Guild Wars 2

spoj.9672:

Its also possible that engi will do way less because a significant portion is condi damage. :>

Zerk power engi havent much hybrid damage in roration (if you dont count vulnerability). There is few bleeds from minor buts its like 5% dps tops

Rozbuska.5263:

Chokolata.1870:

Actually, warriors are TOP CLEAVE DPS if you ignore the incredibly imbalanced Elementalist summons.

They arent. Bomb engi is. And with larger range

wouldnt staff ellie be top cleave/aoe?

Prysin.8542:

Rozbuska.5263:

Chokolata.1870:

Actually, warriors are TOP CLEAVE DPS if you ignore the incredibly imbalanced Elementalist summons.

They arent. Bomb engi is. And with larger range

wouldnt staff ellie be top cleave/aoe?

ele sure I react on that warriors top cleave. Eles are pretty much exploit now so I dont count them:-P

Tree.3916:

spoj.9672:

Its also possible that engi will do way less because a significant portion is condi damage. :>

And it’s also possible that you underestimate the opening burst of Rifle 3+5+acid bomb+grenade barrage.

Engineer dps starts off with a rather huge burst, lowers when you swap to grenade kit, ramps back up and by the time you use the shrapenal grenade a second time you are at your sustained dps rate and almost ready to do your burst skills again.

I kinda want to do trend line graph where the x axis is time and the y axis is average dps at that time. Plot points for 5-10-20-30 seconds and watch how the DPS flows as a fight goes on. But this is a time consuming project that isn’t worth doing until/if FGS gets nerfed.

The same can be said for most classes.

spoj.9672:

Tree.3916:

spoj.9672:

Its also possible that engi will do way less because a significant portion is condi damage. :>

And it’s also possible that you underestimate the opening burst of Rifle 3+5+acid bomb+grenade barrage.

Engineer dps starts off with a rather huge burst, lowers when you swap to grenade kit, ramps back up and by the time you use the shrapenal grenade a second time you are at your sustained dps rate and almost ready to do your burst skills again.

I kinda want to do trend line graph where the x axis is time and the y axis is average dps at that time. Plot points for 5-10-20-30 seconds and watch how the DPS flows as a fight goes on. But this is a time consuming project that isn’t worth doing until/if FGS gets nerfed.

The same can be said for most classes.

Engi just happens to be really high up there in burst cause they have like ten different long-cooldown burst damage skills.

So does necro. Dont get me wrong, ld like to see engi used in speedruns and become much more viable. But even with fgs nerf (dont even think its coming) i doubt engi will have a place even with its fairly decent initial burst. Just being a decent class for casual runs is good enough for me. I PHIW after all.

maha.7902:

http://gw2dps.david-reess.de/

Stick in a composition with a ranger, EA warrior, guardian and then like phalanx warrior and engi to handle might/vuln. Then swap the EA warrior for a 30/25 warrior and the guardian for like a thief or something. Then take a look at the numbers for those two classes compared to ranger.

Interestingly, while the ranger’s personal dps isn’t anything special, when you look at the total party dps it looks like rangers bring enough to make them competitive with thieves and eles. …and easily surpass warriors by 2~3k (that is, warriors other than the 1 PS for 25might)

of the available builds there, mesmer, necro and gaurd appear to bring poor damage.

war, engy and ranger table boosting overall party dps as their claim to fame – and thus, if you’re trying to optimize, you don’t want more than one of each.
(their value appears to be, in order: PS war, vuln engy, spirit/spot ranger)
(other note: a 2nd ranger is noticably worse than a 2nd engy or war)

thief and ele for high personal dps.

while gaurdians bring so much defensive utility that having relatively weak damage doesn’t matter that much, for mesmer and necro, this is very much grounds to exclude them from a party… in the same way you might exclude someone for wearing soldier’s instead of beserkers.

at least, that’s what i observe.

Mitzruti.5719:

maha.7902:

http://gw2dps.david-reess.de/

Stick in a composition with a ranger, EA warrior, guardian and then like phalanx warrior and engi to handle might/vuln. Then swap the EA warrior for a 30/25 warrior and the guardian for like a thief or something. Then take a look at the numbers for those two classes compared to ranger.

Interestingly, while the ranger’s personal dps isn’t anything special, when you look at the total party dps it looks like rangers bring enough to make them competitive with thieves and eles. …and easily surpass warriors by 2~3k (that is, warriors other than the 1 PS for 25might)

of the available builds there, mesmer, necro and gaurd appear to bring poor damage.

war, engy and ranger table boosting overall party dps as their claim to fame – and thus, if you’re trying to optimize, you don’t want more than one of each.
(their value appears to be, in order: PS war, vuln engy, spirit/spot ranger)
(other note: a 2nd ranger is noticably worse than a 2nd engy or war)

thief and ele for high personal dps.

while gaurdians bring so much defensive utility that having relatively weak damage doesn’t matter that much, for mesmer and necro, this is very much grounds to exclude them from a party… in the same way you might exclude someone for wearing soldier’s instead of beserkers.

at least, that’s what i observe.

I’m not sure how that paricular tool calculates DPS. It sounds like it’s doing weird things with might and fury if it’s putting PS warrior at top party support contribution. It’s not a super easy thing to calculate the total amount of buffs since might stacking is cumulative (i.e. thief + any other profession’s fire field > those two separately) and vuln can either be measured in bursts (FGS, stuff like OMM) or sustained over time.

I also know the mesmer estimates tend to be lowball since they don’t include phantasm DPS so that may make them look worse than they actually are. I also don’t think that particular calculator accounts for use of Time Warp.

All that having been said, if and when FGS ever gets nerfed, being able to sustain long-duration might/vuln/fury/etc. over time (and not just for 30 seconds or whatever the time window used in that caclulator is) is going to be more important than just asking how you’re going to get the boss tot he wall to be Fiery Rushed.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Mitzruti.5719:

maha.7902:

http://gw2dps.david-reess.de/

Stick in a composition with a ranger, EA warrior, guardian and then like phalanx warrior and engi to handle might/vuln. Then swap the EA warrior for a 30/25 warrior and the guardian for like a thief or something. Then take a look at the numbers for those two classes compared to ranger.

Interestingly, while the ranger’s personal dps isn’t anything special, when you look at the total party dps it looks like rangers bring enough to make them competitive with thieves and eles. …and easily surpass warriors by 2~3k (that is, warriors other than the 1 PS for 25might)

of the available builds there, mesmer, necro and gaurd appear to bring poor damage.

war, engy and ranger table boosting overall party dps as their claim to fame – and thus, if you’re trying to optimize, you don’t want more than one of each.
(their value appears to be, in order: PS war, vuln engy, spirit/spot ranger)
(other note: a 2nd ranger is noticably worse than a 2nd engy or war)

thief and ele for high personal dps.

while gaurdians bring so much defensive utility that having relatively weak damage doesn’t matter that much, for mesmer and necro, this is very much grounds to exclude them from a party… in the same way you might exclude someone for wearing soldier’s instead of beserkers.

at least, that’s what i observe.

I’m not sure how that paricular tool calculates DPS. It sounds like it’s doing weird things with might and fury if it’s putting PS warrior at top party support contribution. It’s not a super easy thing to calculate the total amount of buffs since might stacking is cumulative (i.e. thief + any other profession’s fire field > those two separately) and vuln can either be measured in bursts (FGS, stuff like OMM) or sustained over time.

I also know the mesmer estimates tend to be lowball since they don’t include phantasm DPS so that may make them look worse than they actually are. I also don’t think that particular calculator accounts for use of Time Warp.

All that having been said, if and when FGS ever gets nerfed, being able to sustain long-duration might/vuln/fury/etc. over time (and not just for 30 seconds or whatever the time window used in that caclulator is) is going to be more important than just asking how you’re going to get the boss tot he wall to be Fiery Rushed.

That calc also doesn’t seem to take into account pet vulnerability

Prysin.8542:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Mitzruti.5719:

maha.7902:

http://gw2dps.david-reess.de/

Stick in a composition with a ranger, EA warrior, guardian and then like phalanx warrior and engi to handle might/vuln. Then swap the EA warrior for a 30/25 warrior and the guardian for like a thief or something. Then take a look at the numbers for those two classes compared to ranger.

Interestingly, while the ranger’s personal dps isn’t anything special, when you look at the total party dps it looks like rangers bring enough to make them competitive with thieves and eles. …and easily surpass warriors by 2~3k (that is, warriors other than the 1 PS for 25might)

of the available builds there, mesmer, necro and gaurd appear to bring poor damage.

war, engy and ranger table boosting overall party dps as their claim to fame – and thus, if you’re trying to optimize, you don’t want more than one of each.
(their value appears to be, in order: PS war, vuln engy, spirit/spot ranger)
(other note: a 2nd ranger is noticably worse than a 2nd engy or war)

thief and ele for high personal dps.

while gaurdians bring so much defensive utility that having relatively weak damage doesn’t matter that much, for mesmer and necro, this is very much grounds to exclude them from a party… in the same way you might exclude someone for wearing soldier’s instead of beserkers.

at least, that’s what i observe.

I’m not sure how that paricular tool calculates DPS. It sounds like it’s doing weird things with might and fury if it’s putting PS warrior at top party support contribution. It’s not a super easy thing to calculate the total amount of buffs since might stacking is cumulative (i.e. thief + any other profession’s fire field > those two separately) and vuln can either be measured in bursts (FGS, stuff like OMM) or sustained over time.

I also know the mesmer estimates tend to be lowball since they don’t include phantasm DPS so that may make them look worse than they actually are. I also don’t think that particular calculator accounts for use of Time Warp.

All that having been said, if and when FGS ever gets nerfed, being able to sustain long-duration might/vuln/fury/etc. over time (and not just for 30 seconds or whatever the time window used in that caclulator is) is going to be more important than just asking how you’re going to get the boss tot he wall to be Fiery Rushed.

That calc also doesn’t seem to take into account pet vulnerability

It does take into account pet vuln. It also takes into account mesmer phantasms. Instead of assuming things, perhaps asking a question is something you both should do.

Tree.3916:

Prysin.8542:

That calc also doesn’t seem to take into account pet vulnerability

It does take into account pet vuln. It also takes into account mesmer phantasms. Instead of assuming things, perhaps asking a question is something you both should do.

unfortunately, ït is then calculating with a sub-optimal pet and sub-optimal pet usage. Usage of a feline pet WILL have a MINIMUM of 3.7 stacks of vulnerability on the target at any time. Usage of anything else will have LESS stacks of vuln on the target.

Anyway, it comes at no surprise that people calculate the ranger incorrectly. This calc wouldnt be the first, nor the last to do that mistake.

Prysin.8542:

Tree.3916:

Prysin.8542:

That calc also doesn’t seem to take into account pet vulnerability

It does take into account pet vuln. It also takes into account mesmer phantasms. Instead of assuming things, perhaps asking a question is something you both should do.

unfortunately, ït is then calculating with a sub-optimal pet and sub-optimal pet usage. Usage of a feline pet WILL have a MINIMUM of 3.7 stacks of vulnerability on the target at any time. Usage of anything else will have LESS stacks of vuln on the target.

Anyway, it comes at no surprise that people calculate the ranger incorrectly. This calc wouldnt be the first, nor the last to do that mistake.

Again you’re wrong. And it’s no surprise you’re wrong because you don’t take the time to ask and continue to make assumptions rather than heed the advice I already gave you to ask questions before making conclusions. if you stopped to pay attention you would understand that the Vulnerability stated on the calculator is in reference to boss fights with Unshakeable (half vuln duration) and the numbers are quite accurate.

So again, instead of presuming yourself to be the smartest guy in the room take a deep breath and ask questions before jumping to conclusions.

Tree.3916:

Prysin.8542:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Mitzruti.5719:

maha.7902:

http://gw2dps.david-reess.de/

Stick in a composition with a ranger, EA warrior, guardian and then like phalanx warrior and engi to handle might/vuln. Then swap the EA warrior for a 30/25 warrior and the guardian for like a thief or something. Then take a look at the numbers for those two classes compared to ranger.

Interestingly, while the ranger’s personal dps isn’t anything special, when you look at the total party dps it looks like rangers bring enough to make them competitive with thieves and eles. …and easily surpass warriors by 2~3k (that is, warriors other than the 1 PS for 25might)

of the available builds there, mesmer, necro and gaurd appear to bring poor damage.

war, engy and ranger table boosting overall party dps as their claim to fame – and thus, if you’re trying to optimize, you don’t want more than one of each.
(their value appears to be, in order: PS war, vuln engy, spirit/spot ranger)
(other note: a 2nd ranger is noticably worse than a 2nd engy or war)

thief and ele for high personal dps.

while gaurdians bring so much defensive utility that having relatively weak damage doesn’t matter that much, for mesmer and necro, this is very much grounds to exclude them from a party… in the same way you might exclude someone for wearing soldier’s instead of beserkers.

at least, that’s what i observe.

I’m not sure how that paricular tool calculates DPS. It sounds like it’s doing weird things with might and fury if it’s putting PS warrior at top party support contribution. It’s not a super easy thing to calculate the total amount of buffs since might stacking is cumulative (i.e. thief + any other profession’s fire field > those two separately) and vuln can either be measured in bursts (FGS, stuff like OMM) or sustained over time.

I also know the mesmer estimates tend to be lowball since they don’t include phantasm DPS so that may make them look worse than they actually are. I also don’t think that particular calculator accounts for use of Time Warp.

All that having been said, if and when FGS ever gets nerfed, being able to sustain long-duration might/vuln/fury/etc. over time (and not just for 30 seconds or whatever the time window used in that caclulator is) is going to be more important than just asking how you’re going to get the boss tot he wall to be Fiery Rushed.

That calc also doesn’t seem to take into account pet vulnerability

It does take into account pet vuln. It also takes into account mesmer phantasms. Instead of assuming things, perhaps asking a question is something you both should do.

In that case, maybe let me know how you’re calculating mesmer DPS. I’d genuinely like to know since if I remember correctly you’re using DnT numbers, and last I checked DnT numbers for mesmer the conclusion was basically “mesmer sustained DPS is really good but the burst is terrible compared to FGS”. I don’t debate that in the slightest but I’m assuming your calculator doesn’t take FGS into account or 5 eles would be the best comp by about 100000%.

I figured you were either intentionally taking it with fewer than max phantasms (to account for the “phantasms die really fast” complaint), not accounting for Time Warp contribution (which is admittedly hard), using a time period so short that the five-second ramp-up time significantly hurts the average DPS, or all three.

Its dps for 30 second fight. So it assumes start up times etc. You would know this if you read the original thread with the spreadsheet etc.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Tree.3916:

Prysin.8542:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Mitzruti.5719:

maha.7902:

http://gw2dps.david-reess.de/

Stick in a composition with a ranger, EA warrior, guardian and then like phalanx warrior and engi to handle might/vuln. Then swap the EA warrior for a 30/25 warrior and the guardian for like a thief or something. Then take a look at the numbers for those two classes compared to ranger.

Interestingly, while the ranger’s personal dps isn’t anything special, when you look at the total party dps it looks like rangers bring enough to make them competitive with thieves and eles. …and easily surpass warriors by 2~3k (that is, warriors other than the 1 PS for 25might)

of the available builds there, mesmer, necro and gaurd appear to bring poor damage.

war, engy and ranger table boosting overall party dps as their claim to fame – and thus, if you’re trying to optimize, you don’t want more than one of each.
(their value appears to be, in order: PS war, vuln engy, spirit/spot ranger)
(other note: a 2nd ranger is noticably worse than a 2nd engy or war)

thief and ele for high personal dps.

while gaurdians bring so much defensive utility that having relatively weak damage doesn’t matter that much, for mesmer and necro, this is very much grounds to exclude them from a party… in the same way you might exclude someone for wearing soldier’s instead of beserkers.

at least, that’s what i observe.

I’m not sure how that paricular tool calculates DPS. It sounds like it’s doing weird things with might and fury if it’s putting PS warrior at top party support contribution. It’s not a super easy thing to calculate the total amount of buffs since might stacking is cumulative (i.e. thief + any other profession’s fire field > those two separately) and vuln can either be measured in bursts (FGS, stuff like OMM) or sustained over time.

I also know the mesmer estimates tend to be lowball since they don’t include phantasm DPS so that may make them look worse than they actually are. I also don’t think that particular calculator accounts for use of Time Warp.

All that having been said, if and when FGS ever gets nerfed, being able to sustain long-duration might/vuln/fury/etc. over time (and not just for 30 seconds or whatever the time window used in that caclulator is) is going to be more important than just asking how you’re going to get the boss tot he wall to be Fiery Rushed.

That calc also doesn’t seem to take into account pet vulnerability

It does take into account pet vuln. It also takes into account mesmer phantasms. Instead of assuming things, perhaps asking a question is something you both should do.

In that case, maybe let me know how you’re calculating mesmer DPS. I’d genuinely like to know since if I remember correctly you’re using DnT numbers, and last I checked DnT numbers for mesmer the conclusion was basically “mesmer sustained DPS is really good but the burst is terrible compared to FGS”. I don’t debate that in the slightest but I’m assuming your calculator doesn’t take FGS into account or 5 eles would be the best comp by about 100000%.

I figured you were either intentionally taking it with fewer than max phantasms (to account for the “phantasms die really fast” complaint), not accounting for Time Warp contribution (which is admittedly hard), using a time period so short that the five-second ramp-up time significantly hurts the average DPS, or all three.

The numbers I posted on our forums were with 0 start up time. The numbers in this calculator by Dekeyz were for 30 second fights and factored in the start up time, so the average dps over 30 seconds is going to be a bit lower.

I’m not entirely sure that explains the differential to be honest. I think DEKeyz is assuming some degree of less-than-optimal phantasm uptime, which may or may not be realistic relative to the other classes (other classes may need to dodge, mesmers/phantasms don’t). I remember looking at DnT’s calcualtions and they were generally in line with my own, even accounting for the 5~ seconds of startup to summon the first three phantasms.

I’m trying to remember what DEKeyz had overall mesmer DPS pegged at but they should be #2 sustained and #3 in 30 second bursts, assuming perfect phantasm uptime. I’m guessing any remaining differential is due to factoring in overall DPS contribution such as banners, vuln, etc.