Guild Wars 2

I played Phanta’s D/F Tempest last week, it was fun for trolling people in hot joins or in solo queue who doesn’t know what Tempest capable of but for people who knows what they are doing when u use an overload it is a big sign of focus me I can’t do anything about it in next 5s.

It is like leech form, u transform and everything starts hitting u. A shatter Mesmer will make a quick work of you in that 5s and that is with a defensive build having protection up all the time. Leech form has big payback but not overloads.

I gave up my hope of using abilities/switching attunements during overloads but it should be at least possible to dodge and not cancel overloads.

One more thing is heal on aura s work for only overload auras I had a feeling it was not working for fire aura, focus 5, it was not healing.

Yeah… you just become a hopeless channeling dummy. I knew this would happen… they don’t care about stability, as it’s optional. See, it’s OPTIONAL to use our CLASS MECHANIC. Our elite – Tornado – at least isn’t channeled, and has a “turn off” button.

So are you saying overloads do nothing when your channeling them? They do and some of them mostly air and fire are stronger then “spamming 1 like a dummy.” Water overload heals for a lot and removes a lot of conditions earth overload is a good soft cc tool AND a good stab. That an your getting protection and other effects when overloading.

Jski.6180:

So are you saying overloads do nothing when your channeling them? They do and some of them mostly air and fire are stronger then “spamming 1 like a dummy.” Water overload heals for a lot and removes a lot of conditions earth overload is a good soft cc tool AND a good stab. That an your getting protection and other effects when overloading.

No, that’s not what he is saying at all and it’s not even the point.

Of course, overloads do something while channeling. Tornado does stuff while transformed.

The problem is while you are “doing something” you don’t have access to your defensive abilities and the animation both from overload and tornado makes you a huge target which any experienced PvPer is going to immediately target.

This is why no one runs Tornado except in very specific situations, because even with stability and the ability to exit the transformation, you get focused so hard that you are forced to bail to go defensive and heal and that negates the value of using the ability in the first place.

I can count the number of times I have ridden out a Tornado transformation in PvP to it’s expiration without having to bail on one hand.

The rewards from these kind of mechanics have to pretty much straight out one shot somebody like Rampage does to justify using it. I didn’t play during BW3, but based on the feedback, overloads still aren’t there yet.

Jski.6180:

So are you saying overloads do nothing when your channeling them? They do and some of them mostly air and fire are stronger then “spamming 1 like a dummy.” Water overload heals for a lot and removes a lot of conditions earth overload is a good soft cc tool AND a good stab. That an your getting protection and other effects when overloading.

I don’t think he’s saying they do nothing. I think he’s saying that using them paints a target on your back. Sure, you gain a bit of protection, but even with that and your stability, you can’t use any other defensive tools. No dodgeing, healing, condi cleansing, etc. And of course you’re locked out of your attunement if you switch out, making water and earth riskier to use.

Edit – Ninja’d.

MadRabbit.3179:

Jski.6180:

So are you saying overloads do nothing when your channeling them? They do and some of them mostly air and fire are stronger then “spamming 1 like a dummy.” Water overload heals for a lot and removes a lot of conditions earth overload is a good soft cc tool AND a good stab. That an your getting protection and other effects when overloading.

No, that’s not what he is saying at all and it’s not even the point.

Of course, overloads do something while channeling. Tornado does stuff while transformed.

The problem is while you are “doing something” you don’t have access to your defensive abilities and the animation both from overload and tornado makes you a huge target which any experienced PvPer is going to immediately target.

This is why no one runs Tornado except in very specific situations, because even with stability and the ability to exit the transformation, you get focused so hard that you are forced to bail to go defensive and heal and that negates the value of using the ability in the first place.

I can count the number of times I have ridden out a Tornado transformation in PvP to it’s expiration without having to bail on one hand.

You can still use your utility you just cant dodges. Tornado you can dodges but you cant use your utility. Its a give and take for effects. All the overloads at they stand in the last beta have a good use both on use during and finnish.

Jski.6180:

You can still use your utility you just cant dodges. Tornado you can dodges but you cant use your utility. Its a give and take for effects. All the overloads at they stand in the last beta have a good use both on use during and finnish.

I won’t pick on you so much if you won’t leave out like half of the factual information in an attempt to make your supporting argument seem stronger than it is.

It’s far from a give and take. Tornado grants stability on pulse, largely negating the need to use utility cantrips like Armor of Earth, only a couple of abilities in the game can completely cancel out the transformation, negating it entirely where as any CC effect can shut down the channel and using Tornado puts one elite on a long cooldown where as using an overload puts an entire attunement on long cooldown.

Getting your water overload completely shut down with a single knockback and getting locked out of your sustain for 20 seconds is a potentially unrecoverable, game-ending situation where as bailing early on Tornado is not.

MadRabbit.3179:

Jski.6180:

You can still use your utility you just cant dodges. Tornado you can dodges but you cant use your utility. Its a give and take for effects. All the overloads at they stand in the last beta have a good use both on use during and finnish.

I won’t pick on you so much if you won’t leave out like half of the factual information in an attempt to make your supporting argument seem stronger than it is.

It’s far from a give and take. Tornado grants stability on pulse, largely negating the need to use utility cantrips like Armor of Earth, only a couple of abilities in the game can completely cancel out the transformation, negating it entirely where as any CC effect can shut down the channel and using Tornado puts one elite on a long cooldown where as using an overload puts an entire attunement on long cooldown.

Getting your water overload completely shut down with a single knockback and getting locked out of your sustain for 20 seconds is a potentially unrecoverable, game-ending situation where as bailing early on Tornado is not.

Nado has the worst of the stab for transformation your way better off getting 3 stacks every 3 sec then getting 1 stack ever 1 sec. That why its one of the worst in the game. On-top of having a long cd so overloads are nothing like transformation they are channles like meto or chrun or many other effects ele has (all though your able to move during them much like overload).

AoE is better for reactive use and the overloads them self (with stun brake) are also best reactive then passive other then earth overload who has 3 stack of stab build in. If your not getting an overload off its more the player of the tempest fault then the other side.

So yes its a fair thing and nothing new for the ele class they have many effects that have long cast times and long cd so a lot of risk for interruption before overloads.
Now something that may be an though is adding in interruption cd for when your effect at the start of overload is stopped but once the effect of the overloads cast start it should go into full cd if stopped.

Jski.6180:

Nado has the worst of the stab for transformation your way better off getting 3 stacks every 3 sec then getting 1 stack ever 1 sec. That why its one of the worst in the game. On-top of having a long cd so overloads are nothing like transformation they are channles like meto or chrun or many other effects ele has (all though your able to move during them much like overload).

AoE is better for reactive use and the overloads them self (with stun brake) are also best reactive then passive other then earth overload who has 3 stack of stab build in. If your not getting an overload off its more the player of the tempest fault then the other side.

So yes its a fair thing and nothing new for the ele class they have many effects that have long cast times and long cd so a lot of risk for interruption before overloads.
Now something that may be an though is adding in interruption cd for when your effect at the start of overload is stopped but once the effect of the overloads cast start it should go into full cd if stopped.

And all of this was total bullkitten.

MadRabbit.3179:

Jski.6180:

Nado has the worst of the stab for transformation your way better off getting 3 stacks every 3 sec then getting 1 stack ever 1 sec. That why its one of the worst in the game. On-top of having a long cd so overloads are nothing like transformation they are channles like meto or chrun or many other effects ele has (all though your able to move during them much like overload).

AoE is better for reactive use and the overloads them self (with stun brake) are also best reactive then passive other then earth overload who has 3 stack of stab build in. If your not getting an overload off its more the player of the tempest fault then the other side.

So yes its a fair thing and nothing new for the ele class they have many effects that have long cast times and long cd so a lot of risk for interruption before overloads.
Now something that may be an though is adding in interruption cd for when your effect at the start of overload is stopped but once the effect of the overloads cast start it should go into full cd if stopped.

And all of this was total bullkitten.

Why? You cant just say somthing with out backing it up i am giving you reason examples etc..
Overloads are a stun brake atm and are major tools to use reactive on-top of being able to have stab on use you should be able to get all most overloads if your “good.” If you get stopped its not the end of the world for the tempest and you will get something though in time. Ele has always hard long cast time spells most classes do have cast time on there effect but ele had some of the worst and as an ele player you should be use to these cast times. Its nice that you can move when casting overloads unlike the major cast time of chrn and metor that root you.

As for the topics of the first poster the overloads them self are very powerful and all fill a roll as needed. So channling them is worth it if your using the right one at the right time. Using fire overload when you need an heal is not going to save you nor is it the fault of the overloads its the fault of the one trying to use an dmg overload to stay alive. You have the tools but if you cant use them right or at the right times its not going to work out.

Added note:
If any thing you can now use overloads as pure counter hard cc and give up on the full cast but that up to the players. Players go down earth line for at best 2 stabs one being a lot worst then the other and less reactive and more pre-stuned. You can go down tempest line to get not 1 but 5 stun brakes from the line alone. So if you feel overloads are not worth using the full effect getting the use of the stun brake and stab alone is worth running tempest line well over then many other def aimed lines. (i think there a real chase that tempest is going to truly replaces ele as an class.)

They rushed an elite that barely works after a first one that didn’t work at all, with a minimal special effect that wasnt even changed.

The mechanics of tempest are sketchy:
Stand still overloading in melee range for minimal damage with 1 stack of stability while warriors Ac Slice you for 9k with a single hit or mesmers double shatter/moa you. Burn guard stacks 8k condi ticks in 1 second but overload takes 4 seconds to do 5k damage. It’s as if the devs of Tempest never played WvW or pvp.

Warhorn skills are just bad all around beside Heat Sync. I really see no reason to use it.

The only good things I see are the might upkeep from pre-buffing fire overload and the weakness application from shouts. The damage from air overload isn’t terrible either.

Truth is competitive gameplay in GW 2 is based on your ability to chain spike damage and Tempest offers none.

I try to stay positive, there is a lot of good stuff in the expansion, but beside getting better in BW3 Tempest feels like it’s 3 months away from being ready.

You brought the discussion so disconnected from the original post.

In the original post I only mentioned that when you use an overload in an organized PvP match that you are just putting in your neck a big focus me sign to whole other team.

In that situation you either have the option to complete the cast and die or cancel the cast and pay the 20s attunement lockout without getting any benefit of the overload.

None of the arguments that you bring like Ele has other big cast time abilities like churning earth is something similar, canceling a churning Earth will not cost me 20s Att lockout.

.
Canceling a water overload getting nothing and also a 20s water att lockout will kill me.

Well never overload anything other then earth in a tough teamfight unless you need the stunbreak (which is usually not available due to swaping). Overloads are in a nice spot for tactical use but trying to push them out when ready is often a bad move.
Ah and i guess bringing a guardian buddy might be very strong :-).

Bringing bunker guardian is good for every spec, men will only spec to tempest to use overloads so giving up so much, water or arcane, and not using overloads will be absurd.

If all they do is fiddle with a few numbers after 95% disapproval after the first BWE, I don’t think it’s likely they’ll change tempest much, if at all.

The solution I favour at this point is just don’t bother buying the expansion.

posthumecaver.6473:

In that situation you either have the option to complete the cast and die or cancel the cast and pay the 20s attunement lockout without getting any benefit of the overload.

None of the arguments that you bring like Ele has other big cast time abilities like churning earth is something similar, canceling a churning Earth will not cost me 20s Att lockout.

.
Canceling a water overload getting nothing and also a 20s water att lockout will kill me.

Your deduction is kind of a “duh” but then you’re cutting the story short. You say you paint a target on your head when you use an overload. Okay. Now what if you have allies? So if you’ve got someone on your team getting messed up and you overload, all the foe make the dumb move of shifting fire to you just because you used an overload? Even if your allies are alright and you use an overload and the enemy team turns to focus on you, does that predictable nature not have a possible reaction for your team?

So locking yourself out of an attunement for 20sec is tough. . . But overloads don’t do that, your choice to swap does. Overloads can be seen as another button press, sure, but to me you can use them if you’re deficient in something or to get more of the same off quickly for a price. Like, you’re getting pressured and you need healing. . . Swap to water and heal up. . . But if you still need more healing or condi removal NOW and you’re all out of heals, overload is an option that might save you or an ally. The point isn’t that you’re locked out of water for 20sec but instead that you just might not have any other healing option because maybe you didn’t use the water line in your build our something.

But it’s not black and white. Your conclusion ignores too many variables. Not disagreeing with you but I don’t think things are as simple as you make it out to be.

I have no problems being targeted. My buddy kills if unatended :-).
Sometimes i open a fight with air overload. During a fight i tend to use earth overlaod once. Fire only very situational. (unatended and packed fight e.g. WvW camp clearing). Water no real use due to 5s wait time. I don´t camp water its a 1s through as air usually is too.

You are too unfamiliar with Ele play style I guess, if you have water line, every time you came to water attunement you will get 2k healing, so in ideal rotation in every 10 s you get 2k healing, if you sit in water you kitten yourself, if you get constantly 20s attunement CDs you kitten yourself.

And tanking for your team argument, this can be true for a full bunker, but we are light armor class running around with cele amulet and thinking we are a bunker because of our high sustain, no sorry, we are not a good focus target, we drop dead in a second.

Thats right i tend to go down fast when 3+ target me. I don´t expect something else but i have options like obsidian flesh. And i wrote never stay in water long. Just 1-2 casts. Wateroverload is in a bad place due to game mechanic. Guess only PvE or maybe WvW zerg.

posthumecaver.6473:

You are too unfamiliar with Ele play style I guess, if you have water line, every time you came to water attunement you will get 2k healing, so in ideal rotation in every 10 s you get 2k healing, if you sit in water you kitten yourself, if you get constantly 20s attunement CDs you kitten yourself.

Yeah, that’s why I mentioned the point of NOT having water line. If you don’t, then you don’t get 2k heals from swapping into water.

Also, don’t try to stick too closely to Ele playstyle if you want to utilize Tempest.

I don"t plan to ise Tempest other than trolling d/d does everything that tempest does and better.

posthumecaver.6473:

I don"t plan to ise Tempest other than trolling d/d does everything that tempest does and better.

Well you could always play d/d water/arcane tempest with cantrips that uses overloads just situationally such as for a random stunbreak or whatnot. It will depend on the “finalized” tempest traitline at launch, but since they nerfed fire to not give you dramitcally faster might-stacking ramp up time, I think tempest could be competitve with fire, of course depending on the changes. Harmonious conduit can make up for the 10% damage modifier you lose by not going fire, the gale song proc is nice, elemental bastion gives you increased sustain as D/D that would make up for losing blinding ashes, and earthen proxy/latent stamina could be useful as bunker/support depending on how Karl changes them, as we know we plans to bring those two traits up a bit. You could even take imbued melodies with warhorn if you really want to be a boonspamming machine, that spams boons better than base D/D ele does. I also hope that they’ll rework the minor traits to give some useful incentive to pick tempest that isn’t overload centric.

The only overload you wouldn’t really want to ever use for obvious reasons is water overload since it breaks your defensive rotation, but air does a ton of damage with celestial stats. Fire overload brings a burst of might stacking. and earth overload’s lingering dust tornado can easily give your team perma-protection.

So yeah you’d trade some 1v1 potential by trading fire for tempest, but you’d also gain a lot more defensive/offensive/supportive tools in teamfights. Yeah base elementalist can generally do the same things, but when it comes to protection, auras, and AoE damage, tempest honestly has the tools to do it better.

posthumecaver.6473:

I don"t plan to ise Tempest other than trolling d/d does everything that tempest does and better.

D/D ele is all but dead in 2/3 formats of the game and once tempest d/d starts to make it into spvp teams you will find it comply over taking d/d ele placse. You can play tempest in wvw as staff its a bit harder but getting 4 stun brakes and a nice set of stab makes staff tempest very hard to kill in wvw.