Guild Wars 2

GWEN
Guardian
Warrior
Elementalist
Necromancer

These four classes have utter control over the battlefield in WvW. Other classes have minor niches they are welcome to fill but outsider of roamers and support roles Thief Ranger Engineer and Mesmer or TREM for short.

TREM Classes are useful in roaming still but when it comes to team play they are lacking. however each class has one or two builds where they can be of useful support for example Venom thief spirit ranger or heal mantra/glamour mesmers.

GWEN however has their roaming builds and their support builds while they are also capable of performing ZvZ damage or damage sponging. GWEN classes have high survivability and high front end damage, I will explain reasoning for each Class below.

Guardians are heavy armored and are equipped with two survival class mechanics and one damage centered class mechanic, these mechanics are labeled virtues and while they are minor they are sufficiently effective at keeping a guardian alive and dealing significant damage in every potential build. In addition to this guardians have a “ward” on both their hammer and their staff to provide area denial in team fights which a single ward will split the enemy zerg into those with and those without stability to instantly separate the enemy zergs heavy and tank focused players from their damage focused players.

Warriors every weapon a warrior wields is a beating stick let us not dodge around that bush. their survivability in zergs is astonishing thanks to their unrivaled condition removal and their surprising mobility for a heavy class. the adrenaline class feature provides very effective utility/damage spikes based on your weapon used but is ultimately not as defensive as those on the guardian.

Elementalist these guys are easy enough to kill but they have two significant options they can go either dagger/dagger and build a little more survival into their baseline stats or they can go full zerker and go staff either one will deal significant damage in a flashy aoe style that only the next class on the list can hold a candle to. The class mechanic on elementalist is the most powerful it opens up 4 skill bars based on your weapon instead of one. this allows dagger/dagger players to have an unlimited amount of sustainable aoe dps, while it allows the staff players to have access to a “ward” a “stun circle” one large radius team regen one small radius team burst heal and one auto attack aoe heal (team heal via auto attack is only available via the guardian elite support book) a push a team swiftness a projectile reflect and an escape. not to mention the most impressive selection of combo fields in the game.

Necromancer these monsters on the field have two primary build preferences condition or power condition builds focus on dealing excessive amounts of bleed with some weakness/fumble and cripple and blinds to debilitate the enemy to reduce their outgoing damage to support the tanks while dealing significant damage themselves. this build is usually countered by a decent warrior. power build necromancer are often known as “well bombers” a very honest metaphor in my opinion they usually run with trait to make wells use ground targeting well of corruption well of suffering and well of darkness (with chill on blind) the combination of these three wells deals an average of 3k per tick per target (up to 5 targets per tick per well) but the real power of these wells is one of them puts both blindness and chill on each target hit another strips the warriors and guardians of their boons (easily the most powerful part of their builds) and stacks conditions on those warriors and guardians based on the boons removed and the other simply deals impressive damage enough to force anyone who stepped in it to spend their heal or endurance to dodge out of the well. while this is all pretty impressive and incredibly destructive let us not forget bombers are heavily armored slow moving behemoths to that end we have death shroud giving the already 20k+ necro healthbar another 12k along with a few more offensive skills to keep the necromancer dealing sufficient damage while he waits for his wells to come off cooldown for another bombing run. if the necromancer does not feel threatened after finishing his bombing run he will usually use either plague or lich form to dish out conditions or raw damage based on that characters power/condition damage ratio. the chaos of plague is substantial while the damage of lich form is just cruel 5 bone minions will follow and attack whoever you use your lich form auto attack on which can and will crit for 5k because of the stat bonuses you obtain while in lich form. you can burn a thief in a single lich form auto attack if you have already summoned your bone minions. All of this aside the weapon skills on necromancer are not powerful compared to those of the other units of GWEN but still outshine TREM by a small margin.

Now then the question stands with 8 classes why are only 4 of them ZvZ useful? I understand warrior being the most powerful it happens balance issues happen and sure i understand thief being worthless its kinda the class is build for 1v1 whats it going to really do in 10v10 but why hate on Rangers? what is war without a bowman? What is war without engineers? And mesmer is so unique it has unstoppable potential as a strategic class. lets see more effective glamours or some true chaos storm.

I think its important to highlight that in the GWEN it is mostly the Guardians and Warriors. These two professions are the linchpin. Necro and Elementalist are merely there, in smaller numbers, to support the Guardians and Warriors. And if it wasnt for the Guardians and Warriors doing what they do, Necros and Eles wouldnt be able to do their role.

This is a very key issue to the game in its state, and has been for a long time, more then a year infact. The game is dominated by Guardians and Warriors. PvE, WvW, sPvP, its Guardian/Warrior centric and these two professions are as a result off the scales when it comes to representation.
Both of them absolutely dwarving the population of Mesmers, Rangers or Engineers. Or really anyone, save perhaps Thieves.

I’ve been thinking about this lately too. Based on Arenanet’s statements and actions, I feel like they want wvw to be mostly siege-warfare and less about open field combat. I’m sure they don’t like how powerful zergs can be and would prefer more coordination and many smaller groups working together to attack and defend.

What I’m saying is, perhaps the exclusiveness of GWEN is not the problem, but rather the benefits of zerging vs not zerging. Something as simple as making it so in wvw, when you give people the boons swiftness, only members of your party can receive it, might change the entire game dynamic and break up that GWEN zerg.

Or maybe not. You’re right that Guardians and Warriors scale REALLY well in the game – from solo content to the biggest, zergiest stuff, to the toughest PvE content and right back through the most hard core of WvW and PvP.

Rangerdeity.5847:

GWEN
…

You can play what you want and how you want it.

SafiMoyo.5130:

… Based on Arenanet’s statements and actions, I feel like they want wvw to be mostly siege-warfare and less about open field combat.

Where do you see those statements and actions? It does not look like that.

The truth is Guardians and Warriors are the most unbalanced professions in the game when it comes to “zerging”. Guardians have traits like Altruistic Healing where they can full heal with Empower, clerics dodge roll spamming, Elite Tome 1 heal spamming (also full heals) and a heap of boons.

And Warriors well…Do I even need to explain these guys have got Healing Signet, Earthshaker, Cleansing Ire (to remove conditions), Highest base stats and an Elite WarBanner to res 5 downed allies.

Both of them are what makes “Zergs” strong and it will continue that way because of the “Hammer Train” meta. Both classes are easy to learn for most players and perform very well. That’s my opinion about this anyway.

Some Game Mechanics are simply stronger than others.

Guardians and Warrior’s are build on top of these Game mechanics like boons/ AoE hard CC via Hammer / Power damage with cleave) which makes them so strong.
While other classes have more situational tools, those two classes simple excel in those powerful mechanics and these mechanics have shown to be the most profitable in GW2 and in Zergs.

i used to main a mesmer and actually was useful in wvw zvz before glam nerf. since then we got more 1v1 and ai heavy builds and my mes has turned into a boring utility bot which is mainly veil . the lack of aoe, stability and condi removal made it very unfun to play my class, so i moved over to necro as i like caster. i m giving up on mes being viable in zvz again as anet made them too strong in spvp and took everything we had in zvz away…splittling spvp and wvw balance would be a good start if anet ever wants to balance this game.

frans.8092:

Rangerdeity.5847:

GWEN
…

You can play what you want and how you want it.

SafiMoyo.5130:

… Based on Arenanet’s statements and actions, I feel like they want wvw to be mostly siege-warfare and less about open field combat.

Where do you see those statements and actions? It does not look like that.

I actually do play necro as a main in WvW my ele is actually my dungeon class and my guardian is my upcoming zerg support class for when the zerg doesnt have enough front line players. i tried TREM classes every single one of them i tweaked around with them in the mists to see if there was ANY survivable damage or tank focused builds the problem with them is they are all skirmish and evasion based which means nothing when the ground is one giant red circle a thief can be in stealth all he likes but if he thinks he is going to do anything more than pick off someone from the very back of the enemy ranks then get merced because he went to the back alone he is fooling himself. if an engi thinks he is going to start dropping turrets within range of the enemy he is crazy those things will get blown up before they even finish deploying.

Here’s the real explanation of why GWEN is used and why other professions aren’t as common.

Guardians bring group boons and group condition removal. The most important boons are Stability, Protection, Might, and Swiftness. Stability renders most of that warrior and guardian CC useless. No other profession can bring as much group Stability. That’s why guardians will always have a major role in WvW groups.

Warriors don’t really do much anymore. They were really popular with hammer trains, but once players started running more stability and damage shifted to backline, their usefullness greatly decreased. Also, in a WvW group, warriors rarely need Cleansing Ire. The condi cleanse is coming from guardians, elementalists, and warrior warhorn as well as the -40% condition duration food.

Elementalists are almost always staff. You sometimes see d/d for boons with the frontline. Elementalists provide water fields, lots of utility through CC, boons, and condition cleanse, and area damage. Most run a balance between offense and defense and rely on cantrip utility skills to live.

Necromancers have become a huge damage source. In WvW groups, they’re running power because condition damage is near useless due to all the condition removal. Necros can project heavy damage at range and can pile on AoE damage bursts as well. They can also spec and gear for some utility to help the frontline.

And the others?

A thief or two are found 10-30 player groups. They pick off enemy necromancers and elementalists and anyone that’s out of place. But they have to know when to stop chasing. Most thief players just keep attacking until their target dies or they die and then complain about their profession being weak.

WvW groups have a token mesmer for portal, veil, and sometimes null field. The problem with mesmers is that they’re heavily reliant on clones or phantasms, and both of those are ripped apart by all the cleave that goes out.

Engineers just can’t compete with others. They’re a little like warriors and a little like necromancers or elementalists in their role. They have CC like the warrior, but a lot of it is negated by stability. But their self-survival isn’t as good. They have good medium ranged damage like necromancer or elmentalist, but their AoE damage isn’t as good. They have water fields with Healing Turret like an elementalist, but the elmentalist also provides boons. And Engineer a bit more vulnerable to thieves than elementalists and necromancers. Healing bomb engineers don’t have the boon output of a guardian.

Ranger just doesn’t work well in large groups. The pet has the same problem as mesmer illusions where it dies too easily and takes away utility and damage. Ranger melee is focused more on small fights and jousting, not just constant attacking. Longbow just isn’t as good for damage as elementalists or necros. And rangers have little group utility that can survive the cleave damage in a large group.

I feel thief requires an effective bunker build with cleave options. and ranger needs just longer range and make all their bow skills penetrating. engineer however needs a total rework. engineer mortar should be self firing. their shield should have a ward on it and they should have turret kit. one that drops high health low damage turrets with specific effect. engineers should be the defensive line that provides cripple weakness and blind on the front lines. while ranger should be the long range artillery that can shoot straight to the rear lines or hit everything on the front line with easy or at the very least be the only class that is effective firing up/down from walls

Ranged in WvW groups is rarely at max range. They’re within 600 range of their frontline so they can get boons. Increasing range on anything and improving things that deploy and are static won’t help.

Exedore.6320:

Ranged in WvW groups is rarely at max range. They’re within 600 range of their frontline so they can get boons. Increasing range on anything and improving things that deploy and are static won’t help.

while this is for the most part correct these changes would give these classes that fail during skirmishes in the open field a huge advantage when the fight comes to tower/keep walls because those fights rage on the same spot for 10 minutes and range is your best friend in those fights. This gives skirmish fights to GWEN and Standoffs to TREM so that all 8 classes have something usefull to bring to WvW

Rangerdeity.5847:

while this is for the most part correct these changes would give these classes that fail during skirmishes in the open field a huge advantage when the fight comes to tower/keep walls because those fights rage on the same spot for 10 minutes and range is your best friend in those fights. This gives skirmish fights to GWEN and Standoffs to TREM so that all 8 classes have something usefull to bring to WvW

So basically, they’re still useless? Elementalists and Necros already have the wall suppression covered and they work in open field too. Wall sieges are a very small part. A lot of the fighting is defending offensive siege or trying to push into a keep against another force.

Exedore.6320:

Rangerdeity.5847:

while this is for the most part correct these changes would give these classes that fail during skirmishes in the open field a huge advantage when the fight comes to tower/keep walls because those fights rage on the same spot for 10 minutes and range is your best friend in those fights. This gives skirmish fights to GWEN and Standoffs to TREM so that all 8 classes have something usefull to bring to WvW

So basically, they’re still useless? Elementalists and Necros already have the wall suppression covered and they work in open field too. Wall sieges are a very small part. A lot of the fighting is defending offensive siege or trying to push into a keep against another force.

not really most necro only have real range on their staff and honestly a great necro doesnt run with staff. i feel if mortars became self firing and engi got a kit to place additional turrets at range we could see more use from them more range and penetrating arrows from rangers would make them more usefull in tower fights.

Rangerdeity.5847:

Elementalist … this allows dagger/dagger players to have an unlimited amount of sustainable aoe dps

Where can I find this unlimited sustained aoe dps tho?

Renny.6571:

Rangerdeity.5847:

Elementalist … this allows dagger/dagger players to have an unlimited amount of sustainable aoe dps

Where can I find this unlimited sustained aoe dps tho?

one must cross the great planes of intelligence and scale the mountain of skill in order to use this legendary build

Gwen.

Coincidence? I think not.

Renny.6571:

Rangerdeity.5847:

Elementalist … this allows dagger/dagger players to have an unlimited amount of sustainable aoe dps

Where can I find this unlimited sustained aoe dps tho?

Campfire Staff.

i love when people think necromancer they think only of conditions.
fact: power builds don’t contribute much in wvw
fact: the hate for necromancers comes from players lack of ability to equip a cleanse
want to beat a necromancer?
be a warrior
equip a hammer
????
PROFIT

[quote=4030484;frans.8092:]

Lightsbane.9012:

i love when people think necromancer they think only of conditions.
fact: power builds don’t contribute much in wvw

You mean “condition builds” right? Power builds are seemingly all that’s wanted in WvW.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lightsbane.9012:

i love when people think necromancer they think only of conditions.
fact: power builds don’t contribute much in wvw

You mean “condition builds” right? Power builds are seemingly all that’s wanted in WvW.

yeah because of the zergs condicleanse…condi necro is not wanted in my guild at all. we all run power necros, because of lemongrass, because of war not being vulnerable to condis….
thing is those 4 professions have very very clear roles in wvw.
all others:

mes is veil/tw/portal bot(we are not there to dmg, we are not there to do anything but that. because everything a mes has can be done easier and better by gwen or thief apart from veil,tw, portal.

thief: is the only one that is seen a lot in zergfights: they are gankers and there to pick off the backline necro and eles, so thief does have a spot

engi: seen them more often since the patch, but still not really a clear role apart from being annoying turret and granades spammers.

ranger: oh well they are there somehow and ive seen them more often, but not really noticed, mainly there to rapidfire backline down. competitive guilds dont really run any rangers.(hambow and killshot war can fill that spot way too easy)

It’s a mistake to think that “balance” means that every class represents 1/8th of a typical composition. Mesmers and Thieves are less represented than GWEN but they still serve extremely important functions. It’s only Rangers and Engineers, which are completely absent, which are underpowered.

Facet.5914:

It’s a mistake to think that “balance” means that every class represents 1/8th of a typical composition. Mesmers and Thieves are less represented than GWEN but they still serve extremely important functions. It’s only Rangers and Engineers, which are completely absent, which are underpowered.

by extreemly important u mean every 60 sec u get to put down a veil and if the server decides to golem rush u are allowed to portal gomes. oh and every 240 sec u can put tw, oooh joy this makes me soooo wanna play mes in wvw. this is suuuch great balance and the role of veilbot is soo much fun right?
seriously, every class should have access to a wvw group build. mm necro for example isnt very viable in wvw, but u can swap to power well necro and boom u are viable. in spvp u use a different build, thats how classes should be! every class should have access to a viable zvz raid build not just 4 classes and the rest is forced to reroll if they wanna actually have fun!
mes used to be viable in wvw during glamour, but since the mega nerf, there has been nothing given back to the mes in that department!
4 classes are viable, 1 is good to have(a few thieves),1 is the utilitybot(1mes for veil) and the rest we dont need at all.

People are severely underestimating Engineers. Rangers suck, though.

Rangerdeity.5847:

Elementalist these guys are easy enough to kill but they have two significant options they can go either dagger/dagger and build a little more survival into their baseline stats
The class mechanic on elementalist is the most powerful it opens up 4 skill bars based on your weapon instead of one. this allows dagger/dagger players to have an unlimited amount of sustainable aoe dps, while it allows the staff players to have access to a “ward” a “stun circle” one large radius team regen one small radius team burst heal and one auto attack aoe heal (team heal via auto attack is only available via the guardian elite support book) a push a team swiftness a projectile reflect and an escape. not to mention the most impressive selection of combo fields in the game.

I think you might want to play an ele in www before trying to discuss it.
WWW is most ly about damage negation or mobility.

Staff has actual damage negation in form of Ranged Attacks and thus is viable in zergs.
DD doesn t have nothing.
If you invest in survivability you can t kill anyone (any warrior, or thief will escape)
If you build for DPS you won t be able to survive anyone attacking you first.
If you go zerg you simply die since you have nothing to avoid the huge damage of the colliding zergs while being forced into short range.

CC is not that important since WWW is a lot about stability.

The “most powerful” class mechanic is instead a drawback.
Most ele skills are less effective than any counterpart, having less damage, longer cooldown, long channeling and shorter duration.

Ele is nothing near good except for traits boosting his damage (only thing that keeps ele alive) and the “waterbot” role that i d like to be removed from the class.

@op
Ranger here

Spirits are close to useless in wvw with the exception of the elite. However inwvw, unless you can be 100% sure guardians will grant you stability, you will have to run either traited signets or rao.

In wvw you got 4 builds
Crit tank melee zerger
Trapper (mostly roaming)
BM bunker (roaming)
Regen bunker (zerging or roaming, works really well in either role)

Spirit ranger is a pvp build, it is completely utterly useless in wvw. Even with perfect positioning, you cannot hope to keep the spirits alive more then 30 seconds at best.
One or two spirits supplementing a build isnt bsd but i could easily find better utilities with better uses.

Shouts produce up to 367 hp/second healing permanently, in addition to perma swiftness and condi cleanse to allies in an aoe.

I am posting this in a seperate post as well however i will link it here for the mesmers i think i finally found a viable damage build with impressive survival as well (it is condition tho) http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQRArf8cl0npVtVqxUNUrNSpBdqng6xEmmS6AcgKA-TFyCABAcSFO+JFAo+Bm3fwT1fyTDTiKBzS5XAgDgdrbdrbd3d3dP+4jP+4j3u7u7u7ubpAmUaE-w
under 25 kill stacks and 25 stacks of might neither of which are horribly hard in a zerg scepter 2 will deal 21k damage over 14 seconds. also your shatters and glams deal additional confusion and torment. and while warriors will just cleanse them you can rest assured you are tanky as you possibly can be so your more than welcome to come into the center of the field and start poking away with your swords to summon extra illusions for more shatters. one thing this build lacks however is gap closers and stun removal but in ZvZ you can do pretty well without those.

Awesome, depicting Necromancer as a decent class

First of all you don’t get 20k Hps unless you get Vitality on your gear; then you show again Death Shroud as an impressive ability giving more hps, when, effectively it is just strong in 1v1 with full Life Force and scales horribly in large fights, because the damage done will tear it apart in seconds.

Also, 5 bone minions mention from Lichform are the best part, they’re really scary…

The real problem is this game has not an inch of balance, its totally random made and a mindless ZergVZerg doesn’t make the situation better.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lightsbane.9012:

i love when people think necromancer they think only of conditions.
fact: power builds don’t contribute much in wvw

You mean “condition builds” right? Power builds are seemingly all that’s wanted in WvW.

funny joke dude. although i’m glad people are finally starting to realize a counter to uber conditions. the strange thing about power necros is that, like thief, (most of)their dps is single target. wells are the exception and so is lich form. i get focused so hard in wvw that my effectiveness is brought down to zero in a matter of seconds. (yay hammer trains while being a dagger necro) if zergs are having problems dealing with enemy necros i suggest they learn to use the real broken class more effectively: warrior.

Luke.4562:

Awesome, depicting Necromancer as a decent class

First of all you don’t get 20k Hps unless you get Vitality on your gear; then you show again Death Shroud as an impressive ability giving more hps, when, effectively it is just strong in 1v1 with full Life Force and scales horribly in large fights, because the damage done will tear it apart in seconds.

Also, 5 bone minions mention from Lichform are the best part, they’re really scary…

first of all 12k hp does not get ripped to pieces if you dont pretend your 1200 toughness necro is a front line you play mid lines right behind the warriors and guardians ans stay at axe range for the first impact of the fight. and when your down to killing all the good players after the bad ones have been roflstomped yes 5 bone minions will live long enough to kill someone i usually use them to target a thief and mesmer since they automatically focus attack whoever you attacked last so you can direct their damage with lich form auto attack which with a good zerker build hits for over 5k.

Lightsbane.9012:

funny joke dude. although i’m glad people are finally starting to realize a counter to uber conditions. the strange thing about power necros is that, like thief, (most of)their dps is single target. wells are the exception and so is lich form. i get focused so hard in wvw that my effectiveness is brought down to zero in a matter of seconds. (yay hammer trains while being a dagger necro) if zergs are having problems dealing with enemy necros i suggest they learn to use the real broken class more effectively: warrior.

might i suggest you first drop all your wells in the moment of impact with the enemy zerg and then use axe skills instead of thinking your a heavy armor class and going straight in for the dagger kill during the highest spike in damage in the entire fight? my dagger necro gets plenty of dagger kills. and for the record i use axe/dagger dagger/focus

Rangerdeity.5847:

Luke.4562:

Awesome, depicting Necromancer as a decent class

First of all you don’t get 20k Hps unless you get Vitality on your gear; then you show again Death Shroud as an impressive ability giving more hps, when, effectively it is just strong in 1v1 with full Life Force and scales horribly in large fights, because the damage done will tear it apart in seconds.

Also, 5 bone minions mention from Lichform are the best part, they’re really scary…

first of all 12k hp does not get ripped to pieces if you dont pretend your 1200 toughness necro is a front line you play mid lines right behind the warriors and guardians ans stay at axe range for the first impact of the fight. and when your down to killing all the good players after the bad ones have been roflstomped yes 5 bone minions will live long enough to kill someone i usually use them to target a thief and mesmer since they automatically focus attack whoever you attacked last so you can direct their damage with lich form auto attack which with a good zerker build hits for over 5k.

Lightsbane.9012:

funny joke dude. although i’m glad people are finally starting to realize a counter to uber conditions. the strange thing about power necros is that, like thief, (most of)their dps is single target. wells are the exception and so is lich form. i get focused so hard in wvw that my effectiveness is brought down to zero in a matter of seconds. (yay hammer trains while being a dagger necro) if zergs are having problems dealing with enemy necros i suggest they learn to use the real broken class more effectively: warrior.

might i suggest you first drop all your wells in the moment of impact with the enemy zerg and then use axe skills instead of thinking your a heavy armor class and going straight in for the dagger kill during the highest spike in damage in the entire fight? my dagger necro gets plenty of dagger kills. and for the record i use axe/dagger dagger/focus

some of us don’t use wells sport. they offer less survivability. i run a spectral build with plague signet which means i pull targets to me. i live longer than most necros but being a necro, 20 warriors with an instawin club>me. ranged or not.

learn to kite bro i run 3 wells and am always the last one standing i win by pure offense im a 100% assassin gear with zerker access (only because assassin doesnt have an acc set) and with that im rolling 20k hp before vit buff from guard def traits. and im ticking wells for 5k and i deal plenty of weakness blind and chill to reduce the out going damage on the “instawin club” learn to play bro just stop whining and learn to play warriors are my kitten

Rangerdeity.5847:

learn to kite bro i run 3 wells and am always the last one standing i win by pure offense im a 100% assassin gear with zerker access (only because assassin doesnt have an acc set) and with that im rolling 20k hp before vit buff from guard def traits. and im ticking wells for 5k and i deal plenty of weakness blind and chill to reduce the out going damage on the “instawin club” learn to play bro just stop whining and learn to play warriors are my kitten

i roll 21k before guard buff. yay. you seem more like you’re bragging rather than offering actual conjecture. necromancers have a problem with mobility, which is the main reason i die at all. i simply don’t like to run wells, so i don’t run them. also, how would you like me to kite when i’m running daggers? scratch that, it’s possible. i just do less damage. that and i don’t have a leap making kiting actually possible. or i could put on an axe, if i wanted to.

Rangerdeity.5847:

I am posting this in a seperate post as well however i will link it here for the mesmers i think i finally found a viable damage build with impressive survival as well (it is condition tho) http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQRArf8cl0npVtVqxUNUrNSpBdqng6xEmmS6AcgKA-TFyCABAcSFO+JFAo+Bm3fwT1fyTDTiKBzS5XAgDgdrbdrbd3d3dP+4jP+4j3u7u7u7ubpAmUaE-w
under 25 kill stacks and 25 stacks of might neither of which are horribly hard in a zerg scepter 2 will deal 21k damage over 14 seconds. also your shatters and glams deal additional confusion and torment. and while warriors will just cleanse them you can rest assured you are tanky as you possibly can be so your more than welcome to come into the center of the field and start poking away with your swords to summon extra illusions for more shatters. one thing this build lacks however is gap closers and stun removal but in ZvZ you can do pretty well without those.

i actually tried the same build for some time, but with my matchups, this build wont do much as the gwen just cleanses every singe condi in seconds.condi is not really viable because of lemongrass, melandru and war’s near immunity to condis.

I think it’s simple: TREM classes are there to fight the other TREM’s. Occasionally filling the spot of an EN (water fields, AoEs, buffs, softCC, etc…) then getting back to their job harrasing the backline and picking off targets.

Meanwhile the Warriors and Guardians are swinging their long-shafted tools in close combat achieving basically nothing. They are so OP they cannot kill even each other.
Eles and Necros are there to kill the warriors and guardians and prevent their getting killed. TREMs are there to killing the Eles and Necros and to prevent their own Eles and Necros are killed by the enemy TREMs.

Simple

Aggrostemma.1703:

I think it’s simple: TREM classes are there to fight the other TREM’s. Occasionally filling the spot of an EN (water fields, AoEs, buffs, softCC, etc…) then getting back to their job harrasing the backline and picking off targets.

Meanwhile the Warriors and Guardians are swinging their long-shafted tools in close combat achieving basically nothing. They are so OP they cannot kill even each other.
Eles and Necros are there to kill the warriors and guardians and prevent their getting killed. TREMs are there to killing the Eles and Necros and to prevent their own Eles and Necros are killed by the enemy TREMs.

Simple

So what you are saying is that GWcis useless and EN can be substituted by TREM. So in the end we only need TREM.

Prysin.8542:

Aggrostemma.1703:

I think it’s simple: TREM classes are there to fight the other TREM’s. Occasionally filling the spot of an EN (water fields, AoEs, buffs, softCC, etc…) then getting back to their job harrasing the backline and picking off targets.

Meanwhile the Warriors and Guardians are swinging their long-shafted tools in close combat achieving basically nothing. They are so OP they cannot kill even each other.
Eles and Necros are there to kill the warriors and guardians and prevent their getting killed. TREMs are there to killing the Eles and Necros and to prevent their own Eles and Necros are killed by the enemy TREMs.

Simple

So what you are saying is that GWcis useless and EN can be substituted by TREM. So in the end we only need TREM.

if you only have TREM, then GW will roll over it. see how it works? its basically rps

gw>trem>en>gw

this is why all competitive wvw guilds run all 3 types of roles.

@Prysin:

Sort of… Occasionally filling the spot of an EN

So TREM can be useful and they ARE but they cannot be the backbone of the “army”. The lack of area effects and “standing power” prevents it.

@wads: possibly the GW could roll over the same number of TREMs but since the TREM is spread it would be a time consuming procedure.

And you are right, it’s a RockPaperScissor. But what everybody sees is the clash of the GWEN toe-to-toe. TREMs are the forgotten heroes

Anyway, without the TREMs the WvW would be less fruitful since less lootbags. So they ARE the most important things in a zergfight (just kidding :P)