Guild Wars 2

+40% condi duration and +70 Condi damage food is like no other. There’s no other food that gives that bang for the buck. Most foods grant 170 stat pts. What condi build wouldn’t give up 100 stat pts for +40% condi duration?
To be fair, the -40% condition duration food should be reduced equally as well. I think if it were +/- 20% it would retain a high degree of usefulness, but not be over the top.
Thoughts?

Both foods gone completely. Reduce and increase condis from traits and abilities, not from cheesey food.

perko.8309:

+40% condi duration and +70 Condi damage food is like no other. There’s no other food that gives that bang for the buck. Most foods grant 170 stat pts. What condi build wouldn’t give up 100 stat pts for +40% condi duration?
To be fair, the -40% condition duration food should be reduced equally as well. I think if it were +/- 20% it would retain a high degree of usefulness, but not be over the top.
Thoughts?

It’s only thought to be “OP” in 1v1’s and small scale. In larger fights your better off going for damage because nothing lasts long enough to get mileage out of it. This is more dueling/solo roaming and doesn’t really do much in the grand scheme of things.

There are many foods you could make the case to remove(probably all of them tbh) for direct and condition builds. Direct damage foods or ones usually used by direct damage builds can be viewed the same way.

Seaweed salad +10% damage while moving

• + sigil of force + a 10% damage modifier trait like guardian elusive power + fiery wrath these are very easy to meet requirements. 1.10*1.10*1.10*1.05= 1.39

• So as you can see it is very easy to get +40% damage for just about any class or close to it. It’s 27% if you remove the food and 49% if you added another 7% modifier like rune of strength.

Mango pie – thats 80 healing per second you would have to invest 80 stat points into a heal that scales 1.0 in order to get that return.

Life steal food – you heal for 352 and do 352 damage on a 1 sec icd this is potentially alot more damage then power/ferocity food gives you if you have high enough crit chance and it ignores armor, protection, endure pain.

Omnomberry cream – +20% boon duration not much explanation needed here.

You can make the case for just about any food in the game tbh so it really should be keep them as is or remove them all.

Kamikazi.5380:

Both foods gone completely. Reduce and increase condis from traits and abilities, not from cheesey food.

Sure. Increase the natural duration from all condition skills. I would love this on my condition builds. Now I can increase the damage with condition stat increasing food and be better off then before. As well ,you lose your ability to negate it with food.

Then remove any and all AoE condition removal. We wouldn’t want those pesky skills keeping condition damage completely neutered in WvW would we. I mean you want conditions balanced all the way around right? Not trying to be hypocritical to only the situations that are convenient, right? Because clearly letting some other guy remove condition from you is pure cheese.

By the way, care to define cheese?

Are you aware of how many skills that 40% condition duration very literally adds zero damage to what so ever?

In most cases it only increases damage by 25% or 33% naturally, on its own.

Can we please remove negative stun duration food please. If I make a CC focused build, why should food alone negate it?

Since we’re going to compare foodbuffs based on stats given, i want to point out there is a lv80 Chili that adds just 50 Ferocity.
So obviously all other foodbuffs should then also be nerfed to only add 50 statpoints at lv80, right?

As people pointed out, 40% cond. duration is a very selective stat. It doesnt apply to all abilities, far from it even. Unlike a stat such as Ferocity/Precision/Power that applies to the majority of offensive abilities.
40% duration also doesnt always add its full potential, conditions only tick if they get a full second. So a lot of its potential is wasted.

To be fair, I really think it’s “overpowered”. As is the opposite of it, the -40% food.

Or rather I think both impose too much of a balancing constraint upon conditions. Effective durations can swing wildly based on who has which food equipped. Shouldn’t. Food in general should be useful, but it shouldn’t be strategy-changing to the other side. But these are.

So yeah, I’d … I guess I’d flat out remove them. :$

Been suggested so many times, but still support.

Amen.

entire trait-lines add less condition duration than this food. It needs a nerf.

It’s kinda boggled my mind that the “all condition” foods go up to 40%, while individual condis only get to like, 15%. Should be flipped, just like boon duration is with runes.

They could just remove food & utility from WvW and leave it as it is in PvE and guess everyone would be happy then ?

MagicalSilence.1837:

They could just remove food & utility from WvW and leave it as it is in PvE and guess everyone would be happy then ?

Not the least bit. Why should it stay in PvE? It’s just as problematic to condition balance there as in WvW.

It’s a mistype, and it should be fixed. Global condition duration increase is always less than a specific condition damage increase, except in this case.

Again, it’s something to be fixed.

Unless they changed the food to always give you +40% duration that cant be cleansed then I would agree its op, but guess what most of the time the +40% extra duration doesnt give us the full 40% because the conditions where cleansed.

Its also worth to note that conditions duration food favor -condition duration.

If i get, say, 10% condition duration. Only a condition which lasts 10sec will get a full extra 1sec for a tick. In other words, pretty useless.
But -10% cond. duration will drop every condition below a full tick. A 4sec condition will become 3.6seconds. And lose 1 full tick.

Compared to condition duration increase, i need 25% +duration in order to gain 1 tick on a 4sec condition.
If that person has -10% condition duration, it negates any +cond. duration increase upto 35% for this 4sec condition. If i have 34% condition increase, with that 4sec condition we were using as example, and hit someone with just -10% cond. duration, i will not gain any damage from my condition duration increase.

So its not that -cond. duration is trying to compensate for +cond. duration, its infact the otherway around.

Terrahero.9358:

Its also worth to note that conditions duration food favor -condition duration.

Like what is said above, this also applies to soft cc. -Condi food makes it possible to move faster and avoid further cc (such as pulsing chill or cripple fields). I wish both +/- food was removed from this game. I don’t particularly like how it transforms WvW.

Terrahero.9358:

Since we’re going to compare foodbuffs based on stats given, i want to point out there is a lv80 Chili that adds just 50 Ferocity.
So obviously all other foodbuffs should then also be nerfed to only add 50 statpoints at lv80, right?

As people pointed out, 40% cond. duration is a very selective stat. It doesnt apply to all abilities, far from it even. Unlike a stat such as Ferocity/Precision/Power that applies to the majority of offensive abilities.
40% duration also doesnt always add its full potential, conditions only tick if they get a full second. So a lot of its potential is wasted.

That chili is an anomaly. It is clearly a broken piece of garbage that no one has ever bothered to fix, so it’s not really relevant in comparing the powers of foods.

I find it odd that you state that +40% condition duration has a lot of its potential wasted. Any condition that has more than a two second duration is guaranteed to receive at least one extra tick by using this food. Furthermore, you can combine this food with a separate +10% condition duration source (i.e. 10 trait points, toxic oil/stone/crystal, rune set, &c.) to hit the +50% threshold, which is quite significant for many abilities.

You can get even more extreme. For instance, a warrior can dump 2 point in arms and take deep cuts, use the pizza and a toxic crystal to instantly have +100% bleed duration. That’s a 16 second bleed on an auto attack without even incorporating sigils, runes, equipment stats, and the other 14 trait points.

Also keep in mind that condition duration affects all conditions, not just damaging conditions. While torment, bleed, poison, and burning require “ticks” to be effective, the other conditions do not. Confusion is particularly deadly at long durations as is immobilize and chill. Partial seconds for those conditions do count. As such, you can make necro builds that are able to achieve a 10+ second chill on spinal shivers that has a 16 second cooldown, in addition to any other chill they may have access to.

The reverse is also true for the condition duration reduction food (poultry soup), particularly when combined with things like dogged march and melandru runes. It makes certain builds effectively immune to mobility impairing effects such that people are forced to jack up their condition duration if they want to use those tools, or they have to use the pizza to counteract the effects of the soup.

40% condition duration is 8 trait points worth of stats, which isn’t even normally possible to place into a trait line. In comparison, something like the truffle risotto will give +100 condition damage, which is worth 2 trait points. In the truffle risotto case, that equates to about 5 bleed damage per stack per tick and 25 burning damage per tick. As long as the pizza gives you at least one tick, which it is almost guaranteed to, the overall damage gain well exceeds the gain provided by the risotto. Yes, the condition needs to be applied for a longer period of time, but that means you can use long cooldown abilities more liberally, and condition cleansing generally can’t keep pace with condition application.

IMO both the pizza and soup should be changed to +/- 10%, respectively. This keeps them at an equivalent level of trait points worth of statistical bonuses, and allows various other foods to become possible alternatives. It also requires the player to put a heavier investment into condition duration if they want to make a warrior that applies a 22 second bleed stack on each of their auto-attacks.

I think we are missing something here. When organized groups are roaming they don’t really need -duration food because the cleanses that are going off are enough s/tPvP is evidence of this.

If you nerf overall duration of the food to +/- 10% then automatically the condition specific foods win. So you have +15% to burning, poison, and chill what will happen is that removal will become more powerful because of certain skills and traits that remove burning, poison, and chill, and certain runes/traits that reduce cripple, chill, immobilze. Which means that cleanses get to bleeds or burning faster reducing the damage a condition build can do by alot.

Example:

If I am on my engi and I have every condi on me in the game running turret and rocket boots. I should use the rocket boots first to remove cripple, chill, immobilze then drop turret for cleansing blast to possibly remove 2 more possibly dps conditions as a real world scenario. I can do this every 20 seconds untraited this makes my engi’s life easier because condi engi is weak to conditions.

If your anti-condi camp to the core then this would be great news for you but overall it would make condition builds much weaker.

I don’t know I think there is more to consider because in large fights you don’t even need to run the reduction food because condis just aren’t a problem.

Comparing it to stat line I don’t think is the correct way to look at it then your trying to compare kill speeds of direct vs condi. If you took a naked profession and gave him 100 power and 70 ferocity will he kill faster then the 40% condition duration 70 condi damage guy? That stats aren’t the same so the food shouldn’t be compared to 100 power and 70 precision or whatever is the case. Fundamentally they don’t function the same one gives instant returns the other you might not see any returns on it at all.

Honestly the duration foods are probably the source of a large number of complaints about conditions in WvW. If you aren’t running the -40% food versus a +40% food user you exponentially increase the chances of getting clubbed like a baby seal.

And the other way around is not fun either since none of the things you are reliant on to fight work, even as say, a power necro.

Binary cold war balance like this is not fun or healthy.

There needs to be a major balance pass on all foods to ensure that they have a consistent level of usefulness and do not happen to occupy such a large portion of a build’s effectiveness like the current condition duration foods do.

Remove it, or scale it down to 10% condi duration so condi-specific foods are longer at 15% or so.

@oZii: I see where you’re coming from in arguing against how powerful it is, but I don’t see why you are against removing it from the game. Here are the two situations we’ve outlined:

1. It’s basically useless in coordinated groups/larger scale with the amount of cleanse.
2. It can wildly swing a small-scale fight based on the other person’s food selection.

So it feels useless, or it feels mandatory. I can’t imagine a world where I don’t take +40% condi duration food, because as a Powermancer, if my control condis aren’t sticking, I’m losing. It’s that simple. Except if the other player doesn’t have -40% condi duration food, suddenly my control condis are sticking for much longer than they have business sticking, and I have a pretty extreme advantage when chill/immob/fear/cripple are all lasting 40% of their base duration longer. In fact, I’d argue that bleeding and burning are the least important consideration when analyzing the food’s impact.

Here’s my question: what good is it doing in the game? Any? If it isn’t serving any good, then get it out or rebalance it. Maybe it’s only affecting a niche community within the game, but if it’s only really causing grief and not considered fun because of its influence.

If it was +10% duration, I would still consider using it, because I use multiple different conditions in my control. However, it would also make me feel like I could branch out and try some of the 10% damage foods to see if I can get by.

I just really don’t like the food.

Not really against removing it but I feel that 10% is to low I think 20% is fine. I just brought up some cases and things to consider.

I know personally I use to be all about -40% condition duration food. I ran it on my Ele, Warrior, Guardian, and Mesmer. What I came to realize is that running the food weakens your build and causes you to try and fight the attrition fight. Now I run damage food because against most condition builds as a direct damage build it is 9/10 better to kill them before they kill you and apply alot of pressure. So I don’t run -condi food anymore this is even small scale/solo roaming.

When I play my condi necro the biggest threat are bursty mesmers, thieves, and warriors basically whoever can get through my deathshroud the fastest. That is when I came to realize to just run dps food on my other classes when fighting condi builds.

I just think 10% is to low for how weak condi is when you get in larger fights.

I have a thief with 10 percent more damage from a trait in DA , 10 percent more damage when using pistols and 20 percent more damage when target under 50 percent health. This is added to 10 percent damage if Ini over 6.

That is 50 percent more damage just from traits. It does not have to “tick off” with some timer that can be ended by with a condition cleanse. The damage happens NOW.

NOTHING like that exists with conditions. Direct damage gets boosts galore in every build when compared to condition damage.

40 percent duration foods is not overpowered.

Yamsandjams.3267:

I find it odd that you state that +40% condition duration has a lot of its potential wasted. Any condition that has more than a two second duration is guaranteed to receive at least one extra tick by using this food. Furthermore, you can combine this food with a separate +10% condition duration source (i.e. 10 trait points, toxic oil/stone/crystal, rune set, &c.) to hit the +50% threshold, which is quite significant for many abilities..

Your being a bit one sided in your view here. Vitality, toughness, precession, ferocity, and power are all stats that can be combined with oils, traits, and stat lines that work additively with it as well. Your attempting to imply this is specific only to one food type, and that is completely untrue.

As well, you mention the extra tic of damage you get if the skill has 3s or more of duration, while power or precision for example, effects every damage skill out there, as well as the lower direct damage attached to condition application skills. I am fairly certain that over all, DPS is gained from power food to a larger percentage increase then condition over all dps is with this food.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Yamsandjams.3267:

I find it odd that you state that +40% condition duration has a lot of its potential wasted. Any condition that has more than a two second duration is guaranteed to receive at least one extra tick by using this food. Furthermore, you can combine this food with a separate +10% condition duration source (i.e. 10 trait points, toxic oil/stone/crystal, rune set, &c.) to hit the +50% threshold, which is quite significant for many abilities..

Your being a bit one sided in your view here. Vitality, toughness, precession, ferocity, and power are all stats that can be combined with oils, traits, and stat lines that work additively with it as well. Your attempting to imply this is specific only to one food type, and that is completely untrue.

As well, you mention the extra tic of damage you get if the skill has 3s or more of duration, while power or precision for example, effects every damage skill out there, as well as the lower direct damage attached to condition application skills. I am fairly certain that over all, DPS is gained from power food to a larger percentage increase then condition over all dps is with this food.

Maybe, if you only compare burning/bleeding to the damage gains. That’s a pretty convenient ignorance of all of the other controlling conditions that impact a fight, though. For example, this food alone adds 3.2 seconds to the 5 stacks of Confusion on interrupt that Perplexity runes provide. How are you calculating that in to the impact it has on a fight? In fact, with only the Perplexity runes and +40% duration food, you can get that 5 stacks of Confusion up to a 13.6 second duration on a 15 second cooldown. That’s almost 100% uptime on 5 stacks of confusion, requiring you to either have your cleanses timed perfectly to do damage in that window before you just get re-confused and start destroying yourself, or you just leave the fight because you’ll destroy yourself before you do anything productive against the sort of classes who use these runes.

How about the effect of an extra 2-3 seconds of chill on multiple abilities? Or another 1+ seconds of immobilize? Now we’re entering “just use -40% condi duration” territory, which is the whole point: one is incredibly strong in certain situations without the other, such that it’s crippling to the experience.

dancingmonkey.4902:

I am fairly certain that over all, DPS is gained from power food to a larger percentage increase then condition over all dps is with this food.

Of course it is. Conditions do a fixed DPS that is not improved by improving condition duration, but this doesn’t take into consideration how conditions work. Extending the duration of the condition is the most effective way to improve the total damage of the ability, even if it’s DPS is slightly lower.

For instance, if you take +100 condition damage, you’d gain 25 extra damage on you burn ticks, and thus have better damage each tick than someone who took +40% condition duration. However, the person who took the duration may gain an extra tick or two, meaning their ability does a a few hundred points more damage over its full duration. So while you can gain better DPS with higher condition damage, the best way to improve condition damage in the longer term is to also have high condition duration.

Also consider that something like confusion does not work on a per tick basis, and can heal heavy damage to someone who simply tries to heal themselves. This can be used to either have people kill themselves or shut someone down for an extended period of time.

Conditions like poison also reduce healing effects by 33%, and applying a long duration poison to someone can severely damage their sustainability.

Also consider the non-damaging conditions. For instance, +50% condition duration will boost a warrior’s throw bolas ability from a 4 second immobilize to a 6 second immobilize. The pizza with its +40% condition duration increase allows someone to reach this threshold incredibly easily, allowing the utility to be much more potent than it already is.

On the flip side, if you choose not to use such condition duration boosting food, your conditions may simply be completely useless against someone that is running the condition duration reduction food. For instance, let’s say you’re playing a rifle-based warrior running 0/6/0/2/6, which has no direct investment in any condition duration. Part of your build is to control the enemy with immobilize and then hit them with high damage attacks. Normally, an opponent may be able to obtain a something like a 58% passive reduction in the duration of the immobilize (i.e. warrior with dogged march and melandru runes). For something like throw bolas, this means you’d get a 1.5-2 second immobilize, which is much less powerful but still allows you to CC the opponent. When the soup comes into play, this jumps to a 98% reduction in the immobilize duration, meaning your throw bolas effective does nothing, and you cannot CC your opponent in that fashion at all. You are forced to use the pizza if you simply want any effect from your immobilizes at all.

If the foods were reduced to +/- 10% or 20%, they could still have a significant effect but be much less extreme in what they do.

It’s also just a very powerful bonus compared to other things in the game. For instance, you can attribute an entire sigil slot to gain +20% duration to a single condition type, but this consumable food provides double the bonus to all conditions that you can possibly apply.

What if they made trait points provide an equivalent amount of condition duration? For instance, what if they buffed it so that an engineer investing in explosives gains an additional 20% condition duration for each point spent instead of the current 5%. Would that be “balanced” the same way the pizza is because it can’t guarantee extra condition ticks and a lot of its “potential” is “wasted”? What if the WvW bloodlust bonuses gave an extra +40% condition duration to the side that owned it. Would that be just a tiny effect that wouldn’t have a very significant impact? I believe both such things would have profound effects on combat, and that is the state the pizza and soup are in at the moment.

IMO consumables such as the food should simply give you a bit of a statistical edge, similar to how to bloodlust buffs in WvW work right now. They shouldn’t be cornerstones of builds and be necessary in order to be competitive. I feel playing Consumable Wars 2 is not a healthy thing overall for the competitive environment.

Oh, I didn’t know people gave a kitten about balance in WvW. This is news to me.

While we’re at it, lets eliminate the Dire nomenclature and Perplexity Rune. Perhaps buff some classes that see close to no play? Hmm?

No? Oh well. I tried.

DiamondMeteor.8345:

Oh, I didn’t know people gave a kitten about balance in WvW. This is news to me.

While we’re at it, lets eliminate the Dire nomenclature and Perplexity Rune. Perhaps buff some classes that see close to no play? Hmm?

No? Oh well. I tried.

Foods like this, and actually runes like Perplexity, are going out of their way to try to ruin smaller-scale encounters that a niche community enjoys in WvW. No one is asking for class changes here that will impact other game modes. We just want the food to go away.

If this doesn’t impact you, I’m surprised you cared enough to take the time to post an opinion that you spent less than 5 seconds forming.

Tell us all why 40% condition duration food should exist. And while you’re at it, go ahead and explain why Perplexity runes should exist as well. I’ll wait. In fact, I can’t wait. I bet this is going to be delicious.

Oh don’t get me wrong, I’m totally on board with removing consumables as a whole. They introduce ridiculous power creep to the game. Lemongrass food in particular just trivializes condition users, which is totally unacceptable.

I was just wondering why more people haven’t really pressed the matter of balance as a whole for WvW. So many things need to be addressed in order to see more above standard play.

Kamikazi.5380:

Both foods gone completely. Reduce and increase condis from traits and abilities, not from cheesey food.

I don’t think there is cheese in this particular food.

On a more serious note, this game needs -condition duration more then +. Thus, nerfing both equally will only favor the condition user, which, definitely in this WvW meta, is bad. Any class can easily still get +30% condition duration increase via traitlines, and often high increases in duration for single conditions.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Foods like this, and actually runes like Perplexity, are going out of their way to try to ruin smaller-scale encounters that a niche community enjoys in WvW. No one is asking for class changes here that will impact other game modes. We just want the food to go away.

I feel like with Perplexity, the issue is more in that it highlights just how much certain classes – read Engineer & Warrior – can interrupt their targets to control them.

It’s especially fascinating because Mesmers are the ones with multiple daze effects and lots and lots of traits dedicated to interrupting. But as far as being able to interrupt in the first place – not what happens when you do – Mesmers are actually pretty bad at it.

And I suspect Perplexity was balanced for Mesmers. Not for Warriors or Engineers.

Cygnus.6903:

Kamikazi.5380:

Both foods gone completely. Reduce and increase condis from traits and abilities, not from cheesey food.

I don’t think there is cheese in this particular food.

On a more serious note, this game needs -condition duration more then +. Thus, nerfing both equally will only favor the condition user, which, definitely in this WvW meta, is bad. Any class can easily still get +30% condition duration increase via traitlines, and often high increases in duration for single conditions.

I don’t know where this is coming from. I see it on the forum from time to time but I don’t see any of it ingame. Playing in Gold league with no conditionremoval aside from runes that give -20% and at this point I haven’t died to conditions in a looong time. If anything condi-users need a buff in large scale wvw.

Reducing both those foods to 10% would be really good. Please do.

In large scale WvW this food is irrelevant. Try roaming.

Cygnus.6903:

In large scale WvW this food is irrelevant. Try roaming.

In large-scale the -duration becomes weird though. Really, the foods are both bad.

There should be a major split between damaging and control conditions, both in durations and cleansing.

Sad thing, but it’s needed. If some god kitten warrior on WvW is almost immune to almost all of your control abilities without even pressing a god kitten button there’s something broken in here.

“Playing in Gold league with no conditionremoval aside from runes that give -20% and at this point I haven’t died to conditions in a looong time. "

I’ve been standing in Gendarren Fields for 2 hours without moving and didnt die to conditions – clearly this food is not a problem. On a serious note the food is OP by itself, but its simply ridiculously OP if compared to OTHER FOOD. Its almost like built-in perma-weakness to a power build. People stacking it with melandru & traits are IMMUNE to soft CC.. i mean wtf… just because im not condi based doesnt mean i dont need my cripples and immobilize to work..

Why not just remove all food from any pvp scenerio. Like it is in Spvp

I dont understand why you NEED food in WvW.

+ 40% Cond duration in WvW are a joke. In a group fight they get cleansed so fast it’ll make your head spin so the added duration doesn’t matter.

If you’re running around solo or in a very small group and decide to not take conditions into consideration in favor of other things, then you run that risk and it’s a tradeoff. You could still pop that -40% food whenever you want to counter it anyways though.

OP must just want to not have to deal with conds what so ever in WvW. WvW is and has always been a power meta.

I was mainly addressing the effects on the roaming / havoc size WvW groups – not zerg v zerg. My most frequently played characters are a Warrior that I just switched from power to condi after the patch and a power Guardian. As others have stated, +/- 40% duration is just too swingy. It needs to be toned down a lot (perhaps even more than my original suggestion). I’m not in the camp of getting rid of all food (consumables in general are a staple of MMOs), but it seems odd that a single food would have more effect than a maxed out trait line. And I feel for the power users who want their cc condi’s to stick for at least an approximation of the original duration.

Ok… so you’re complaining about one small (nearly meaningless) part of one game mode that isn’t balanced worth a kitten in the first place? Well ok then, I disagree that things should be nerfed based on that.

If anything conds need a buff in WvW and cleansing needs a nerf so that it can be useful in larger scale fights.

Inb4 some one claims their small team actually made a difference in who won that week because of this food.

Nah the reason to nerf them is because the global duration foods offer a disproportionate benefit when compared to trait lines and other foods, regardless of the game mode they affect.

If they only mess up an unimportant section of the game then it won’t be terrible to have them adjusted to sane values.

Now global cleanse spam is another issue entirely.

Overkillengine.6084:

Nah the reason to nerf them is because the global duration foods offer a disproportionate benefit when compared to trait lines and other foods, regardless of the game mode they affect.

If they only mess up an unimportant section of the game then it won’t be terrible to have them adjusted to sane values.

Now global cleanse spam is another issue entirely.

Prove it. Do a break down of how much more condition damage is done for condi skills across a few professions and figure up what percent that increases the skulls damage. Then do the same thing with other offensive foods and skills that relate to them.

For example, someone recently did this with every engineer skill. The end result was that condition DPS over 60s increased 9.7%. The DPS of direct damage over 60s increased 10.1%. The gear was dire to soldier comparison.

I never checked the numbers on this case myself, because I feel the food is finw. Based on my experience. But since your making claims, what did your test show? Mind sharing your testing process, while your at it? Thank you.

coglin.1867:

Overkillengine.6084:

Nah the reason to nerf them is because the global duration foods offer a disproportionate benefit when compared to trait lines and other foods, regardless of the game mode they affect.

If they only mess up an unimportant section of the game then it won’t be terrible to have them adjusted to sane values.

Now global cleanse spam is another issue entirely.

Prove it. Do a break down of how much more condition damage is done for condi skills across a few professions and figure up what percent that increases the skulls damage. Then do the same thing with other offensive foods and skills that relate to them.

For example, someone recently did this with every engineer skill. The end result was that condition DPS over 60s increased 9.7%. The DPS of direct damage over 60s increased 10.1%. The gear was dire to soldier comparison.

I never checked the numbers on this case myself, because I feel the food is finw. Based on my experience. But since your making claims, what did your test show? Mind sharing your testing process, while your at it? Thank you.

I never bothered checking the numbers because play experience has already shown me that if I run +40% duration food on a condi build versus some poor schlub who is not using -40% food or Melandru runes they have no chance of cleansing enough of my conditions before I melt them unless they get immediate assistance from an ally.

And the other way around when I have ran condition builds or condition reliant power builds in small scale fights, if I do not run that food, I am kittening in the wind the moment I come up against a player stacking lemongrass and Melandru.

And when neither of us is using those foods the fight is often much more ambiguous in outcome. As it should be.

So no. You are not entitled to any sort of log or testing from me by your own logic, because in my experience using all sides of them the 40% foods are not fine. They offer a self evidently disproportionate bonus for a consumable. What logic makes it even remotely balanced for one particular set of food to offer a similar level of bonus to a freaking trait line?

And quite frankly I am not going to go to the effort because I can tell you already don’t want to be convinced, or you’d satisfy your curiosity for the numbers yourself.

Now here is where you might make some side point about large scale blah blah blah etc: I already run with a warrior guard train using trooper runes and shout spam and water fields so I don’t care there because any adjustment to the duration food is going to be irrelevant anyways at that scale of spam cleansing.

This duration foods are literally one of the only areas in the entire game where conditions could stand to be reigned in. The base conditions aren’t even that bad, it’s just a particular set of duration boosters/reducers that are on NOS compared to everything else of their type.

Although I think it is an unreasonable request (because it seems folks prefer to make claims based on assertions rather then facts, because often the fact counter their desired change) I would love to see some comparison facts by those suggesting it is an issue. The problem I see though, is that we will run into anecdotal claims. They will only show the math best on the extremes. Such as the rarer long duration skills compared to the lowest damage skills of direct damage sets. Not offering a broad spectrum, intentionally.

Hopefully, we can get a more honest comparison then that. But I won’t get my hopes up.

My fears are confirmed by the post above. Antidotal claims with no actual facts tied to it offer nothing constructive. As well they are easily skewed or misrepresented.

Do you guys need a data log to see that the sky is freaking blue as well?

I’m not going to the effort of testing something already confirmed by repeated experiences on both ends of the equations.

You want it and think it is the only thing of value in this discussion? Go get it your kitten selves.

Plus, no amount of logs will accurately model what happens in actual combat because they have no easily interpretable way of showing how a few extra seconds of the non damaging conditions can drastically skew how much dps they dealt and took due to positioning and other moving variables. Part of that is the nature of the combat system and the fact that the combat log itself is criminally vague.

So even if I could be bothered to parse a log of numbers; they are not going to even reflect the overall picture.

Literally the only way to see how the duration foods affect small scale combat is to pony up and use them and observe what happens. Assuming you have two competent parties engaging in good faith. (Both playing to win outside of food selection.)

Steelo.4597:

“Playing in Gold league with no conditionremoval aside from runes that give -20% and at this point I haven’t died to conditions in a looong time. "

I’ve been standing in Gendarren Fields for 2 hours without moving and didnt die to conditions – clearly this food is not a problem. On a serious note the food is OP by itself, but its simply ridiculously OP if compared to OTHER FOOD. Its almost like built-in perma-weakness to a power build. People stacking it with melandru & traits are IMMUNE to soft CC.. i mean wtf… just because im not condi based doesnt mean i dont need my cripples and immobilize to work..

Uhm you do realize I’m for a change?

Edit: Instead of +/-40% on all conditions they should do it related to fixed conditions just like on the runes of the centaur. (-50% against cripple) (not 50% just because of food…)

coglin.1867:

Overkillengine.6084:

Nah the reason to nerf them is because the global duration foods offer a disproportionate benefit when compared to trait lines and other foods, regardless of the game mode they affect.

If they only mess up an unimportant section of the game then it won’t be terrible to have them adjusted to sane values.

Now global cleanse spam is another issue entirely.

Prove it. Do a break down of how much more condition damage is done for condi skills across a few professions and figure up what percent that increases the skulls damage. Then do the same thing with other offensive foods and skills that relate to them.

For example, someone recently did this with every engineer skill. The end result was that condition DPS over 60s increased 9.7%. The DPS of direct damage over 60s increased 10.1%. The gear was dire to soldier comparison.

I never checked the numbers on this case myself, because I feel the food is finw. Based on my experience. But since your making claims, what did your test show? Mind sharing your testing process, while your at it? Thank you.

Why do people insist on discounting non-damaging conditions when they evaluate the power of 40% condi duration food? It’s like intentional blindness, and it’s making me ultra sad.

Overkillengine.6084:

Do you guys need a data log to see that the sky is freaking blue as well?

I’m not going to the effort of testing something already confirmed by repeated experiences on both ends of the equations.

Kind of making the argument for the guy your arguing against here aren’t you?

We are supposed to take your word for it? You could be the worst skilled player in the game for all we know. You could be the best. You may be completely biased for no reason. The list for not taking “your word for it” as a reason to change something, could just about fill up the Grand Canyon.

When you refuse to offer any actual facts, all your doing is confirming to Anet, that there is no need to make a change. As someone who sees no need for a change, I thank you.

You also suggest you need damage logs. I do not have any idea how you came to that conclusion. All you have to do is simply look at the condition damage of a skill. Add the food to it. If a 40% increase adds another tic, then viola. You now know what damage is added to said skill. If 40% is not enough to add another tic, then you know it adds zero damage to the skill. The tool tips are very generally accurate across the board for condition damage skills.

Direct damage is considerably easy to calculate with food to compare it to before food in order to calculate the increased percentage. Figuring the DPS from there, based on cool down duration is simple.

Personally, I feel you do not care to figure it up out of the concern of proving your own claims to be reasonably inaccurate, but that is just my opinion. If you were so certain you were correct, one would think you would jump at the chance to prove it so easily.

LunarNacht.8913:

Edit: Instead of +/-40% on all conditions they should do it related to fixed conditions just like on the runes of the centaur. (-50% against cripple) (not 50% just because of food…)

Personally, I can see a lot of logic in separating damaging conditions and damaging conditions. The problem then lies in where we lay the distinction. Vulnerability and confusion for example do literally 0 damage in themselves. The possible damage from either is extremely situation and ofen depends entirely on what other do with them in place.

Now if we are discussing this in terms of soft CC such as a separate food for cripple, chill and immobilize, while all other conditions fall under a separate food, then the dynamics of the discussion change entirely.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Overkillengine.6084:

Do you guys need a data log to see that the sky is freaking blue as well?

I’m not going to the effort of testing something already confirmed by repeated experiences on both ends of the equations.

Kind of making the argument for the guy your arguing against here aren’t you?

We are supposed to take your word for it? You could be the worst skilled player in the game for all we know. You could be the best. You may be completely biased for no reason. The list for not taking “your word for it” as a reason to change something, could just about fill up the Grand Canyon.

When you refuse to offer any actual facts, all your doing is confirming to Anet, that there is no need to make a change. As someone who sees no need for a change, I thank you.

You also suggest you need damage logs. I do not have any idea how you came to that conclusion. All you have to do is simply look at the condition damage of a skill. Add the food to it. If a 40% increase adds another tic, then viola. You now know what damage is added to said skill. If 40% is not enough to add another tic, then you know it adds zero damage to the skill. The tool tips are very generally accurate across the board for condition damage skills.

Direct damage is considerably easy to calculate with food to compare it to before food in order to calculate the increased percentage. Figuring the DPS from there, based on cool down duration is simple.

Personally, I feel you do not care to figure it up out of the concern of proving your own claims to be reasonably inaccurate, but that is just my opinion. If you were so certain you were correct, one would think you would jump at the chance to prove it so easily.

LunarNacht.8913:

Edit: Instead of +/-40% on all conditions they should do it related to fixed conditions just like on the runes of the centaur. (-50% against cripple) (not 50% just because of food…)

Personally, I can see a lot of logic in separating damaging conditions and damaging conditions. The problem then lies in where we lay the distinction. Vulnerability and confusion for example do literally 0 damage in themselves. The possible damage from either is extremely situation and ofen depends entirely on what other do with them in place.

Now if we are discussing this in terms of soft CC such as a separate food for cripple, chill and immobilize, while all other conditions fall under a separate food, then the dynamics of the discussion change entirely.

I refuse to do testing for you or anyone else because I already know it won’t offer a complete enough picture to prevent goalpost moving, which makes it a wasted effort on my part. If I thought people were going to take the data in good faith, and I could present complete enough data with the tools available (you can’t outside of direct observation) then I might bother.

Literally thanks to how combat works in this game and the combat log works, the only way for you to get a complete picture is for you to get two opposing competent parties to agree in good faith to repeated direct combat.

Everything else is theory craft at best, because doing a bunch of pretty princess math alone does not show the boost in combat effectiveness a build gets when ALL of the conditions it has, damaging or otherwise, gets a 40% duration extension (barring cleanse) or gets a 40% reduction in the same.

When someone gets out of range because your immob/cripple/chill did not last long enough or even stick, you deal 0% of your current damage potential to them, condition or otherwise.

And when they last 40% longer than normal, the opposite happens…..the enemy can’t maneuver effectively and ends up eating far more damage than they normally would have.

Or when you run out of endurance early and can’t dodge reapplication/burst.

Basically any test or calculation that isn’t actual combat (which I have already performed and observed first hand nearly two thousand hours even as a mediocre and intermittent player) isn’t going to tell you kitten so it’s just pointless pontificating and kittening to even ask for it. You’ll note I did not commit the error of demanding mathematical proof of the opposite stance that the conditions foods don’t dramatically affect small scale combat…..gee it might because I already know that on paper math alone isn’t going to show enough data?

The closest you could get to accurately simulating in a controlled environment what the 40% global condition foods do to small group combat is is the sPvP cage matches, but food isn’t allowed in those. And if it was, Anet would likely have already nuked the the global condition duration foods from orbit with the nerf cannon.

Because then they’d have statistics that were filtering out large scale combat.

So, what your saying is, you are sticking to the idea that it is over powered based on absolutely no facts, even though in multiple other threads, it has been shown how one can very literally display the damage food effects every skill?

Well, I will have to disagree with your assessment. Based on the threads previously, in which players posted facts they determined along side the method at which they reached those facts. Although I am sure you are an impeccable player, I simply find it to difficult to take your “cause I said so” statements over posters who strive to present an argument with actual evidence.

dancingmonkey.4902:

So, what your saying is, you are sticking to the idea that it is over powered based on absolutely no facts, even though in multiple other threads, it has been shown how one can very literally display the damage food effects every skill?

Well, I will have to disagree with your assessment. Based on the threads previously, in which players posted facts they determined along side the method at which they reached those facts. Although I am sure you are an impeccable player, I simply find it to difficult to take your “cause I said so” statements over posters who strive to present an argument with actual evidence.

So the only facts you accept are damage spreadsheet facts? How did you calculate Confusion damage, I wonder? Effect of weakness/chill/immob/cripple? How about the effect of the -40% duration food on those who don’t take +40% for those utility conditions?

I have to agree. There are a lot of post on this topic that break it down and explain it in a reasonable, provable, and practical manner. The only reason I can see for not offering actual evidence, is either because of a direct biased dislike for the food being used against those showing bias with no evidence, or a concern for discovering ones bias is inaccurate.

As far as this discussion goes, it has been had over and over repeatedly. Everyone who claims the food is over powered refuses to offer actual evidence, while those who disagree comparative evidence.

As was pointed out earlier, since we are going on the “cause I said so” rule, as I read it stated. The food is perfectly fine because I say so. To elaborate in the nature of many on this thread, my experience with it suggest it makes congruent damage changes to that of other food. thus no changes are necessary.