Guild Wars 2

I felt like playing an easy mode cheese build the other day, so i logged on my warrior and put his perplexity condi suit on, i found a mesmer and my first hit interrupted him and put 9 stacks of confusion on him, between my traits, food and runes i believe i was at +90% confusion duration so it wasnt going anywhere on its own. For the rest of the very short fight i was free to just do whatever i wanted because if he tried to fight back or heal or do anything he would just kill himself and since i believe confusion is one of the last condi’s cleansed he was never getting rid of it that way. It felt like i was fighting a pve mob, It was an incredibly boring fight for me and im sure he wasnt too trilled about it either.

It’s reached the point where the best runes for any possible condi class is always perplexity. When the rune set defines the build and not the class or the traits, you know something has gone too far.

Anet i think its about time you admit there is a problem and just remove perplexity from the game.

i hope when they redesign the runes perplexity gets changed, so it buffs existing confusion classes insted of giving interrupting classes such a huge buff. perplexity still makes other non confusion specialized classes stack confusion better and longer than mesmers which is a design flaw as it is more of a core mechanic of a condi mes.

2/10

I didn’t think the +duration even worked on those runes …

Between the ICDs and that fact, the runes are not all that great actually. Your story is a bit unbelievable.

Contrition.8945:

2/10

I didn’t think the +duration even worked on those runes …

Between the ICDs and that fact, the runes are not all that great actually. Your story is a bit unbelievable.

You’re forgetting that WvW has a lot of inexperienced players. One stack of 9 confusion on one player should never = can’t do anything gg.

I agree there are other sets that are just as good (at the very least).

If you are a P/D thief perp is good with 30 trick. Otherwise I wouldn’t run that on P/D.

Necro it’s kind of a waste

On mesmer it is meh .

The duration doesn’t work so they aren’t that good. Decent on a condi build with some interrupts like P/D thief 30 trick and engis’

Here’s a short vid of a perplexity warrior. A single interrupt vs a auto attack, 12 stacks instantly. I made this vid to argue for mesmer class confusion buffs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_XZBrJ1jJQ

Worse is a perplexity condi spam thief.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9BceGSMbEQ

That said, beatable even for a mesmer. They just need to bring appropriate condi cleansing (it is the meta). It’s more a matter of being aware of your condition bar and acting accordingly. Confusion is actually a very weak condition vs a mesmer, particularly when they have phantasms at play.

Didn’t they already nerf these?

I tried them awhile back before the nerf and didn’t like them. Took too long to kill people and mostly they were good for killing noobs who don’t know how to play against confusion. That’s not reliable in fights though.

Yes they did. They have an ICD on the proc now. The increased confusion duration on the runes still doesn’t work as well.

3/10, really. I mean come on, he made the effort to pretend that he has a char running the runes.

That being said, I find it funny when people run them:

• The +duration doesn’t work. Most don’t know this I suppose.
• The interrupt has a 10s ICD now, making it very questionable. It’s still ok on an Engineer or Warrior, but just barely so. And they have better options.
• The 3 stacks on attack work, but have rather low uptime. You get something like 1,2 stacks, which is significantly less damage than you get from the burn-on-heal runes.

These runes are OP on a Engineer, but on a warrior they are just terrible. Any class with condi removal should beat a Perp Warrior.

I play a condi P/D thief and I use these runes. The only interrupt in my build is steal at 22sec CD. I do this to “balance” the use of these runes, since I could use pistol off hand as second weapon set, or scorpion wire for easy abusing, but I do not want to play like this.

Also, I would like to use Tormenting or Balthazar runes instead. Sadly they do not work well with Withdraw, the healing skill I use (the 6 bonus triggers not when I press the heal, but at the end of animation when I’m away of my enemies). Please Fix it.

I tell you that these runes are very strong, even while the duration bonus does not work, and the 8 sec CD at 6th bonus that they added.

I would propose these changes:

a) Bonus 4: Add 1 stack with 10 sec CD, instead of 3 stacks at 15 sec CD.
b) Bonus 6: Add 3 stacks on interrupt at 20 sec CD.

I thought they somehow messed up with these runes. Does anyone remember when they first came in play, that they were bugged and the 6th bonus applied confusion on the user?
I think they wanted the rune to apply confusion to anyone interrupting YOU, that is why the came without CD. That would be actually very interesting, especially at the time, when CC warriors were everywhere.

Kanenas.4906:

I tell you that these runes are very strong, even while the duration bonus does not work, and the 8 sec CD at 6th bonus that they added.

Serious question: How are they strong?
They give you:

• 188 Malice
• ~0,8 stacks of Confusion from hitting, assuming you hit very fast and never ever take a break (checked the ICD again). In effect, every 16-18 seconds you proc 5s of 3 stacks Confusion
• 5 stacks of Confusion for 10s every ~22s at best in your case.

Not to say that they don’t do anything, but any other +Malice rune seems superior (where the effects actually work :P ).

The only situation in which I ever found these runes to be, well, maybe OP, was when fighting a condition engineer. He stacked ~20 stacks of confusion on me, along with the other stuff. I was outplayed, as I had used up most my condition clears, but still.

Then again, condition engineer is OP without the runes.

Yes but that was before the nerf, Cygnus. Back before it, Warriors and Engineers could keep you at 25 stacks continuously.

With my build (most of the time i fight with over 2k condition damage) 8 stacks of confusion is over 1700 damage per skill used.
Is it fair for a rune set?

if anybody gets beat by a perplexity warrior .... just ... uninstall the game. Lol.

Kanenas.4906:

With my build (most of the time i fight with over 2k condition damage) 8 stacks of confusion is over 1700 damage per skill used.
Is it fair for a rune set?

Considering that the runeset keeps ~4-5 stacks of Confusion up even with godlike interrupting, 850 or so damage per skill use seems quite ok.

That’s comparable to many other conditions, and this one is easier to get rid of.

Allow me to disagree. Even 850 damage per skill use is quite powerful for a rune set imho.
Also the 6th bonus (5 stacks on interrupt) has 10 sec base duration and 8 sec CD leading to 10 stacks and well over 2k damage per skill use! It should NEVER be possible out of a rune set!
Easy to overlap with plus condition duration food, and even without food.

And no, I do not need godlike skills to interrupt at will if i used a pistol offhand as a thief, or If I am an engineer.

These runes on an engie with crowbar is just pure hilarity.

lol, i love the people who claim i made up this story. Anyone who has played a class with perplexity im sure have similar stories.

You act like perplexity exists in a vacuum and confusion is the only condi that is put on people. Obviously noone not terrible is going to die from just confusion, but its the fact that on something like my condi warrior i can put up to 12 stacks of confusion in a single hit on someone, in addition to all the other condi’s i can put on, access to so much of a condition shouldnt be possible just from a rune set, and just makes it not fun for both people involved. The more condi’s a condi spec has access to the better it is, and giving every class access to lots of confusion was just wrong.

This runeset is rediculously OP. However, I am going to be roaming on a perplexity engi in EOTM to play with the PVE people that will come out and try to run to their PVE zerg.

It will be a lot of fun until the runes get nerfed

Tongku.5326:

This runeset is rediculously OP. However, I am going to be roaming on a perplexity engi in EOTM to play with the PVE people that will come out and try to run to their PVE zerg.

It will be a lot of fun until the runes get nerfed

They said they wanted to bring other rune sets up. If they nerfed perplexity again most people would just dump it in favor of some other sets which are equally as potent. It’s not rotfl OP anymore. It’s not even fully functioning properly…

selan.8354:

i hope when they redesign the runes perplexity gets changed, so it buffs existing confusion classes insted of giving interrupting classes such a huge buff. perplexity still makes other non confusion specialized classes stack confusion better and longer than mesmers which is a design flaw as it is more of a core mechanic of a condi mes.

This person understands perplexity runes. ^

Perplexity runes are hands down the best condi rune for mesmer. They should remove the interupt proc. It’s too much.

The duration should not be fixed or the runes will be even worse OP.

The original poster is correct. Runes of perplexity even with the broken duration are hands down the best condi rune set. I would love to see this change so i can feel that I have other options besides perplex.

That being said the runes of perplexity make a condi mesmer work. Without them I don’t think my condi mesmer specs will work anymore and go back to retirement before the perplexity rune patch.

Legion.1569:

lol, i love the people who claim i made up this story. Anyone who has played a class with perplexity im sure have similar stories.

You act like perplexity exists in a vacuum and confusion is the only condi that is put on people. Obviously noone not terrible is going to die from just confusion, but its the fact that on something like my condi warrior i can put up to 12 stacks of confusion in a single hit on someone, in addition to all the other condi’s i can put on, access to so much of a condition shouldnt be possible just from a rune set, and just makes it not fun for both people involved. The more condi’s a condi spec has access to the better it is, and giving every class access to lots of confusion was just wrong.

I believe you buddy. I’ve used perplexity runes since the day after they were introduced.

I just want a confusion rune set that works for mesmers but does’nt over buff other classes.

Remove the interupt proc. That’s the culprit.

These just provide good cover condi’s on a perp thief with the steal. The damage per skill use is ok it’s more about the cover condi then anything.

I am willing to bet the rune of perplexity was apart of them seeing how a different rune worked on live prior to the rework.

If you look at rune of the noble(awesome condi rune) and perplexity they are pretty similar to what was announced in the stream for rune of strength. I think the other condition runes like krait, orrian will be similar to what you see now for perplexity. Many people would take a on proc poison rune over perp if there was a better one.

oZii.2864:

These just provide good cover condi’s on a perp thief with the steal. The damage per skill use is ok it’s more about the cover condi then anything.

I am willing to bet the rune of perplexity was apart of them seeing how a different rune worked on live prior to the rework.

If you look at rune of the noble(awesome condi rune) and perplexity they are pretty similar to what was announced in the stream for rune of strength. I think the other condition runes like krait, orrian will be similar to what you see now for perplexity. Many people would take a on proc poison rune over perp if there was a better one.

Totally agree with you here.

Let’s all hope that every condi build has a viable rune set on part with perplexity. How much longer till that rune patch?

Is the ICD on the interrupt confusion stack per target or a universal cooldown?

There are other rune sets that cause significantly more damage then these runes. Yet it seems like its the “hip” thing to do to jump on the band wagon of a particular complaint. If you are so worried about the damage these runes do.

Proof of this is in all of the false claims about the time the conditions stays up, when the rune is broken and the condition duration does not even apply from the runes. That fact alone suggest the OP is blowing smoke with his complaint, when he doesn’t even know how long he is applying the condition for.

With runes of tormenting I can be on my engineer, pop rocket boots to the middle of the zerg and pop AoE torment, and the rune set has no application cap. I put 2 stacks of torment on 27 players for 220 damage per second if they are not moving, double that if they are, for a 83,160 total damage minimum. yet you guys stay oblivious to that because you think the guy next to me dealing out a few extra stacks of confusion is OP.

Axialbloom.8109:

Is the ICD on the interrupt confusion stack per target or a universal cooldown?

Universal. You can no longer interrupt two players at once and have them both get the stacks from it. You can only have the 6th proc once every 8s on one target (at most).

coglin.1867:

There are other rune sets that cause significantly more damage then these runes. Yet it seems like its the “hip” thing to do to jump on the band wagon of a particular complaint. If you are so worried about the damage these runes do.

Proof of this is in all of the false claims about the time the conditions stays up, when the rune is broken and the condition duration does not even apply from the runes. That fact alone suggest the OP is blowing smoke with his complaint, when he doesn’t even know how long he is applying the condition for.

With runes of tormenting I can be on my engineer, pop rocket boots to the middle of the zerg and pop AoE torment, and the rune set has no application cap. I put 2 stacks of torment on 27 players for 220 damage per second if they are not moving, double that if they are, for a 83,160 total damage minimum. yet you guys stay oblivious to that because you think the guy next to me dealing out a few extra stacks of confusion is OP.

That’s because the individual player being hit by the torment isn’t seeing all that aoe damage tick away. They do see the stacks of confusion on themselves causing them to slap themselves in the face with bigger numbers though.

Aberrant.6749:

Axialbloom.8109:

Is the ICD on the interrupt confusion stack per target or a universal cooldown?

Universal. You can no longer interrupt two players at once and have them both get the stacks from it. You can only have the 6th proc once every 8s on one target (at most).

Cheers. Seems it is more for roaming now, and not the OP zerg rune it used to be.

Axialbloom.8109:

Aberrant.6749:

Axialbloom.8109:

Is the ICD on the interrupt confusion stack per target or a universal cooldown?

Universal. You can no longer interrupt two players at once and have them both get the stacks from it. You can only have the 6th proc once every 8s on one target (at most).

Cheers. Seems it is more for roaming now, and not the OP zerg rune it used to be.

Indeed. Even then… there are equally potent runes for roaming.

I found antitoxin to be just as useful. Most eng builds lack cond removal/reduction they help make up for some of that weakness and provide a little extra kick when facing cond classes by adding in 5 might on pois/torment. Still doesn’t make fighting a necro on eng easy though xD

Who knows what’ll be the next flavor of the month condition rune after they rebalance them in the upcomming patch… especially considering that perplexity isn’t what it used to be.

killahmayne.9518:

if anybody gets beat by a perplexity warrior …. just … uninstall the game. Lol.

They must be winning some fights since I see so many perplexity condi warriors roaming around solo. Typically ends up poorly for them since I’ve been on my condition necro, but they wouldn’t be so popular if they lost to everyone.

Oozo.7856:

killahmayne.9518:

if anybody gets beat by a perplexity warrior …. just … uninstall the game. Lol.

They must be winning some fights since I see so many perplexity condi warriors roaming around solo. Typically ends up poorly for them since I’ve been on my condition necro, but they wouldn’t be so popular if they lost to everyone.

I honestly haven’t seen that many perplexity condi warriors in WvW. Any build can win against any build in WvW because 80% of people either don’t know how to fight outside of a zerg, are running support/team builds or are just bad in general. So of course they can win.

Perplexity condi warrior with mass interrupts are just one of those unorthodox builds that catch people off guard because they don’t expect it. However once you recognize the build it is easily counterable, by not spamming skills first of all. And second of all stability, good kiting (since I see many use mace), blinds and at least OK condition removal. It is such a one-dimensional gimmick build.

coglin.1867:

There are other rune sets that cause significantly more damage then these runes. Yet it seems like its the “hip” thing to do to jump on the band wagon of a particular complaint. If you are so worried about the damage these runes do.

Proof of this is in all of the false claims about the time the conditions stays up, when the rune is broken and the condition duration does not even apply from the runes. That fact alone suggest the OP is blowing smoke with his complaint, when he doesn’t even know how long he is applying the condition for.

With runes of tormenting I can be on my engineer, pop rocket boots to the middle of the zerg and pop AoE torment, and the rune set has no application cap. I put 2 stacks of torment on 27 players for 220 damage per second if they are not moving, double that if they are, for a 83,160 total damage minimum. yet you guys stay oblivious to that because you think the guy next to me dealing out a few extra stacks of confusion is OP.

2 stacks minimum confusion on 27 players? 1 Glamor field with confusion on enter/exit. Total damage dependent on how quickly melee train can spam their autos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ImUsgOGw5dI#t=79

I prefer the fire field proccing 6s burns though. Goes better with the song.

He was talking about 2 stacks of torment from these:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Tormenting

And comparing the damage from it to the single target confusion from perplexity.

Pre-nerf perplexity didn’t have any icd so it was just limited to how many you could interrupt (5 stacks each).

Does the Superior Rune of Torment 6 piece bonus have a cooldown? Or can a Mesmer use 3 Mantras in a row for 6 torment stacks?

Axialbloom.8109:

Does the Superior Rune of Torment 6 piece bonus have a cooldown? Or can a Mesmer use 3 Mantras in a row for 6 torment stacks?

It has a cooldown when the rune first came out it didn’t. Someone made a video of them stacking 25 stacks was nerfed.

Godmoney.2048:

That being said the runes of perplexity make a condi mesmer work. Without them I don’t think my condi mesmer specs will work anymore and go back to retirement before the perplexity rune patch.

I strongly disagree with that. I ran the PU Condi Mesmer spec also known as Blackwater for a few months whilst solo roaming in WvW and never used the Perplexity set, yet could easily take on 3+ people.

Whilst I totally agree with your premise that Confusion is more a Mesmer ability than any other class and that it’s strange that other classes can much more reliable apply multiple stacks these days thanks to the Perplexity rune set, I do disagree that the Condi Mesmer would be unviable without it.

I also don’t think that having it proc on an interrupt is a bad thing… if you look at Mesmer traits and abilities, many of them are centred on interrupts so Confusion would synergise well with that. It’s just that ArenaNet didn’t appreciate that other classes can interrupt much more often than Mesmers.

The runeset does need to be nerfed though… but it shouldn’t be nerfed in such a way that only Condi Mesmers benefits from it

Mind you, the runeset is also already very weak in PvE, partially a result of just how weak Confusion is in PvE.

So the question is, what to change? I think I’d change the 6-point to trigger X stacks of confusion on an attacker if they hit you for more than Y% of your HP in a single hit. There’s an ICD, but it’s per attacker – you can only be affected every 10-20 seconds. So basically, large frontloaded hits give you a nasty stack of confusion, but if you cleanse it you’re free to go for a bit.

This’d work perfectly in PvE, as most PvE mobs hit very hard.

Lets enable perplexity runes in spvp.

Terrahero.9358:

Lets enable perplexity runes in spvp.

Might not be such a bad idea. As sPvP imbalanced seem to have some sort of priority as far as balancing goes, shoving problems into sPvP seems to be the best way to get dev attention.
Only we’d ofc need a dev to enable them in sPvP in the first place.