp scene. I think he knows more about what he’s talking about than you do.

Just because he streams and I don’t doesn’t mean he knows more. facepalms I’ve seen better eles, don’t get it twisted. His suggestions really does indicate that he doesn’t know the full extent of what he’s suggesting. And your supporting it indicates that you don’t as well. I didn’t disagree that it does need some kind of nerfing, but his suggestion would nerf it so hard, we would be ridiculed for playing an ele. I noticed you also pulled the same thing in the mesmer thread by referring to Helseth. Seems like twitch players = pro players, anyone else who doesn’t stream is invalid and there’s no better player out there. That’s your logic. Nice one there. facepalms

So tone down celestial amulet and work on battle sigil might stacking, and should balance ele. But I still think it’s a little stupid to rework a sigil just for one profession. Cele amulet on the other hand is just generally OP across various professions like warriors, eles, engis, spirit rangers, etc.

Mbelch.9028:

Poplolita.2638:

Lifestealer.4910:

I am really surprised at the lack of ele white knights coming here to defend this spec. When people claim that warrior or thief is OP, its always met with strong resistance from fanboys who attacks and ask people to l2p and claiming that their class is fine and balanced.

Yea, plus, Phantaram is actually one of the best elem in NA.

To both of you.. One problem with the “PvP heroes” is they don’t know balance as well as everybody thinks and many people just take their word as law. I don’t actually know phant, as I don’t watch live streams, and I haven’t seen him dueling/anything like that.

Just basing my knowledge of balance and the ele class, his suggestions weren’t indicative of what you’re saying.

Dude, did you read some of the reply? Some of them were telling him to l2p.

Edit: See poster below…