Guild Wars 2

So they fixed a few things, the fact of the matter is that we still do sub par damage for how squishy we are. I took my elementalist off the shelf lastnight for WvW. His build is 10/30/0/0/30 with full exotics and 114% crit damage. I also stack might with combos why I do my rotation. Anyway, I RTL into a zerg, updraft, burning speed, dodge, ring of fire, earth quake, dodge, churning earth, earth spike, and then mist form out. I goto review my combat log to see damages…. My 80 thief with a similiar might stacking build does more AOE damage by spamming cluster bomb….

I dunno what to tell you man, I can beat nearly anyone 1v1 in WvW with my D/D Ele…even other level 80’s.

I don’t really care how much raw damage I do as compared to a thief…the fact is that I will likely beat that thief with my Ele, because unlike the thief I can heal to full multiple times in one fight, have a lot more CC, am NOT squishy (unlike what you seem to think), and have escape skills on par with the thief.

All that matters in the end is (queue Charlie Sheen) winning. Once I start feeling like I can’t beat other classes, I might complain. But for now, I feel pretty freaking powerful. I NEVER feel like I don’t have a chance in a fight. Even if I lose, I felt like I could have won, had I done something differently.

But by all means, keep complaining, maybe they will buff us again.

Yes, with the right build you can kick butt. However, out lasting your enemy and out damaging your enemy are two different things. IMO eles should be top of the damage tree and not forced to outlast the other classes by pecking away at their health until they die.

Also, thiefs have a trait that allows them to heal while stealthed. It’s pretty OP if you’re specced into shadow arts.

Looks fine to me…

same in tournys…

and in scrims …

and in pve…

http://imageshack.us/a/img547/184/gw179.jpg

obvious l2p issue…

You do realize that, unless you have some serious Vit/Toughness gear, you have no points traited into survivability, right? Of course you’re going to be squishy if you don’t trait/gear into survivability. I run Fire/Earth, with some points in water, and I do just fine. Elementalist is a lightly armored class, so you can’t expect them to have as much defense as say, a thief, because light armor gives less defense than medium armor. Elementalist also has a lot more available utility than thieves, such as vulnerability stacking in Water attunement with Daggers, so they probably aren’t going to dish out as high of a DPS as other classes.

I’m a tanky build, but I still feel like I do really good damage. My initial Air→Fire burst can normally get a DPS specced 80 down to under half health, and might even kill sub-80’s outright…which really isn’t bad at all.

I mean, you don’t do hits for 11.5K damage like a pre-patch thief could. But if you connect with churning earth with fury and a good amount of might stacks, that can be like 4K damage direct, and probably another 4K or so over time to an entire area of people…really not bad at all. And mind you, this is with a tanky build.

Evie.1758:

Looks fine to me…

same in tournys…

and in scrims …

and in pve…

http://imageshack.us/a/img547/184/gw179.jpg

obvious l2p issue…

Congrats, SPvP and WvW not the same, L2R

Rhubarb.9086:

You do realize that, unless you have some serious Vit/Toughness gear, you have no points traited into survivability, right? Of course you’re going to be squishy if you don’t trait/gear into survivability. I run Fire/Earth, with some points in water, and I do just fine. Elementalist is a lightly armored class, so you can’t expect them to have as much defense as say, a thief, because light armor gives less defense than medium armor. Elementalist also has a lot more available utility than thieves, such as vulnerability stacking in Water attunement with Daggers, so they probably aren’t going to dish out as high of a DPS as other classes.

that’s my arguement, Elementalists don’t do the damage for how squishy they are.

If you were paying attention to devs, they never promised anything this patch. I know that rangers are getting some help next week as to whether the elementalist are, well we will just have to find out then as well.

Eicherjw.3926:

Rhubarb.9086:

You do realize that, unless you have some serious Vit/Toughness gear, you have no points traited into survivability, right? Of course you’re going to be squishy if you don’t trait/gear into survivability. I run Fire/Earth, with some points in water, and I do just fine. Elementalist is a lightly armored class, so you can’t expect them to have as much defense as say, a thief, because light armor gives less defense than medium armor. Elementalist also has a lot more available utility than thieves, such as vulnerability stacking in Water attunement with Daggers, so they probably aren’t going to dish out as high of a DPS as other classes.

that’s my arguement, Elementalists don’t do the damage for how squishy they are.

Every thief I have fought in WvW has been like paper mache…they go down REAL fast if you can hit them. Most thieves depend on stealth to be their defense.

I, on the other hand, can survive 1v3 for a good amount of time…I don’t really think that is squishy. I mean, I’m not a Guardian, but I am far from squishy. It’s all in how you spec. And remember, dead Elementalists do no damage, so I think it’s very advisable to put at least a respectable amount of points/gear in defense.

Creslin.1758:

Eicherjw.3926:

Rhubarb.9086:

You do realize that, unless you have some serious Vit/Toughness gear, you have no points traited into survivability, right? Of course you’re going to be squishy if you don’t trait/gear into survivability. I run Fire/Earth, with some points in water, and I do just fine. Elementalist is a lightly armored class, so you can’t expect them to have as much defense as say, a thief, because light armor gives less defense than medium armor. Elementalist also has a lot more available utility than thieves, such as vulnerability stacking in Water attunement with Daggers, so they probably aren’t going to dish out as high of a DPS as other classes.

that’s my arguement, Elementalists don’t do the damage for how squishy they are.

Every thief I have fought in WvW has been like paper mache…they go down REAL fast if you can hit them. Most thieves depend on stealth to be their defense.

I, on the other hand, can survive 1v3 for a good amount of time…I don’t really think that is squishy. I mean, I’m not a Guardian, but I am far from squishy. It’s all in how you spec. And remember, dead Elementalists do no damage, so I think it’s very advisable to put at least a respectable amount of points/gear in defense.

I’ve only ran into 1 elementalist that handed my thief his kitten The guy had full vit/tough pvp gear and was 0/0/30/10/30. Other than that guy, every ele since has been badge food. Thieves though, can spec glass cannon with great DPS results. elementalists cant.

WvW is pve… its kitten… its not even up for discussion or balancing.

Anyone that played Ele for 300+ tournys will facewreck with optimized equip atleast 10+ exotic geared scrubs like they were geared in starter set.

90% of the players in WvW dont have a kitten clue how to play their class in a pvp setting.

God I hate the attitude of SPvPers…

Congrats, you like BGs. I like roam ganking in wide open maps.

Balancing is an ongoing delicate process, not an instantaneous thing. I’m glad we got anything at all considering this halloween event. Our downed state got a huge buff, some of our skills became more useful, and a few bugs got fixed. We will get more in time.

Also, I hope you realize that if you could sprint in and crush a zerg, you would be waaay OP. Right?

Eicherjw.3926:

Rhubarb.9086:

You do realize that, unless you have some serious Vit/Toughness gear, you have no points traited into survivability, right? Of course you’re going to be squishy if you don’t trait/gear into survivability. I run Fire/Earth, with some points in water, and I do just fine. Elementalist is a lightly armored class, so you can’t expect them to have as much defense as say, a thief, because light armor gives less defense than medium armor. Elementalist also has a lot more available utility than thieves, such as vulnerability stacking in Water attunement with Daggers, so they probably aren’t going to dish out as high of a DPS as other classes.

that’s my arguement, Elementalists don’t do the damage for how squishy they are.

I don’t think you got the point of my argument: The base elementalist is squishier than base other classes, but:

#1: You can mitigate that by not going full glass cannon. There, damage/squishy ratio rectified.

#2, Elementalist does a lot of things other classes can’t do. They don’t have to, and shouldn’t be a spike mage. They do a lot of things with conditions and boons that other classes can’t. That doesn’t meant that you can’t get decent damage out of them, but I wouldn’t expect to get the MOST damage out them. Depending on your build they can heal, or go invulnerable, run away really fast, and a lot of other things that other classes can’t do, at least as easily. I don’t think I’ve seen an closer/escape that’s quite as fast as Ride the Lightning, for instance.

^I know, our combos are also sweet aswell. We can stack massive amount of boons with self started combos. gyser + arcana wave = awesome AOE heals.

Evie.1758:

WvW is pve… its kitten… its not even up for discussion or balancing.

Anyone that played Ele for 300+ tournys will facewreck with optimized equip atleast 10+ exotic geared scrubs like they were geared in starter set.

90% of the players in WvW dont have a kitten clue how to play their class in a pvp setting.

Erm…fighting someone in an open field or fighting them in a battleground…pretty much the same thing. I don’t do sPvP much, but when I do, I drink Dos Equis…I mean, I do just as well as I do in WvW.

In fact…in a WvW skirmish, you are ONLY interested in killing, you are not interested in keeping people out of a circle, or staying in a circle. So in a way it is more pure.

Creslin.1758:

Evie.1758:

WvW is pve… its kitten… its not even up for discussion or balancing.

Anyone that played Ele for 300+ tournys will facewreck with optimized equip atleast 10+ exotic geared scrubs like they were geared in starter set.

90% of the players in WvW dont have a kitten clue how to play their class in a pvp setting.

Erm…fighting someone in an open field or fighting them in a battleground…pretty much the same thing. I don’t do sPvP much, but when I do, I drink Dos Equis…I mean, I do just as well as I do in WvW.

In fact…in a WvW skirmish, you are ONLY interested in killing, you are not interested in keeping people out of a circle, or staying in a circle. So in a way it is more pure.

You just opened pandora’s box….

inb4 SPvPer go apekitten

Actualy they promised to look into dagger mainhand and they sligtly buffed it.

^
Yep, the 3 sec cripple on ring of earth is actually a really big deal.

I may get shouted at for going off topic while not even flaming someone … but do weapon swap sigils no longer work with attunements? Can’t seem to get my Battle one to work anymore.

Nuhj.8372:

I may get shouted at for going off topic while not even flaming someone … but do weapon swap sigils no longer work with attunements? Can’t seem to get my Battle one to work anymore.

I just got one last night and it works fine for me. Just remember you have to be in combat for it to work and I believe it has a short cooldown as well (8 seconds or something like that?)

Creslin.1758:

Evie.1758:

WvW is pve… its kitten… its not even up for discussion or balancing.

Anyone that played Ele for 300+ tournys will facewreck with optimized equip atleast 10+ exotic geared scrubs like they were geared in starter set.

90% of the players in WvW dont have a kitten clue how to play their class in a pvp setting.

Erm…fighting someone in an open field or fighting them in a battleground…pretty much the same thing. I don’t do sPvP much, but when I do, I drink Dos Equis…I mean, I do just as well as I do in WvW.

In fact…in a WvW skirmish, you are ONLY interested in killing, you are not interested in keeping people out of a circle, or staying in a circle. So in a way it is more pure.

Plus, the variety and unpredictability of WvW is more fun – so many people doing so many different things on such a huge map. In sPvP you have a tiny map with a small amount of people doing very predictable and repetitive things. They both require skill, but sPvP gets old after a while and you need something else to do.

Eicherjw.3926:

that’s my arguement, Elementalists don’t do the damage for how squishy they are.

^ this.

Although I am pretty satisfied that Devs started to tweak Elementalist, I will never cease to underline that true balance means:

“I can be oneshotted? fine, then I must be able to oneshot…”

Also, if the Holy Trinity is TRULY gone, then the word “support class” should be banned for good.

Damage: we lack the “punch” in sheer numbers. Devs want us to perform the madness dance with 750+ keys to remember to get that? it’s ok, but at least reward us with an HUGE explosion which truly nukes foes.

Elementalist is fun, very fun, it gives a fast paced experience in almost every moment, but it is not rewarding

I don’t think all these posts are generalized whining, I’ve read posts of good players stating the same, although underlining how the class is still fun to play and far far away from being “broken”.

TL;DR: Elementalist class is fun and not broken, but is not rewarding.

I find the challenge very rewarding.

Just sayin’

Xriah.5743:

I find the challenge very rewarding.

Just sayin’

it’s good
but many others don’t, so something must be done; in the worst scenario, you may always willingly choose to handicap your character somehow, still be a winner, and boast about it.
You could still have -and enjoy- your challenge, and those who are seeking something more empirical than philosophical would get their share = everyone win

They could always go play thief or something, and they’re probably going to have to. If they buff up the Ele so he’s more powerful than the other classes just because he’s more difficult, that’s an imbalance. I can see ANet helping the Ele a little more, but not to the extent everyone seems to want.

Grevender.9235:

Eicherjw.3926:

that’s my arguement, Elementalists don’t do the damage for how squishy they are.

^ this.

Although I am pretty satisfied that Devs started to tweak Elementalist, I will never cease to underline that true balance means:

“I can be oneshotted? fine, then I must be able to oneshot…”

Also, if the Holy Trinity is TRULY gone, then the word “support class” should be banned for good.

Damage: we lack the “punch” in sheer numbers. Devs want us to perform the madness dance with 750+ keys to remember to get that? it’s ok, but at least reward us with an HUGE explosion which truly nukes foes.

Elementalist is fun, very fun, it gives a fast paced experience in almost every moment, but it is not rewarding

I don’t think all these posts are generalized whining, I’ve read posts of good players stating the same, although underlining how the class is still fun to play and far far away from being “broken”.

TL;DR: Elementalist class is fun and not broken, but is not rewarding.

+1 This. It’s not really the “squishy” part that I mind. I knew rolling my toon that he would wear light armor, ergo, would take more damage and probably have less HP. But as others have pointed out, the Elementalist class does not fulfill it’s description provided by ANet themselves “What they lack in physical toughness, they make up in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage in a single attack.”

This latest patch that was a buff to d/d and the down state was a MAJOR step in the right direction. I think Staff needs to be looked at some point down the road.

The problem you people are forgetting is in the very description of the Elementalist class

“What they lack in physical toughness, they make up in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage in a single attack.”

Loosifah.4739:

The problem you people are forgetting is in the very description of the Elementalist class

“What they lack in physical toughness, they make up in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage in a single attack.”

Churning Earth? Definitely does massive damage in one attack.

All in all though, I will agree that the description is misleading. The versatility part is dead-on, but we are not an “assassin” class like thief that does 8000 damage with one hit.

IMO, they should just change the description, problem solved!

Ele is fine. Seems to me is just l2p issues. Sure thieves can burst 15k on a single target, then stealth and wait 30+second to do it again. Ele can maintain pressure in those 30 seconds, with chain knockdowns – combo fields – healing – DoT bleed/burning – heck fire grab crits for 4-5k for me. It’s different playstyles.

I like my Ele a lot and do well with her, but I do think we need a few changes to be up to par with other classes as well as living up to the description and intention of our class.

Sidenote – anyone notice that the OP’s topic title didn’t get censored in the HTML address? It actually says G i m p instead of kitten lol.

Creslin.1758:

Loosifah.4739:

The problem you people are forgetting is in the very description of the Elementalist class

“What they lack in physical toughness, they make up in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage in a single attack.”

Churning Earth? Definitely does massive damage in one attack.

All in all though, I will agree that the description is misleading. The versatility part is dead-on, but we are not an “assassin” class like thief that does 8000 damage with one hit.

IMO, they should just change the description, problem solved!

S/D and D/D fire/ air attunements are heavily driven on bursting and spiking. I’d say we actually are close to a “magical thief” class if we specc for it, it just happens that this playstyle, which does exist for us, has weak trait support. Even the devs agree that our “spike builds are rough”. Let’s wait for some changes in this department, and we’ll probably start getting burst elementalists who use their support to survive while bursting.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Creslin.1758:

Loosifah.4739:

The problem you people are forgetting is in the very description of the Elementalist class

“What they lack in physical toughness, they make up in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage in a single attack.”

Churning Earth? Definitely does massive damage in one attack.

All in all though, I will agree that the description is misleading. The versatility part is dead-on, but we are not an “assassin” class like thief that does 8000 damage with one hit.

IMO, they should just change the description, problem solved!

S/D and D/D fire/ air attunements are heavily driven on bursting and spiking. I’d say we actually are close to a “magical thief” class if we specc for it, it just happens that this playstyle, which does exist for us, has weak trait support. Even the devs agree that our “spike builds are rough”. Let’s wait for some changes in this department, and we’ll probably start getting burst elementalists who use their support to survive while bursting.

Hey, I would be more than happy if ANet made spike builds viable, that would be wonderful.

For now though, I’m just sticking with my tanky build.

I’m hoping that we get defense through offense options in the future, or something that allows us to burst without rupting ourselves (too much). You know, like the Shocking Aura trait. Traits that allows us to survive while we’re bursting. Too strong? I don’t think so, considering our burst damage is easy to avoid, takes time to set up, and is generally weaker than thieves burst damage, and we rely on utilities to burst too. We do need some sort of trait defense while bursting, or else we’ll die before our dragon’s tooth even hits the ground (and misses :P).

I agree 100% with the original poster- Ele still needs major work. Raw DPS should be much higher when specced full glass cannon. Its unbalanced – end of story.

Normally, I would expect that if you have to make the sacfrifice to wear light armour, the trade off would be higher dps output.

dagger/dagger spec got some love, and the downstate was greatly improved, but I still think we should be able to outdps a theif when specced for full dps.

noobdestroyer.4271:

I agree 100% with the original poster- Ele still needs major work. Raw DPS should be much higher when specced full glass cannon. Its unbalanced – end of story.

Normally, I would expect that if you have to make the sacfrifice to wear light armour, the trade off would be higher dps output.

dagger/dagger spec got some love, and the downstate was greatly improved, but I still think we should be able to outdps a theif when specced for full dps.

TBH, I don’t think we should ever be able to outDPS a thief.

A thief specced for pure DPS, really can’t do that much other than DPS and escape. An elementalist ALWAYS has their four attunements available regardless of spec, and will always have a lot of utiltiy and CC no matter what.

Like it or not, Ele is essentially a “true” hybrid class, in that it is ALWAYS a hybrid no matter what its spec is. Because of this, we should never be able to do DPS better than a class that has a spec wholly devoted to only DPS…and happens to be melee.

I think some of the L2P posters above, are missing the OP’s point or maybe need to L2Read

Yes there a viable specs for Ele (mostly around survival). His comment is that unlike some other classes if you choose to build full glass cannon – our cannon:glass ratio is sub par relative to other classes (ie more glass and less cannon). I have fun being more tanky myself – but I’m all for more viable builds/specs as choice is good.

Even an Elementalist going full glass cannon has support/utility like stun, blind, cripple, freeze, knockdown, knockback and such, and unlike e.g. a Thief always 300+ range; this would make the Elementalist OP if they had a similar damage to one-dimensional glass cannon professions.

Eles can only be given a comparable damage if they would lose their utility and their range advantage; the Conjure Weapon skills could possible provide that.

Aether McLoud.1975:

Stop talking kitten desertrose. No ele has all those things in the same build. If you argue like that (like a kitten 5 year old dropped on its head 10 times a day) you’d also have to argue that thieves have 5 6 seconds stealth at the same time, can give the whole team 4 different poisons, have a spammable aoe blind, backstab, heartseeker, pistolwhip, etc.

Well a Staff Ele would have all those things simply in their weapon skills. But I don’t think Staff Ele’s specced for damage really do “cannon” worthy damage lol and they’re missing out on the Staff’s strengths anyway speccing that way.

Heh actually elementals need to get to close range a lot more than my mesmer. And unlike my mesmer, doesnt teleport me while immobilizing the target, and cant become immune while doing triple the damage. All in 1 combo which takes 3 button presses.
She is also blessed with 5k more health for some reason. The utility skills comparable to cantrips have about a third of the cooldown, and each one summons illusions which can be converted into both damage or survivability.

The base damage to survive ratio is too far off in eles case. A mesmer with a berserkers will be tons more tanky than an ele with one. Classes with stealths or 100% evades and immunities NEEDS to be taken into account more when balancing dmg/hp values. Ele’s need better base survive so they are more effective with dmg amulets and some classes simply need their dmg reduced.

@Aeuther McLoud

With Evasive Arcana, D/D has ALL of those things…

Stun -> Shocking Aura
Knockdown -> Earthquake
Blind -> Evasive arcana while in Air
Freeze (assuming he means Chill) -> Frost Aura, Ice shards (or whatever it’s called)
Cripple -> Ring of Earth, Churning earth
Knockback -> Updraft

Oh, and they also have weakness with air 2 as well. And TONS of AoE might if they know how to use their finishers and fields.

Ele’s are fine now after patch, a very decent patch I got almost everything I wanted.

LOL Staff ele. Does no damage.

Loosifah.4739:

The problem you people are forgetting is in the very description of the Elementalist class

“What they lack in physical toughness, they make up in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage in a single attack.”

yep, give us this massive damage and it’s deal

it may be my imagination but it seems to me that i do a lot better with my ele when i have room to maneuver and use terrain.

I will say that the L2P of the ele is an issue in itself.
my experience is that the class has an invisible skill curve. Meaning i can not tell that i am getting better until i am better.
There is so much to master in the ele. Its easy to to see it as impossible and correct to say that all that work gets me about the same ability as any other class played well.

No, ele still needs work, particularly staff single target, lifting the aoe cap from 5 to 10, and tweaking of a few skills: dragon’s tooth should easier to land (homing or ground target), earthquake should be instant cast, fire shield should be worth casting, burning speed should be a leap finisher.

I think d/d is in reasonable shape, but overall I think ele damage doesn’t scale as well as it should with spec, which is of course why everyone specs tank builds.

I dont get it, why should we be top damage? we have a ton more ultity than other classes.

and d/d is so durable compared to alot of classes, due to having the best escape tools, since we have 3 slot skills free for stun/condition breakers and escapes.

what is there to whine about?

Staff does need work. Air spec staff is terrible. Earthquake takes waaaaay too long to build. That iceburg thingy takes forever to drop. There is a massive difference between Fire Staff effectiveness and the other three traits in that Fire skills are very far superior compared to the others. Earth in particular should complement Fire but it does not. I don’t think sweeping changes need to happen here but Earthquake needs a few seconds off its build time at least.

Do you mean Eruption, boozer? I think Eruption’s build up is excellent as it is, because it allows you to switch to fire and use combo fields for a blast finisher after casting Eruption. And Eruption itself is strong enough and is in an attunement full of movement control.

I do think, however, that Eruption having a high build up and a (semi-)high casting time is redudant. The skill should be faster to cast.