Guild Wars 2

The longest stealth is 11s, IIRC? Shadow Refuge full wait, then you can leave with 11s remaining?

Traited Shadow Refuge is 20 seconds stealth; you become visible when the SR cooldown hits 40 seconds (unless you attack of course).

Sir Kaboomski.1508:

Sasajoe.1509:

well sorry i should have quoted some random guy from earier above but my point actually was

that stealth while the biggest of issues is not the single problem with this game & its incompetent developers… how can blizzard make so much better AI & Skills (even plain logic & common sense dicate) & Anet cannot ???

It’s not a problem with the development, it’s a problem with the players. I can’t even begin to say how much entitlement people who play this game think they have.

“Refund me this/Nerf that so killing them is easier/Change this so I don’t have to meet these requirements to get this.” It’s getting old, expecially when people give advice and no matter how much you give nothing ever changes.

As a thief I have issues with a couple of particular builds on a couple other classes that I find very difficult to beat while they seemingly mow through groups of enemies, and sure I complain to my friends and on Teamspeak but I don’t go on those forums all day and ask for nerfs. I either don’t fight them, or when I do I expect to lose until I learn how to fight them better. I know I’m nowhere near the most skilled of thief players and I accept that.

Well the thing is the problem is exactly with the development – when there is demand for better balance & it is not being delivered ppl start to leave this game & it becomes unpopular (which http://www.twitch.tv/directory exactly represents)

If gw2 wants to be/climb to the top they should make their game balance better aka hire better developers & balance team & a better marketing team these r the 2 main things they should do.

The current state of stealth ( & many other things for that matter) annoys ppl & customers don’t like being annoyed they simply change the game thus leaving gw2 in its current state = at the lowest places on the popularity list losing their playerbase as if on purpose.

The market is based on supply & demand → when the supplier doesn’t provide enough quality of service the demanding heads to another supplier who can provide better quality.

Stealth lowers the quality of game experience in gw2.

2+2=4 Pretty simple…

Retaining targets after they stealth sounds really clunky, and unbalanced for mesmers. IMO, any attack from stealth should apply revealed, whether it misses, is blocked, evaded, whatever. Even if you whiff at nothing but air – revealed.

Start there and let’s see how it balances things.

Lol cluster definitely breaks stealth. Love how people make up facts and numbers and just throw out as evidence.

Bear on the job.6273:

IMO, any attack from stealth should apply revealed, whether it misses, is blocked, evaded, whatever. Even if you whiff at nothing but air – revealed.

Start there and let’s see how it balances things.

Then stealth uptime should have the time limit removed and you should only break stealth on attacking because if attacking breaks stealth this means that heartseeker or infiltrators arrow/return to gain distance or gap-close would remove stealth and it would be almost impossible to reposition while stealthed to either throw your opponent off or get away from anything. If we must be forced to walk through/away from everything to escape because all of our distance creating moves break stealth, then this would only be fair.

Thieves are already one of, if not the most unforgiving class when there is any amount of lag since they are very combo-based (I would assume ele is the other), so when lag happens and for example, backstab fires 2-3 times, you’d get revealed unintentionally and you would die.

And none of the “it would force thieves to use more skill” garbage… because go play a thief and realize how much skill it actually takes to be decent at it vs above average players (above average players do not die to heartseeker spam; likewise above average thieves do not spam heartseeker). Nerf after nerf thieves already have adapted and have one of the highest skill floors required.

And I disagree Sasajoe.. people are lazy nowadays. People would rather sit dead at boss events than WP and run back. People would rather have bosses nerfed so they can have GW2 alt-tabbed in the background while they read reddit and then get a reward chest with minimal effort. People do not want to learn how to combat a difficult-to-fight mechanic because it isn’t easy enough to counter. It isn’t stealth that’s overpowered, it’s not the developers doing a bad job, it’s that a lot of players won’t work to get to the level they need to get to to fight the mechanic effectively.

IMO the devs are doing a GREAT job filtering out the QQ for all classes otherwise we would end up with a boring nerf sword battle where everyone plays the same stick figure character with the same stats and skills.

I’ve had some good thief vs thief fights that could have ended either way. I routinely destroy thieves that are below my skill level in WvW with ease and I also get destroyed by thieves above my skill level in WvW daily.

Thieves have weaknesses and counters that get pointed out multiple times a day every day. There is no cause to break something to cater to whatever percentage of players just wants an easier time killing thieves.

It is purely evident when the Infusion of Shadows trait was nerfed. I was against it initially but now I don’t even run the trait anymore. People got what they wanted. People got what they wanted before that when assassin’s signet was changed among many other nerfs. Now what do they do? Now they complain about blinds, about initiative, about damage, and still about stealth. There will always be people that will pick something new to be unhappy about.

Anomaly.7612:

godz raiden.2631:

If WoW is so much better then why don’t you play that game instead?

God, I love this argument so much. It’s like going to a restaurant that serves a similar dish as another, except this restaurant serves it cold when they could easily heat it up like it’s supposed to be, then when you ask them to heat it up, they tell you to leave.

Your rebuttle isn’t adding to a constructive discussion at all. They were merely comparing and contrasting a mechanic. That doesn’t mean they don’t like everything else about the game, which is keeping them playing. Your rebuttal isn’t doing anything except being a cop out for discussing an issue people are having. We’re here to discuss and it’d be nice to

Just heat up the food. We don’t need to go somewhere else. If we wanted to, we wouldn’t be here. We just like warm food.

In response to saying WoW has a better stealth mechanic, yeah that’s true. It’s also not as spammable as it is in GW2. Rogues can’t pop in and out nearly as easily. I feel the combo’s Thieves can do BP/HS leap make them rely too much on stealth which in turn makes ANet design them to have to rely too much on it, resulting in them being squishier and spammier. If they were able to have more active defensives that weren’t just evading and disappearing into stealth, they could have more sustainability in a fight and not have to spam abilities quickly and run away when someone looks at them wrongly.

I like the Thief class, I really do. I don’t want it nerfed, I just want it reworked so it’s more fun to play as and against.

Rogue is a duelist, not a assassin/thief.
The thief in this game is a true stealth class that can use it at will. If this mechanic isn’t good for you, go back to whatever game you find it’s working as intended.
We don’t need 2 WoWs. ;D

[/quote] all classes otherwise we would end up with a boring nerf sword battle where everyone plays the same stick figure character with the same stats and skills. [/quote]

- this is true balance

& also i main a ranger (although i have every class at 80) because imo ranger has the highest skill cap seeing how bad rangers compared to other professions.

as i play other classes it feels like a true easymode & while i play ranger i actually have to be on toes the whole time for some "skilled back-stab thief* to try kill me & usually although they dont 1 shot me they wear me out … thief is the most forgiving profession out there with this broken stealth spam – most noob-friendly.

high stealth times ( untargetable) , VERY high mobility, very high damage & SOOO brokenly OP in wvw 1vx beyond imagining.

That’s what people rage about because stealth doesn’t have a normal counter like in more successful mmos there should be much more revealing skills & I’m talking about true ones not like the rangers -sic’em- for four sec of revealed debuff & trying to buff useless pet (which cannot hit moving targets)

we dont need an easymode master escapist & master of annoyance class.

thats why ppl spit on thieves when thy kill them & dance on their bodies.. thats what this stealth mechanic triggers – unfun gameplay & when a game is being unfun its not being played

- in this case it has nothing to do with the skills of back-stab receiving end player
you can dodge it once, twice may be three times but thief can always reset combat & wear you down in time. – that is what’s stealth broken for.

sigh, you guys continually talk about 1v1 in WvW and WvW is not 1v1. They do not base balance around 1v1’s in WvW guys. im sorry they dont, Stealth is pretty much UNDERPOWERED in PVP, so that goes to show how different two game modes can be. Thieves are not a problem, sorry to burst your bubble.

attrail.8613:

sigh, you guys continually talk about 1v1 in WvW and WvW is not 1v1. They do not base balance around 1v1’s in WvW guys. im sorry they dont, Stealth is pretty much UNDERPOWERED in PVP, so that goes to show how different two game modes can be. Thieves are not a problem, sorry to burst your bubble.

Don’t talk 1v1 in sPvP, either. sPvP just as much discourages “fighting fair” or 1v1 as WvW does.

I have no clue where people constantly get their 1v1-hype from. It’s like picking up Chess and complaining about the lack of guns. The whole game pretty specifically discourages fighting 1v1, and yet people rant endlessly about the “lack of balance”. In a non-targeted game format. Well great. Very useful, that input.

Myst.9182:

Stealth should be useless after the opener. Once you know someone is there, they are there. A possibly cool mechanic might be to link blindness with stealth… but we could just end up back here if its not done properly.

But the whole problem with Stealth is not actually the Stealth ability itself, its the skills and traits and enormous alpha that are attached to it. All the highest Alpha skills like Backstab, C&D or traits like Hidden Thief etc are linked to attacking from stealth or put you into stealth.

They should have realigned this so that the thief’s highest DPS skills were ones that had to be used not in stealth and didn’t involve restealthing and that skills used from stealth were the weaker ones. That way thieves would have to choose between opening with free strikes or having high DPS, not getting both together.

Its the same with the other perceived OP classes, no one minds when someone does something well, they hate it when someone does everything well with no downside choices being made.

A simple fix might be as simple as removing Backstab and imposing a 50% damage reduction on any skill either used from Stealth or that Stealths you. Would fit lore-wise as well, you can’t go all out with power when you’re trying to be sneaky, too obvious.

I don’t mind a thief using Stealth as an escape mechanic, its cheesy rubbish being able to use it for killing alpha.

its not the duration that is the problem.. I don’t care if you get 20 minutes of stealth its the fact you can just go pop "oh look target gone try to click me (stab stab ) click ( stab causing stealth) ha try to click me again trololol stab stab dodge run around all while particle effects and flashy colours hide youre cursor.

the “good players” that don’t get killed by thief are usually on a warrior or guard or ele who can just dish out cc and decent aoe

Guessing you play a ranger….

I think Stealth dropping target would be fine if any target-requiring ability would – if you have no target – simply fire an invisible projectile forward to find one, and can hit stealthed targets that way.

In other words. If I could ever actually do anything.

I think that the only change to the mechanic should be an addition that receiving any damage breaks stealth.

Condi ticks—bleed, poison, torment, etc
Damaging fields— symbols, wells, marks, etc
Blasts
Whirls
AoE effects (necro axe #3 for example)

All of em: boom!—revealed state.

Beyond that, I don’t have any issues with stealth or going against stealth classes.

And yes, this is coming from a necromancer.

Sors Immani.8429:

And yes, this is coming from a necromancer.

Of course it is….. lol..

Not possible unless the “revealed” state is completely done away with and I assure you nobody wants that.

Even then, so much of the class/skills/traits are reliant on stealth that you really can’t touch it without a complete overhaul.

But this is the kind of thing that people ask for which is blatantly obvious that the only reason it is desired is so that the thief is an easy kill – and be honest, you know that if this were the case thief would be exactly that. Every thief you encounter, you would kill.

Here’s a trick as someone who plays ranger and thief. Make one of your keys the “target nearest enemy” button. Thief has to get right on top of you to backstab you so hit that button when they become revealed. It’s pretty much the same as what you are asking for without putting you on complete autopilot mode.

the word cheese makes me hungry

Sir Kaboomski.1508:

But this is the kind of thing that people ask for which is blatantly obvious that the only reason it is desired is so that the thief is an easy kill – and be honest, you know that if this were the case thief would be exactly that. Every thief you encounter, you would kill.

No, no, and more no. It’s about adding counterplay for other classes and making stealth a clear strategy option as opposed to a mechanic to exploit at will. Offensive fields can be rolled through. Conditions can be cleansed.

And the reaction about the revealed state was particularly strong. Think of it as if it could actually be implemented:

The class stealths and makes the mistake of wading through a hostile fire field— stealth is ended and the character enters a 1-2 second revealed state. After that, stealth can be re-entered.

Or the thief gets hit with bleed/poison/torment— the thief can still stealth, however it’s broken on the next damage tick and enters a 1-2 second revealed state.

With such an aversion to my class, you act as if I’ve said to give all stealth abilities the same 10-sec ICD that our death shroud shares.

Again, it’s about offering counterplay options and limiting spamability/gankiness.

the only problem with anti stealth mechanics is that it is incredibly OP V.S a thief
more OP than a stealth thief VS other classes.

revealed times temporally brake the class. because how many traits r based around stealth

revealed makes it so u cant remove conditions and a lot of other things
far to many of r traits r based around stealth and breaking it can mean death in seconds.

I believe that stealth has a lot of pro’s and con’s and a lot of things that need to be fixed so that it can be balanced. For one I dont like that people can go into stealth whenever they so please, this makes a very uneventful fight, and very boring. Yes I play a thief, and yes I do this, but it’s because it’s there and I can! Now there is also a downside…If you arent a thief, there really isnt any skills you can do, it’s just you going invisible.

Now my opinion is like some others that have already posted on this thread, and it’s that there needs to be new skills added to the game that unstealths someone, such as the “Flare” skill that Hunter’s get in World of Warcraft. Now in WoW you can just refresh the Flare once it has gone away… IMO that’s slightly unfair, you are basically taking away the only part of the thief that make’s it really good. Now I also believe that thieves and mesmer’s shouldnt be able to go into stealth as often as they can.. Pretty much every 4-5 seconds if they so choose too. I don’t disagree that something as good as “Shadow Refuge” should be nerfed because it is important for many different reasons, and there would be a complete outrage by anyone who plays thief, and use’s the skill.

Now for the portion where I pretty much argue against myself in the fact that I believe that there is nothing wrong with stealth. Yes it is annoying, yes it may be pretty OP, but almost every class has access to it in some way or fashion. Now it may be difficult to get into stealth, but you can go into it, therefore everyone has access to it, therefore it’s not OP. I also believe that stealth give’s an interesting aspect to an MMO in that it allows people to be more offensive, and defensive in order to create a more exciting gameplay!

Some ways that stealth could be toned down, but not destroyed.
-Limit stealth to only one class
-Limit the amount of stealth in one time period
-Increase the CD on Stealth abilities
-Only make stealth available through “Finishers”
-Give every class some Skill that can give them stealth\
-Revamp stealth in Thief that allows it to act in the WoW manner with Combo Points.
-Drain health while in stealth (Or can be traited to heal…Only in thief)

These are just my opinions, so yeah, dont judge

A simple 5 second revealed debuff would fix this problem. Revealed gets applied, whenever a thief leaves stealth or attacks a foe or applies a condition or uses f to stomp or rezz. Then add a trait that reduces the revealed debuff to maybe 4 seconds, so stealth uptime will be higher, but the thief has to invest something to get more stealth uptime (and thus a defense mechanism thats more often useable)

that would become a mandatory trait the thief could not play with out :S

really though a lot of these things mean ALL new traits for the thief..

but stuff like limit stealth more

-Limit the amount of stealth in one time period
-Increase the CD on Stealth abilities.

just means a thief will run from a fight more when they dont get a kill and wait a longer time on the sidelines waiting for cool downs

-Give every class some Skill that can give them stealth.

stuff like this i am 100% ok with does not mater to me as goofy as it sounds….but because i can hit another thief in stealth with a good guess and seeing where there last move may have taken them
like a D/p heart seeker stealth combo.
it can be easy to guess where they will land after a combo like that.

-“Flare” skill that Hunter’s get in World of Warcraft….
i mean we do have “sickem” for the ranger … and it is OP V.S a thief …. if the AI can land it though :S

-Drain health while in stealth (Or can be traited to heal…Only in thief)

now stuff like this ..? punish us for r only survival mechanic ?
we would be taking damage just to remove conditions ?
or would be a mandatory trait that the thief could not live with out

this goes back to where we need less stealth reliant traits.

Im not saying some massive drain health, but something like a thief that can stay in stealth for extensive amounts of time… I believe that it would be alright for there to be some kind of reason to not go into stealth.. Unless traited of course. Now like I said I play thief a lot as well so this isnt me just raging, but rather giving the community idea’s to grow on.

maybe if it is a thing where they r in stealth for a LONG amount of time.
but we dont have perma stealth any more …

and the timer would need to be something longer than the amount of stealth time “shadow refuge” gives.

making it so D/P cant use shadow refuge to help keep them in stealth.
but the thief has so low hp this would really hurt …

lol i cant even tell u how many times i make it out with like 50 hp lol .
and if that one person standing next to me would have just keep pressing 11111 he would have hit me with his sword while i was trying to make my quick escape and killed me.

but i under stand frustration fighting a thief .
but u can beat them 1v1 if u r a step ahead of them .
it helps to main a thief and than move to other classes . if u want to fight thieves 1v1

but most the other classes r set up for some kind of team support so if u r not playing a thief it is best to use team work to out trick the trickster

I think the max amount of stealth can be toned down, but I think the thief would need much more active defense outside of stealth. I play classes on both sides of the spectrum and I know that other thiefs know that at least in spvp going into a team fight mid is almlst a death sentence unless youre actively evading. Stealth doesnt really mean anything as mere aoe that every class is spamming would kill you alone.

Thief would need a couple of things. One would be an active way to clear conditions, right now we have signet of agility which cures one measly condi….on something like a 30 second cd. It could probably be buffed to two condis or maybe an extra condi per enemy in the vicinity up to 5.

Idk guys I guess you can say im biased to spvp. I feel like stealth is useless there so all these changes you guys are suggesting just seems outragous in that setting. Someone suggested for condis to break stealth? Several classes AUTO attacks add bleeds or can proc burning and even poison. Which would absolutely need to change. If a thief was given more ways to fight a condi bomb outside of 30 into shadow arts (a trait line only viable in wvw mind you) then I guess I dont see a problem with it. As of right now, you either go lyssa runes or die…

attrail.8613:

Guessing you play a ranger….

nope I play necro

attrail.8613:

I think the max amount of stealth can be toned down, but I think the thief would need much more active defense outside of stealth. I play classes on both sides of the spectrum and I know that other thiefs know that at least in spvp going into a team fight mid is almlst a death sentence unless youre actively evading. Stealth doesnt really mean anything as mere aoe that every class is spamming would kill you alone.

Thief would need a couple of things. One would be an active way to clear conditions, right now we have signet of agility which cures one measly condi….on something like a 30 second cd. It could probably be buffed to two condis or maybe an extra condi per enemy in the vicinity up to 5.

Idk guys I guess you can say im biased to spvp. I feel like stealth is useless there so all these changes you guys are suggesting just seems outragous in that setting. Someone suggested for condis to break stealth? Several classes AUTO attacks add bleeds or can proc burning and even poison. Which would absolutely need to change. If a thief was given more ways to fight a condi bomb outside of 30 into shadow arts (a trait line only viable in wvw mind you) then I guess I dont see a problem with it. As of right now, you either go lyssa runes or die…

I have never seen a thief have a problem poping out of stealth and stabbing me to death while im in the middle of a team fight. its one of the reasons I have made this post because I cant turn around and focus my attention on the thief because I literally cant target/keep a target on them because of the frequent altho short bursts into stealth and my target wandering off onto someone else

I can pop wells but that forces me to stand within a small area and they don’t have a very long duration most thieves just wait it out or range me to keep up the damage,
if I am actually keeping one at bay they will just run away wait for cooldowns and it starts all over again

I actually had a 4 minute fight with a thief while I was on my wells build because of the lack of targeting and stealth evading attacks forcing anything that could do damage to be wasted as they stealth just as I cast it with the long and obvious animations -.-

Sors Immani.8429:

Sir Kaboomski.1508:

But this is the kind of thing that people ask for which is blatantly obvious that the only reason it is desired is so that the thief is an easy kill – and be honest, you know that if this were the case thief would be exactly that. Every thief you encounter, you would kill.

No, no, and more no. It’s about adding counterplay for other classes and making stealth a clear strategy option as opposed to a mechanic to exploit at will. Offensive fields can be rolled through. Conditions can be cleansed.

And the reaction about the revealed state was particularly strong. Think of it as if it could actually be implemented:

The class stealths and makes the mistake of wading through a hostile fire field— stealth is ended and the character enters a 1-2 second revealed state. After that, stealth can be re-entered.

Or the thief gets hit with bleed/poison/torment— the thief can still stealth, however it’s broken on the next damage tick and enters a 1-2 second revealed state.

With such an aversion to my class, you act as if I’ve said to give all stealth abilities the same 10-sec ICD that our death shroud shares.

Again, it’s about offering counterplay options and limiting spamability/gankiness.

The thing is “wading through a hostile fire field” isn’t always a “mistake”. Most of the time you get it dropped on you.

Deathshroud gives you a rather generous buffer on top of your already high HP pool. It is a completely different mechanic.

You simply don’t understand how broken your suggestions would be.

While you life siphon, a thief would never be able to stealth. Talk about a hard-counter. Perhaps thief should be able to “steal” your life force when you enter deathshroud and instantly remove it.

Shadow Refuge would be useless because instead of needing to knock/fear the thief out of it all you would have to do is drop AOE on it or run around flailing wildly in it and poof… thief revealed. Instantly useless blown utility skill on a long cooldown. Stepping out of refuge before the field disappears already applies revealed so you’re turning a utility skill into a self applied death trap.. Nice.. no really, GG…

You want condition ticks to break stealth. Did you know that there is a trait that removes 1 condition every 3 seconds while in stealth? You just broke this trait because instead of staying stealthed and removing the condition, the condition instead breaks you out of stealth and doesn’t get removed. You would never be able to maintain the 3 seconds required for the trait to work.

I could continue, but bottom line is your stealth uptime would essentially be non existent while in combat. (which by the way breaks a bunch of thief weapon skills, and in turn breaks a bunch of thief builds).

So no, it isn’t “some counter-play”… There already is counter-play. What you want essentially gives you the win all the time. You know full well you could flat out faceroll, or out-sustain any thief easily if this was the way stealth worked.

Ozzy Toxin.3074:

attrail.8613:

I think the max amount of stealth can be toned down, but I think the thief would need much more active defense outside of stealth. I play classes on both sides of the spectrum and I know that other thiefs know that at least in spvp going into a team fight mid is almlst a death sentence unless youre actively evading. Stealth doesnt really mean anything as mere aoe that every class is spamming would kill you alone.

Thief would need a couple of things. One would be an active way to clear conditions, right now we have signet of agility which cures one measly condi….on something like a 30 second cd. It could probably be buffed to two condis or maybe an extra condi per enemy in the vicinity up to 5.

Idk guys I guess you can say im biased to spvp. I feel like stealth is useless there so all these changes you guys are suggesting just seems outragous in that setting. Someone suggested for condis to break stealth? Several classes AUTO attacks add bleeds or can proc burning and even poison. Which would absolutely need to change. If a thief was given more ways to fight a condi bomb outside of 30 into shadow arts (a trait line only viable in wvw mind you) then I guess I dont see a problem with it. As of right now, you either go lyssa runes or die…

I have never seen a thief have a problem poping out of stealth and stabbing me to death while im in the middle of a team fight. its one of the reasons I have made this post because I cant turn around and focus my attention on the thief because I literally cant target/keep a target on them because of the frequent altho short bursts into stealth and my target wandering off onto someone else

I can pop wells but that forces me to stand within a small area and they don’t have a very long duration most thieves just wait it out or range me to keep up the damage,
if I am actually keeping one at bay they will just run away wait for cooldowns and it starts all over again

I actually had a 4 minute fight with a thief while I was on my wells build because of the lack of targeting and stealth evading attacks forcing anything that could do damage to be wasted as they stealth just as I cast it with the long and obvious animations -.-

Well I think you took my experiences out of context. As I was talking about specifically structured pvp. I only think that because if you fought a thief on a node for 4 minutes then you basically won the game. He cant cap anything in stealth and if stealths while youre on a node then you will start de capping it or he cant decap it.

Spvp is also different because he isnt going to back stab you for 8k dmg either, but I digress im pretty sure youre talking about wvw which I dont think the game should be balanced around. As it would break the other two game modes.

off topic but who cares about pve XD

Brujeria.7536:

A simple 5 second revealed debuff would fix this problem. Revealed gets applied, whenever a thief leaves stealth or attacks a foe or applies a condition or uses f to stomp or rezz. Then add a trait that reduces the revealed debuff to maybe 4 seconds, so stealth uptime will be higher, but the thief has to invest something to get more stealth uptime (and thus a defense mechanism thats more often useable)

Best suggestion I’ve read. It’s time to make Backstab and the stealth attacks moves that WILL take you out of stealth regardless if the enemy is hit, they block you, or dodge you. These are attacks of opportunity, if somebody blocks your attack or dodges you, you should lose that.

mmm i have seen a lot of talk about this ..
yes it u stab someone blocking i dont see y it should not take you out of stealth .

but for a missed back stab no

if u hit something it should take u out of stealth

I can agree with block breaking stealth, even an evade. That makes sense

RyuDragnier.9476:

Brujeria.7536:

A simple 5 second revealed debuff would fix this problem. Revealed gets applied, whenever a thief leaves stealth or attacks a foe or applies a condition or uses f to stomp or rezz. Then add a trait that reduces the revealed debuff to maybe 4 seconds, so stealth uptime will be higher, but the thief has to invest something to get more stealth uptime (and thus a defense mechanism thats more often useable)

Best suggestion I’ve read. It’s time to make Backstab and the stealth attacks moves that WILL take you out of stealth regardless if the enemy is hit, they block you, or dodge you. These are attacks of opportunity, if somebody blocks your attack or dodges you, you should lose that.

I agree. They should loose the stealth if they miss an attack, but no revealed debuff. Loosing initiative and stealth is punishment enough for missing a crucial skill.

Also the active defense talk: the thief has a lot of this actually. It just isnt used because stealth is superior in every way without any drawbacks. A well timed shadowstep or certain movement skills are the best defense one could have, as it makes for easy retreats and repositioning even without stealth.

A thief should have multiple options of defending: stealth, high number of dodges, high mobility. These kinds of defense should not all come free or excessive, look at the stealth situation, you cant tell for sure if a nerf to that will actually ruin the thief or not. There are still other ways to defend, other weapons, and builds and possible playstyles. The most builds rely heavily on stealth, there is simply no need to use another tactic if stealth stays superior in all regards of defense.

Just an example of a grandmaster trait that would enable some more options, if stealth ever should get nerfed in a way i suggested:

- Get stealth for 1.5 second whenever you dodge. This stealth is not affected by “revealed”. Also clean one condition everytime you dodge. (no icd)

i dont think a evade/ miss should break stealth ….

as it is right now it is all ready really easy to make a thief blow there stealth time with a single well timed dodge.
wait 1-2 1/2 secs and dodge depending on situation more or less.
-shadow refuge not included

breaking stealth with a dodge /miss is a lil to much .
specially if u r a class that has a lot of access to vigor.

blocks breaking stealth makes 100% sense that i just cant just disagree with
but dodges /misses really start to break it all ….

when a thief goes in to stealth they r doing 1 of 2 things stalling for time or setting up for a back stab. – depending on weapon set up
and we r talking about stalling seconds lol.
timing is everything

Yes reveal on block

Let’s make guardian’s even more of a thief hard counter…

Thieves are fine as is and if you are having problems it’s an user error issue

Well as long as we are spewing ideas, I’d say if something had to be changed about stealth, make it so that you slowly lose endurance while you’re in stealth. Or if that is too much, you stop gaining endurance while in stealth. Vigor/Sigil of Energy do not function while in stealth.

This would tone down the defensive nature of stealth which is probably where all the hate and annoyance of it is coming from, and offensively it would introduce some risk/reward factor. You can still stealth as often as you do now, but you would have to be smart about it and consider the consequences.

ddoi.9264:

Well as long as we are spewing ideas, I’d say if something had to be changed about stealth, make it so that you slowly lose endurance while you’re in stealth. Or if that is too much, you stop gaining endurance while in stealth. Vigor/Sigil of Energy do not function while in stealth.

This would tone down the defensive nature of stealth which is probably where all the hate and annoyance of it is coming from, and offensively it would introduce some risk/reward factor. You can still stealth as often as you do now, but you would have to be smart about it and consider the consequences.

Well the high stealth uptime is the annoyance and the problem, it has no real counter play. This suggestion would cripple the thief a bit yeah, but thats not the core problem. Every mechanic in the game has some kind of counterplay, stealth is the only thing that doenst.

I want one thing and one thing only in dealing with stealth – I want it to not drop my target focus.

I don’t mind them moving and I can’t see it.
I don’t mind not being able to sling targeted attacks while they’re hidden.
I don’t mind them hitting like a truck as they come out of it.

I &#^@ing HATE having to endure possibly the worst auto-target selection behavior I’ve seen in 12 years of playing MMOs.

I came to fight the player not the crap UI.

lol …"Well as long as we are spewing ideas,…. "

most of these complaints/ ideas must be from new players just coming to the game ….
this has ben a on going conversation for ever and not one of these r new ideas ..

same old same old …

but for the targeting issue .
if u dont already have a key assigned to target nearest enemy u really need to set it up.

or learn to play with key and mouse like most good thiefs.
so u can click them in a crowd . thats what i do in thief VS thief zerg fight
also key and mouse really is superior in this game .

u can dodge attacks just by moving your mouse in odd directions and throw people off
who dont use key and mouse

Sasajoe.1509:

As much as i like GW2 i can’t say its not a big failure (while it certainly is) & popularity shows it all if it was better than certain game it would have been ahead in viewers (& may be playerbase).

http://www.twitch.tv/directory

now pls tell me where in the list is WoW & where is GW2 ?

Haha, at least we have more viewers than ESO. Only 290 is kind of sad, though. =\

no one watches the twitch for this game :S
normal you tube vides have loads of views for this game

but as if any of that matters

alchemyst.2165:

Have a “visibility cone” stretch out for about 200-300 inches in front of the player. If a stealthed player walks through this cone, you can see their distorted stealth image that the player sees, but still untargetable.

Also, maybe if a stealthed player attempts an attack you can see them attemping the attack for a split second.

imho, quite a good idea indeed! +1

a t s e.9614:

Are you one of those people who stops attacking when thief/mesmer goes invis ? If yes then you already know what I’m going to say. L2P

Sry to rain on you parade but some weapons need targets making that strategy useless.
Good job at trying to find a way to say L2P

caveman.5840:

no one watches the twitch for this game :S
normal you tube vides have loads of views for this game

but as if any of that matters

Well ofc. The average customer couldn’t care any less about Twitch, and rightfully so.

alamore.1974:

a t s e.9614:

Are you one of those people who stops attacking when thief/mesmer goes invis ? If yes then you already know what I’m going to say. L2P

Sry to rain on you parade but some weapons need targets making that strategy useless.
Good job at trying to find a way to say L2P

You can carry 2 weapons on most classes you know. Off the top of my head I can’t think of a profession that wouldn’t have AoE or long channels or wouldn’t require a target while carrying 2 unique weapons.

Thieves need a nerf! Probably need about 5k hp taken off and 20 seconds revealed! They should also move at -50% speed in stealth, afterall they are being sneaky. Going stealth should be their elite and should be broken by any aoe dmg too.

Nike.2631:

I want one thing and one thing only in dealing with stealth – I want it to not drop my target focus.

I can imagine, you should be able to play with the UI, not against it. IIrc this was changed early on and I think in conjunction with loosing target when clones are created.