Guild Wars 2

Would like any red banner to provide specific reasoning as to why ONLY Warriors suffer from long and obvious attack animations.

The Burst skills, which we’ve been tolerant of, and to some degree, make sense:

Earthshaker – Obvious and slow overhead hammer leap

Combustive Shot – Obvious and slow projectile with a big arc (The arc is at least useful for hitting siege, though you did nerf the direct damage for no reason)

Kill Shot – 3 Second crouched down charge up animation

Eviscerate – Super obvious leap

Skull Crack – Long cast time and super massive glow around the weapon, and a sound.

They are all Burst skills, I suppose we can argue that fair enough they have a bit of an obvious tell.

But now you’re suggesting of adding:

Pin Down (Longbow #5 – apply immobilize and bleed) – Adding a new warm up effect so other players can see when you are using this skill and dodge it. Going to 0.25s to 0.75s cast.

Pin Down isn’t a Burst skill, or a class mechanic.

No other class (besides channeling skills like Barrage and Meteor Shower) suffer from long and obvious casting animations.

Could you please justify why the Warrior receives this treatment and no one else?

Why does Mesmer have no obvious casting animation when they use their class mechanic, clone shatters? Each Shatter should have a different animation and sound.

Necromancer class mechanic ‘Death Shroud’ has that delicious and tasty Tainted Shackles skill. This skill is instant cast, it ignores block/blind/evade/stealth. It also probably targets through Invulnerability as well. Why does this skill escape the obvious and long casting animation justice?

Etc.

Thank you for a red banner response before you go overboard and make every single warrior skill have 2 second animations + huge glows and sounds.

Because most warriors use Pin Down while their target is on a fire field, which often leads to a GG in favor of warrior. Other immobilizing skills already have effects actually.

Mesmer – sword 3 leap is quite predictable, a clone leaps at you and the mesmer will often leap right after to immobilize you.
Necro – there’s green kitten covering your screen
Engi – dat turret (will be nerfed?)

Also mesmers have obvious casting animation, more so than you might think. Each shatter already have different animations and sound.

Oow here comes the anti warrior post below me, prepare for it.. They QQ about anything from warr.. From weapons to trait to health etc etc etc.. And even now about leap/landscape.. It will never end.

But yeah i agree with you. Since warriors becomes viable in pvp etc they started to nerf every weapon we get.. And i say EVERY WEAPON! All with long casttimes and animations or damage remove etc etc.

About pin down, why not first from 1/4 to 1/2 with some animation? Why go from so low to extreme 3/4 + another epic animation..

Soon warriors will stomp the ground 3x for every burst/semi burst skills, so you see, hear And you can feel it coming! The 1/4 sec was indeed to low.. But the way Anet is going for every warr weapon is just bad

Bearlin.7238:

Necro – there’s green kitten covering your screen

It might be covering the screen once it is on you, but there is nothing you can do to STOP it from getting on you in the first place, literally nothing.

Tainted Shackles:
- Instant cast.
- When pressed, it attaches to any nearby targets no matter what. (Blind, block, dodge, evasion do not stop the skill.)
- Once it has attached to a target, it applies torment every second, even through blind, block, dodge, evasion and invulnerability.

It is a skill that is apart of the class mechanic, it also goes through EVERY form of defence in the game, yet it is instant cast, why is it not brought in line with the warrior class mechanic aka burst skills?

The point of this thread isn’t about how they are completely destroying Warrior Longbow, but I will mention this:

They already nerfed Combustive Shot to basically NEVER apply burning, now nerfing Pin Down to make it even easier to avoid. People already dodge to get out of Combustive Shot when they see the big ball of fire slowly coming, which means they’ll most likely evade Pin Down. Now Pin Down will be even easier to dodge, the longbow just becomes useless.

So wait… is this conversation just about the Longbow’s telegraphed animations (and cast time) or is it about Warrior animations in general?

These threads seem to derail too fast to continue serious conversation. That is why I want this cleared up.

As for my point of view, and do not get this wrong but Warriors in general are pretty deadly with just their auto-attack if you allow them to get in range (ranged attacks are a different story altogether…) To have any chance to stop this from happening the skills that allow for CC to set up an attack need to be telegraphed, otherwise the only counter to this is to break stun or cleanse conditions (unless you are really, really lucky on your dodge rolls, which is not exactly promoting skillful play if you have to guess when to use them.)

As for the obligatory hate comment, here is for the Warriors with the tl;dr attitude;

Warrior auto-attacks do more damage than most classes’ burst skills. Telegraphed attacks are needed because every hit from the Warrior is potentially deadly.

skyz.7321:

Bearlin.7238:

Necro – there’s green kitten covering your screen

It might be covering the screen once it is on you, but there is nothing you can do to STOP it from getting on you in the first place, literally nothing.

Tainted Shackles:
- Instant cast.
- When pressed, it attaches to any nearby targets no matter what. (Blind, block, dodge, evasion do not stop the skill.)
- Once it has attached to a target, it applies torment every second, even through blind, block, dodge, evasion and invulnerability.

It is a skill that is apart of the class mechanic, it also goes through EVERY form of defence in the game, yet it is instant cast, why is it not brought in line with the warrior class mechanic aka burst skills?

The point of this thread isn’t about how they are completely destroying Warrior Longbow, but I will mention this:

They already nerfed Combustive Shot to basically NEVER apply burning, now nerfing Pin Down to make it even easier to avoid. People already dodge to get out of Combustive Shot when they see the big ball of fire slowly coming, which means they’ll most likely evade Pin Down. Now Pin Down will be even easier to dodge, the longbow just becomes useless.

When I see the green.. I just walk out of the way :/

I agree with comment above, I think it pretty much sums up my thoughts as well.

if you think that warrior is the only one with long and obvious attack animations than you’ve never played an elementalist

BTW, about animations – asura ban (standard player model checkbox) when?

Other classes do have obvious attacks, just not as many. Warriors just have a huge number of brutally powerful attacks compared to other classes who only have a few, so of course you also have more obvious attacks,

On rangers, for example, I can only think of 3 attacks which can hit over 5k, and all of them are easily avoided, or at least partially avoided. We also dont have super long stuns, or huge AoE stuns, or any of the other crazy powerful attacks you have. Out absolute biggest attck does less damage than Final Thrust does above the 50% threashold. Just think about that.

Warriors simply have the best attacks. If you could land them all warriors would win every fight hands down no questions asked. The only weakness of the warrior is that they cant land every attack against someone who knows what they are doing.

In specific relation to the LB#5 change.. its the same thing. 6 bleed stacks AND immobilize and even at 1000 range? In one attack? Most classes can only dream of that. Rangers are even known for their condition builds, and our biggest condtion attacks are axe#2, which applies 5 bleeds and requires <100 range, and dagger#5 which only applies 3 bleeds and cripple, and cant hit a target more than 500 range away because of how kitten slow the dagger moves. And to round it off your LB#5 bleeds last 2-3 times longer than the attacks on the ranger.

LB#5 is a rediculously good attack, its only right it should be well signposted.

Edit: And in reference to tainted shackles – Necros have such poor mobility, especially in DS, that getting out of range of it is easily done. And even if you do absolutely nothing about it, it still does much less damage that LB#5 and immobilizes for a fraction of the time. And its on a much longer CD. Taintess shackles is not even nearly as dangerous as LB#5 is on a warrior.. its an AoE DOT attack, not a single target “burst” skill.

Cufufalating.8479:

Other classes do have obvious attacks, just not as many. Warriors just have a huge number of brutally powerful attacks compared to other classes who only have a few, so of course you also have more obvious attacks,

On rangers, for example, I can only think of 3 attacks which can hit over 5k, and all of them are easily avoided, or at least partially avoided. We also dont have super long stuns, or huge AoE stuns, or any of the other crazy powerful attacks you have. Out absolute biggest attck does less damage than Final Thrust does above the 50% threashold. Just think about that.

Warriors simply have the best attacks. If you could land them all warriors would win every fight hands down no questions asked. The only weakness of the warrior is that they cant land every attack against someone who knows what they are doing.

In specific relation to the LB#5 change.. its the same thing. 6 bleed stacks AND immobilize and even at 1000 range? In one attack? Most classes can only dream of that. Rangers are even known for their condition builds, and our biggest condtion attacks are axe#2, which applies 5 bleeds and requires <100 range, and dagger#5 which only applies 3 bleeds and cripple, and cant hit a target more than 500 range away because of how kitten slow the dagger moves. And to round it off your LB#5 bleeds last 2-3 times longer than the attacks on the ranger.

LB#5 is a rediculously good attack, its only right it should be well signposted.

Edit: And in reference to tainted shackles – Necros have such poor mobility, especially in DS, that getting out of range of it is easily done. And even if you do absolutely nothing about it, it still does much less damage that LB#5 and immobilizes for a fraction of the time. And its on a much longer CD. Taintess shackles is not even nearly as dangerous as LB#5 is on a warrior.. its an AoE DOT attack, not a single target “burst” skill.

And here comes peoples 30/30/30/30/30 warrior build with full pvt and zerker armor at the same time. And this time with an added bonus of all the attacks of the warrior hits like a truck. Instead of whining and asking for nerfs for other classes ask them to fix yours. Tsk

because we warriors have lots of goodies.
- best armor
- best health
- best mobility
- best sustain against puny damage (non high damage burst, non heavy condition)

we need some big obvious animation to balance things up.

all is working as intended.
do not change.

IFreedom.4637:

And here comes peoples 30/30/30/30/30 warrior build with full pvt and zerker armor at the same time. And this time with an added bonus of all the attacks of the warrior hits like a truck. Instead of whining and asking for nerfs for other classes ask them to fix yours. Tsk

I am pretty sure at no point did I say warriors can achieve everything in one build. I didnt even mention any builds at all.

All I said is every powerful attack should be signposted and that warriors have many more powerful attacks than other classes and therefore have more signposted attacks.

Is it that hard to understand?

Cufufalating.8479:

IFreedom.4637:

And here comes peoples 30/30/30/30/30 warrior build with full pvt and zerker armor at the same time. And this time with an added bonus of all the attacks of the warrior hits like a truck. Instead of whining and asking for nerfs for other classes ask them to fix yours. Tsk

I am pretty sure at no point did I say warriors can achieve everything in one build. I didnt even mention any builds at all.

All I said is every powerful attack should be signposted and that warriors have many more powerful attacks than other classes and therefore have more signposted attacks.

Is it that hard to understand?

Taking from your view I guess rangers longbow rapid fire needs glows and charge up animations too then? Or just before the short bow cripple, or a necro having a huge indecation and charge time before signet of spite? Do you not see how stupid it is that people are calling for more animation time/charge time and indecations only for warriors? Might as well have an announcer shout before a warrior uses any skill

Because no other class has any obvious animations! You’re not biased in your assessment, either!

Just how easy to hide are the following attacks then, in your opinion:

• Elementalist Staff Fire 5
• Necro Warhorn 5
• Necro… I think Trident 5. The ice field one, in any case.
• Mesmer Mimic
• Engineer Mine Toolbelt skill

And that’s just 5 I could write down without stopping, the list would be ~endless if I continue.

But seriously, Warrior animations are the easy ones to tell, ofc. And only Warrior!

Carighan.6758:

Because no other class has any obvious animations! You’re not biased in your assessment, either!

Just how easy to hide are the following attacks then, in your opinion:

• Elementalist Staff Fire 5
• Necro Warhorn 5
• Necro… I think Trident 5. The ice field one, in any case.
• Mesmer Mimic
• Engineer Mine Toolbelt skill

And that’s just 5 I could write down without stopping, the list would be ~endless if I continue.

But seriously, Warrior animations are the easy ones to tell, ofc. And only Warrior!

It already bad enough for the huge hey you I am casting this burst skill.( which is suppose to be our class mechanic which I am cool with) but now suggesting longer cast time while at the same time pussing for indication too on our already limited weapon skill is too kitten much.

skyz.7321:

Would like any red banner to provide specific reasoning as to why ONLY Warriors suffer from long and obvious attack animations.

LOL warrior tears. Have you ever tried playing an Elementalists? WAY more obvious and longer animations. Stop your gorram crying and play your OP class.

because warriors are very tanky regardless what build they run, they can stay alive long enough to execute those long spells and those spells also hit kitten hard or have pretty long CC

if you got hit my hammer stun and don’t have stun break you can pretty much say hello to graveyard

besides i have yet to meet a class with infinite dodge that would be able to dodge ALL of those obvious attacks

IFreedom.4637:

Cufufalating.8479:

IFreedom.4637:

And here comes peoples 30/30/30/30/30 warrior build with full pvt and zerker armor at the same time. And this time with an added bonus of all the attacks of the warrior hits like a truck. Instead of whining and asking for nerfs for other classes ask them to fix yours. Tsk

I am pretty sure at no point did I say warriors can achieve everything in one build. I didnt even mention any builds at all.

All I said is every powerful attack should be signposted and that warriors have many more powerful attacks than other classes and therefore have more signposted attacks.

Is it that hard to understand?

Taking from your view I guess rangers longbow rapid fire needs glows and charge up animations too then? Or just before the short bow cripple, or a necro having a huge indecation and charge time before signet of spite? Do you not see how stupid it is that people are calling for more animation time/charge time and indecations only for warriors? Might as well have an announcer shout before a warrior uses any skill

Rapid fire is an obvious attack. Its a long channel which doesnt do really any seriosu damage unless the entire channel hits – it IS easy to spot and avoid taking serious damage from it.

If you think SB cripple is a big powerful attack then theres really no helping you, of course that doesnt need a big animation.

Signet of Spite honestly could stand to have a slightly longer cast time, but it is still fairly obvious as the signet appears above the necros head just before casting. Or maybe you never knew that.

I am not only for animations for the warrior, but it is a fact that warriors have more big damage or big stun attacks than any other class, which is fine I dont mind that, but with that comes with them being signposted.

[Warrior] Only 1 with obvious casting,

ahahaha

thanks, I needed a good laugh

skyz.7321:

Would like any red banner to provide specific reasoning as to why ONLY Warriors suffer from long and obvious attack animations.

Said no guardian hammer player ever

skyz.7321:

Would like any red banner to provide specific reasoning as to why ONLY Warriors suffer from long and obvious attack animations.

I don’t know how you get the idea; The casting times of Warrior burstskills are quite low, actually, and their Cooldowns are in average even lower than the ones of other classes as well (this goes for every Warrior-Weaponset, and to some extend also for their non-banner utilitys). Not to mention the very good CC that Warriors have access to, which further help them in landing their Bursts.

Earthshaker – Obvious and slow overhead hammer leap

I must agree with you here, this is quite obvious, and should always be evaded/blocked if one has the option.

Kill Shot – 3 Second crouched down charge up animation

It’s 1¾ seconds, not more.

Eviscerate – Super obvious leap

There is nothing “Super obvious” in this Ability. To be “super obvious”, it would have to be used at least at it’s maximum distance, 300 units away from the target. Using this point blank makes it one of the worst telegraphed skills in the game, and the fact that Axe #1 damage over a short time already surpasses some other classes burst skills will increase the chance for your target not to have any dodges left to counter this self-aiming skill. Just to remind you – this skill has a damage modifier of 3.0 on level 3, which is actually more than a sucessfull backstab. In a fight between two very offensive geared players, this skill can very well enable a Warrior to kill any offensive geared Elementalist, Thief, Mesmer, and probably Engineers and Rangers as well in a single Strike, even if they are at full HP (even a Thief can’t do that to the Warrior with backstab).

Pin Down isn’t a Burst skill, or a class mechanic.

You’re right. It’s just either a veeeery usefull skill (For powerbuilds, since it has 3s inmobilize on a low Cooldown) or a downright broken skill (For conditionbuilds).
Having only ¼s Casttime with a projetile, which is so fast that you can’t sidestep it infight (your movement speed gets reduced, remember!), unless the Warrior is >900 Units away from you – of course you could still dodge it instead, if you got the endurance left. This doesn’t really apply to a point-blank shot though. And just look at what this Skill can do on a standard LB | Sw/Sw Conditionbuild: >18,3k bleeding Damage, 4¼ seconds inmobilize, can be traited to give you >10s of Fury as well if you hit something with it, and all this on a ¼s casttime-skill with a 25 (20)s Cooldown. If your opponent doesn’t have any Condiremoval when hit by this, it pretty much counts as a onehit kill – And it’s not rare to hit someone with this while his condiremoval is recharging, since your Longbow gets two 100% Projectile-Combo finisher on it’s Autoattack (when traited, which should be the case anyway), which leads to a kittenload of bleeding stacks through traits and permaburn through F1, forcing the opponent to use his Conditionremoval quite often.

No other class (besides channeling skills like Barrage and Meteor Shower) suffer from long and obvious casting animations.

Again, Warrior bursts-animations aren’t generally longer than the ones from other classes. You should probably try out some other classes, and memorize their Bursts animations – you will see almost all of them are very well telegraphed, even the ones that are much weaker compared to the average Warrior-Burstskill.

Could you please justify why the Warrior receives this treatment and no one else?

Won’t comment any further on this.

Why does Mesmer have no obvious casting animation when they use their class mechanic, clone shatters? Each Shatter should have a different animation and sound.

The only way to land a Shatter instantly is to spawn your clones directly and very quickly ontop of the foe, meaning that you (currently) have to use a combination of telegraphed weaponskills and utilitys. Other than that it’s basically impossible to land a instant (untelegraphed) full shatter against something that has +25% speedbuff and knows how to kite, since the awfully slow clones move in strictly linear way. And Still, a full F1 Shatter by a Berserk Mesmer causes less Damage than a Berserk Warrior hitting with one AA chain of the mainhand-Axe.

Necromancer class mechanic ‘Death Shroud’ has that delicious and tasty Tainted Shackles skill. This skill is instant cast, it ignores block/blind/evade/stealth. It also probably targets through Invulnerability as well. Why does this skill escape the obvious and long casting animation justice?

Look at Riposte. Then at Tainted Shackles. Then right back at Riposte.

Go play Mantra Mesmer.

Another warrior QQ post……

Honestly every class has easy telegraphs. If you had a bunch of 80 alts you would be able to read the tells for any class. I have no trouble reading any classes tells because I’ve played them all to high levels. Try something other than a warrior. All of them have tells.

Too many people not reading, and going off topic.

This isn’t about the burst skills. Those are understandable.

This is about them trying to so the same to basic weapon slot attacks, and not apply this “obvious skill tell so you can dodge it” to other classes, especially to some of their class mechanic skills, when it is just as worthy.

Essentially what some people wrote here is:
“it is fine for everyone to get a flashing red light when the warrior does anything, but it is not fine for warrior to have a better chance at dodging certain skills”

Keep your unjustified bias out.

Waiting for red response still.

Discuss.

skyz.7321:

Too many people not reading, and going off topic.

This isn’t about the burst skills. Those are understandable.

This is about them trying to so the same to basic weapon slot attacks, and not apply this “obvious skill tell so you can dodge it” to other classes, especially to some of their class mechanic skills, when it is just as worthy.

Essentially what some people wrote here is:
“it is fine for everyone to get a flashing red light when the warrior does anything, but it is not fine for warrior to have a better chance at dodging certain skills”

Keep your unjustified bias out.

Waiting for red response still.

Discuss.

Dragon’s tooth, meteor shower, ice spike, lava font, all auras, eruption, all elementalist cc, phoenix, churning earth, burning speed, drake’s breath, cone of ice, glyph of storms.
Please tell me more about how warriors are the only ones with highly-telegraphed skills.

skyz.7321:

Bearlin.7238:

Necro – there’s green kitten covering your screen

It might be covering the screen once it is on you, but there is nothing you can do to STOP it from getting on you in the first place, literally nothing.

Tainted Shackles:
- Instant cast.
- When pressed, it attaches to any nearby targets no matter what. (Blind, block, dodge, evasion do not stop the skill.)
- Once it has attached to a target, it applies torment every second, even through blind, block, dodge, evasion and invulnerability.

It is a skill that is apart of the class mechanic, it also goes through EVERY form of defence in the game, yet it is instant cast, why is it not brought in line with the warrior class mechanic aka burst skills?

The point of this thread isn’t about how they are completely destroying Warrior Longbow, but I will mention this:

They already nerfed Combustive Shot to basically NEVER apply burning, now nerfing Pin Down to make it even easier to avoid. People already dodge to get out of Combustive Shot when they see the big ball of fire slowly coming, which means they’ll most likely evade Pin Down. Now Pin Down will be even easier to dodge, the longbow just becomes useless.

you do know that you can just move out of the range of tainted shackles right?

skyz.7321:

Too many people not reading, and going off topic.

This isn’t about the burst skills. Those are understandable.

This is about them trying to so the same to basic weapon slot attacks, and not apply this “obvious skill tell so you can dodge it” to other classes, especially to some of their class mechanic skills, when it is just as worthy.

Essentially what some people wrote here is:
“it is fine for everyone to get a flashing red light when the warrior does anything, but it is not fine for warrior to have a better chance at dodging certain skills”

Keep your unjustified bias out.

Waiting for red response still.

Discuss.

Hi I play hammer guardian….. You were saying?
Warriors can gripe about obvious animations when guardian hammer AA’s occur at the same speed.
Warriors can gripe about animations when most mesmer phantasms have at least a 1s cast time.
Warriors can gripe about animations when dragons tooth can’t just be walked out of.

The warrior apologists need to stop. This is a low skill floor low skill ceiling almost no risk endless reward braindead faceroll class that needs its passive healing nerfed its condition clear brought back inline with the original manifesto.

I used to respect champion legionnaires. Now they are pathetic.

Why does everybody say that warriors have obvious casting animations and nobody else does?

Fact: Nobody, no class has obvious casting animations on an Asura.

Warrior is not the only one with obvious casting, far from it. The OP is simply, flat out, lying.

This entire thread is invalid.

Churning earth is obviously far less obvious than any skill, the warrior has.

naphack.9346:

Churning earth is obviously far less obvious than any skill, the warrior has.

Totally not obvious. Not at all…. Not one bit.
Hey whats that ele doing just standing there for almost 3s?
Oh who knows he’s prolly special.
WOW THERE GOES MY ENTIRE HEALTH I did not see that coming… was that the ele?
No…. eles can’t hit that hard and none of their skills are telegraphed!

TL:DR.
Warriors are so UP because of their extremely obvious telegraphed skills.

jportell.2197:

naphack.9346:

Churning earth is obviously far less obvious than any skill, the warrior has.

Totally not obvious. Not at all…. Not one bit.
Hey whats that ele doing just standing there for almost 3s?
Oh who knows he’s prolly special.
WOW THERE GOES MY ENTIRE HEALTH I did not see that coming… was that the ele?
No…. eles can’t hit that hard and none of their skills are telegraphed!

TL:DR.
Warriors are so UP because of their extremely obvious telegraphed skills.

Exactly this. Compared to churning earth, kill shot’s animation is rather subtle and hard to notice.
Let’s not talk about Dragon Tooth, Earthquake etc.

But loads of classes have obvious tells for certain attacks based on how powerful they are. If Warrior’s have more of these obvious tells it’s because Warriors have lots of powerful abilities and not necessarily because Warriors are specifically designed to have more obvious tells as a class theme.

I do agree that it would be cool if Mesmer clones had some additional animations whilst moving to their target to shatter. But I think that sort of thing would be low down on Anet’s balance list as Mesmer shatters are neither here nor there these days.

Obvious animations are a good thing, not a thing to complain about.
Slow animations are a thing to complain about only if the risk is not worth the reward.
Pin down looked like a very fast auto attack.
No risk, only dodged by random dodges, blinds, and blocks, but is very devastating.
It badly needs that change.

Although…this will never become a real game improver until something is done about asura. All I ever see in pvp are female humans, and tiny asurans. Sometimes I see a charr or norn, but they are usually too busy respawning for me to see much of them.