Guild Wars 2

LordByron.8369:

You should specify wich mode are you talking about:

PvE ele is HIGH risk, high reward at moment:
I.E. ANYONE can melee lupi on a warrior, not so many can melee lupi on an ele.
That is because Warrior is extremely forgiving, being able to facetank a couple of strong hits, and healing back without even pressing a button

Ele gets oneshot by so many Attacks in pve that is extremely difficult to play unless the content itself is extremely easy.
Tell me how often do you see a FGS in high level fractals.
The issue is obviously the content, but nerf is Always the lazy way anet chooses.

---

WWW:

Thieves and torpedo warriors are OP and will be almost untouched.
DD celestial ele is trash… You need to be able to engage/disengage and strong defense mechanic at will to be good at roaming.
Ele has none of that. anyone saying the opposite should prove it, and i can prove i can escape them even with a mesmer.

Healing is just half effective due to the increased damage and condition spam comparing to PvP, but this is a concept too hard to grasp for some

In Zerg WWW ele is either a waterbot (low risk/0 reward) or if dps is extremely difficult to play for not even a strong reward. (read unwanted and considered unviable)
But will be nerfed so will be high risk/low reward.

InPvP DD celestial seems strong due to reduced stats, no food exc.
But obviously the need of the few is more important of the needs of the many because of esports TM

We are actually talking about tpvp. And I don’t think it needs to point out.

And may i ask what exactly oneshot eles? do they also oneshot necro or thief(lets not talk mesmer here since sword #2)

“DD celestial ele is trash… You need to be able to engage/disengage and strong defense mechanic at will to be good at roaming.”
D/D ele is exactly the build which has strong defense and could engage/disengage easily. It’s same par with war .only thief is better than them .(Dont say pu mesmer here they cant easily engage).So i dont see any point here.
“Healing is just half effective due to the increased damage and condition spam comparing to PvP, but this is a concept too hard to grasp for some”
yeah , 1.8 healing power for wvw is same level as pvp cleric amulet.

musu.9205:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

musu.9205:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

shimmerless.4560:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

nearlight.3064:

Well yeah that is true. It’s just for mesmers, helseth suggests that they won’t even need PU, since torment spam will let them faceroll through everything. It’s too strong of a condition to just slap on an autoattack.

No it isn’t. Only on Mesmers is that true because the clone system lets them up to quadruple their condition output. If the clones aren’t applying it, then it can be balanced on an auto.

Heck, even if it was on almost any other weapon, it wouldn’t be so bad, but Scepter clone generation is quite fast.

Have you actually played a Mesmer even once? Are you posting from planet Mars?

Yeah, I do play my Mesmer rather frequently and I use Scepter on my shatter build because it generates clones much more rapidly than any other weapon.

scepter has a low AA speed also barely hit things which is why it needs buff to begin with. Low AA speed is same to scepter clone too .
The thing is we dont have chance to test this yet but problem is anet did balance patch slowly(thanks living story group ) and never reacted to balance issue fast(free signet for war has been used in TOL and no words from anet ,no fix in a month)

Low AA speed, but a cycle of the auto is still faster than any clone generation cooldown. The projectiles home, so hitting is not as big an issue as you make it out to be.

Don’t get me wrong, the scepter AA needs a buff, but Torment on Ether Bolt is not what it needs. Ether Blast is fine getting Torment.

I agree with this but if only ether blast gets buffed ,scepter will stay useless .So i think we need something else beside a damage condition on scepter (even i think it wont make pu condi spec op in actual tpvp).But something different from staff , maybe chill/cripple.

Chill is too strong to have on any auto-attack. Honestly, the biggest buff would just be increasing the overall speed of the chain to make the scepter clone’s strength (quantity) stronger. And yeah, Torment on Ether Blast could get a longer duration than 4 seconds. I’d say at least 6 seconds base.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

musu.9205:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

musu.9205:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

shimmerless.4560:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

nearlight.3064:

Well yeah that is true. It’s just for mesmers, helseth suggests that they won’t even need PU, since torment spam will let them faceroll through everything. It’s too strong of a condition to just slap on an autoattack.

No it isn’t. Only on Mesmers is that true because the clone system lets them up to quadruple their condition output. If the clones aren’t applying it, then it can be balanced on an auto.

Heck, even if it was on almost any other weapon, it wouldn’t be so bad, but Scepter clone generation is quite fast.

Have you actually played a Mesmer even once? Are you posting from planet Mars?

Yeah, I do play my Mesmer rather frequently and I use Scepter on my shatter build because it generates clones much more rapidly than any other weapon.

scepter has a low AA speed also barely hit things which is why it needs buff to begin with. Low AA speed is same to scepter clone too .
The thing is we dont have chance to test this yet but problem is anet did balance patch slowly(thanks living story group ) and never reacted to balance issue fast(free signet for war has been used in TOL and no words from anet ,no fix in a month)

Low AA speed, but a cycle of the auto is still faster than any clone generation cooldown. The projectiles home, so hitting is not as big an issue as you make it out to be.

Don’t get me wrong, the scepter AA needs a buff, but Torment on Ether Bolt is not what it needs. Ether Blast is fine getting Torment.

I agree with this but if only ether blast gets buffed ,scepter will stay useless .So i think we need something else beside a damage condition on scepter (even i think it wont make pu condi spec op in actual tpvp).But something different from staff , maybe chill/cripple.

Chill is too strong to have on any auto-attack. Honestly, the biggest buff would just be increasing the overall speed of the chain to make the scepter clone’s strength (quantity) stronger. And yeah, Torment on Ether Blast could get a longer duration than 4 seconds. I’d say at least 6 seconds base.

Random 1s chill from chill/cripple/weakness on first attack of AA chain , so that mesmer wont perma chill anyone if you are worrying about this . It’s like staff aa with soft cc condition every 5 second

There are a lot of conflicting opinions in his thread, a lot of which I really don’t think are accurate.

I think issues with these types of threads are that people come in from different viewpoints (WvW roaming, hot join, solo and team Q) and different classes and always think one thing is low risk when another is not.

On some level you can point to any class and build and accuse it of being low risk.

nearlight.3064:

What are your thoughts on the future meta, given that most of these changes effect underused skills and traits, many of which will remain underused, or simply encourage low risk-high reward builds to flourish?

I think Anet predicted the Adrenaline reaction as well as the Torment reaction. I might not agree with everything they do, but I do think they have a plan.

I don’t think the world will crash and burn. I think the meta will adapt, and not necessarily into something bad.

There are decent condition cleanse already and we know they’ll buff Elixir C and Spirit Bow. This patch could raise condition awareness, and it could introduce some interesting drawbacks …or not. I guess we have to wait and see. In worst case they’ll just revert the torment. No biggie if you ask me.

—
Edit: s/Frost/Spirit/

Mayama.1854:

Necro death shroud will always give them an advantage in 1v1 but sucks in teamfights.

Necro is not a “good” duelling class. The necro is too much vulnerable to cc to be that and has very limited access to boons. I would take 1000 times a warrior over a necro if i wanted to duel. Of course you can duel with every class but depending on your choice it can be easier or more difficult. Necro for me shines in a team.

I would not be scared for Necro changes, they said that dagger aa will get a cleave and that they will buff survivability through utilities (whatever that means and whoever needed that), so i expect nothing too toxic here. But to be honest i am thankful if at the end of they day they don´t kitten somethings completely up with the necro.

And regarding Mesmer torment lolspam, really, i don´t know what some people smoke at Anet but they should stop it. This will get horrible, seems like mesmers got their dhuumfire.

Bhawb.7408:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Your concerns about Mesmer PU are laughable. /ignore thread and move on.

If Helseth has concerns about Mesmers being buffed, I will pretty much blindly believe him.

How Helseth sees Scepter clone hits being
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=27tWYYs0z94#t=50

What Scepter clones actually look like in practice. Watch for the clone bolts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QnRg6M56ABw#t=65

musu.9205:

We are actually talking about tpvp. And I don’t think it needs to point out.

And may i ask what exactly oneshot eles? do they also oneshot necro or thief(lets not talk mesmer here since sword #2)

“DD celestial ele is trash… You need to be able to engage/disengage and strong defense mechanic at will to be good at roaming.”
D/D ele is exactly the build which has strong defense and could engage/disengage easily. It’s same par with war .only thief is better than them .(Dont say pu mesmer here they cant easily engage).So i dont see any point here.
“Healing is just half effective due to the increased damage and condition spam comparing to PvP, but this is a concept too hard to grasp for some”
yeah , 1.8 healing power for wvw is same level as pvp cleric amulet.

There is a huge issue of pvp players thinking PvP and WWW are similar.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQJAoImAAA2GeRbA-TpQSgAA7PAWGAA

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQJAoImAAA2GeRbA-TVRSwATU+RTPAg9Hgq+jIlgBAOA+tvBw5nf+5nfe/+7v/+7vlCQPlRA-w

Pow2740
63%
220 crit damage

Is different to me from
Pow 2313
55% crit rate
200 crit damage.

That just to strat with BASE stats.
You can t really recover as well as PvP

For condition a +40% condi duration food alone is huge.

Then there is the fact of the MAPS and number of players.
Ele can t really jump in and out of a fight, expecially when opponent has no reason to actually stay near a point in WWW.

Also ele can’t (no it simply can t if you says the opposite i can prove it with a warrior or a mesmer, or will ask a friend with a thief) prevent opponent to flee.

And for profession with low cooldown fleeing is a victory because they can come back stronger than the ele.

They also can disengage when opponent has reinforcements, and ele can t do nothing to prevent it (even if you hit with every single control skill you have).

Really, i m roaming on daily basis recently… WWW balance is competely differnet from pvp and some professions are ridiculous.
SUSTAINED Mobility or stealth are main key to success.

Not to mention as a DD ele is totally uncapable of Killing many tanky builds unless going full DPS.

Can a thief or a warrior sustain a 1VS5 in PvP?
well in WWW can 1VS10 and be effective (that is not Killing 10, but slowing ,10 people, tagging WPs, Killing low HP players, doliaks supplies, camps etc etc etc).

As i said the only thing that makes pvp players get wrng ideas is mot www roamers are unexperienced so you happen to kill any profession….

If you still deny it… there is a reason if before RTL nerf ele was a decent scouting profession along thief, and suddenly that role disappeared.
You can’t even reach the zerg if you try, after the rune nerf.

BrunoBRS.5178:

P/D thief complaints, i won’t comment on that, but i’ll stop you right there on the venom share change. if we had 2, maybe 3 venoms that could apply decent condi damage, you’d have a point. but at most, the party members will get 50 damage per tick from a single venom.

not just that, but P/D practically relies on a short CD steal, so it would at least put 20 points into trickery.

the only thing that venom share buffed was skale venom on a build that already requires 6/x/6/x/x dumped entirely on venom traits instead of survivability or damage traits, and the investment is so heavy that you have to sacrifice utilities to make room for venoms.

TL;DR: the venom share change only sounds like an important buff to people that never played a venom share thief.

Actually the venom buff will make thieves slightly better in zergs. SB coupled with earth and torment sigil, a dire venomshare can, after patch, actually provide good party dps. While as it is, all venoms but devourer and basilisk is useless due to everyone using PVT gear.
It is a step in the right direction, however it is not a large enough step to say venoms are in a good place, zerg wise. Small group venoms is borderline OP as is.

those stats with aplyed fortitude and strength ….

Aeolus.3615:

those stats with aplyed fortitude and strength ….

No they are not

Thank you to remind me
I should ve included those because its the norm in WWW to have both.

EXPECIALLY on thieves and warriors.

So 2840 power.

500 power more than PvP
20% crit damage more than PvP
8% more crit chance

i could also add how easier is in www build adrenaline and initiative.

And possibly i even forget the fact that could be a further discrepancy between weapon power in pvp and www since ascended release.

LordByron.8369:

Aeolus.3615:

those stats with aplyed fortitude and strength ….

No they are not

Thank you to remind me
I should ve included those because its the norm in WWW to have both.

EXPECIALLY on thieves and warriors.

So 2840 power.

500 power more than PvP
20% crit damage more than PvP
8% more crit chance

i could also add how easier is in www build adrenaline and initiative.

And possibly i even forget the fact that could be a further discrepancy between weapon power in pvp and www since ascended release.

i was refering “those stats in wvw with the wvw buff” as in it would melt the target
and waste all it defenses in a few blows, yeah ive noticed thiefs that cant spam bursts 5-6 seconds not shure to busy to get near them, if played well it can kite almost everything.

Aeolus.3615:

LordByron.8369:

Aeolus.3615:

those stats with aplyed fortitude and strength ….

No they are not

Thank you to remind me
I should ve included those because its the norm in WWW to have both.

EXPECIALLY on thieves and warriors.

So 2840 power.

500 power more than PvP
20% crit damage more than PvP
8% more crit chance

i could also add how easier is in www build adrenaline and initiative.

And possibly i even forget the fact that could be a further discrepancy between weapon power in pvp and www since ascended release.

i was refering “those stats in wvw with the wvw buff” as in it would melt the target
and waste all it defenses in a few blows, yeah ive noticed thiefs that cant spam bursts 5-6 seconds not shure to busy to get near them, if played well it can kite almost everything.

A thief can burst in 1-2 seconds a balanced light target.
That is dangerously near to reaction time itself of an online game (and its way under reaction time for a surprise attack… something a stealth profession should not have).

Add the fact you can t recover at all if that damage is SUSTAINED (i can say with most profession if you are hit ONCE by a thief with its opener you already lost the fight because a second skill would kill you and to recover you have to cast skills…while he keeps attacking… consider how damage>healing and you see why).

And if you strongly outplay your target, there is 0 reward since he will just flee

Thieves doesn t kite in WWW, they have spammable stealth and the best panic button in game (teleport+cond cleanse+break stun) and that is enough.

Thief is considered high skill floor in PvP and newbye skill floor in WWW for a reason (if you are in a guild you almost cenrtainly know a good numbers of beginners being effective in www with thief and horrible with any other profession and in any other part of the game).

If you play www roaming and then try PvP, the latter will seem extreely slow compared to the first when most fights ends in seconds. (with the exception of warriors and thieves with few defensive pieces that can troll entire ZERGS).