Guild Wars 2

So we all know that conditions have a serious handicap in pve. Can’t be applied to objects, 25 stack limit blah blah blah. It’s been a year and the dev’s are still scratching their heads about it.

So i would like an explanation why you think bleed proc’s should be available on power trait lines and weapon skills for power specs. You could potentially have one condi based spec along with 60 power based specs on one boss and the condi based spec dps would still suck because of this fact.

citizankane.5723:

So i would like an explanation why you think bleed proc’s should be available on power trait lines and weapon skills for power classes.

Because crit-procs fit into crit-lines?
Because design-wise, they probably want all characters to have easy access to a certain baseline but unreliable condition element?

And what sense does that make for a power based spec with 0 condi damage to apply a condition taking up space on a 25 stack limit and rendering a 2000 condi damage spec useless, please explain further.

citizankane.5723:

And what sense does that make for a power based spec with 0 condi damage to apply a condition taking up space on a 25 stack limit and rendering a 2000 condi damage spec useless, please explain further.

That’s not what I said.

Now if you’re wondering “Why hasn’t this changed yet?”, I would as a developer (though not for ANet) say that Blizzard proved pretty well with WoW that nerfing/buffing anything quickly nets you nothing but even more whine threads on the forums.

The problem is also one of design intents.

Do you really just want to move the bleed procs off the precision lines?
Or do you actually want to run your own separate bleed stack?

Both are fixes to a problem, but which is more useful to the game as a whole? What are the side-effects, especially given sPvP where conditions already reign supreme versus WvW and PvE where they’re nigh useless?

“Now if you’re wondering “Why hasn’t this changed yet?”, I would as a developer (though not for ANet) say that Blizzard proved pretty well with WoW that nerfing/buffing anything quickly nets you nothing but even more whine threads on the forums.”

What part of it’s been a year don’t you understand?

Condi is supposed to be supplemented damage, not the one and only way to damage in itself, you guys gotta stop trying to bring your epicness in pve to pvp.
This is not to say condi does not have its problems in pve, but people cannot expect to specc full condi and think just because its brokenly unbalanced to viability in pvp its good for pve.

citizankane.5723:

What part of it’s been a year don’t you understand?

It’s curious though how you consider a year a lengthy amount of time in a game with 8 classes, ~500 abilities, ~1-4 million combinations and guesstimated (from WoW’s early versions) ~500k spell or ability effects.

Nothing is ever as easy as it seems. Remember those tiny buffs to the weak PvP warriors? See what that did once you summed them up, and I bet that wasn’t intended either. :P

Oren.1736:

Condi is supposed to be supplemented damage,

Really? Then why does it have a stat on gear?

frans.8092:

Oren.1736:

Condi is supposed to be supplemented damage,

Really? Then why does it have a stat on gear?

The question is why does it have OTHER stats on gear, and there is only 1 stat related to condi damage, well not much of a question, more of an answer to you.

Oren.1736:

frans.8092:

Oren.1736:

Condi is supposed to be supplemented damage,

Really? Then why does it have a stat on gear?

The question is why does it have OTHER stats on gear, and there is only 1 stat related to condi damage, well not much of a question, more of an answer to you.

well let’s take the two gear sets that I believe are the most condition based namely rabid(prec/rough/codi damage) and dire(vit/tough/condi damage) as an example:

-condition damage is straightforward so I will not discuss this.

- precision is used to create more stacks of condition in combination with traits like barbed precision and dhuumfire and sigils like sigil of the earth.

- toughness and vitality are used to make sure you can survive the duration of your conditions, what’s the point of having a condition that does damage during 20
seconds if you can’t survive those 20 seconds.

Oren.1736:

frans.8092:

Oren.1736:

Condi is supposed to be supplemented damage,

Really? Then why does it have a stat on gear?

The question is why does it have OTHER stats on gear, and there is only 1 stat related to condi damage, well not much of a question, more of an answer to you.

i like this answer.

The only way to ever equalize condi damage (in all aspects of the game) is to do 2 things:

• Give each player their own condi stack on each enemy, instead of a combined condi stack for everyone. It makes no sense to have this limit in the first place. I can only imagine this was a technical constraint of some kind, but it needs to be reexamined. If this existed for power builds, it would be like saying “if the target was hit 25 times in the last ~5 seconds, all other attacks do 0 damage”. (5 seconds being an average condi duration)

• make all attacks against objects ignore power. Only use player level and weapon strength in the calculation. They already remove crit chance, crit dmg, and condi is ignored completely. Just remove power from the equation and let players be equal.

Oren.1736:

Condi is supposed to be supplemented damage, not the one and only way to damage in itself, you guys gotta stop trying to bring your epicness in pve to pvp.
This is not to say condi does not have its problems in pve, but people cannot expect to specc full condi and think just because its brokenly unbalanced to viability in pvp its good for pve.

That don’t even make sense

Carighan.6758:

citizankane.5723:

What part of it’s been a year don’t you understand?

It’s curious though how you consider a year a lengthy amount of time in a game with 8 classes, ~500 abilities, ~1-4 million combinations and guesstimated (from WoW’s early versions) ~500k spell or ability effects.

Nothing is ever as easy as it seems. Remember those tiny buffs to the weak PvP warriors? See what that did once you summed them up, and I bet that wasn’t intended either. :P

The problem in my opening post was introduced at the beginning of a game designed around map zerging world bosses in pve with only a 25 stack bleed limit that allows weak non condition spec classes to take up that 25 stack limit.
I know your trying to be positive but this was dumb to introduce at the start of the game and still is a year later. I really don’t know what else to say seems alot of people in this post just don’t get it.
I really do hope they are working towards a better solution as do you but at the very least this is one aspect that should change.

Also this has always bothered me but i decided to just not use my condi spec for pve since its so bad.
But working on the jungle worm bosses people were asked to stack in a spot that were condition spec for killing husks.Out of 160 people only 4 happened to be condi spec. and those 4 would be useless even split up amongst 160 people due to power based classes applying non condi spec(useless) conditions through traits and weapon skills.

Shrug, seems like a glaring problem to me.

Bear on the job.6273:

The only way to ever equalize condi damage (in all aspects of the game) is to do 2 things:

• Give each player their own condi stack on each enemy, instead of a combined condi stack for everyone. It makes no sense to have this limit in the first place. I can only imagine this was a technical constraint of some kind, but it needs to be reexamined. If this existed for power builds, it would be like saying “if the target was hit 25 times in the last ~5 seconds, all other attacks do 0 damage”. (5 seconds being an average condi duration)

• make all attacks against objects ignore power. Only use player level and weapon strength in the calculation. They already remove crit chance, crit dmg, and condi is ignored completely. Just remove power from the equation and let players be equal.

For your first point I don’t think they could do,would cause too much lag is what i’ve heard in the past.
So at the very least allow zergs or dungeon parties to organize an amount of condition damagers thats efficient, cause with the problem I describe its pointless now.

I like your second suggestion

citizankane.5723:

Oren.1736:

Condi is supposed to be supplemented damage, not the one and only way to damage in itself, you guys gotta stop trying to bring your epicness in pve to pvp.
This is not to say condi does not have its problems in pve, but people cannot expect to specc full condi and think just because its brokenly unbalanced to viability in pvp its good for pve.

That don’t even make sense

Yes i got mixed up in first sentence. Point being, condi is tied into “power builds” as OP claimes because condi as i understand it is supposed to be to a large extent supplementary damage. It would make no sense if 1 stat – condi damage, was all you ever needed to execute damage in the game, therefore precision is a gating, and the procs are tied to other lines. It’s also the reason dhummfire is getting changed.
The only real problem is that condi stacks are limited in so many ways making them not good for pve. PVP determines this stufff, but hopefully they will find a way to fix condi stacking.

Oren.1736:

citizankane.5723:

Oren.1736:

Condi is supposed to be supplemented damage, not the one and only way to damage in itself, you guys gotta stop trying to bring your epicness in pve to pvp.
This is not to say condi does not have its problems in pve, but people cannot expect to specc full condi and think just because its brokenly unbalanced to viability in pvp its good for pve.

That don’t even make sense

Yes i got mixed up in first sentence. Point being, condi is tied into “power builds” as OP claimes because condi as i understand it is supposed to be to a large extent supplementary damage. It would make no sense if 1 stat – condi damage, was all you ever needed to execute damage in the game, therefore precision is a gating, and the procs are tied to other lines. It’s also the reason dhummfire is getting changed.
The only real problem is that condi stacks are limited in so many ways making them not good for pve. PVP determines this stufff, but hopefully they will find a way to fix condi stacking.

Hmm, not really sure if I translated this correctly but you believe conditions are not meant to be a main damage stat just secondary right?
Lol, well thats kinda how I feel when I wear condition damage, toughness and precision gear.
Anyway thanks for the bump.