Guild Wars 2

Yesterda I was checkin anet answer in our forum. I go down from page to page and saw jus 1 answer by them. I also visit other prof forum because i play all classes except of brainless warrior. So my question is…why aren’t elementalist considered as the other classes? Are we supposed only to support in wvw zerg?

I just went through the first 5 pages of every profession forum.

Most of them don’t even have 1 red answer, some have 1 like us, and engi has 2.

You’re just complaining for the sake of complaining

actually … why not both ? ))

like this : “we are all insane , and do not know how to play our elementalists and there is nothing they can do about and changes will come but it will take time”

Gokil.2543:

I just went through the first 5 pages of every profession forum.

Most of them don’t even have 1 red answer, some have 1 like us, and engi has 2.

You’re just complaining for the sake of complaining

I still wish there was more activity by Devs as a whole. We had that string of responses for one day, and it felt good to get the communication out there..

Otherwise there’s a stifled feeling.

Arenanet should have hired Greg Street instead of Riot games. Then we would have ALL the communication.

Egret.9374:

Yesterda I was checkin anet answer in our forum. I go down from page to page and saw jus 1 answer by them. I also visit other prof forum because i play all classes except of brainless warrior. So my question is…why aren’t elementalist considered as the other classes? Are we supposed only to support in wvw zerg?

If you want answers you need the question. What would we even need a dev to say to us that many experience ele’s already know?

We could talk to them about RTL all day but there is plenty threads on that.

Tactu.4867:

i’d say …there are 2 possible answers :

1. we are all insane , and do not know how to play our elementalists — > which implies that the devs’s opinions are : these are a bunch of wieners, so no point in bothering answering to them.

This bit has more truth in it than you’d probably care to admit. A large part of it stems from the fact that players insist on playing the elementalist like another profession instead of playing to its greatest strength: versatility. How many of you truly change their fighting style based on their opponent, or even regardless of them? How many of the dps eles actively use their support? How many combos are setup properly?

ThiBash.5634:

Tactu.4867:

i’d say …there are 2 possible answers :

1. we are all insane , and do not know how to play our elementalists — > which implies that the devs’s opinions are : these are a bunch of wieners, so no point in bothering answering to them.

This bit has more truth in it than you’d probably care to admit. A large part of it stems from the fact that players insist on playing the elementalist like another profession instead of playing to its greatest strength: versatility. How many of you truly change their fighting style based on their opponent, or even regardless of them? How many of the dps eles actively use their support? How many combos are setup properly?

The crux of the problem is: We are NOT versatile. Engineers are.

We have to constantly cycle through elements to do damage and have skills to use so if someone needs a heal RIGHT NOW, well tough luck my water attunement is on cooldown. You get hammered by burst and really could use protection and stability? Well, tough luck, earth attunement is on cooldown because it needed it for the gap closer a few seconds earlier.

Engineers on the other hand are truly versatile. Not only can they build for whatever they want (they also have A LOT more viable utility choices than we have, and their elite is gamechanging) they have no cooldown on their weapon-swap mechanic meaning if they need a knockback right now they simply switch to flamethrower and use it. And if someone needs conditions cleared right now they simply switch to elixir gun and conditions away.

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

ThiBash.5634:

Tactu.4867:

i’d say …there are 2 possible answers :

1. we are all insane , and do not know how to play our elementalists — > which implies that the devs’s opinions are : these are a bunch of wieners, so no point in bothering answering to them.

This bit has more truth in it than you’d probably care to admit. A large part of it stems from the fact that players insist on playing the elementalist like another profession instead of playing to its greatest strength: versatility. How many of you truly change their fighting style based on their opponent, or even regardless of them? How many of the dps eles actively use their support? How many combos are setup properly?

The crux of the problem is: We are NOT versatile. Engineers are.

We have to constantly cycle through elements to do damage and have skills to use so if someone needs a heal RIGHT NOW, well tough luck my water attunement is on cooldown. You get hammered by burst and really could use protection and stability? Well, tough luck, earth attunement is on cooldown because it needed it for the gap closer a few seconds earlier.

Engineers on the other hand are truly versatile. Not only can they build for whatever they want (they also have A LOT more viable utility choices than we have, and their elite is gamechanging) they have no cooldown on their weapon-swap mechanic meaning if they need a knockback right now they simply switch to flamethrower and use it. And if someone needs conditions cleared right now they simply switch to elixir gun and conditions away.

Your posts shows exactly what I mean. Versatility for the elementalist is not being able to build the way you want. Versatility for the elementalist is changing your tactics during the battle. Glyphs and arcane skills are perfect examples of that: you can literally change your entire build by simply swapping attunements. What you are referring to is versatility in the making of builds, which is a different thing entirely.

ThiBash.5634:

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

ThiBash.5634:

Tactu.4867:

i’d say …there are 2 possible answers :

1. we are all insane , and do not know how to play our elementalists — > which implies that the devs’s opinions are : these are a bunch of wieners, so no point in bothering answering to them.

This bit has more truth in it than you’d probably care to admit. A large part of it stems from the fact that players insist on playing the elementalist like another profession instead of playing to its greatest strength: versatility. How many of you truly change their fighting style based on their opponent, or even regardless of them? How many of the dps eles actively use their support? How many combos are setup properly?

The crux of the problem is: We are NOT versatile. Engineers are.

We have to constantly cycle through elements to do damage and have skills to use so if someone needs a heal RIGHT NOW, well tough luck my water attunement is on cooldown. You get hammered by burst and really could use protection and stability? Well, tough luck, earth attunement is on cooldown because it needed it for the gap closer a few seconds earlier.

Engineers on the other hand are truly versatile. Not only can they build for whatever they want (they also have A LOT more viable utility choices than we have, and their elite is gamechanging) they have no cooldown on their weapon-swap mechanic meaning if they need a knockback right now they simply switch to flamethrower and use it. And if someone needs conditions cleared right now they simply switch to elixir gun and conditions away.

Your posts shows exactly what I mean. Versatility for the elementalist is not being able to build the way you want. Versatility for the elementalist is changing your tactics during the battle. Glyphs and arcane skills are perfect examples of that: you can literally change your entire build by simply swapping attunements. What you are referring to is versatility in the making of builds, which is a different thing entirely.

No I am not refering to versatilty in builds. Sure glyphs are versatile but they aren’t viable so your point is pretty moot at least for pvp where eles need a lot of help.

You simply cannot change your tactic in fights by much as an ele because of attunement cooldowns and needing to use all 4 to do damage as I wrote before.

Glyphs would be versatile if they were balanced for once. GoEP is a trainwreck just like the rez glyph, lesser elementals are really lacking abilities and glyph of storms is only good in earth for the blind. Casting glyph of storms in any other attunement is a waste of a utility slot.

So again the theoretical versatilty of glyphs is put down by all of them being underpowered and/or overnerfed.

Arcane skills by themselves are the most boring skills ever in an MMO. They only get interesting and versatile with Elemental Surge, which again noone takes in pvp because it is up against Evasive Arcana which is just leaps and bounds better.

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

No I am not refering to versatilty in builds. Sure glyphs are versatile but they aren’t viable so your point is pretty moot at least for pvp where eles need a lot of help.

They are viable in PvP. I’ve been using them for months in both WvW and sPvP now.

You simply cannot change your tactic in fights by much as an ele because of attunement cooldowns and needing to use all 4 to do damage as I wrote before.

You can by changing the order in which you use them. Fire→Water-Earth does something completely different than Fire→Earth-Water. At least, it does for combos and evasive arcana purposes.

Glyphs would be versatile if they were balanced for once. GoEP is a trainwreck just like the rez glyph, lesser elementals are really lacking abilities and glyph of storms is only good in earth for the blind. Casting glyph of storms in any other attunement is a waste of a utility slot.

They have some issues, but GoEP isn’t a trainwreck. It’s just misunderstood. For some reasons people seem to think it’s a stunbreaker with a preparation effect. It’s not. It’s a preparation effect that you can also happen to use as a stunbreaker if you want to. It’s all about having options, and this glyph happens to have 5 instead of 4.

So again the theoretical versatilty of glyphs is put down by all of them being underpowered and/or overnerfed.

Or being misused.

Arcane skills by themselves are the most boring skills ever in an MMO. They only get interesting and versatile with Elemental Surge, which again noone takes in pvp because it is up against Evasive Arcana which is just leaps and bounds better.

Boring is irrelevant when it comes to balancing.

annndd, i think we have our answer..    z_z

My answers are bold.

ThiBash.5634:

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

No I am not refering to versatilty in builds. Sure glyphs are versatile but they aren’t viable so your point is pretty moot at least for pvp where eles need a lot of help.

They are viable in PvP. I’ve been using them for months in both WvW and sPvP now.

The heal glyph and elite glyph (just because there is nothing better) are viable in pvp, the utility ones are not.

You simply cannot change your tactic in fights by much as an ele because of attunement cooldowns and needing to use all 4 to do damage as I wrote before.

You can by changing the order in which you use them. Fire->Water-Earth does something completely different than Fire->Earth-Water. At least, it does for combos and evasive arcana purposes.

Glyphs would be versatile if they were balanced for once. GoEP is a trainwreck just like the rez glyph, lesser elementals are really lacking abilities and glyph of storms is only good in earth for the blind. Casting glyph of storms in any other attunement is a waste of a utility slot.

They have some issues, but GoEP isn’t a trainwreck. It’s just misunderstood. For some reasons people seem to think it’s a stunbreaker with a preparation effect. It’s not. It’s a preparation effect that you can also happen to use as a stunbreaker if you want to. It’s all about having options, and this glyph happens to have 5 instead of 4.

GoEP has too much tension which isn’t good design.

So again the theoretical versatilty of glyphs is put down by all of them being underpowered and/or overnerfed.

Or being misused.

Arcane skills by themselves are the most boring skills ever in an MMO. They only get interesting and versatile with Elemental Surge, which again noone takes in pvp because it is up against Evasive Arcana which is just leaps and bounds better.

Boring is irrelevant when it comes to balancing.

Boring is very relevant when it comes to game design

Anyone that thinks playing an ele is easy, should not play an ele. Roll an engie

Eles are very hard to play in WvW but if you master them, they are very fun.

Also you play an ele because you know it takes twice the skill and effort to take down an engie meaning you are twice the player

Fuzzion.2504:

Anyone that thinks playing an ele is easy, should not play an ele. Roll an engie

Eles are very hard to play in WvW but if you master them, they are very fun.

Also you play an ele because you know it takes twice the skill and effort to take down an engie meaning you are twice the player

Engies are easy to defeat and indeed if the player is good then the Ele is very powerful in WvW. Back on topic, the few times the dev post on each profession forum they always get attacked by users that let their emotions get the best of them, I wouldn’t expect any dev to keep trying on the forum.

LightningBlaze.4913:

Fuzzion.2504:

Anyone that thinks playing an ele is easy, should not play an ele. Roll an engie

Eles are very hard to play in WvW but if you master them, they are very fun.

Also you play an ele because you know it takes twice the skill and effort to take down an engie meaning you are twice the player

Engies are easy to defeat and indeed if the player is good then the Ele is very powerful in WvW. Back on topic, the few times the dev post on each profession forum they always get attacked by users that let their emotions get the best of them, I wouldn’t expect any dev to keep trying on the forum.

I can’t talk about WVW but in PVP there is pretty much no chance to kill a competent bunker-condi engi with automated response as an ele. You have a chance to overwhelm him with Fresh Air but then you’ll fold if he dodges and subsequently kills you.

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

My answers are bold.

The heal glyph and elite glyph (just because there is nothing better) are viable in pvp, the utility ones are not.

You’re half right, and I’m half right. Earlier today I took another look at Glyph of Storms (which I normally don’t use) and to be honest, ít’s much too weak. An aoe utility with such a recharge should at least match the damage of a single Lava Font. So agreed, that one needs fixing.

Glyph of Renewal has 3 issues that prevent it from being usable. The first is the casting time, which is much too high to make it practical. The second is the fact that because it only works on downed players and not defeated, the opertunities for its use are slim. The third is that you can risk getting cooldown even if you didn’t ress anyone (which is harsh at 120 recharge). The three combined are enough to not dedicate a skill slot to it. However, the few times I’ve gotten proper use out of it, it’s downright brilliant. Because you can res people at range and while moving, it’s actually very good at getting people up during stuff like Giaganticus Lupicus or the Mai Trin fight. If they fix the aforementioned issues (and tone down the recharge a bit) I could see it being viable to some glyphic support builds.

The lesser elemental and glyph of elemental power have their uses, either as dps boost or to help spam certain conditions. They’re both useful for my personal playstyle (and the summon certainly has use in PvE) which makes me think it’s mostly personal preference. To a staff ele, hitting stuff is a real concern and the snares from GoEP and the summons help alleviate that a lot.

GoEP has too much tension which isn’t good design.

Guess we differ in opinion here. To me, it’s a good way to fill up on certain conditions in addition to those caused by the elementals and weapon skills. It’s not the greatest skill to put a stunbreaker on, but I agree with Anet that stunbreakers shouldn’t be limited to cantrips. With the traits’ emphasis on using many of the same skill type, this was the most logical choice. If that aura glyph that was suggested is ever designed, it’d make for a better choice.

Boring is very relevant when it comes to game design

Agreed but it is also subjective and hence cannot always be the main concern.