Guild Wars 2

but again the problem is not thieves its damage scaling on some skills its so high it will hit for nearly if not over 10k each time and some classes having too low base health
while some classes like warrior have the premium package health+armor+massive damage on low cooldown

phaeris.7604:

After having played a glass canon thief the main thing to remember is the c+d/steal combo is 900 range. (playing ele now).

It can be dodged, and all decent players will do that. Soon as you see them approach use a dodge/aegis/etc, to stop the initial burst. Steal won’t be up for another 20 seconds or so.

They have 4 seconds from stealthing to get into position to backstab, and if using c+d have to be near you to restealth off it. It costs 5 initiative so you can’t afford to screw it up twice in a row.

Basically you should work on timings a bit better.

But…if you’re already in a fight and you get added on by a glass thief then you’re dead. But the same works in reverse so what can you do!

only pointing out that mist form’s cooldown is rather insane, so the ele’s counterplay will only work one time and i’ve never seen a theif give up on a squishy target like that unless ive managed to drag it out at least a good 15-20 seconds…. then they tend to come back fully recharged while my stuff is still only about 3/4 off cooldown… in the ele’s case, flaw is the ele class itself, health/defense/damage choices on it are VERY ugly to make, had a lot more luck on other classes dealing with the standard trolled-to-death stealth spamming thieves (ranger longbow skill #2 tracking the fools in stealth ftw before they finally added enough “buffs” to the pets —--nerfs to the class—— to kill the class)

Best luck ive had with gank thieves on an ele is try and get aoe fields all over the place asap… mean they have to suck enough for me to survive more than the 1.5 second delay..including an evade…after they first pop up, but water magic heal/chill followed with some earth magic cripple/immobilize will be your best friends vs gankers…IF they suck enough for you to survive those first couple seconds

So when the OP is trolling people with his condi bunker build that’s ok? His build has a lack of counter’s and can be considered just as lame.

gjop.8612:

So when the OP is trolling people with his condi bunker build that’s ok? His build has a lack of counter’s and can be considered just as lame.

condition is definetly another broken stat specially if you run like me with 2500 condi damage

Why do I see mesmers complaining about evaded backstabs not interrupting stealth? Stand in your clones and the stab will hit them, revealing the thief!

Loco.4561:

Are you kidding me? a GC Ele or GC Mesmer cannot deal the same level of burst as a GC thief.

That’s a thief burst in aoe. Anything else I can help you with?

yski.7642:

Why do I see mesmers complaining about evaded backstabs not interrupting stealth? Stand in your clones and the stab will hit them, revealing the thief!

Are you kidding me? a GC Ele or GC Mesmer cannot deal the same level of burst as a GC thief.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBOc6Lv_BYk

That’s a thief burst in aoe. Anything else I can help you with?

Good job, nice video.
Some people really need to improve their knowledge of the game.

yski.7642:

Why do I see mesmers complaining about evaded backstabs not interrupting stealth? Stand in your clones and the stab will hit them, revealing the thief!

Are you kidding me? a GC Ele or GC Mesmer cannot deal the same level of burst as a GC thief.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBOc6Lv_BYk

That’s a thief burst in aoe. Anything else I can help you with?

If this ele misses his initial burst, what’s next? The whole video showed the pros of a GC elementalist hitting his initiations perfectly. But what if he misses? Only cantrip he has is Lightning Flash. How else is he supposed to survive without access to stealth or clones?

I’m not taking away anything from that guy in the video. I believe we can all agree that he’s good because he can pull that off. But you’re only stating the PROS and leaving out the CONS.

Kyon.9735:

yski.7642:

Why do I see mesmers complaining about evaded backstabs not interrupting stealth? Stand in your clones and the stab will hit them, revealing the thief!

Are you kidding me? a GC Ele or GC Mesmer cannot deal the same level of burst as a GC thief.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBOc6Lv_BYk

That’s a thief burst in aoe. Anything else I can help you with?

If this ele misses his initial burst, what’s next? The whole video showed the pros of a GC elementalist hitting his initiations perfectly. But what if he misses? Only cantrip he has is Lightning Flash. How else is he supposed to survive without access to stealth or clones?

I’m not taking away anything from that guy in the video. I believe we can all agree that he’s good because he can pull that off. But you’re only stating the PROS and leaving out the CONS.

He has Fiery Greatsword, which is the best escape in the game. And Ride the Lighting.
Are we talking about 1v1s or about instagibbing people that are unaware? Because if it is the former, then complaining because you lost a 1v1 against a full glass thief is the best example of a l2p issue.

hihey.1075:

Kyon.9735:

yski.7642:

Why do I see mesmers complaining about evaded backstabs not interrupting stealth? Stand in your clones and the stab will hit them, revealing the thief!

Are you kidding me? a GC Ele or GC Mesmer cannot deal the same level of burst as a GC thief.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBOc6Lv_BYk

That’s a thief burst in aoe. Anything else I can help you with?

If this ele misses his initial burst, what’s next? The whole video showed the pros of a GC elementalist hitting his initiations perfectly. But what if he misses? Only cantrip he has is Lightning Flash. How else is he supposed to survive without access to stealth or clones?

I’m not taking away anything from that guy in the video. I believe we can all agree that he’s good because he can pull that off. But you’re only stating the PROS and leaving out the CONS.

He has Fiery Greatsword, which is the best escape in the game. And Ride the Lighting.
Are we talking about 1v1s or about instagibbing people that are unaware? Because if it is the former, then complaining because you lost a 1v1 against a full glass thief is the best example of a l2p issue.

I don’t know about FGS as the “best escape tool” in the game. His video showed him playing 1v1, 1vX, XvX but all of it only showed him doing a successful burst.

And just to be clear, you can read my earlier posts and I’m on the side that thieves don’t need damage nerf, it’s fine as it is. Sorry it’s my bad, I just realized the reason you posted it to show that eles can do the same damage a thief does. My argument doesn’t belong in this thread, it’s more of a class balancing issue.

I’ve been hit for 10k backstabs, and 11k Eviscerates with 2000 Toughness…

Its really not that rare… and its why I run Bunker Build, cause if i’m getting hit for that much with 2000 toughness, imagine if I had less

Kyon.9735:

Sorry it’s my bad, I just realized the reason you posted it to show that eles can do the same damage a thief does.

Yup, it’s there to show that a) elementalists are just as capable of bursting as thieves are and b) since everyone and their mothers can do burst like that, the damage can’t be the real reason people are complaining about thieves.

Now I’m ready to admit that stealth regen build damage is a bit high for the amount of survivability they have, but pointing at an all out glass cannon and saying thieves deal too much damage is just silly.

I mean, I’m one shotting people on my warrior, and that’s on 10 second cooldown, 1500 range and it pierces :P

As for surviving as an elementalist glass cannon, it’s doable, though it does take a while to get used to. Mine is still sub 80 so all I can do is sPvP, but I’m not dying noticeably more than I’m on my 3 or 4 signet thief.

Terravos.4059:

I’ve been hit for 10k backstabs, and 11k Eviscerates with 2000 Toughness…

Its really not that rare… and its why I run Bunker Build, cause if i’m getting hit for that much with 2000 toughness, imagine if I had less

You might want to check your armor set. I run 2K toughness as a thief and a backstab only hits me for 4K.

gjop.8612:

So when the OP is trolling people with his condi bunker build that’s ok? His build has a lack of counter’s and can be considered just as lame.

A condition Elementalist takes more skill than a thief. Elementalist only has 2 damaging conditions, burning and bleed. Now to get others we have to use runes and/or sigils to get more. It takes more skill to live and survive on a condition or glass elementalist than it does on a thief with glass or conditions.

yski.7642:

Kyon.9735:

Sorry it’s my bad, I just realized the reason you posted it to show that eles can do the same damage a thief does.

Yup, it’s there to show that a) elementalists are just as capable of bursting as thieves are and b) since everyone and their mothers can do burst like that, the damage can’t be the real reason people are complaining about thieves.

Now I’m ready to admit that stealth regen build damage is a bit high for the amount of survivability they have, but pointing at an all out glass cannon and saying thieves deal too much damage is just silly.

I mean, I’m one shotting people on my warrior, and that’s on 10 second cooldown, 1500 range and it pierces :P

As for surviving as an elementalist glass cannon, it’s doable, though it does take a while to get used to. Mine is still sub 80 so all I can do is sPvP, but I’m not dying noticeably more than I’m on my 3 or 4 signet thief.

The ele burst is also on a longer cooldown than 4 seconds. Period. And the only reason thieves burst is on a cooldown is because of 4 second revealed. If you want to change it so a thief is revealed when he is blocked/evaded then I wouldn’t mind the damage. However, when you can stay invisible spamming an attack until blocks are gone or endurance is empty, that is bull kitten. If someone attacks you from stealth and you block or evade, then you know they are there, they should be revealed. Either add a cooldown to spammable attacks with high damage or reveal them if they fail.

ilMasa.2546:

Lets stop with this BS “If they hit hard, they get hit hard as well” ok?!

This is a normal thief scenario:

stealth (damage increased) => 3k to 6k dmg=> stealth (heal and/or condition remove) =>3k dmg => stealth

Most of times u cant even target a thief before getting dropped to 1/4 hp.

Lets be clear i dont mind if thieves can unleash tons of dmg (even on a full bunker warrior,thing that makes me laugh hard) to compensate their squishyness…but the STEALTH mechanics in this game are just BS,and this is a fact.

What you outlined here is what most players and perhaps even developers seem to ignore. Stealth negates the entire idea of being squishy. A zerker thief is squishy IF they aren’t using stealth. But every class that uses zerker is rather squishy. So this isn’t entirely unique to the thief class.

The example scenario is spot on. You can’t even down a thief before they simply stealth again and return with replenished health. Unless you can dish out 10k+ within 4 seconds and land all of the attacks, then its impossible.

This also highlights another issue, there is no counter play for stealth outside of the ranger skill sic em. So every time they stealth the player is punished for not being able to counter it. However the thief is not punished for failed attacks in stealth, they just keep attacking until something hits.

To be honest I’m not sure what Anet’s perspective is. Four seconds for the reveal buff is such a tiny interval to deliver damage that it doesn’t even matter. The only time it can make a difference is if the thief is fighting against multiple enemies. But in a 1v1 encounter they always have a advantage.

deepwinter.9015:

I would +1 your post, Hostility, except you’re clearly still playing “those other MMOs,” where passive mitigation is a thing and you can AFK while facetanking.

Meanwhile, in GW2, the name of the game is active mitigation – as you mentioned already with blocks and evades. In WvW, going full bunker isn’t going to save a player. What will save a player is a good ratio of Effective Power/Health and active mitigation through mechanics and abilities.

Very well, so how do you actively mitigate attacks you do not see coming? Which do not punish the thief if you out play them? Let me show you in a brief summary:

1. You can only guess where the thief is and when and if they will backstab, so you can prematurely use defensive cooldowns such as blind, aegis, block and dodge.

2. Here is the kicker, even if you make the right guess and out play the thief by using one of the defensive cooldowns I named and they miss their attacks. They will still continue to spam attacks to they eventually land one.

There is no punishment for thieves when they fail attacks in stealth. But their is punishment for players who prematurely use defensive cds when they guess wrong. This highlights another problem, fighting against a invisible character is a guessing game but for them its even easier to fight their target since they can observe the target without fear of the target reading what they may do.

That entire scenario completely nullifies the idea of active mitigation because one party can’t observe to make the active plays. It becomes more like guessing plays.

TY for posting that video. It only reinforces what I said on the first page. Damage needs to be reduced dramatically! Instead, oh wait… I got it, let’s give Burning Speed an evade for the lulz!!

GG…. #facepalm

From a PvP perspective it’s hard to justify fights lasting longer unless you also nerf respawn times.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Terravos.4059:

I’ve been hit for 10k backstabs, and 11k Eviscerates with 2000 Toughness…

Its really not that rare… and its why I run Bunker Build, cause if i’m getting hit for that much with 2000 toughness, imagine if I had less

You might want to check your armor set. I run 2K toughness as a thief and a backstab only hits me for 4K.

I don’t need to check my armor, I know what it is and I know what i’ve been hit for.

I also know what my Thief hits for, and I could pop you with 4k backstab with PVT armor even with 2k toughness

Otaur.9268:

The ele burst is also on a longer cooldown than 4 seconds. Period. And the only reason thieves burst is on a cooldown is because of 4 second revealed. If you want to change it so a thief is revealed when he is blocked/evaded then I wouldn’t mind the damage. However, when you can stay invisible spamming an attack until blocks are gone or endurance is empty, that is bull kitten. If someone attacks you from stealth and you block or evade, then you know they are there, they should be revealed. Either add a cooldown to spammable attacks with high damage or reveal them if they fail.

You didn’t read my posts, did you? :/

The kind of burst you see in my videos is on a 45 second cooldown. That’s higher than the ele burst shown in the video I linked. In order to do my instant kill burst I pop literally everything for those 20 might stacks, stun and +15% damage.

What you are talking about is a sustain build, which has been my point all along: the damage isn’t the issue. No-one cares about the damage burst builds can do, they hate the high damage high survivability stealth builds. In which case pointing fingers at the amount of damage backstabs can do is just stupid and has little to do with the real issue.

Rather than posting screenshots of 20k backstabs, you should be complaining about the amount of survivability thieves get while still doing good damage.

As for blocking interrupting stealth, it’s probably just fair so I’m fine with that.

Ok…. at 2600 armor, I was just hit for 5.7k & 6.5k cluster bomb while defending a keep from the wall. Those numbers are ridiculous, absurd, and so have to get nerfed. The 10% crit reduction coming isn’t enough.

~6k isn’t even that high from a glass cannon though. My warrior is consistently critting 10ks on guardians, for instance.

From my perspective there are 2 facets to this problem:
1- The ele skills are too long to cast, and it is near impossible to fight a thief because in the time it takes to cast our strongest skill (that do less damage than a backstab) the thief will have done 20k dmg.

The ele class needs buff to survive in 1 vs 1, but the trait lines are half broken, so there is little hope there.

2- Berserker thief are slightly overpowered, not because of the damage they do, but because of the speed at which they do it. Their stealth mechanic is ok in my opinion (I levelled a thief to 80 just to understand why they were always killing me).

Also just one backstab is fine as it is, the problem is dealing with a backstab every 5 seconds. The thief backstab should require more initiative if it succeeded the previous time.

Xillllix.3485:

From my perspective there are 2 facets to this problem:
1- The ele skills are too long to cast, and it is near impossible to fight a thief because in the time it takes to cast our strongest skill (that do less damage than a backstab) the thief will have done 20k dmg.

The ele class needs buff to survive in 1 vs 1, but the trait lines are half broken, so there is little hope there.

2- Berserker thief are slightly overpowered, not because of the damage they do, but because of the speed at which they do it. Their stealth mechanic is ok in my opinion (I levelled a thief to 80 just to understand why they were always killing me).

Also just one backstab is fine as it is, the problem is dealing with a backstab every 5 seconds. The thief backstab should require more initiative if it succeeded the previous time.

Wait, didn’t I just link a video of an elementalist bursting down people at the same rate as thieves do?

Burning speed + arcane blast + arcane wave takes 3/4 seconds, while CnD + backstab takes 1/2 + 1/4 seconds (not including aftercast delays), in other words the exact same time it takes elementalists to pull off their combo. So, how is it thief burst that’s too fast?

As for dealing with backstabs every 5 seconds, that’s sustained damage more than anything else, which I do agree is probably a little too strong, keeping in mind the amount of survivability that comes with it. But if it’s fast burst you’re worried about, the fight should be over by that 5 second mark anyway

EDIT: Elementalist burst is about landing several simultaneous smaller hits more than anything else, but have you ever tried Churning earth?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFLZeMQFaAQ
The part you might find interesting is at 1:35

So all I’m getting from this thread is exactly what has been said since launch, berserk builds scale to stupid amounts of damage are the exact reason why WvW is now about bunkering. Even with a 10% crit damage nerf this won’t change much.

Yes. Berserker builds are too strong, so everyone is playing tanky ones. Oh wait..

Whatever Arenanet’s “vision” for the Thief was, it desperately needs re-envisioning.

THis is unfun.

DeWolfe.2174:

Ok…. at 2600 armor, I was just hit for 5.7k & 6.5k cluster bomb while defending a keep from the wall. Those numbers are ridiculous, absurd, and so have to get nerfed. The 10% crit reduction coming isn’t enough.

i got 2.8k armor and got hit for 5.7k metorshowers and i do get hit by 11k eviscerate and 6k-7k backstabs. i really maxed out my armor on my mes. i cant go full bunker as i wont deal any dmg at all if i do so. so the crit nerf might gonna be a good start.

Svarty.8019:

Whatever Arenanet’s “vision” for the Thief was, it desperately needs re-envisioning.

THis is unfun.

As a thief main, fighting thieves on my alts is probably the most fun I have. Most recently I fought a (most likely) 0/30/30/10/0 D/D thief on my glass mesmer (20/20/0/0/30 shatter). Dodged the CnD twice, messed up and knocked him off a hill where I couldn’t hit him (…), turned it around and blew him up with a well timed shatter. I’m not great on my mesmer, but if you know how to play thieves you know how to beat them. I don’t beat them all, but I have a lot of fun trying.

DeWolfe.2174:

Ok…. at 2600 armor, I was just hit for 5.7k & 6.5k cluster bomb while defending a keep from the wall. Those numbers are ridiculous, absurd, and so have to get nerfed. The 10% crit reduction coming isn’t enough.

2600 armor is mid range at best. I suggest you either spec more, or reduce it and put in more offense so you become more of a threat and can push people off while using active mitigation.

Kyon.9735:

I’m not taking away anything from that guy in the video. I believe we can all agree that he’s good because he can pull that off. But you’re only stating the PROS and leaving out the CONS.

Lol. Ohhh the irony. My sides. They hurt.

Btw Yski, I know that vid wasn’t your vid, but I just want to say that you do a great job on your videos. You do a wonderful editing job. Keep it up!

Otaur.9268:

gjop.8612:

So when the OP is trolling people with his condi bunker build that’s ok? His build has a lack of counter’s and can be considered just as lame.

A condition Elementalist takes more skill than a thief. Elementalist only has 2 damaging conditions, burning and bleed. Now to get others we have to use runes and/or sigils to get more. It takes more skill to live and survive on a condition or glass elementalist than it does on a thief with glass or conditions.

Maybe so, but the screenshot the OP posted seems like a healing power condi build unless you run into him running a healing bunker condi build yourself there is basically no counter to it. (Unless other people get involed or you run away) This can be just as lame and the margin for error is huge for these build’s as you just facetank most damage (even a full glass thief couldn’t burst down the op) while spamming conditions faster then they can get removed.

On a side note I really need to run into EB naked or with low armor equipped and get backstabbed by a thief or hit by a glass build profession, waypoint to keep and equip my tankiest armor set and scroll up the combat log. Post it on here and scream OP :P

yski.7642:

Xillllix.3485:

From my perspective there are 2 facets to this problem:
1- The ele skills are too long to cast, and it is near impossible to fight a thief because in the time it takes to cast our strongest skill (that do less damage than a backstab) the thief will have done 20k dmg.

The ele class needs buff to survive in 1 vs 1, but the trait lines are half broken, so there is little hope there.

2- Berserker thief are slightly overpowered, not because of the damage they do, but because of the speed at which they do it. Their stealth mechanic is ok in my opinion (I levelled a thief to 80 just to understand why they were always killing me).

Also just one backstab is fine as it is, the problem is dealing with a backstab every 5 seconds. The thief backstab should require more initiative if it succeeded the previous time.

Wait, didn’t I just link a video of an elementalist bursting down people at the same rate as thieves do?

Burning speed + arcane blast + arcane wave takes 3/4 seconds, while CnD + backstab takes 1/2 + 1/4 seconds (not including aftercast delays), in other words the exact same time it takes elementalists to pull off their combo. So, how is it thief burst that’s too fast?

As for dealing with backstabs every 5 seconds, that’s sustained damage more than anything else, which I do agree is probably a little too strong, keeping in mind the amount of survivability that comes with it. But if it’s fast burst you’re worried about, the fight should be over by that 5 second mark anyway

EDIT: Elementalist burst is about landing several simultaneous smaller hits more than anything else, but have you ever tried Churning earth?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFLZeMQFaAQ
The part you might find interesting is at 1:35

This videos date from before all the elementalists nerfs. And they are selected clips against upscales from a build that has 12k hp. It’s no reference.

Roll a staff ele, become a pro with it and do some 1 vs 1 vs some pro thief. You’ll have a less than 1% chance of winning and a 33% chance of getting away.

Anet completely messed up the balance of the staff ele in 1 vs 1 because all the spells are freaking slow to cast. BTW we cant switch to daggers when we see a thief, we have no weapon swap.

style.6173:

@OP:

lol. you clearly have never faced a GC ele or GC mesmer or pretty much GC anything. Any class has the potential to burst down another quickly if they spec that way. Of course the downside is that they die really fast too.

I play an elementalist myself and the dps output by thieves is ridicoulous. It´s like they completely ignore the amout of armor you have.

However, the REAL PROBLEM IS STEALTH. It´s just an OP mechanic( I dont want to get deeper into it, there are already tons of posts about stealth beeing OP). I can´t do much to my enemy when he/she is constantly going into stealthmode. Dont get me wrong, I kill a lot of thieves with my ele AND I die a lot due to thieves, but I still think thieves are unfair(they can simply spam a kittenload of DPS because they dont have cooldowns).

Following story happens sooo often: Thief is down to about 30% health, I´m about 70% and I´m ready to kill him(when visible again)…BAM…Thief just one(!!!) shotted you with backstab and/or heatseeker spam.

Xillllix.3485:

This videos date from before all the elementalists nerfs. And they are selected clips against upscales from a build that has 12k hp. It’s no reference.

Roll a staff ele, become a pro with it and do some 1 vs 1 vs some pro thief. You’ll have a less than 1% chance of winning and a 33% chance of getting away.

Anet completely messed up the balance of the staff ele in 1 vs 1 because all the spells are freaking slow to cast. BTW we cant switch to daggers when we see a thief, we have no weapon swap.

Really? I had no idea that’s been nerfed, could you point me in the direction of some of those patch notes?

It can’t be completely gone as I’ve been doing something similar in sPvP without too much of a problem, but I’d love to see the details.

As a side note, look at some of those backstab complaints and tell me those aren’t selected clips. We’re talking about burst potential more than anything else here – it doens’t matter how many failed attempts there are, it’s the one successful one people complain about in the forums. And yes, to get that kind of numbers thieves run with 12k health as well. Should we iqnore them too?

As for staff, from what I’ve understood that’s not really the optimal 1v1 weapon to begin with. My rifle warrior isn’t much good in 1v1s either, but if I have someone face tank them while I charge my killshots it’s a whole new story, and I imagine it’s the same for staff eles.

it’s pretty fun to spam 5k+ hits over and over again on my thief! don’t take away my fun

Sanduskel.1850:

it’s pretty fun to spam 5k+ hits over and over again on my thief! don’t take away my fun

where did you crawl out?

Otaur.9268:

Ok, I am one for going glass cannon as an Elementalist I ran it for the longest time. My heaviest hitting attacks did 3-6k (D/D) damage versus squishy targets…

I call this a troll nerf thief thread and the original poster is obviously lying

First of all, too many players are doing things wrongly. When is the last time you saw a thief in a full 50 men zerg fight surviving with their “CnD + Backstab” combo? Give me a youtube video of that thief surviving and backstabbing.

Next, get an ally, or allies and focus on that thief. Stun/daze/immobolize is your friend. Do not waste time trying to hit peanut damage on thieves. You either instant gib him or focus fire on him. If you want a balance fight go sPvP and stop complaining in WvW where you can stack all sort of funny buffs.

The attack coefficient of backstab is 2.4 (which is about 1/2 of the full hundred blades damage, just imagine doing 20k damage on some pve boss on hundred blades). You don’t get that kind of numbers in sPvP, and therefore you can react accordingly. Due to how things are handled, it’s much, much easier to stack attack power in PvE or WvW. Since attack coefficient multiplies to the power, this end up making high attack coefficient skills to be exceptional burst damage.

Does this mean that thieves are too strong? Yes and no. The problem is anet not balancing stats properly. Anet is treating certain stats like healing to be the equivalent of critical damage or power (which is absolutely not true, and I have never seen **** balancing, gosh just reassign another dev team who’s good at maths to handle the overall balance already.)

But thieves can still be beaten. Easily. Ultimately the same approach stands, just direct DPS the thief down (condition players will have trouble fighting stealth thieves). They are significantly weaker than warriors (I have even seen a ridiculous warrior who transform into a deer in wvw to run away from 20 people chasing him, while managing to down a player on his own).

After reading this thread I think its safe to say that most of you have no idea how to fight a thief and have no idea how difficult it can be to play one. Thief is my main, but I have absolutely ZERO issues fighting other thieves on any of my other classes. And when I say other classes I mean, ALL of them. I have an 80 of everything in the game. Fighting thieves is not hard, regardless of my main.

LoneWolfie.1852:

But thieves can still be beaten. Easily. Ultimately the same approach stands, just direct DPS the thief down (condition players will have trouble fighting stealth thieves). They are significantly weaker than warriors (I have even seen a ridiculous warrior who transform into a deer in wvw to run away from 20 people chasing him, while managing to down a player on his own).

Nope, there are some thieves on Piken or Kodash(PvP Guild from the tournament, I think it was “Ten Seconds To Rage Quit”) and they just killed everyone and everything in 1 vs 1 fights on the obsidian sanctum. Warriors couldn´t even touch them.

Fasyx.9347:

LoneWolfie.1852:

But thieves can still be beaten. Easily. Ultimately the same approach stands, just direct DPS the thief down (condition players will have trouble fighting stealth thieves). They are significantly weaker than warriors (I have even seen a ridiculous warrior who transform into a deer in wvw to run away from 20 people chasing him, while managing to down a player on his own).

Nope, there are some thieves on Piken or Kodash(PvP Guild from the tournament, I think it was “Ten Seconds To Rage Quit”) and they just killed everyone and everything in 1 vs 1 fights on the obsidian sanctum. Warriors couldn´t even touch them.

You are seeking balance in WvW? Are thieves invincible in zerg fights? No? Moving on.

Mordecai.6318:

After reading this thread I think its safe to say that most of you have no idea how to fight a thief and have no idea how difficult it can be to play one. Thief is my main, but I have absolutely ZERO issues fighting other thieves on any of my other classes. And when I say other classes I mean, ALL of them. I have an 80 of everything in the game. Fighting thieves is not hard, regardless of my main.

I’ve played all the classes, and my thieves are hands down the easiest ones I’ve played. So I disagree with you.

D/D thief here!

RE: OP
I’m not quite sure why your having trouble with D/D thieves. Personally i find that D/D eles are one of the hardest matchups for me. They have a hugeeee amount of point-blank AOEs spamming constantly, lots of CCs/knockdowns/freezing that are fast and very dangerous for a D/D thief, and can heal up like there’s no tomorrow. Almost all fights i have with decent D/D ele players drags on with them having the upper hand in sustainability.

Use your water 3 and thats one backstab that will never land, earth 4 and thats another… use earth 2 and the d/d thief will only be able to look at you with tears in their eyes… air 3 aura will do the job, water 4 aura will also, even fire 3 as a quick gap opener will prevent a backstab from landing. lets not forget about mistform, RTL, and lightening flash… or even armor of earth in a pitch, especially if they use basi venom on you. IF, even with the absurd amounts of counterskills you have for thieves they still manage to backstab you… heal up with your also abundant amount of healing skills x.x as for dodging… if you traited for it, dodging in air will blind the thief as well.

If you suddenly feel like you want to stop abusing this poor thief, take out your FGS and spin your way to freedom, joining your zerg to play in fun fights while the thief looks wistfully from a distance wishing they could join in too! (I play a d/d ele too)

On a side note… from a thief’s perspective! why are backline (ele and necros in particular) so hard to take down in a group environment for thieves? They have so many skills that will buy them the 10 seconds or so they need to get back into the ‘aoe no-fly-zone’ for thieves if they positioned themselves badly. Or even CREATE an aoe no-fly-zone on the spot… granted, sometimes players will use those 10 seconds to run the OTHER way while shouting FREEEDOOOOMMM and die splendidly. Just odd seeing how thieves look like they are designed to do just that (D/D in particular), punish backline squishies for being out of position.

-Emi

RyuDragnier.9476:

Terravos.4059:

I’ve been hit for 10k backstabs, and 11k Eviscerates with 2000 Toughness…

Its really not that rare… and its why I run Bunker Build, cause if i’m getting hit for that much with 2000 toughness, imagine if I had less

You might want to check your armor set. I run 2K toughness as a thief and a backstab only hits me for 4K.

I have 2,105 toughness/3440 armor and backstab hits me for 4,639 damage. I have 400 more armor than the OP, backstab’s damage was lowered by roughly 1.2k damage. That isn’t a big reduction considering: its a nearly instant attack, that you can’t counter play and that you can’t see coming.

Aza.2105:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Terravos.4059:

I’ve been hit for 10k backstabs, and 11k Eviscerates with 2000 Toughness…

Its really not that rare… and its why I run Bunker Build, cause if i’m getting hit for that much with 2000 toughness, imagine if I had less

You might want to check your armor set. I run 2K toughness as a thief and a backstab only hits me for 4K.

I have 2,105 toughness/3440 armor and backstab hits me for 4,639 damage. I have 400 more armor than the OP, backstab’s damage was lowered by roughly 1.2k damage. That isn’t a big reduction considering: its a instant attack, that you can’t counter play and that you can’t see coming.

Backstab isn’t instant… you can pre-cast then use a teleport though (several other classes can do this as well).

Aberrant.6749:

Aza.2105:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Terravos.4059:

I’ve been hit for 10k backstabs, and 11k Eviscerates with 2000 Toughness…

Its really not that rare… and its why I run Bunker Build, cause if i’m getting hit for that much with 2000 toughness, imagine if I had less

You might want to check your armor set. I run 2K toughness as a thief and a backstab only hits me for 4K.

I have 2,105 toughness/3440 armor and backstab hits me for 4,639 damage. I have 400 more armor than the OP, backstab’s damage was lowered by roughly 1.2k damage. That isn’t a big reduction considering: its a instant attack, that you can’t counter play and that you can’t see coming.

Backstab isn’t instant… you can pre-cast then use a teleport though (several other classes can do this as well).

I’ll edit my post to reflect that. Regardless, it doesn’t change what I wrote.

Aza.2105:

[…]that you can’t see coming.

If you can’t see it coming, then you ether got outplayed because you wern’t paying attention, or you don’t have enough experience to recognize the tells the setup offers you.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Aza.2105:

[…]that you can’t see coming.

If you can’t see it coming, then you ether got outplayed because you wern’t paying attention, or you don’t have enough experience to recognize the tells the setup offers you.

The character is invisible, of course you can’t see it.

Aza.2105:

The character is invisible, of course you can’t see it.

And it’s when they ARE visible when you can read the obvious tells.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Aza.2105:

The character is invisible, of course you can’t see it.

And it’s when they ARE visible when you can read the obvious tells.

You are trying to describe guessing. To read something you have to be able to observe it. Once they go stealth then you are moved out of the realm of being able to observe to the realm of guessing what they will do.

Unless you are fighting artificial intelligence, then its unlikely you will be able to apply the same guess over and over again with success.