Guild Wars 2

Downed state plays a huge role in sPVP, both hotjoin and tournaments. Yet elementalists are barred from playing with the others because we are the single class that cannot interrupt stomps.

There was already talk of changing downed state “sometime”. But when is this sometime. And while I’m at it why oh why don’t you switch our #2 and #3 downed state skills until you get to really fix downed state? Downed state is THE biggest detriment of elementalists in pvp. How this isn’t a higher priority issue is beyond me…

Pretty sure swapping 2 and 3 IS the intended fix to downed state. Regardless, I imagine they want time to test and tweak changes to abilities before hotfixing them into the live client. Which is just good policy, imo.

Our #2 skill simply does not work effectively most of the time, even if it were to be swapped. I would prefer if our auto-attack was a channelled skill that caused cripple at its first second (and vulnerability for the remaining duration), with our #2 being a faster version of Vapor Form (Vapor is slower than Mist Form). Then the earth skill, being #3, could have a more explosive AoE immobilize effect if the elementalist lasts that long.

Possibly in about 24 hours it hopefully will be fixed… Big Halloween patch coming!

We know there are changes coming to our downed state and MH daggers, but at the time they were stated, it was said that we would have to still wait a while. That was, what, two weeks ago? I’m hoping we’ll get them, or some of them, in this update. Or if not, I hope we get some very relevant bug fixes, for a change.

Given that the PvP blog was slated for ‘soon’, and wasn’t released until 4 weeks after it’s announcement of ‘soon’, I would extrapolate that ‘a while’ will probably translate into ‘4 months’.

:p

Get a friend to interrupt stomp. If we get to #3, as I often do, its almost a rez.

Problem is paid tournaments are coming this week and ele still has a non-working downed state. That’s why I think an emergency fix is needed until the “real” fix is ready to go live.

Swapping 2 and 3 would be a very bad idea, even for a temporary fix.

I’d rather they just get rid of every classes downed skills and give everyone:

1) Throw rock – does like, 250-300 damage or something.
2) Heal up – performs as currently.
3) Suicide button – starts on a 10-12s cooldown.

If you’re downed, your best option is that an ally comes and revives you. Not that you can throw some stupid bouncing crippling daggers that hit for 800-1k damage. Not that you can teleport around to delay a stomp. Not that you can root someone or go into mistform if it comes up in time. You lay there contributing little and hoping a team mate can bring you back into the fight, or, if there’s no hope, you can commit suicide after a little while to prevent teams just leaving you outside a point and interrupting your heal so you take ages to bleed out.

The downed system does not reward skillful play against the odds. Oh cool, I just downed one guy in a 1v2, but I can’t finish him because the time I spend stomping will give the other guy a ton of free damage on me, and I can’t not finish him because he’s slamming me for 1k damage every second while his, still alive, team mate wails on me, so they can eventually kill me and rally. If I’m good enough to take on 2 people and kill one of them, I shouldn’t be punished by having little chance of finishing them or surviving the downed players attacks long enough to kill his partner.

Pretty sure swapping 2 and 3 IS the intended fix to downed state.

I doubt it…It’d make the elementalist downed state OP because there would be no way to secure a stomp on us.

Suicide button at 12-12 seconds seem extremely lengthy.
Considering once an Ele` is downed it`ss generally dead in a second or three, you`d get as much chance to use it now as you do Mist/Vapor form.

The idea is not that you use it to prevent people stomping you.

It’s there solely to stop people from leaving you downed on 50% hp outside a point, causing you to lose 20seconds or more while you bleed out. If it didn’t start with a reasonably long cd, people would just use it as the default suicide button as soon as it came up. The enemy should have a chance to down you, and your team mates should have a chance to revive/rally you. If the cd is too short that entire aspect of the game is removed.

Again, it is suggested solely to slightly reduce the impact of a team leaving you to bleed out over 45seconds.

FreeLanceR.5149:

Pretty sure swapping 2 and 3 IS the intended fix to downed state.

I doubt it…It’d make the elementalist downed state OP because there would be no way to secure a stomp on us.

It wouldn’t be any better than mesmers or thieves teleports/stealths in downed state. And before you state that vapor form heals you, it also gives you a downed debuff, after 3 (or 4?) times it instantly kills you. Also it has a cooldown after use. The only change would be that it would be usable against the first stomp, after that they could easily stomp you again without you having vapor vorm available. Just like all the knockbacks or the mesmer stealth.

Also @the people saying suicice against bleeding out… why would you not bandage yourself when noone hits you?

Because a smart team will interrupt your heal with a small amount of damage? Thereby preventing you from further healing until it comes off cooldown again, and forcing you to wait for the bleed out. Trying to heal up against a team doing that is actually the worst thing you can do, since you’re actively helping them achieve their goal of keeping your contribution to the overall game at a minimum if you’re spending a long time downed.

If they are still around damaging you you can also damage them. Also you can vaporform away to heal up, and if they follow you they aren’t deffing their point meaning your team can go in for the capture.

…

I don’t think you understand how this works.

They wipe you at a point. You aren’t on the point (preventing it from ticking points), you’re in some corner or other out of the way. They don’t have to stand beside you to stop you from healing yourself back up, they just have to check in on you every 5-10s to interrupt any ongoing heal and knock you back down to 50% health if you’re above it. At this point you are stuck in limbo until one of a few things happen.

1) A team mate is able to come and res you manually. This is good unless said team mate will be outnumbered and die in the process of trying to res you. It’s also reliant on you having a team mate nearby who can spend time away from whatever other task he needs to do so that he can get you back up, which isn’t necesarily going to be an option if your team is 4vs5 because you’re downed and useless.

2) You wait to bleed out. The second best option if they won’t finish you. It’s much quicker than healing a bit, getting interrupted and knocked back down some health, then healing a bit more until the next time you get interrupted and knocked down some health, and so on. This process is still takes much longer than if they finished you and let you respawn less than 20 seconds later.

3) Your team brings the fight to them in enough numbers that they can afford to dedicate one player to ressing you while they fight off whatever amount of people are on the point. This is a reasonable option assuming they aren’t smart enough to finish you once they see major incoming. It also isn’t the default option because if your team brings 3 guys to try and get you up and cap the point, you have only 1 guy elsewhere on the map (since you’re downed, afterall), and that may or may not leave more of their team to overwhelm you somewhere else.

Either way, there are tactical reasons to let someone bleed out, and it’s especially viable if they’re stupid enough to try and heal up, thereby costing themselves more time in the long run since they will never be allowed to self-res. As long as you keep someone lying on the floor instead of ressing at the next 20s res point you’re at an advantage, because the paltry amount of damage you’re doing in a downed state while solo isn’t going to have any serious impact on a guy who’s just standing on a point bunkering while the rest of his team makes a mess of your, now one man down, team.

Then simply vapor form back onto the point and damage them. It seems you are the one who doesn’t understand how this works.

Maybe you should read my proposed changes again and see if you can find Vapour Form in that list of 3 options I think players should have while downed, since that’s where the ‘10-12 second cd suicide button’ aspect of the discussion originated.

Likewise, not every class has vapour form. Similarly, quite a few classes have knockbacks, which, y’know, will move you back off that point again. But if you think it’s a better idea to prolong the time between when you go down, and when you res at your spawnpoint, please do feel free to continue letting smart teams play 5v4 against your team.

You can also use that tactic against others. It’s not exclusive to the other team you know.

Also could you stop derailing a thread about fixing ele downed state with your personal vendetta?

…

Ele downed state is worse than most classes. Your suggestion does not address the problem, which is downed states in general, rather than simply the Ele downed state. So what? They buff the Ele downed state and then some other class has the worst one? Suddenly Necro downed state is the worst, so better buff it. Oh, and Ranger downed state would then be a bit pants, so I guess we buff it next.

Patching one of the problems without looking at why it’s a problem (apart from the obvious reasons I guess) is not a solution. It’s a bandaid to placate one section of the playerbase without actually doing anything to solve the real issue, which is the relative power balance of downed states in general, and how they greatly affect play surrounding it, both to punish players who play well, and to skew the dynamic of combat in favour of certain parties with vastly superior toolsets while downed.

I posted my idea as a solution to the actual problem. You posted your idea with the implication that if they just did ‘x’, then everything would be ok, when that, in fact, is not the case.

There’s a huge difference between good and worse downed states, and not working ones (i.e. ele downed state).

Every one besides ele can interrupt at least 1 stomp. Sure guardians can AOE interrupt, thieves can interrupt 2 and mesmers are a PITA. But everyone can interrupt at least the first stomp, maybe buying some time for a teammate to arrive and rez or whatever.

Ele however cannot interrupt. And that is a fatal flaw. You simply cannot compare ele downed state to any other. You can compare the other 7 and there are better ones and worse ones yes, but ele downed state plays in another league. In the “don’t even bother” league.

And that’s why ele downed state needs an emergency fix before paid tournaments go live.

thief can turn invisible and teleport away
mezmer can make a clone of himself that hits pretty hard and teleport away leaving a body double.
warrior can knock you down AND get back up and kill you + spike

meanwhile we get a root that dosent root anyone til they are already in spike range.