Guild Wars 2

Everyone and their mother plays Dagger/Dagger with 60 points invested in the bottom trait lines. While I think its great to have a ‘solid’ build that many enjoy, its not so great when we have a direction -build wise- that is a way ahead of the rest.

Many players have various armor and weapon sets in bag, that is not the point. The point is point spread and how now the community seems to agree that Power/Crit line may not be that good at all. In fact, I have yet to find a post with a solid guide and good response from the community with more than 10 points in Power line!

DD and its close cousin FD with a Staff in bag seems to have the vote of the community as the ‘best’ build for WvW and s/tPvP.

What do you think, DD or SD with Staff in bag and 60 points in bottom 2 trait lines is it really that good? Or is it just a fad and in fact ALL weapon sets are just as powerful in WvW and s/tPvP?

I play D/D but I haven’t yet invested a single point in to Arcana and I likely never will. Would my build be better if I did? Probably. But I don’t have a problem contributing to a team or holding my own in PvP or PvE. And I’ll not support a broken and flawed game mechanic anyway, but daggers isn’t the problem, the arcane tree is. If an entire profession is being pidgeonholed in to a single trait build with only minor deviations allowed, something is broken.

I’ve been thinking about it, and I don’t like the fact that the Arcana line is so powerful.

I just can’t plan out a build without having 30 points into it because even if I ignore all the traits in it the cooldown reduction on attunement swapping is such a big deal… Not having the reduction severely limits your access to skills (As you will be locked out of an attunement for a full 15 seconds rather than ~9 seconds, which makes a difference, especially as a class that is expected to swap attunements often to access multiple skills)

30 points into healing isn’t as mandatory (Can easily go less if you aren’t worried about conditions) so isn’t a problem.

D/D is also useful due to multiple factors: Mobility (Highest mobility weapon set for getting into and out of combat), Burst (High damage attacks), Speed (Abilities animate quickly and have short cooldowns) which makes it superior to other weapon choices for a lot of things.

The problem is that Fire line traits are horrible and to actually utilise them you have to stay near constantly in fire attunement. Putting traits in a line just for bonus statistics seems pretty wrong.

It’s the same problem with guardian whos power line is also really bad and most guardians put 30/30 (or similiar variations) into toughness/vitality line which actually increases dps.

Similiar to ele whos minor 25 water trait increases dps by some huge margin. It’s just you have better offensive trait in defensive lines than in offensive ones plus, of course decreased recharge for attunement change in arcane line.

It’s entirely the attument swapping cooldown that “forces” me into arcane. I would probably always take 10 points for the buffs on swapping. The cooldown reduction needs to be removed and just left at 9 seconds. I don’t know what would replace it thoguh as everything else I can think of would be OP.

I’m starting to see a few threads praising the merits of fire based staff builds. I even saw a scepter/focus thread recently, though I suspect there’s still more work to be done in that area.

I’m thinking it’s a fad. The Elementalist used to be universally reviled as “underpowered” and in serious need of a buff. Our bugfixes hadn’t even dropped, and some guy started posting videos of him totally pwning in pvp as a d/d elementalist, and furthermore telling us how he does it. Next thing I know, people of other classes are whining that d/d elementalist needs a nerf.

Now, the accepted wisdom is that d/d traited heavily into water and arcana is the only way to play… but I think that’s just because we haven’t yet had some genius both develop and popularize other highly effective methods of playing. I’ve seen a few promising fire staff threads, but they didn’t come with reams of videos showing just how awesome it is. Thus, I think it’s just a matter of time.

The necessity to go 30 in Arcane is a mith really, you can do well even with 10 only ..or even zero eventually, the problem is if you don’t want to go the crit chance way the fire traits are pretty awful as they force you to stay in fire to do anything

Fire is worthless. Make Fire less worthless, please.

10 points into fire is nice fro 10% for when u swap into ur fire attunement cycle skills and move on 10% more dmg on fire grab ring of fire fire breath and burning spd is not bad at all

Arheundel.6451:

The necessity to go 30 in Arcane is a mith really, you can do well even with 10 only ..or even zero eventually, the problem is if you don’t want to go the crit chance way the fire traits are pretty awful as they force you to stay in fire to do anything

o.O the cooldown reduction is quite important for keeping your boons up.
Attuning to water and catnips are your only means of regeneration buff and the same with earth to protection to armor of earth.

Honestly out can make do with 10 arcane but you are removing a lot of tankiness from the build o.O

LieutenantGoogle.7326:

Arheundel.6451:

The necessity to go 30 in Arcane is a mith really, you can do well even with 10 only ..or even zero eventually, the problem is if you don’t want to go the crit chance way the fire traits are pretty awful as they force you to stay in fire to do anything

o.O the cooldown reduction is quite important for keeping your boons up.
Attuning to water and catnips are your only means of regeneration buff and the same with earth to protection to armor of earth.

Honestly out can make do with 10 arcane but you are removing a lot of tankiness from the build o.O

Not really, in a 5vs5 format I nomally play this 0/20/20/20/10 with berserker amulet and s/d plus divinity runes, aburst oriented build doesn’t rely on fast attunement switching

Firstly, there is no such thing as a single element Ele. because you have to use ALL of them effectively regardless of what weapon your using.

Secondly, the D/D FoTM Water/Arcana build is exactly that. Its a solid build that works for some people really well, and many others have learned to ape it because they are mostly not capable of coming up with their own build and must be spoon fed. Simple as that.

Thirdly, all the weapon sets have viable builds that are based in Power/Precision. There are many threads about this and just because they don’t post reams of videos to boast about it does not make it less true.

Lastly, go to Heart of the Mists and spend many hours there swapping out gear and trying various trait specs. Learn what works best for you. Don’t listen to the mindless sheeples. Trust me when I tell you that there are plenty of viable builds.

i would disagree with the d/d s/d build with staff as swap is best for WvW. when in spvp, i dont do it enough to have a solid opinion, but in WvW D/D ele to me is a simply annoyance.

they dont do the dmg u need on staff when in a seige, they got massive mobility, but their survivibility is nothing compare to a guardian or warrior charging the enemy zerg.
their burst dmg for the short time they can be in the enemy zerg is so-so. nothing special considering they are forced into bunker to even get that off. with a 5 target aoe limit, the few aoe that d/d pulls off while in an enemy zerg are a none factor when compared to the shear amount a staff ele can set and considering a staff is always a long range, they can afford to go more into the squishy glass cannon then a D/D setup ele can ever reliably go.

even as a support a full staff offers lightning field for aoe stun, aoe chill field, and a line aoe cripple. also a massive sized water field. while the skills still have 5 target limit, the field effect for finishers do not. the combo effects a staff can provide a zerg can turn the tide.

in both dmg and support a staff provides better options when u consider the effect on a zerg. with the low cd and large # of aoes a staff dmgs most if not the entire zerg over time. the larger and more varied fields available to a staff provides much higher support then a small close target aoe heal. d/d and s/d definitely win out if ur only talking about small squad combat. but the majority of WvW is determined by A) zerg B ) seige/supply

while they are useful i would definitely not say it is the best wvw wpn set

the scepter can do an impressive amount of burst, unfortunetly it has been designed very poorly, dragons tooth and shatterstone are far too unreliable to use in anything except pve dungeons where the enemy stands still

it doesn’t really make sense since the tradeoff to switch from d/d to s/d is not worth it, you dont get a dps increase and you lose reliability, all you gain is group might stacking bonuses

its been months since the game launched and nothing has been done about dragons tooth, you can literally walk out of it, not run but toggle walk and just step out of the circle

absolutely ridiculous

S/D provides two blinds, armor of earth, two heals. Agreed for dragon’s tooth (and some other similar skills) but besides from that s/d is middle ground between control and damage. Especially for prolonged fights.
It is not all about damage.

@OP – the problem is players do not want to discover builds but to have one single very efficient build which leads to favoring just a few. Especially for spoon-fed kids, really. The only thing to consider is gear at endgame and then you can reset your traits easily to try different things. I rarely see this.
There are other builds but not so effective and players do not want to try them for fun, they feel they must have ultimate build around a single weapon set. For a lot of ppl the game is a chore. The funny part is such builds are not versatile at all and when Anet makes an update that affect it, people will whine on the forums on the time and gold they spent.

Pretty much this. The community is just a lot worse than GW1, maybe because it was popular from the very start. There are some constructive posts and people trying stuff but not enough. The mentality is just wrong. People are give choices they do not utilize, they want best build and farming the ‘best’ zone etc..gets boring at the end especially if you want to do something else.
I’d advise you trying your own build before looking up the most popular ones.

Sigh this whole “I hate DD” ,“FOTM” stuff is garbage. Spoon fed? sure I read the builds others put up and over time its changes simple as that.

Lets get some misconceptions out of the way.

First off is that every DD ele is someone who is new to the class. I am 400 hours in on my toon so this is not new.

Second fire line is mostly garbage and if you have played the game longer than a min you realize whether your dps or tank only depends on gear and traits are by far secondary. Stats are what matter.

Third. Placing points in arcane has less to do with the traits and more to do with the reductions. Its not newb to be efficient. I remember when they nerfed EA I tried to spec out of it. Beside missing having the skill the cd on attunement messed up my chains and overall flow. It was unacceptable for my play style. I think that how it is for many eles. We have griped for months that base attunement cd should shorter.

Fourth, ele is one of the strongest support classes in the game. Not everyone started the class to spec into power/precision. And while its true it should be a very viable option at the same time realize the strengths of each class. Thief support is garbage compared to us and guardians. Most other classes are the same. that’s just how it is some lines on some classes are nearly too good to pass up ( see shatter mesmer ).

Fifth. WvW is about mobility when roaming. DD is super mobile. When at a siege I switch to staff. Its not anymore complex than this. When running with a zerg you may want to go S/D for some mobility and range but most of the time unless your chasing a properly traited GS warrior or a thief you’ll likely catch up and CC the target on DD.

As far s your last question goes. Dependent upon the situation each weapon set shines. Not going to break each down but look at S/F strongest defenses you get out of our class, with strong scaling with condition damage, more cc than most targets can handle, lots of auras, and completely lethal vs someone using a projectile weapon (not all ranged weapons use projectiles see scepter fire, wind, and necromancer )

In the long run you don’t have to but can carry each weapon set for versatility. the last 3 trait lines scale well with our support capabilities just like it does with other support capable classes. DD is fotm at the moment but there was bunker staff before that and you never had to put points into arcane to run that build so……..

One last thing you don’t have to come up with your own build. We share builds that work because we are a community no more no less. There finite options as far as build diversity goes in this game. Many builds will look alike even if you trait 20 or so points differently. The only thing that matters is that no matter what build you use you play it to the best of your capability. You don’t have to create the recipe just prepare it well. That not an excuse to be lazy and not add your own touches in the process but there no point reinventing the whole recipe.

SuiRyuJin.4615:

in both dmg and support a staff provides better options when u consider the effect on a zerg. with the low cd and large # of aoes a staff dmgs most if not the entire zerg over time. the larger and more varied fields available to a staff provides much higher support then a small close target aoe heal. d/d and s/d definitely win out if ur only talking about small squad combat. but the majority of WvW is determined by A) zerg B ) seige/supply

while they are useful i would definitely not say it is the best wvw wpn set

With specific respect to WvW, I agree with this statement. Running a small 5man team (as I do) taking Yaks, supply camps, camping enemy support lines when they are assaulting our towers its d/d all the way. If i spent my time in a Zerg, defending/attacking towers or spent the majority of my time in EB it would be staff all the way, or a condimancer.

Effective class spec comes down to application and common use. Determine where you spend your time and how you apply your skill set. Then base your spec primarily around your most common interaction.

P.S. I won’t quote all of the post from TheGuy, but I couldn’t agree more with his entire post.

The main reason that I’m not too much into offensive builds is the fact that the current gear options are either all glass cannon or defensive with added power. There’s no middle ground. An example:

Say I wear Power/Toughness/Vitality gear. And I decide I want to do more damage. My options could then be:

Knight’s Gear (Toughness/Power/Precision)
With power demoted to a secondary stat, and precision only half as effective for my dps, I now do the same damage except I get a bit more toughness.

Berserker Gear (Power/Precision/Critical Damage)
Ok, so now I get twice as much damage as that I had before…but the 2 minor stats combined have the same effect as power has by itself, so basically I just lost 25% stat points.

Rampager’s Gear (Precision/Power/Condition Damage)
Power gets booted to second fiddle again, but between precision and condition damage, you’d think I’d do more damage. Well, that would be except they don’t work together at all.

Valkyrie’s Gear (Power/Critical Damage/Vitality)
A decent set…at least Power’s a major stat here. However, what applied for the Knight’s gear applies for this set as well. I will still need to get precision from somewhere or the added damage will be meager at best.

I could continue for the other options but I think I’ve made my point. It takes twice as many stats to increase your damage by the same amount once you’ve maxed out power, and you can max it by picking one of the better defensive sets. Combined with the fact that only D/D has the burst capability required for a crit build, this makes the offensive path very inefficient for the Elementalist. Combine that with the fact that our base defense is the lowest in the game, our best traits are in water&arcana, and you can see why defensive builds are so popular.

ThiBash.5634:

The main reason that I’m not too much into offensive builds is the fact that the current gear options are either all glass cannon or defensive with added power. There’s no middle ground. An example:

Say I wear Power/Toughness/Vitality gear. And I decide I want to do more damage. My options could then be:

Knight’s Gear (Toughness/Power/Precision)
With power demoted to a secondary stat, and precision only half as effective for my dps, I now do the same damage except I get a bit more toughness.

Berserker Gear (Power/Precision/Critical Damage)
Ok, so now I get twice as much damage as that I had before…but the 2 minor stats combined have the same effect as power has by itself, so basically I just lost 25% stat points.

Rampager’s Gear (Precision/Power/Condition Damage)
Power gets booted to second fiddle again, but between precision and condition damage, you’d think I’d do more damage. Well, that would be except they don’t work together at all.

Valkyrie’s Gear (Power/Critical Damage/Vitality)
A decent set…at least Power’s a major stat here. However, what applied for the Knight’s gear applies for this set as well. I will still need to get precision from somewhere or the added damage will be meager at best.

I could continue for the other options but I think I’ve made my point. It takes twice as many stats to increase your damage by the same amount once you’ve maxed out power, and you can max it by picking one of the better defensive sets. Combined with the fact that only D/D has the burst capability required for a crit build, this makes the offensive path very inefficient for the Elementalist. Combine that with the fact that our base defense is the lowest in the game, our best traits are in water&arcana, and you can see why defensive builds are so popular.

What you literally do is spec more soldiers into your accessories and your runes using crest or you do like everyone else and mix and match. Rule of thumb is crit wont mean much without a proc via sigil or trait or crit damage to go with it. So if you just want to hit like a truck and be survivable then you spec full soldiers head to toe. You could end up anywhere between 3k-3.3k attack and defensive too boot.

The middle ground is PVT lol. It is literally the primary offensive stat paired with both defensive stats in equal margins (cant get any more middle than that). Even clerics has power and carrion has vitality and power. There is honestly a bunch of middle of the road stat wise.

Cempa.5619:

Everyone and their mother plays Dagger/Dagger with 60 points invested in the bottom trait lines.

I don’t?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEEQJAoYhEmKbxx5gjFAkHn4SJhCKMKIiowDlCzA

I never played a build with 30 Water / 30 Arcana

My D/D build is 0/20/0/30/20
and my current S/D build is 30/10/10/0/20

I just can’t drop below 20 in Arcana (vigor on crits <3), and NEVER use 30 in Arcana, Evasive Arcana is overrated.