Guild Wars 2

as a class that cant damage properly, and as a heavy wearer we should of being at least mid tier at HP.
i accept that we need allies around us to function properly and that we have a supporting role.
but look at the warriors, they have miles better damage, they deal better with conditions they have better mobilty and there HP is massive.
after all this why guardians still have the lowest HP in game?

Guard does great damage, it’s not a support only class for group content. It’s a L2p issue here.

But guardian does way more DPS than warrior and has Aegis and blinds.

I don’t think you know what you’re talking about, maybe you should take this to the guardian section to get an indepth response on how wrong you are.

I believe he is talking about pvp not pve. Sure guardian does good dmg when targets are stationary. Unfortunately pvp does not work like this.

ye dps go look on spvp and wvw´and say how much dps do we have close to 0

It does nice damage in PvP too, Meditation build.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Guard does great damage, it’s not a support only class for group content. It’s a L2p issue here.

guardian is a great support class just the HP on a heavy wearer does not make sense
how does guardian makes great damage to anything that is not standing still?
scepter is the worst ranged weapon in game if u get kited and no one uses it except for pve.

ye and 10 k hp can do much in pvp were u die in 1 sec. then u have the warr on 18k can do it better then the guard
ether the warr need a big nerf or the guard need a big buff on pvp 1vs1

Learn to play issue. Don’t make things worse than they are, Anet can actually listen to you.

See video above.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

It does nice damage in PvP too, Meditation build.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj53ltNJ_FE

Man, that is hot join. Anything works there. Dps guard does not do very well in soloq or teamq. Guardian has a lot of problems: Lack of mobility, lack of stability with meditation build, no way to disengage, no snares and their damage is highly telegraphed.

In short, guardian has a extremely hard time sticking to targets to deal damage. The low hp doesn’t help either. In comparison to dps warrior they are very far behind.

still if u need to go full dmg to win then u can go tank on warr/ele/eng and still have 4 times better dmg then the guard that the big problem and have way to much mobility at the same time we got no cc no mobility low hp low dmg

Nobody denies how good damage dealer guardians are in PvE. Now, PvP is a different story indeed. Triple meditation build is probably the closest thing guardians have to a functional DPS build, but they still lack some of the fundamental things which will not let them shine until they are fixed;

-Low hp, too low.
-Lack of follow up, virtually anyone can escape unless they really want to die.
-Low hp and lack of condition cleansings as a DPS guard as compared to bunker which make them melt in a sec in melee without accomplishing much.

The balance team has to be careful though, you tilt the balance too much to defense and you have an unkillable mosters, hence the current state of guardians; where they do very well as bunker but are atrocious as damage dealers in PvP.

As for PvE guardians, their damage vs non moving targets is superb and their hp is fine.

I think this had to do with all the changes guardians have had; example, back in release aegis worked every other hit, and we have better base health. Now the nerfs followed and everyone got REALLY buffed, basically powercreeped. Guardians need more active defense though, no more hp, specially a DPS guard.

Wrong, mobility is here with Sword 2. It blinks with no range. Has stability if you need it (hint: like any other class, wierd right?). Block heal, Aegis, Blind, Focus block, Shield pushback, Scepter root, GS pull… Torch/Focus burst is sure telegraphed when everything is set on blue fire.
So Hotjoin is not PvP? I’ve been fooled.

Med build has condi cleansing.

ye but go scepter is a joke its the worst u can pick and then we got staff that is full support ye the sword blink is good but the way it work is that u blink to the enemy but 30 % of the time it blind so im not going that way. there are to many bugs on the guardian u att and the way u use spells like gs then u use skill 2 and the enemy go just 100 range from u it hit 40 % of the time. the spells is random.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Wrong, mobility is here with Sword 2. It blinks with no range. Has stability if you need it (hint: like any other class, wierd right?). Block heal, Aegis, Blind, Focus block, Shield pushback, Scepter root, GS pull… Torch/Focus burst is sure telegraphed when everything is set on blue fire.
So Hotjoin is not PvP? I’ve been fooled.

Med build has condi cleansing.

Hot join is considered bottom of the barrel pvp along with wvw. No one in soloq or teamq would recommend joining hot join to learn how to play properly. In fact, many have asked Anet to remove it entirely since it just create players who do not know how to complete objectives and work as a team.

Not many guardians will use 1h sword in pvp for a gap closer, in fact most won’t even bother going dps. Being squishy with active defenses in pvp does not net the same results as it does in pve. You will fold to pressure relatively quickly.

but its kinda sad to put my guard in the trash for the pvp part i want to be good on it and got 1000 h in wvw. i have kill some mesmer and thief and even warr using hammer and got some skill on it but most of the time the enemy is doing way more dmg then what i can do. its on the same build bunker

Meditation guard with speed runes is my favorite hotjoin spec(lol).

DPS guard is fine but even thief has more team support. The only reason to bring a guard instead is for their CC effects (but what team comp needs more CC?)

It’s just very hard to make a balanced guardian build because their survival is so dependent on increasing toughness to improve eHP and healing. You can’t run offensive jewelry on a bunker trait setup and last more than a few seconds in melee, but their DPS drops to nothing if they run soldiers in a non meditation build.

Perhaps Valkyrie stats should be changed to power/toughness healing/precision?

a boost of hp in valor or honor traits would be logical in my opinion
lowest hp on probably the tankiest class of the game is messed up.

Yup, close range with low mobility and virtually no soft cc= a lot of your build is making up for your deficiencies and therefor has less room go very heavy into offence. This is part of the problem that forces guards into bunker to be competitive. This, and all our good traits are in defensive trees. Our offensive trees are pure garbage (meditations are on a hybrid tree).

Aza.2105:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

It does nice damage in PvP too, Meditation build.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj53ltNJ_FE

Man, that is hot join. Anything works there. Dps guard does not do very well in soloq or teamq. Guardian has a lot of problems: Lack of mobility, lack of stability with meditation build, no way to disengage, no snares and their damage is highly telegraphed.

In short, guardian has a extremely hard time sticking to targets to deal damage. The low hp doesn’t help either. In comparison to dps warrior they are very far behind.

But guardians role in spvp is not to roam, but to hold points. Having only a few viable roles per profession in Spvp is intended and a fundamental part of it’s design.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Aza.2105:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

It does nice damage in PvP too, Meditation build.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj53ltNJ_FE

Man, that is hot join. Anything works there. Dps guard does not do very well in soloq or teamq. Guardian has a lot of problems: Lack of mobility, lack of stability with meditation build, no way to disengage, no snares and their damage is highly telegraphed.

In short, guardian has a extremely hard time sticking to targets to deal damage. The low hp doesn’t help either. In comparison to dps warrior they are very far behind.

But guardians role in spvp is not to roam, but to hold points. Having only a few viable roles per profession in Spvp is intended and a fundamental part of it’s design.

Where is this role limitation stated as part of the game design? Why then even have the ability to pick traits/stats/skills/equipment that does not fit your ‘intended’ role?

jihm.2315:

a boost of hp in valor or honor traits would be logical in my opinion
lowest hp on probably the tankiest class of the game is messed up.

No it is completely logical. Having tankiness and the MOST hp wouldn’t be balanced at all, but unkillable, then we would just have another warrior

Because they have significant sources of regeneration, protection, and aegis.

Because, and get this, Guardians have a lot of defensive tools and healing.

Which funnily enough isnt anywhere near that much unless you spec for it, and in the meantime Warriors are given the biggest healthpool and great passive healing aswell as great defensive tools.
Its one of the reasons people jumped at Jons throat when he said Warriors were he said Warriors had high healing by design. Because so do Guardians, but they were heldback in other areas to compensate but Warriors are not.

Yes we all know Warriors have it all. But please don’t ask for Guardians to be buffed up to that level, they are fine how they are.

Guardians are probably the most needed profession for every aspect of the game. Why complain?

They should have never made the HP disparities so huge. It shouldnt be 11k, 16k, 18k… it should be more like 14k, 16k, 18k. Or hell, even 16k, 17k, 18k.

It’s the most balanced class. They can do everything… well it’s more like they’re average at everything.

“Jack of all trades, master of none”, that’s what the guardian is.

Zanshin.5379:

It’s the most balanced class. They can do everything… well it’s more like they’re average at everything.

“Jack of all trades, master of none”, that’s what the guardian is.

That is suppose to be elementalist.

jihm.2315:

as a class that cant damage properly, and as a heavy wearer we should of being at least mid tier at HP.

Not an argument. Necromancers have high HP, Thieves have low HP, etc.

jihm.2315:

as a class that cant damage properly, and as a heavy wearer we should of being at least mid tier at HP.

Stopped reading there. Guards have more DPS than warriors when they’re on equal footing (Warrior not using banners or both being under the effect of banners etc)

Lack of base HP is warranted. Guardians have passive HP regeneration as a base ability, as well as Aegis baseline.

The problem with DPS guardians in tournament sPvP has nothing to do with base HP and everything to do with lack of CC and mobility.

The better question is why warriors have such high hp everything.

Guardian paper HP is a bit misleading. Im only around 18.5K HP and 3200 Armor in PVT gear and Cleric Trinkets but Im usually the last man standing in a zerg fight. Staff 4 + Stability + AH + lots of friendlies = near death to full health.

I wonder about this too. They say its because we have so many heals but i see warriors outhealing me in WvW with 30k HP. It forces me to play twice as well as the warrior im facing just to put him in any danger. Dont get me wrong.. i have 24kHP in a full PVT perma retal build. I can hurt things… but my damage is lower.. my healing is lower my health is lower and my mobility is lower than a warriors. Anyone who says guardian dps is higher than a warriors has obviously never fought one.. because thats false. Unless i want to run full berserker gear in PvP and have 11k hp with no healing im not going to hit harder than 2-3k on a warrior with my most powerful skills. I know this.. I’ve fought hundreds of warriors. I’m not saying we need a buff or nerf.. just saying this is how it is. We are an inherently weaker class than Warrior. In groups we shine but so do warriors. I’m rambling now.
In closing.. Warriors are for people who arent good enough to play guardian.

^^ that may have turned into an Anti warr rant

xsquared.1926:

jihm.2315:

as a class that cant damage properly, and as a heavy wearer we should of being at least mid tier at HP.

Stopped reading there. Guards have more DPS than warriors when they’re on equal footing (Warrior not using banners or both being under the effect of banners etc)

wanna know why thats not true ? because a full zerker warrior will hit over 10k AND STILL maintain surviveability. Guards and warrs are not on equal footing. no matter how they’re geared. Silly dismissal.

Warrior’s outclass of guardian isn’t so obvious in spvp where you have normalized gear and far less options for gear customization (so if he goes bunkery he’ll do substantially lower damage for it and if he goes zerker he’ll take substantially more damage).

However in WvW, the gap becomes blatantly obvious when you see some zerker mix build warriors taking low enough damage to completely outheal a burst over the course of the skill cooldown needed for that burst while dishing out a tad bit lower damage than your very own dps specced guardian.

Hell their Endure pain is almost the same as Renewed Focus (its weakness is more than compensated by the 2 extra seconds of duration) but it’s on a utility slot and doesn’t prevent point capture, nor does it prevent them from doing damage in the mean time.

It’s the option to iron out your stats with gear customization that makes warriors so powerful.

Aza.2105:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

It does nice damage in PvP too, Meditation build.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj53ltNJ_FE

Man, that is hot join. Anything works there. Dps guard does not do very well in soloq or teamq. Guardian has a lot of problems: Lack of mobility, lack of stability with meditation build, no way to disengage, no snares and their damage is highly telegraphed.

In short, guardian has a extremely hard time sticking to targets to deal damage. The low hp doesn’t help either. In comparison to dps warrior they are very far behind.

I am top 10 solo queue NA through maybe 30% DPS guard. The build is a monster. Guards low health pools are fine because tankyness is about heals/sustain, and med builds have that in droves.

Checkmate atheists.

I use a zerker+valk full meditation guardian build. He does a ton of damage and has pretty high survivability just from his natural armor and meditation heal spam, plus lotsa cond removal. His damage is all aoe too~ so many loot bags in wvw. Any more natural HP and they’d be as or more unstopable than Warrior. But keep in mind Warrior is completely 100% broken currently because of passive Healing over Time. Warrior is a whole nother game/dimension entirely and shouldn’t even exist as is. Compare any other class to Warrior and Guardian is the best off out of all of them in comparison.

Just to point out the obvious, Guardians are already unkillable bricks in sPvP. It takes no fewer than 2 players to kill a good Guardian bunker. Depending on team composition, it sometimes takes no fewer than 3. This is a huge problem as it is now. If Guardians were given any survivability buff, let alone something as massive as an HP buff, it would break sPvP.

To give Guardians this sort of buff, they would need to eat some heavy nerfs in key sPvP abilities.

zilcho.7624:

Just to point out the obvious, Guardians are already unkillable bricks in sPvP. It takes no fewer than 2 players to kill a good Guardian bunker. Depending on team composition, it sometimes takes no fewer than 3. This is a huge problem as it is now. If Guardians were given any survivability buff, let alone something as massive as an HP buff, it would break sPvP.

To give Guardians this sort of buff, they would need to eat some heavy nerfs in key sPvP abilities.

guardian having 10,805 health without amulet runes and traits at the heart of the mists and warrior is having 18,372.
its almost twice the HP and warriors overall have more advantages .
i personally belive guardian deserves to have more HP.
at the time there is no reason to play guardian instead of warrior.

GUARDIANS DESERVE MORE HP!! You know what so does thieves, all they have is stealth which get removed upon attacking, they have incredibly low hp, low armor, no block what so ever.

IchigoHatake.5098:

GUARDIANS DESERVE MORE HP!! You know what so does thieves, all they have is stealth which get removed upon attacking, they have incredibly low hp, low armor, no block what so ever.

thief is not bunkering class yes thiefs might need buffs to be more viable mostly in wvw but this topic is about guardians

guards can dish out silly high dmg if they go dps
bunkers/troll guards are already almost unkillable unless you bring army of necros

so no ty

as far as warriors go, they are just stupid broken atm and anet just babysits them, we don’t need another broken class in this game

Cynz.9437:

guards can dish out silly high dmg if they go dps
bunkers/troll guards are already almost unkillable unless you bring army of necros

so no ty

as far as warriors go, they are just stupid broken atm and anet just babysits them, we don’t need another broken class in this game

This. Warrior really should be the only broken class in this game.

I support any notion to buff the minimum HP classes (Guardian, Thief, Elementalist) to a more respectable level. Say 12.000 or so instead of 10.800 HP.

But that would obviously have to come at the cost of a little mitigation, which can be a little op on some bunker builds.

jihm.2315:

as a class that cant damage properly, and as a heavy wearer we should of being at least mid tier at HP.
i accept that we need allies around us to function properly and that we have a supporting role.
but look at the warriors, they have miles better damage, they deal better with conditions they have better mobilty and there HP is massive.
after all this why guardians still have the lowest HP in game?

Guards have low HP due to knee-jerk nerfs during the three major beta events. They didn’t have as much damage as a warrior does now, no where near the self healing, and Guardians were still nerfed really hard. The only thing they had comparable to warriors was HP and they moved it to bottom tier…Its unfortunate that such design choices were made in the beta before people knew how to fight Guardians.

A better question would be- why is warrior’s HP so high?

Arganthium.5638:

A better question would be- why is warrior’s HP so high?

because they are supposed to be semi tanky melee fighter…which is all fine a good… however they ended up having high moblity, good ranged dmg (wat), quite few CCs and the supposed weakness to conditions is non existant

they have too much of everything and that is the problem

“warrior” class exists in every game, it is one of those classes that is easy and fogiving so even bad player can still succeed in game thus feeling awesome and having motivation to play more… sadly many players are bad, or don’t pay attention or are not interested in getting good, or lag, reasons may vary… alone by running fractals for past few months i saw so many people fail at simpliest mechanics it made me lose faith in human intelligence…

i don’t believe anet will ever fix warriors the way they should… majority of ppl like to play OP classes and “own” stuff; if warriors were actually fixed the average Joe would have nothing to do but sit in LA and probably quit game

this post is not to blame Anet,my point is that every MMORPG has this kind of class and nothing will ever be changed

P.S. obviously it is just my opinion, based on experience from other games i played before

Every single high level Tpvp group uses at least 1 guardian, they are in a AMAZING spot right now, and have been for a while, through almost every meta they have been useful. They dont have a lot of HP because they have SO many heals, blocks, blinds cleanses. This is a l2p issue and maybe you should be playing a condi engi or regen war to get yourself familiar with he game.

The issue here is more “Warriors have too much health”, as opposed to Guardians having too little. I agree that it would be more comfortable to have about 2k to 4k extra base health, but even without that Guardian is fully playable.

In case it’s not enough for PvE or WvW, try to swap some armour pieces to have some added vitality (Valkyrie for offensive, Soldier/Sentinel for defensive), you’ll find it works out just fine.

It’s a matter of find what’s comfortable just as much as the “learn to play” comments others have left. No sound-minded player is going to boot you for carrying two or three Valkyrie pieces in your Berserker set, or one or two Soldier pieces amidst Knight pieces. Find what’s most comfortable, or even bring the 10% less damage signet if you’re still struggling and have the space for it.

In this case, don’t look at the problem: Look at the solutions instead.
Plenty of ways to work around this.