While I was researching warrior and creating my own warrior builds, I had a sudden idea to make healing signet more of a signet, that should be managed, causing a situational trade off: either attack and “use” adrenaline, or leave it and gain more healing.
Right now the signet gives a base healing each second and the active heal is laughable on a 20 seconds cool down. So I was thinking of tying the healing to adrenaline in the form of the trait adrenal health:
Healing Signet
This would allow for adaption to different situations and include a trade off. When you burst your skill out and get rid of your adrenaline, you receive less passive healing. However, in case of fighting a condition build, you could actually with the trait Cleansing Ire burst it out and heal 3 conditions and then you use the active healing to get HP back, but then you lose the passive healing for a while completely. Don’t take the numbers too seriously, they maybe need changing. But what do you think of the principal, making healing sigil a passive skill, that needs to be managed a bit?
I find the idea of diametrically increasing heal interesting, however, I would say the burst heal is way too powerful, considering it comes as a bonus on top of condi cleanse and burst damage. I think adding tactics to warrior gamplay is great but in this form, it adds too much to the “get everything at once as warrior” feeling that people hate.
Considering healing signet was initially buffed in order to give warriors access to passive sustain i don’t see why it should be changed.
There are active heal options out there for those who are interested in an active heal ( although some of them could use some improvements).
HS has enough trade-off with a high susceptibility to bursts which you can’t really react to.
If you want to improve healing skills for warriors – look at the active heals. There’s a good place to start.
because passive anything in a game designs to be active and reactive is a bad idea.
Passive healing in this game is an even worse idea.
Do not mess with warriors.
Warriors work fine, it’s the other classes that need buffs.
Do not mess with warriors.
Warriors work fine, it’s the other classes that need buffs.
buff other classes to war current level ,pvp will become even more boring .
there are reasons why players hate passive play , hate mindless aoe and cc spammer .
Not to mention no one wants to watch a match where every class has little weakness and be able to do everything. rewarding /risk rate for war right is 10:1. Current War makes good timing cc ,burst and soft cc condition meaningless .
Well maybe you do like a bunker meta with all this easy mode .But before you think thats a right thing to go , there are more players who want an interesting game .
Do not mess with warriors.
Warriors work fine, it’s the other classes that need buffs.
Reminds me of the last 30 minutes of the latest Superman Movie. Immovable Object meets the Unstoppable force. Fight never ended. Surrounding city, towns, countryside all destroyed. Got, Superboring. Wished it would end.
At least in the current meta the Unstoppable Force (warrior) wears down, or kicks away everybody else. Allows them to quit and move on with their lives. Unless you’re another warrior of course. Warrior on Warrior duels go nowhere fast.
because passive anything in a game designs to be active and reactive is a bad idea.
Then let’s get rid of stats on gear. That’s all passive. Let’s get rid of the Defense stat. That’s passive. Let’s get rid of tab targeting and target locking. While it requires a minimal amount of effort, it is essentially passive. Let’s get rid of conditions and buffs tied to weapon skill use. Let’s get rid of auto-attacks. More passive stuff.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but this game is a hybrid between action games and traditional MMO play. Pointing to game design as a reason for removing passive effects is a weak argument.
Healing signet is fine, the only problem I personally have is that you do not need healing power to bring it to the power level it has by default. But then again, if healing signet was nerfed like everyone wants it to be then warrior wouldn’t have any sustain.
What players need to understand about the class is that its meant to be a frontline character like guardian but self centered. Take away the passive regen then this role is taken away.
If they did make a change to healing signet then warrior would need to be compensated. One idea is to decrease the passive of healing signet and increase adrenal health.
Considering healing signet was initially buffed in order to give warriors access to passive sustain i don’t see why it should be changed.
There are active heal options out there for those who are interested in an active heal ( although some of them could use some improvements).HS has enough trade-off with a high susceptibility to bursts which you can’t really react to.
If you want to improve healing skills for warriors – look at the active heals. There’s a good place to start.
There is no point in buffing just the active of HS when the passive is this strong. The fact that you don’t have to press anything and get ~400 hps on an already high defense high condition removal class just adds insult to injury.
Healing signet should not be a universal choice for warrior considering the low risk associated with slotting it. In other words, have it work GREAT with healing power, but otherwise be incredibly lousy.
For example, 280 passive base with a .2 healing power scale (1,100 healing power would mean 500 hps, hence the trade off). Then rework the active to a semi-strong flat heal that breaks stun to start casting. Sort of how shadow trap works, where it “breaks stun” but you still have that window of cast time before the effect takes place. I think that would be an attractive active considering you give it up for high HPS.
I do not think healing signet should work on offensive builds, period. If they want to be tanky and I mean incredibly tanky then healing signet would do wonders but outside of that, it should be entirely about decisions. Too much passive play with warrior as it is.
The solution to the healing signet is called, “superior sigil of doom.” It has an ICD of 9 seconds, and a base duration of 6 seconds. Your next attack after you swap weapons, poisons. With 50% condition duration provided by food (koi cakes) and toxic oils, stones, or crystals, you can make it near permanent.
Just burst, swap weapons, and poison. The charge doesn’t leave if they dodge, just try again. I mean what are the warrior going to do, blind spam you?, go into stealth?, distract you with clones?, make you accidentally use the charge on a pet or an army of minions?
If they run away, then you’ve won.
Remember when they used to say that when fighting thieves….I guess that rule is still in effect. :P
The solution to the healing signet is called, “superior sigil of doom.” It has an ICD of 9 seconds, and a base duration of 6 seconds. Your next attack after you swap weapons, poisons. With 50% condition duration provided by food (koi cakes) and toxic oils, stones, or crystals, you can make it near permanent.
Just burst, swap weapons, and poison. The charge doesn’t leave if they dodge, just try again. I mean what are the warrior going to do, blind spam you?, go into stealth?, distract you with clones?, make you accidentally use the charge on a pet or an army of minions?
If they run away, then you’ve won.
Remember when they used to say that when fighting thieves….I guess that rule is still in effect. :P
what about cleansing ire? :P i think a common warrior build has burst skill on a <9sec cd so it is basically the counter-counterplay (and note that while you have to “slot” that sigil to counterplay warriors they just run their common build ).
The solution to the healing signet is called, “superior sigil of doom.” It has an ICD of 9 seconds, and a base duration of 6 seconds. Your next attack after you swap weapons, poisons. With 50% condition duration provided by food (koi cakes) and toxic oils, stones, or crystals, you can make it near permanent.
Just burst, swap weapons, and poison. The charge doesn’t leave if they dodge, just try again. I mean what are the warrior going to do, blind spam you?, go into stealth?, distract you with clones?, make you accidentally use the charge on a pet or an army of minions?
If they run away, then you’ve won.
Remember when they used to say that when fighting thieves….I guess that rule is still in effect. :P
And then their solution to that is – condition duration food, + constant condition removal. Ultimately you would of gotten nowhere by slotting that sigil. It helps, but in no way is it a solution to dealing with healing signet.
because passive anything in a game designs to be active and reactive is a bad idea.
Passive healing in this game is an even worse idea.
And why is that exactly?
Care to improve on your point?
because passive anything in a game designs to be active and reactive is a bad idea.
Passive healing in this game is an even worse idea.
And why is that exactly?
Care to improve on your point?
Agreed, sounds like someone is trying to impose his or her own play style to others.
In a game, there should variety style to choose from. If you don’t like a style just choose another.
I also won’t consider warrior passive at all. Yes we don’t have to press extra button to heal. But you know what we have to do when our health gets low? We run, lol. That’s a lot more button to press you know.
So perhaps other classes are more passive, since they only have to press 1 button. Ever think about that?
because passive anything in a game designs to be active and reactive is a bad idea.
Passive healing in this game is an even worse idea.
And why is that exactly?
Care to improve on your point?Agreed, sounds like someone is trying to impose his or her own play style to others.
In a game, there should variety style to choose from. If you don’t like a style just choose another.
I also won’t consider warrior passive at all. Yes we don’t have to press extra button to heal. But you know what we have to do when our health gets low? We run, lol. That’s a lot more button to press you know.
So perhaps other classes are more passive, since they only have to press 1 button. Ever think about that?
Strawman logic, that is.
I’m pretty sure what he meant by passive is that you just need it on, you don’t have to do anything to proc the heal. Compare this to the other Signets that actively heal in the healing slot, where you have to do SOMETHING to get it to activate. Whether it’s attacking (Signet of Malice on Thief, Signet of Restoration on Elementalists), keeping your class mechanic up and going (Signet of the Ether on Mesmer), or just getting hit (Signet of Vampirism), all of them require some active effect to happen, they just don’t happen automatically.
IMO they should just make it like Signet of Vampirism, where you get healed whenever you’re hit. Maybe have it start off as a percentage of damage taken or a set amount that scales well with healing power. But it should NOT be happening all the time without any specific criteria for it to turn on, because it isn’t a condition cleansing signet or a boon giving one.
I’m pretty sure what he meant by passive is that you just need it on, you don’t have to do anything to proc the heal. Compare this to the other Signets that actively heal in the healing slot, where you have to do SOMETHING to get it to activate. Whether it’s attacking (Signet of Malice on Thief, Signet of Restoration on Elementalists), keeping your class mechanic up and going (Signet of the Ether on Mesmer), or just getting hit (Signet of Vampirism), all of them require some active effect to happen, they just don’t happen automatically.
because they are not warriors. stop comparing healing signet with others because you can not compare them like that. healing signet works because we equip it in our healing skill slot, that’s it.
IMO they should just make it like Signet of Vampirism, where you get healed whenever you’re hit. Maybe have it start off as a percentage of damage taken or a set amount that scales well with healing power. But it should NOT be happening all the time without any specific criteria for it to turn on, because it isn’t a condition cleansing signet or a boon giving one.
terrible proposal.
healing signet is fine as it is now.
do you even play a warrior?
Strawman logic, that is.
I’m pretty sure what he meant by passive is that you just need it on, you don’t have to do anything to proc the heal. Compare this to the other Signets that actively heal in the healing slot, where you have to do SOMETHING to get it to activate. Whether it’s attacking (Signet of Malice on Thief, Signet of Restoration on Elementalists), keeping your class mechanic up and going (Signet of the Ether on Mesmer), or just getting hit (Signet of Vampirism), all of them require some active effect to happen, they just don’t happen automatically.
IMO they should just make it like Signet of Vampirism, where you get healed whenever you’re hit. Maybe have it start off as a percentage of damage taken or a set amount that scales well with healing power. But it should NOT be happening all the time without any specific criteria for it to turn on, because it isn’t a condition cleansing signet or a boon giving one.
I am confused, how does Strawman logic even apply here?
1. So far I don’t know anyone made any mention of whether healing signet should be compare to other signets or to all heals. Generally the complain of warrior being too passive implies its comparison to all heals for all classes.
2. Why would you consider that have to do SOMETHING to receive the heal more active, when that something is what you would normally do anyways?
3. Active play means different things to different people. To some reactive play is more active, to other preemptive play is more active. HS lacks a decent active heal. We take actions to prevent our self from needing one. And if the situation does arrive, make no mistake, we will take active action like every other class out there whether it is to run, or to activate HS, stances, or kite, or stun.
To say warrior is passive compare to other classes is….. well, simple minded. And just because HS seems passive it does not mean HS promotes passive play.
But who are we kidding. HS’s mechanism never really changed. It got all these complain only after Anet buff the amount it heals. In reality people have problem with how much it heals and not how it heals. All the talks about active or passive are just excuses.
(edited by bigmonto.4215)
People complaining about passive stuff in this game should first look at their own builds, and realise how much of what they are ‘doing’ is actually being done for them. Passively.
because passive anything in a game designs to be active and reactive is a bad idea.
Passive healing in this game is an even worse idea.
And why is that exactly?
Care to improve on your point?Agreed, sounds like someone is trying to impose his or her own play style to others.
In a game, there should variety style to choose from. If you don’t like a style just choose another.
I also won’t consider warrior passive at all. Yes we don’t have to press extra button to heal. But you know what we have to do when our health gets low? We run, lol. That’s a lot more button to press you know.
So perhaps other classes are more passive, since they only have to press 1 button. Ever think about that?
Strawman logic, that is.
I’m pretty sure what he meant by passive is that you just need it on, you don’t have to do anything to proc the heal. Compare this to the other Signets that actively heal in the healing slot, where you have to do SOMETHING to get it to activate. Whether it’s attacking (Signet of Malice on Thief, Signet of Restoration on Elementalists), keeping your class mechanic up and going (Signet of the Ether on Mesmer), or just getting hit (Signet of Vampirism), all of them require some active effect to happen, they just don’t happen automatically.
IMO they should just make it like Signet of Vampirism, where you get healed whenever you’re hit. Maybe have it start off as a percentage of damage taken or a set amount that scales well with healing power. But it should NOT be happening all the time without any specific criteria for it to turn on, because it isn’t a condition cleansing signet or a boon giving one.
There’s a reason it’s called passive sustain.
And regarding passive play – look at Phantasm mesmers – how is that not passive play? And it’s a lot more effective than HS ever was for warrior.
You can’t make everything active in a game. The options for active heals with the advantages of those active heals are there.
People complaining about passive stuff in this game should first look at their own builds, and realise how much of what they are ‘doing’ is actually being done for them. Passively.
I can stack 70% damage increase on my ele- passively.
IMO they should just make it like Signet of Vampirism, where you get healed whenever you’re hit. Maybe have it start off as a percentage of damage taken or a set amount that scales well with healing power. But it should NOT be happening all the time without any specific criteria for it to turn on, because it isn’t a condition cleansing signet or a boon giving one.
Get healing effect every 2 seconds if you’ve dealt direct damage during the previous 2 seconds.
Works when you’re fighting, shuts down when you’re running away.
IMO they should just make it like Signet of Vampirism, where you get healed whenever you’re hit. Maybe have it start off as a percentage of damage taken or a set amount that scales well with healing power. But it should NOT be happening all the time without any specific criteria for it to turn on, because it isn’t a condition cleansing signet or a boon giving one.
Get healing effect every 2 seconds if you’ve dealt direct damage during the previous 2 seconds.
Works when you’re fighting, shuts down when you’re running away.
Whatever the Mechanism of HS, it is still mostly the amount of heals and not how it heals. If every 2 sec you get 2k heal (enough to negate an auto crit) but you get it only being attacked, people would still cry. If you get much less, no warrior will use it, and warrior goes back to the poor state we were in 1 year ago. All the suggestion of how to should work is largely meaningless.
By all means leave the warrior wheres its at….only bad players play warrior anymore cause any child and his grandma can master it. So please leave a class for all the noobs to flock to and buff all the other classes and eventually warrior will be left in the dirt =D
A-net “warrior’s using healing signet is a mistake. The passive regen is greater than the active. We do not want to nerf healing signet until we come up with a better active for it.” Their words.
Patch notes- “healing signet nerfed by 8%. No change to active. Adrenal healing now scales moderately with healing stat.”
People wanted it nerfed.
Warriors wanted a better active.
People got what they asked for.
Warrior did not get what they ask for.
People made a wish. They got that wish. Warriors mad a wish. They did not get their wish. People got what they wanted. Are you not entertained?
I agree passives should go.
let’s start with phantasms. They cast once and forget and create passive damage. next lets move to engineer turrets. Next any pet that spawns on hit. Say goodbye to rock dog and tropical bird. next let’s move to guardian passive healing. After we can look at things like empower/spotter etc. They are all passive traits, so therefore should be removed. Next ranger pets. They have an active, but can be used altogether too passively. They gotta go.
I truly don’t believe a-net will reverse all of this. A rule is only a rule when it applies to everyone. If warrior passive is unfair, then everyone must be held accountable to that same rule. Otherwise it is bias and discrimination.
Cntrl, the difference is it’s a passive healing slot skill. Nobody else’s passive healing slot skill is on all the time. That’s the problem everybody is having with Healing Signet. Unless of course you want it so everybody’s passive healing slot skill are always healing like Healing Signet.
there is nothing wrong with healing signet, it is working as intended.
it is a signet, and signet have strong passive effects.
warrior are intended, designed to face tank damage with healing signet along others because they do not have active access to aegis, stealth, chaos armor, illusions, death shroud, turrets, minions, infinite evades etc.
seriously, play a warrior in team arena at least 100 times before anyone of you warrior hater comes in here to comment further on healing signet.
Yet they’re one of the strongest classes there is because they have no weakness due to the buff to Healing Signet so long ago combo’d with the changes to Cleansing Ire and Adrenal Health (which I STILL think should be how Healing Signet should have worked to begin with, it works with the class mechanic like the other classes signets do).
there is nothing wrong with healing signet, it is working as intended.
it is a signet, and signet have strong passive effects.warrior are intended, designed to face tank damage with healing signet along others because they do not have active access to aegis, stealth, chaos armor, illusions, death shroud, turrets, minions, infinite evades etc.
seriously, play a warrior in team arena at least 100 times before anyone of you warrior hater comes in here to comment further on healing signet.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Mercy
And the ToL showed us just how important warrior is. It’s not paranoia, its fact.
Also I doubt the entire warrior class was designed to have only healing signet. Sorry, but arguing the balance of HS by saying they deserve to face tank with it is no argument at all. Even with no healing power gear HS does a far better job than the others, and the mentality to never use the active of healing signet just further shows how strong the passive is.
Talking about passive gameplay:
Warrior is the class with less passive gameplay. The diference between warrior and the other professionsis the type of passive gameplay they have.
Warrior have a good passive sustain, they dont have passive offense game play.
Other classes have a good (very good) passive attack (spirit rangers / mm necro / decap engineer / phantasm mesmer).
Others have good / very good passive sustain (PU mesmers) and still got a decent / good passive attack at the same time.
Warrior HS is fine as long there are condition spam in this game and we have classes that let AI do the job for them.
When all those passives are put in line, HS can be as well.
Right now that cannot be done.
Other thing. I do not play with HS in WvW. I use defiant stance just because i am completely destroyed with the amount of damage zergs can dish in few seconds. HS in that situation is bad. So HS is not the only choice for warriors.
I only use HS in PvP because the numbers there are much lower than in WvW and if i pop up defiant stance there people just stop attacking.
(edited by silentnight warrior.2714)
there is nothing wrong with healing signet, it is working as intended.
it is a signet, and signet have strong passive effects.warrior are intended, designed to face tank damage with healing signet along others because they do not have active access to aegis, stealth, chaos armor, illusions, death shroud, turrets, minions, infinite evades etc.
seriously, play a warrior in team arena at least 100 times before anyone of you warrior hater comes in here to comment further on healing signet.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Mercy
And the ToL showed us just how important warrior is. It’s not paranoia, its fact.
Also I doubt the entire warrior class was designed to have only healing signet. Sorry, but arguing the balance of HS by saying they deserve to face tank with it is no argument at all. Even with no healing power gear HS does a far better job than the others, and the mentality to never use the active of healing signet just further shows how strong the passive is.
Can you link the video of ToL? The one i saw showed warrior being important as other classes there.
I think this is being derailed into another ‘passives’ thread, which is not what the OP intended. I quite like the idea proposed by the OP. Healing Signet in its current form is rather lacklustre by design and the buff was obviously a band-aid fix in an attempt to address the fundamental design flaws of the Warrior class. The active is just horrible to the point where in might as well not exist. I find it bizarre, because the Mesmer healing signet is so well designed in comparison – offering a conditional to allow for player management and a strong active effect (heals for the same amount as base heal Ether Feast) with a unique class specific flavour in the form of immediate illusion recharge.
It just seems lazy to leave Warrior healing signet in its current form when it could be so much more interesting to use and actually more versatile as the OP has shown.
If they run away, then you’ve won.
Bit of a derail, but I can’t stand this particular claim. If we’re talking WvW, the truth is that if they run away they can just keep resetting the fight endlessly until they find favorable conditions.
Even before the 8% nerf, the signet didnt seem that OP IMO. What makes it bad is the ability to use crazy mobility to buy time to heal a bunch, giving warriors the option to endlessly reset fights. Before the sustain buff the mobility was justified I think, high mobility and armor plus sustain shouldnt be so easily accessible.
Anet should at least make Warrior’s options consistent with the changes that Ele faced when it too, could endlessly reset fights thanks to mobility + sustain.
(edited by roamzero.9486)
Ah so again with the ‘warriors can reset fights which only thieves and mesmers should be able to do!’
Discrimination.
there is nothing wrong with healing signet, it is working as intended.
it is a signet, and signet have strong passive effects.warrior are intended, designed to face tank damage with healing signet along others because they do not have active access to aegis, stealth, chaos armor, illusions, death shroud, turrets, minions, infinite evades etc.
seriously, play a warrior in team arena at least 100 times before anyone of you warrior hater comes in here to comment further on healing signet.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Mercy
And the ToL showed us just how important warrior is. It’s not paranoia, its fact.
Also I doubt the entire warrior class was designed to have only healing signet. Sorry, but arguing the balance of HS by saying they deserve to face tank with it is no argument at all. Even with no healing power gear HS does a far better job than the others, and the mentality to never use the active of healing signet just further shows how strong the passive is.
Can you link the video of ToL? The one i saw showed warrior being important as other classes there.
Not sure what the video you linked was supposed to show, other than that red team had no warrior and was pushed out of mid several times. Not saying 55 hp monk’s warrior was their core, but the aoe control and sustain he had certainly helped them keep their numbers up.
No point in linking just 1 video, since multiple videos showed teams having either 1 or sometimes even 2 hambow warriors. I could link the site with the team’s and their comps though.
http://mistpedia.net/mediawiki/index.php/Tournament_of_Legends
Notice the amount of warriors O.o
The entire problem with warrior can be summed up by the fact that it’s rather obvious that the class with highest health AND armor should be the last class with a passive heal, let alone the only one with one. It’s beyond stupid and no reason people are so up in arms about them all the time.
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