Guild Wars 2

got hit by 9k fire grab (screenshot).

dude (Azzazol) is rank 56. does damage scale with rank?

Rank has no impact on any of your combat abilities.

Upper range for Fire grab in sPvP is around 18k under better than ideal conditions.

Caffynated.5713:

Rank has no impact on any of your combat abilities.

Upper range for Fire grab in sPvP is around 18k under better than ideal conditions.

rank scaling was a joke, but how does it get that much.

i was probably burning. and it critted? but that’s just 4k. how many boons get you that much damage? my weakness?

Easy, you must be a valkyrie ele, he must have used prob a zerk amulet, you were burning , had weakness and was maybe below 33% HP, he had might stacks , fury and scholar runes

Fire grab has a damage coefficient of 2.8 against burning targets.

A glass canon ele can get ~2400 base power, +250 bloodlust, +875 from might.
Top damage on a dagger is 981.
You can get 62% crit damage in sPvP.

3,525 power * 981 weapon damage * 2.8 skill coefficient / 1836 (minimum armor in sPvP)
5,273 noncrit
11,180 crit

Then you can add modifiers like:
+10% damage when above 90% health (scholar)
+10% damage when above 90% health (vital striking)
+10% damage when attuned to fire
+5% damage against burning targets (x2)
+20% damage against vulnerable foes while attuned to water
+20% damage against foes below 33% health
+x% from vulnerability
etc.

great, thx, I tracked all numbers/calculation. bloodlust and might 25 stack I imagine are “better then ideal” hypotheticals, fine.

where did you get 2.8 damage coefficient?

speaking of, against what sort of enemy armor is tooltip damage calculated? are tooltips trustworthy?

for instance my power is 1899, armor 1896
so
1899 power * 981 * 2.8 / 1896 my_armor(?) = 2751 damage for fire grab vs burning, while my tooltip indicates 1950 vs burning.

so may be armor is some other, hypothetical target armor game average number? or tooltip is wrong?

Extensive research and testing was done by the community to figure out the damage coefficients for every weapon power. Few have changed since the project was completed (at least that have appeared in the patch notes).

I have no idea how they calculate the tooltip and it’s very rarely anywhere near the damage I actually see in game.

If you get lucky and get the upper range damage on your fire grab you can hit 8k-9k on an extremely squishy target easily using the standard 0/20/0/20/30 build (this factors in some might stacks (9), +5% sigil of force, +20% from bolt to the heart, and +10% from water VI.)

@Caffynated: I believe the tooltip is calculated using average weapon attack against a 2.6k armor target.

You can do this yourself. Taking 10/25/0/25/10 traits with all the percent damage modifiers and a zerkers amulet. Go up to a heavy golem and do this rotation: Ring of Fire to get the golem low enough for Bolt to the Heart, Burning Speed through the golem for burn, Arcane Wave during the BS for 3 Might, Start Casting Fire Grab, Swap to Water for Piercing Shards proccing off of Weak Spot, and hit Zephyr’s Boon off of Frost Aura before Fire Grab crits. Consistent 8.5k damage range against the heavy golem, with no vulnerability but weak spot and only 3 might stacks. Easily goes much higher in real combat against lower armor targets with vuln/might.

Other things to consider are damage bonuses. In the right circumstance, you can hit people significantly harder. Tough to tell from your combat log, but that might have been a shot buffed by bolt to the heart. That would be 20% alone….

It isn’t uncommon for me to break 10k with fire grab randomly in fights because of things like that.

If only FG weren’t so buggy to land…

Go to wvw and you will get hit with 13k+

Backstab and heartseeker do more damage with less effort, so I see no issue here…

Linnael.1069:

You can do this yourself. Taking 10/25/0/25/10 traits with all the percent damage modifiers and a zerkers amulet. Go up to a heavy golem and do this rotation: Ring of Fire to get the golem low enough for Bolt to the Heart, Burning Speed through the golem for burn, Arcane Wave during the BS for 3 Might, Start Casting Fire Grab, Swap to Water for Piercing Shards proccing off of Weak Spot, and hit Zephyr’s Boon off of Frost Aura before Fire Grab crits. Consistent 8.5k damage range against the heavy golem, with no vulnerability but weak spot and only 3 might stacks. Easily goes much higher in real combat against lower armor targets with vuln/might.

yeah…
4.7k is what im maxing. i sort of tracked all traits to make sure i was getting all you mentioned – but aint happening.

burning speed only gives 1sec burning, not sure if im squeezing entire rotation in it.

also, ring of fire tooltip says 5sec burning, but golems are getting no condition. is it bugged?

ring of fire is burning on the ring…. you get 5 sec there, but if the golem is in the middle, it won’t be burning… the burning speed should be placed so the golem stands in the fire line, that way you will get much more burning on it….

anyway… not sure about the numbers, didn’t try it yet :/

Ring of fire only causes burning if they move through the ring’s fire field. The initial blast doesn’t cause burning. The general strategy is to use burning speed so that your fire field lands under your opponent while they’re knocked down with updraft/earthquake so that it continuously applies burning. Then quickly turn around and hit them with firegrab. You can also use fire dagger #2 or fire scepter #1 to apply burning just before you hit fire grab.

right, I remember now, they have to cross the circle in-out right? for ring of fire to burn.

the weird part is that a bunker hitting for almost 7k with crit using a soldier amulet is stupid. They should scale this to a make it hit hard with crit dmg but not just pure power.

Swim.6830:

Backstab and heartseeker do more damage with less effort, so I see no issue here…

Sry i think u got your info wrong, fire grab burning +1 skill and ele have swiftness
thief have to
1)pre cast CnD > Steal > chase after target without swiftness that need to position behind them
2)black powder > heart seeker > may add steal > chase after target without swiftness that need to position behind them

I don’t see how fire grab need less effort

Edit: For that much of work, it only hit around 5-6k being an all zerker gc on another gc but fire grab hitting around 7k using a soldier amulet on a gc is insane.

Lol at you thinking thief is harder to play.

Lonely, you’re doing it wrong. A gc thief can backstab a gc target for 10-17k every 4 second. Fire grab hits slightly harder when comparing gc builds, but has a 45 second cooldown and a glass ele is paper with no ability to stealth.

…and this is what happens in WvW, I am in full PtV with zerker weapons and 16k is not normal.

-> http://imgur.com/a/mcn5T

Post-Patch (Scepter & Dagger Spec forever love)

7,518 Crit by Dragon’s Tooth
5,921 Crit by Phoenix
6,167 Crit by Phoenix
5,082 Crit by Phoenix
11,844 Crit by Fire Grab
14,176 Crit by Churning Earth

11,776 Crit by Fire Grab

4,364 Crit by Lightning Strike
6,934 Crit by Phoenix

5,877 Crit by Dragon’s Tooth
5,764 Crit by Dragon’s Tooth
4,149 Crit by Phoenix
15,434 Crit by Churning Earth
11,928 Crit by Churning Earth
4,680 Crit by Lightning Strike

7,093 Crit by Burning Speed

10,870 Crit by Fire Grab

16,659 Crit by Churning Earth x2

7,294 Crit by Churning Earth

13,170 Crit by Churning Earth

13,300 Crit by Churning Earth

14,025 Crit by Churning Earth

105,457 Crit by Churning Earth

I never get this kind of damage. maybe opponent is under-geared?

I played ele since beta. I will tell you the average damage in WvW against burning foes is 5k for firegrab and 6k for churning earth. Their range is 3k to 7k for firegrab and 4k to 9k for churning earth. I run 53% crit and 43% crit damage

Fuzzion.2504:

I played ele since beta. I will tell you the average damage in WvW against burning foes is 5k for firegrab and 6k for churning earth. Their range is 3k to 7k for firegrab and 4k to 9k for churning earth. I run 53% crit and 43% crit damage

this is more like what I see in sPVP.

Dese.1382:

…and this is what happens in WvW, I am in full PtV with zerker weapons and 16k is not normal.

omg another burst ele! Do you solo or small group roam in wvw? if so, I really hope I find you and have fun duels. I’m from bg.