Guild Wars 2

Balance patches are too infrequent and much of the discussion isn’t even acknowledged. This has been proven patch after patch when nothing is done about the complaints – complaints that have been going on for over a year now.

In SPvP and WvW, the list of complaints has been growing as nothing has been done on any patch. These big complaint builds even have names because they are too strong. So far, we have had:

• Hambow or Axe/Bow Warriors. (Culprit being longbow and cleansing ire mechanics)
• PU Mesmers. (AI)
• Spirit Rangers. (AI)
• Turret Engineers. (AI)
• Minion Mancers. (AI)
• Evade spam Thieves. (Evade spam, not skillful evades. Need longer aftercasts)
• Fearmancers. (Fear spam, not skillful play)
• Condition Engineers (Twitch-like hard to dodge conditions and too much burn)
• Fresh Air S/D Burst Elementalists. (Nearly impossible to dodge, massive burst)
• Bunker Guardians. (There is no counterplay. Must wait until cooldowns are over to kill)
• Stealth not revealing on opponents evades, blocks, blinds, etc.
• Perplexity Runes.
• Elementalist RTL nerfed while warrior has significantly more mobility.
• Pistol/Dagger Thief.
• Immobilize stacking.

Now, we have:
• Balthazaar runes burn spam.
• Pirate Runes (BIRD)
• Might stacking spam.
• Air Sigil + Fire Sigil on full zerker stealth classes.

I feel like I’m missing a few, but this is the majority.

Are we ever going to get real balance patches for the game with the best PvP mechanics in the MMO industry? This is the only reason so many people stick around. The potential of the game and what is actually being done is depressing…

There is nothing wrong with most of what you listed. Just because “you” have complaints about them, doesn’t mean there is any real problem with them at all.

dancingmonkey.4902:

There is nothing wrong with most of what you listed. Just because “you” have complaints about them, doesn’t mean there is any real problem with them at all.

I didn’t list those only because “I” have a problem with them.

Maybe it’s their build that is countered by them because the only thing that troubles me are hidden turrets I like them on point not somewhere where I can’t hit or see them.

I know people complain about PU, but I don’t understand what AI has to do with it. The complaints about mesmer AI arent coming from mesmer opponents, rather the weakness of Mesmer AI in the face of zergs, AoE, and cleave spam.

Zefrost.3425:

dancingmonkey.4902:

There is nothing wrong with most of what you listed. Just because “you” have complaints about them, doesn’t mean there is any real problem with them at all.

I didn’t list those only because “I” have a problem with them.

I see. You presume to speak for everyone. How bold of you.

well in my opinion PU is not OP , since it only works in stealth and its not like thieves that we can spam stealth .

anyways i dont see the problem with those builds

The problem with PU isn’t AI; it’s clone spam, mostly from lots of dodges, and defensive boon spam. Cut down on the dodges, which cuts down on the clones and also decreases defense and they won’t be so bad.

The problem with the OP’s list is that it goes too far or doesn’t do a good job explaining the problems. Fresh Air elementalist burst is only a problem against full glass players and requires set up by the elementalist or allies. That build also dies quickly. I’m fine with that. Bunker guardian is in a good spot, though stability is a little too easy to access. The counterplay is to neutralize the objective; you don’t have to kill them outright.

So you basically just listed the whole game

First of all, stop thinking the game should be balanced around 1v1 duels, cus it’s not going to be and it shouldn’t be.

Next, just because you have a problem with all of this doesn’t mean everyone does. There’s not a lot on this list I can’t handle. If I can’t I just deal with it. If it’s unbearable, I give a suggestion. But mostly I just deal with it. I suggest others do the same. Just an FYI you can counter most if not all of the builds listed. Take time to practice instead of getting killed a few times doing the same tactics and asking for nerfs.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Zefrost.3425:

dancingmonkey.4902:

There is nothing wrong with most of what you listed. Just because “you” have complaints about them, doesn’t mean there is any real problem with them at all.

I didn’t list those only because “I” have a problem with them.

I see. You presume to speak for everyone. How bold of you.

1,740 results for “Hambow Warrior site:https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum”
2,850 results for “PU Mesmer site:https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum”
8,140 results for “Evade Spam Thief site:https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum”

Etc.

Clearly, many people have a problem with these builds.

And no, I won’t just “deal with” a condition turret engineer with pirate runes being allowed to actually exist or anything else as ridiculous as that. Balance comes from complaint threads. Or at least, it’s supposed to.

Also, no class should ever be unkillable in a 1v1 situation or require more than 1 person to kill, ever. Especially if they actually want the game to be esports.

On that note, I’m making a Nomad stat warrior for WvW so I can be unkillable.

Again, stop trying to get them to balance the game on 1v1 situations.

And…honestly I don’t play bunker but isn’t a good bunker SUPPOSED to not die?

Basically all of the builds you listed have counters, the reason people are…“with” you on your opinion is because theyre like you and decide to cry to anet so that they can win more. Maybe if you used your brains and stopped looking for hard counters you would win more duels against these builds. Hate to break it to you but Facerolling as a warrior doesn’t always work.

Again, not all of the builds you listed have HARD counters, you have to use SOFT counters to beat them. They’re in the way you play against them, not in the skills you use.

Exedore.6320:

The problem with PU isn’t AI; it’s clone spam, mostly from lots of dodges, and defensive boon spam. Cut down on the dodges, which cuts down on the clones and also decreases defense and they won’t be so bad.

Vigor was nerfed. Clone spam was reduced. Even then, necros have wells, engies have landmine spam, eles aoe. Exploding clones are hardly “AI” when looking at their function compared to similar effects by other classes.

the problem with pu isnt AI as often said but its the boosting of the already strong enough stealth “buff”, which makes a good PU being unkillable against not only 1 but at least 2 enemies. Only a big and well timed CC chain is able to wreck those. Therefore you could describe it as Bunkerbuild if there wouldnt be the fact that you cant hold a point in stealth so everythings okay right? no cause theres another problem. Pu mesmers still deal too much damage for someone who cant be killed by 2 people!
First there were the “Stealth Reset” Thieves which still exist :S (same problem with them) now we got PU running around everywhere in wvw.
Most people dont even fight them nowadays cause they know its vain.

And yet something like PU is still entirely relevant in actual PvP content. That is, group fights.
It also takes way too long to kill anyone.

But anyhow, I digress.

I wonder, considering how long that list in the OP is, what is the actual problem here? That it should be much larger. We wanted viable PvP specs. Well, there’s a fairly lengthy list up there already.

As an average usually PU mesmer in my unfavored game mode, I can say that PU mesmers can be wrecked by really skillful non-PU mesmers easily. They are not a problem for people who know how to play, and do not dominate in high-level play either.

Lishtenbird.2814:

As an average usually PU mesmer in my unfavored game mode, I can say that PU mesmers can be wrecked by really skillful non-PU mesmers easily. They are not a problem for people who know how to play, and do not dominate in high-level play either.

You’re doing it wrong then lol
@OP
I agree, good list. Expect CDI in 4 mths followed by 6 mths of silence:D

Carighan.6758:

And yet something like PU is still entirely relevant in actual PvP content. That is, group fights.
It also takes way too long to kill anyone.

Yup PU wont get any nerf till there are some new pvp gamemodes thats my guess x)

@Zefrost.3425:
It seems to me you listed a bunch of things that you can not deal with. And even if you find 30 trillion posts to a certain topic, it wouldn’t prove anything. Game forums tend to be used mostly by people, who are not satisfied, thus, resulting in a huge bias towards the complaint already… And further the number of complaints doesn’t prove anything, as long as you can not tell the relation of complaining to content player.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Vigor was nerfed. Clone spam was reduced. Even then, necros have wells, engies have landmine spam, eles aoe. Exploding clones are hardly “AI” when looking at their function compared to similar effects by other classes.

And sigil of energy was buffed by removing the shared cooldown and now practically everyone uses it. Just because PU mesmer has trouble vs. a handful of builds doesn’t mean it’s a problem in general. Though in this case, it’s rune and sigil power creep that’s keeping it frustrating for mid-level players, not anything extremely broken about the profession.

Maybe it is just me, but in the case of a PU mesmer, I always thought that when 3 clones suddenly start running at you at the same time, that it was a bit of a tell, and to dodge. Having that in mind, I never understood why that build is an issue.

dancingmonkey.4902:

There is nothing wrong with most of what you listed. Just because “you” have complaints about them, doesn’t mean there is any real problem with them at all.

Agreed.

why is fresh air build a problem? it dies basically in 1 atk, its kill or get killed build

Maybe it’s just me, but from you listed it looks like there are more viable build now than ever, you even listed s/d ele as a problem… every class as now at least 1 good build, the next step should increase that number and not decrease it.

Wyrden.4713:

why is fresh air build a problem? it dies basically in 1 atk, its kill or get killed build

Well if the combo hits correctly a Fresh air build can take a non tank build full hp to dead is 2-3s. So not much you can do to counter if that is your first time see it happen. Stability helps to prevent the disable that allow for the full combo to hit. If you dodge at the start of the combo you can stop it too but you have to know whats coming. With lightning flash that is not always possible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gAif9qE4WY

Ulion.5476:

Wyrden.4713:

why is fresh air build a problem? it dies basically in 1 atk, its kill or get killed build

Well if the combo hits correctly a Fresh air build can take a non tank build full hp to dead is 2-3s. So not much you can do to counter if that is your first time see it happen. Stability helps to prevent the disable that allow for the full combo to hit. If you dodge at the start of the combo you can stop it too but you have to know whats coming. With lightning flash that is not always possible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gAif9qE4WY

ye but mostly 1 timed dodge totally ruins the s/d ele, i play s/d myself and its always a kill before u get killed’ situation

and judging by the way things are going things will not change any time soon

sminkiottone.6972:

Maybe it’s just me, but from you listed it looks like there are more viable build now than ever, you even listed s/d ele as a problem… every class as now at least 1 good build, the next step should increase that number and not decrease it.

Most of those builds require little to no skill in order to be highly effective. What the OP has identified is a symptom of a problem.

Here are some of the problems with PvP:

1. No competitive scene
2. Substantial build imbalance
3. Substantial profession imbalance
4. Substantial itemization problems
5. Lack of map variety
6. Numerous bugs

A cursory root cause analysis shows the core problem is: insufficient developer support. The support for the PvP in this game is, effectively, non-existent.

People have complained for two years and nothing has been done that has actually resulted in an improvement in the PvP game, overall.

Two.
Years.

They buffed elementalists buffs and broke them.
Then they were nerfed into oblivion.
Then necromancers were buffed and broken.
Then they were nerfed down to mediocrity.
Then warriors were buffed and broken. They remain that way today.
Then the developers re-itemized everything and added a bunch of broken or useless traits.

And they basically haven’t touched it since.

So, in short, complaining will do you no good. If you like the gameplay as it is, good for you. If you don’t, I suggest you find another game to play. The PvP ship for GW2 has set sail and the course is not going to change.

Thedenofsin.7340:

So, in short, complaining will do you no good. If you like the gameplay as it is, good for you. If you don’t, I suggest you find another game to play. The PvP ship for GW2 has set sail and the course is not going to change.

Most skilled people I knew from GW1 left GW2 in the first few months or didn’t even bother to buy the game, we all knew anet was aiming to a more casual aproach.

Imo it’s a waste of time complaining because after 2 years what did they do to respond to the more competitive players ? GW1 pvp in his first month was waaay better than GW2 pvp after 2 years.