Guild Wars 2

1. Ride the lightning: base cd of 15 seconds, invulnerable to dmg during cast.

2. Temestuous Aria: 1 additional might stack, +5 seconds of might duration, add 33% reduced shout CD.

3. Magnetic Grasp: Increase projectile velocity to help land.
Magnetic leap: Increase speed of leap animation.

4. burning speed: reduce cast time to 1/4 seconds, add additional 1/4 seconds to animation. (this is mainly so burning speed can better be used to avoid attacks but does not become too much easier to land)

5. Churning Earth: invulnerable for the first half of animation (1 second)

PS – Remove cleric amulet along with your plans to remove merc amulet…
If you swap +all stats to vitality on leadership runes, and buff its condition removal upon elite use to 5 conditions removed that would open up more diversity for Elementalist. That or change 6th bonus to proc 1 condition removal upon shout use. Additional vit via a vit buff based on precision % to get ele total hp up to around 14.5k-15k with a non vit amulet equiped would be really nice.

This won’t make d/d viable and makes going tempest required still.

Also, cleric amulet has been in the game longer than most players. Why remove an amulet that only performs on maybe 2 classes and makes you unable to kill anyone.

Since this is a very hot topic, I figured I’d weigh in with my 2 cents.

D/D ele used to be strong because it was the king of controlling an engagement. Mainly soft cc and medium range were its greatest assets. Enough CC (chill/cripple/immob/stun/knockdown/knockback) to keep the enemy at bay and avoid being overwhelmed by him. Enough range to keep the pressure up against both heavy melee specs and specs that were built to kite.

It’s innately a low damage spec, but a medium-high pressure spec due to its ability to keep the damage rolling at all times, by virtue of its medium range and ability to control the engagement. (I know this sounds a little vague, but I had to edit out a lot of text to keep things concise)

Heart of thorns did 2 things mainly:
- Establish ranged damage as a cornerstone of combat, with specs like rev/druid/dh (and buffed necro scepter to some degree) being able to apply unprecedented ranged pressure
- Litter melee specs with hard immunities to counter balance the added risk of being a melee spec in this landscape

Both of these are very hard to reconcile with what D/D ele is and has always been. The point I’m trying to make is that trying to make D/D ele work in the game as it is now, would require completely turning around what the spec is, or completely turning around what the game is.

If you’re still here at this point, I’ll try to explain why this shift in meta hits D/D ele particularly hard.

- All the options D/D ele has to keep someone out of his melee range are obviously useless vs ranged pressure. The main tool of damage mitigation it employs is therefore rendered obsolete vs a very large portion of pressure. If you go through the list, pretty much every ability on the D/D set works to stop other melee-based builds from going full pve rotation on the ele. That’s its main tool of damage mitigation. Soft CC. I hope it’s starting to make a little sense.

- D/D ele being a low damage but high pressure spec falls apart when its contestants in melee range get spammed with immunities. The reason old D/D ele could get away with having low innate damage, is because it could keep very high uptime on its damage. Both by staying healthy due to high sustain, and by outranging its opponents slightly. Now think about a scrapper, which is one of the most prominent competitors for the bruiser role. It’s no longer possible to keep a decent uptime of damage since they can avoid so much of it by hard immunities (hammer 4, 3, sneak gyro, stability uptime). Rev is the most notable offender on this front, but daredevil is also very problematic for ele in particular. This ofcourse impacts every class, but D/D ele suffers especially, since it’s a low damage class by nature, meaning it can’t reach killing pressure anymore without proper uptime and control of engagement.

So in short, DD ele can’t really work in this game anymore without either changing everything the spec is about, or changing the game’s landscape.

I’d love to discuss this a little. I skimped over some stuff(DD sustain) to try to paint a clear picture, but in hindsight im not sure it worked out.

Gokil.2543:

Since this is a very hot topic, I figured I’d weigh in with my 2 cents.

D/D ele used to be strong because it was the king of controlling an engagement. Mainly soft cc and medium range were its greatest assets. Enough CC (chill/cripple/immob/stun/knockdown/knockback) to keep the enemy at bay and avoid being overwhelmed by him. Enough range to keep the pressure up against both heavy melee specs and specs that were built to kite.

It’s innately a low damage spec, but a medium-high pressure spec due to its ability to keep the damage rolling at all times, by virtue of its medium range and ability to control the engagement. (I know this sounds a little vague, but I had to edit out a lot of text to keep things concise)

Heart of thorns did 2 things mainly:
- Establish ranged damage as a cornerstone of combat, with specs like rev/druid/dh (and buffed necro scepter to some degree) being able to apply unprecedented ranged pressure
- Litter melee specs with hard immunities to counter balance the added risk of being a melee spec in this landscape

Both of these are very hard to reconcile with what D/D ele is and has always been. The point I’m trying to make is that trying to make D/D ele work in the game as it is now, would require completely turning around what the spec is, or completely turning around what the game is.

If you’re still here at this point, I’ll try to explain why this shift in meta hits D/D ele particularly hard.

- All the options D/D ele has to keep someone out of his melee range are obviously useless vs ranged pressure. The main tool of damage mitigation it employs is therefore rendered obsolete vs a very large portion of pressure. If you go through the list, pretty much every ability on the D/D set works to stop other melee-based builds from going full pve rotation on the ele. That’s its main tool of damage mitigation. Soft CC. I hope it’s starting to make a little sense.

- D/D ele being a low damage but high pressure spec falls apart when its contestants in melee range get spammed with immunities. The reason old D/D ele could get away with having low innate damage, is because it could keep very high uptime on its damage. Both by staying healthy due to high sustain, and by outranging its opponents slightly. Now think about a scrapper, which is one of the most prominent competitors for the bruiser role. It’s no longer possible to keep a decent uptime of damage since they can avoid so much of it by hard immunities (hammer 4, 3, sneak gyro, stability uptime). Rev is the most notable offender on this front, but daredevil is also very problematic for ele in particular. This ofcourse impacts every class, but D/D ele suffers especially, since it’s a low damage class by nature, meaning it can’t reach killing pressure anymore without proper uptime and control of engagement.

So in short, DD ele can’t really work in this game anymore without either changing everything the spec is about, or changing the game’s landscape.

I’d love to discuss this a little. I skimped over some stuff(DD sustain) to try to paint a clear picture, but in hindsight im not sure it worked out.

Yes, I see what you are saying, but keep in mind that d/d was nonviable in pvp for most of GW2’s life. It was really only good in pvp because it passively took enemies down from burn damage while outsustaining.

If you took everything about cele ele before the nerfs and put it into this meta it would still do a good job because people are forced to fight on point and take the bulk of the burn damage.

To me it was a lot of small things that made it unviable. What you said has merit and I can see the shift, but its really a small piece.

D/D ele will probably never be viable again for a dps/bruiser spec unless damage can be completely negated.

FrownyClown.8402:

Gokil.2543:

Since this is a very hot topic, I figured I’d weigh in with my 2 cents.

D/D ele used to be strong because it was the king of controlling an engagement. Mainly soft cc and medium range were its greatest assets. Enough CC (chill/cripple/immob/stun/knockdown/knockback) to keep the enemy at bay and avoid being overwhelmed by him. Enough range to keep the pressure up against both heavy melee specs and specs that were built to kite.

It’s innately a low damage spec, but a medium-high pressure spec due to its ability to keep the damage rolling at all times, by virtue of its medium range and ability to control the engagement. (I know this sounds a little vague, but I had to edit out a lot of text to keep things concise)

Heart of thorns did 2 things mainly:
- Establish ranged damage as a cornerstone of combat, with specs like rev/druid/dh (and buffed necro scepter to some degree) being able to apply unprecedented ranged pressure
- Litter melee specs with hard immunities to counter balance the added risk of being a melee spec in this landscape

Both of these are very hard to reconcile with what D/D ele is and has always been. The point I’m trying to make is that trying to make D/D ele work in the game as it is now, would require completely turning around what the spec is, or completely turning around what the game is.

If you’re still here at this point, I’ll try to explain why this shift in meta hits D/D ele particularly hard.

- All the options D/D ele has to keep someone out of his melee range are obviously useless vs ranged pressure. The main tool of damage mitigation it employs is therefore rendered obsolete vs a very large portion of pressure. If you go through the list, pretty much every ability on the D/D set works to stop other melee-based builds from going full pve rotation on the ele. That’s its main tool of damage mitigation. Soft CC. I hope it’s starting to make a little sense.

- D/D ele being a low damage but high pressure spec falls apart when its contestants in melee range get spammed with immunities. The reason old D/D ele could get away with having low innate damage, is because it could keep very high uptime on its damage. Both by staying healthy due to high sustain, and by outranging its opponents slightly. Now think about a scrapper, which is one of the most prominent competitors for the bruiser role. It’s no longer possible to keep a decent uptime of damage since they can avoid so much of it by hard immunities (hammer 4, 3, sneak gyro, stability uptime). Rev is the most notable offender on this front, but daredevil is also very problematic for ele in particular. This ofcourse impacts every class, but D/D ele suffers especially, since it’s a low damage class by nature, meaning it can’t reach killing pressure anymore without proper uptime and control of engagement.

So in short, DD ele can’t really work in this game anymore without either changing everything the spec is about, or changing the game’s landscape.

I’d love to discuss this a little. I skimped over some stuff(DD sustain) to try to paint a clear picture, but in hindsight im not sure it worked out.

Yes, I see what you are saying, but keep in mind that d/d was nonviable in pvp for most of GW2’s life. It was really only good in pvp because it passively took enemies down from burn damage while outsustaining.

If you took everything about cele ele before the nerfs and put it into this meta it would still do a good job because people are forced to fight on point and take the bulk of the burn damage.

To me it was a lot of small things that made it unviable. What you said has merit and I can see the shift, but its really a small piece.

D/D ele will probably never be viable again for a dps/bruiser spec unless damage can be completely negated.

True, I speak mostly from a WvW perspective though. D/D was, while its popularity fluctuated pretty wildly, always a very solid spec there. PvP has much less emphasis on the playstyle I describe because of capture points, though it’s definitely still present.

Gokil.2543:

…
So in short, DD ele can’t really work in this game anymore without either changing everything the spec is about, or changing the game’s landscape.
…

this makes me so sad. your dd lightning rod build was some of the most fun i’ve had while wvw roaming in the game.

the play style of other ele weaps i just can’t get into.

actually HoT seems to have declawed most non-elite specs in all classes and it’s a kitten shame.

I don’t think these changes will put d/d into the meta but I think it’d be a nice start, and the devs don’t seem to have much time to make drastic changes so I thought I’d recommend some things that require minor tweaking.

I think tempestous aria needs only 20% CD reduction. More can easily be to much.
And there is no need to remove clerics….

It may be too low for the heal, but in order to play a bruiser or glass d/d build in conquest you’re probably going to need most shouts on a pretty low cd in order to get sufficient amount of condi clear. The heal can always be tweaked later, bunker tempest is already pretty silly and its not like 5 additional seconds on tempest heal would break it.

And wolf I dont agree at all, there is all the reason in the world to remove clerics, we do not need players hiding behind a wall of stats being protected from potentially being outplayed, thats horrible game design. Bunkers could still take menders and then actually do a little dmg too.

Gokil.2543:

Since this is a very hot topic, I figured I’d weigh in with my 2 cents.

D/D ele used to be strong because it was the king of controlling an engagement. Mainly soft cc and medium range were its greatest assets. Enough CC (chill/cripple/immob/stun/knockdown/knockback) to keep the enemy at bay and avoid being overwhelmed by him. Enough range to keep the pressure up against both heavy melee specs and specs that were built to kite.

It’s innately a low damage spec, but a medium-high pressure spec due to its ability to keep the damage rolling at all times, by virtue of its medium range and ability to control the engagement. (I know this sounds a little vague, but I had to edit out a lot of text to keep things concise)

Heart of thorns did 2 things mainly:
- Establish ranged damage as a cornerstone of combat, with specs like rev/druid/dh (and buffed necro scepter to some degree) being able to apply unprecedented ranged pressure
- Litter melee specs with hard immunities to counter balance the added risk of being a melee spec in this landscape

Both of these are very hard to reconcile with what D/D ele is and has always been. The point I’m trying to make is that trying to make D/D ele work in the game as it is now, would require completely turning around what the spec is, or completely turning around what the game is.

If you’re still here at this point, I’ll try to explain why this shift in meta hits D/D ele particularly hard.

- All the options D/D ele has to keep someone out of his melee range are obviously useless vs ranged pressure. The main tool of damage mitigation it employs is therefore rendered obsolete vs a very large portion of pressure. If you go through the list, pretty much every ability on the D/D set works to stop other melee-based builds from going full pve rotation on the ele. That’s its main tool of damage mitigation. Soft CC. I hope it’s starting to make a little sense.

- D/D ele being a low damage but high pressure spec falls apart when its contestants in melee range get spammed with immunities. The reason old D/D ele could get away with having low innate damage, is because it could keep very high uptime on its damage. Both by staying healthy due to high sustain, and by outranging its opponents slightly. Now think about a scrapper, which is one of the most prominent competitors for the bruiser role. It’s no longer possible to keep a decent uptime of damage since they can avoid so much of it by hard immunities (hammer 4, 3, sneak gyro, stability uptime). Rev is the most notable offender on this front, but daredevil is also very problematic for ele in particular. This ofcourse impacts every class, but D/D ele suffers especially, since it’s a low damage class by nature, meaning it can’t reach killing pressure anymore without proper uptime and control of engagement.

So in short, DD ele can’t really work in this game anymore without either changing everything the spec is about, or changing the game’s landscape.

I’d love to discuss this a little. I skimped over some stuff(DD sustain) to try to paint a clear picture, but in hindsight I’m not sure it worked out.

Thank you for this. This honestly reconciled my sad heart about D/D ele in this meta. Its still able to hold its own, but for average to excellent players its hard to push for that extra damage to net the kill.

Grimreaper.5370:

It may be too low for the heal, but in order to play a bruiser or glass d/d build in conquest you’re probably going to need most shouts on a pretty low cd in order to get sufficient amount of condi clear. The heal can always be tweaked later, bunker tempest is already pretty silly and its not like 5 additional seconds on tempest heal would break it.

And wolf I dont agree at all, there is all the reason in the world to remove clerics, we do not need players hiding behind a wall of stats being protected from potentially being outplayed, thats horrible game design. Bunkers could still take menders and then actually do a little dmg too.

I personally don´t like clerics (its utterly booring and does not fit my playstyle to use water annyway ….) i use sage, viper, wanderers and on warrior currently demolisher. The only defensive amulet i ever used had been settlers which was some real trolling fun but i did it only for a few matches. I am an earth lover from the beginning regardless of popularity and usually play a balanced build that can do some serious damage. Thats why i use a good number of viper´s in my WvW build which is a mix of Viper/Rabid/Cele. I do not trait water (only eception was the necro army swarming in PvP forcing me to cleansebot with sage ….).

While i would love -33% on shouts i guess Anet won´t do such a large step, and the high aura and weakness uptime from that might be a bit much. I already trait tempestious aria. I don´t play healbot ele and did´t finde a heal based build i woul like till now. Did duell another ele in WvW and guess he was surprised by my build going down very fast. He retraited afterwards to get me ;-). I think he expected a fresh air S/F duell ele and got smashed by my hybrid within seconds :-). I would like to play arcane again, but can´t realy make it work again :-(

D/D is already strong, not META because it requires you to learn your rotations and combos but still very strong.

@Wolfric: “I would like to play arcane again” – Try a burn variant, on D/D. Fire runes + Arcane Power. Water top mid top – Arc top bot mid – Temp bot mid bot…. That’s going off memory tho, need those on hit condi crit applications lol.

I already do it with fire, which seems the better sollution. Filling the toolbar with 4 shouts works great and substituting with arcane did´t pay off. Traited arcane brilliance feels good but it doesn´t beat wash the pain away and also arcance shield with 60sec doesnt´beat a shout.

sephiroth.4217:

D/D is already strong, not META because it requires you to learn your rotations and combos but still very strong.

@Wolfric: “I would like to play arcane again” – Try a burn variant, on D/D. Fire runes + Arcane Power. Water top mid top – Arc top bot mid – Temp bot mid bot…. That’s going off memory tho, need those on hit condi crit applications lol.

I can assure you its not meta what so ever… learning rotations isn’t why its not in the meta, I know plenty of great d/d eles that would agree. d/d just doesn’t have the damage it requires unless you can might stack and have pretty decent power/prec/condition dmg, might stacking on ele isn’t really that great anymore so the dmg will be modest at best unless you perhaps land an earth overload and go to town. you’ll be needing some toughness and healing power if you want to stick around in the frey as well, you pretty much NEED an amulet with every stat like cele plus some might stacks to become truely effective vs competent players with good builds.

I don’t really want cele to come back but I do think d/d deserves to have more methods to avoid dps, since if you’re going a dmg route you basically need to build fairly glassy in stats.

I do preety good damage with viper, but its too squishy without some utilities like arcane shield on low CD. I can´t contribute in teamfights well, because if focused with more then 1 i can only disengage immidiately.

Wolfric.9380:

I do preety good damage with viper, but its too squishy without some utilities like arcane shield on low CD. I can´t contribute in teamfights well, because if focused with more then 1 i can only disengage immidiately.

yup! Das da problem mang

Well D/D has been dead in WVW for a long time – it just can’t take the damage with all the sustain nerfs + low HP.

Doesn’t help either that ride the lightning has been fundamentally broken since the game came out:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DAYiEMR-Rv8
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uZZLSh9IQA0

Still a strong believer that melee ele needs to be more of a magic armor type of class where if you have a type of boon on the ele it becomes super hard to kill and dose a lot more dmg. Tempest getting stronger protection is nice but i feel it needs to be higher and effect condition dmg to a point. There also needs to be a boot to fury on the ele class too.
The trick would be having icd on the effects so you cant have it perma up and having a boon removed is hard hitting. So say having protection gives you -10% added dmg taken and -20% condtion dmg taken once that protection falls off so your with out the effect at all it goes on a 15 sec cd to where your effect will only trigger 15 sec if you have protection up.

So magic armor that has a hard counter of boon strip or anty magic.