Guild Wars 2

So our story begins when we are teased with elemental sword skills. The dream was rel, Ele would be getting sword. However the dream didn’t last and warhorn was destined to be our new weapon.

Although this was painful, the idea of a tempst, being able to call storms or become a living storm was an exciting prospect. Tempest means a violent storm.
The reveal arrives, not only do we get nothing to fit the name tempest, we are given a support role worse then what we already do.
Nothing about Tempest synergized with the rest of the class. our new mechanic was dead on arrival.

Then herald is announced. herald would be revealed to fill the melee support role. It is given nice sounding utilities that will make them strong, tanky front line support.

And now, Warriors, a martial class with no real magic. they are given the ability to become a mobile fire field, something that the ele should have being a master of elements. They also get a new utility type exclusive to them. and from what is known. they already synergize with their base class. Rampage with berserk mode. a Versatile Rage, fast hands, Burst mastery. these traits will feed the primal burst creating a non stop stream of primal bursts. and that is just 3 traits from the many.

So why, why does Anet hate us so. we are like the awkward nephew they keep hidden under the stairs and do everything they can to stop us realizing our power.

Maybe they see d/d ele is the best so they need nothing and we care about ele last …

The reveal arrives, not only do we get nothing to fit the name tempest, we are given a support role worse then what we already do.
Nothing about Tempest synergized with the rest of the class. our new mechanic was dead on arrival.

Um, you may not like Tempest, but none of what you said there makes any sense. First, the Tempest is definitely “Tempesty,” it’s all about generating effects in which you are the “eye of the storm” and casting chaos all around you. There’s very little they could have done more “Tempesty” while retaining the four elements.

Second, it definitely synergizes great with the existing class, you can throw Overloads into a standard D/D rotation and it works great. Again, not sure what they could have done that would work much better.

Now they still need to tweak some things, as was the case with all the other elite specs, but the foundation of it is sound.

No pun intended.

As for the rest, if you like Herald or Zerker more, play those, nobody’s stopping you. I don’t think either of those would have worked well for Elementalists, they make no sense relative to the four elements mechanic that is the core feature of the class, nor would they work nearly as well on a light armored class. Now, I wouldn’t argue with them if they made it so that all Overloads were mobile Fire/Water/Lightning/Poison fields while you channel them, but that’s another matter entirely.

Ohoni.6057:

The reveal arrives, not only do we get nothing to fit the name tempest, we are given a support role worse then what we already do.
Nothing about Tempest synergized with the rest of the class. our new mechanic was dead on arrival.

Um, you may not like Tempest, but none of what you said there makes any sense. First, the Tempest is definitely “Tempesty,” it’s all about generating effects in which you are the “eye of the storm” and casting chaos all around you. There’s very little they could have done more “Tempesty” while retaining the four elements.

Second, it definitely synergizes great with the existing class, you can throw Overloads into a standard D/D rotation and it works great. Again, not sure what they could have done that would work much better.

Now they still need to tweak some things, as was the case with all the other elite specs, but the foundation of it is sound.

No pun intended.

As for the rest, if you like Herald or Zerker more, play those, nobody’s stopping you. I don’t think either of those would have worked well for Elementalists, they make no sense relative to the four elements mechanic that is the core feature of the class, nor would they work nearly as well on a light armored class. Now, I wouldn’t argue with them if they made it so that all Overloads were mobile Fire/Water/Lightning/Poison fields while you channel them, but that’s another matter entirely.

Tempest is a violent storm. we barely have anything to do with storms. we have like maybe a gentle breeze, a light dust cloud. a weak fire. a summer rain, a slight tremble. You can;t throw overloads into a normal rotation. that is willfully hindering yourself.

I love ele. it is the class I main. I have all right to be upset by the kitten we are given and envy the classes that are given better elite specs. but I am not going to stop playing an ele because of that. Just like you have the right to foolishly defend it…Your wrong in doing so but I am not going to stop you.

This has nothing to do with trying to be like the other Specs. It is about being given the same respect.

Tempest is a violent storm. we barely have anything to do with storms. we have like maybe 3 small storm like effects.

Well, the Air overload is literally a storm, the other three are more metaphorical, but really what would be the alternative? Have the Tempest abandon the four elements altogether in favor of just stormy weather attacks? I don’t see how that would be better.

You can;t throw overloads into a normal rotation. that is willfully hindering yourself.

In my experience it didn’t seem that way, but if the number-crunchers say so, it’s just a matter of tweaking numbers, to make the Overloads more powerful, and therefore better balanced against the alternatives. Maybe the proposed BWE2 fixes will help with that.

Ohoni.6057:

Tempest is a violent storm. we barely have anything to do with storms. we have like maybe 3 small storm like effects.

Well, the Air overload is literally a storm, the other three are more metaphorical, but really what would be the alternative? Have the Tempest abandon the four elements altogether in favor of just stormy weather attacks? I don’t see how that would be better.

You can;t throw overloads into a normal rotation. that is willfully hindering yourself.

In my experience it didn’t seem that way, but if the number-crunchers say so, it’s just a matter of tweaking numbers, to make the Overloads more powerful, and therefore better balanced against the alternatives. Maybe the proposed BWE2 fixes will help with that.

You are willfully ignorant.
We could have a great maestrom that appears on the ground. sucking foes into the middle of the whirlpool before breaking into a tidal clash.

We could have a Tornado extending out from dark thunder clouds.

We could have a dust storm, a thick rolling cloud of dirt and rocks, that blinds and chokes (ticks damage) and stacks vuln on enemies.

For fire. an inferno of violent flames with embers swirling about and creating small fire fields around the main one

Also it isn;t just number crunching, it is the concept. Overloads are a melee range thing, so if you want to be a ranged staff, overloads are pointless. It is already established that the channel is interrupt bait, and sure they can add stab and increase numbers. but that doesn’t adress that it would offer exactly what D/D D/F already does. You have been on these forums long enough to understand this.

Ohoni.6057:

-snip-

You’re the person who created that thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Some-people-don-t-like-hard-mode/first

Which for me means you don’t care about efficiency of tempest but that it looks “nice”. Surprise, surprise, you have it.

You are willfully ignorant.
We could have a great maestrom that appears on the ground. sucking foes into the middle of the whirlpool before breaking into a tidal clash.

We could have a Tornado extending out from dark thunder clouds.

We could have a dust storm, a thick rolling cloud of dirt and rocks, that blinds and chokes (ticks damage) and stacks vuln on enemies.

For fire. an inferno of violent flames with embers swirling about and creating small fire fields around the main one.

Well, there’s a limit to the scale of an effect that a single character can realistically generate in this game. There is already an elite to turn into a tornado, another tornado would not be better. The whirlpool could be nifty, but the Mesmer is already doing something very similar with the Gravity Well, and that’s an elite. I doubt they would give it to anyone as a standard ability.

Sure, it would be neat if Eles were wielding these massive screen filling eruptions, but imagine a dozen of those guys fighting in a boss battle, it would be horrendous. For an elite with a 3 minute CD, maybe, but not an ability you can pop every 30 seconds, and rotate through several within that time. I wouldn’t mind seeing some graphical upgrades to the existing ones. I’ve suggested a few in the feedback threads, like putting more flames into the fire channel phase, and changing the animation of the Earth one so that when it ends your character slams into the ground hard, instead of floating down.

Also it isn;t just number crunching, it is the concept. Overloads are a melee range thing, so if you want to be a ranged staff, overloads are pointless.

This is totally true. If you want to play as a Tempest, I highly recommend that you don’t use Staff. If you want to use Staff, I recommend playing one of the other available Ele builds, they will likely work better for you. You can use the staff, but it doesn’t make a lot of sense.

It is already established that the channel is interrupt bait, and sure they can add stab and increase numbers. but that doesn’t adress that it would offer exactly what D/D D/F already does. You have been on these forums long enough to understand this.

Yeah, but D/D is pretty cool, so making more of that is a good thing. You highlighted jealousy over the Berserker announcement, but really how is Berserker not just “more of what Warrior already does?”

You’re the person who created that thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Some-people-don-t-like-hard-mode/first

Which for me means you don’t care about efficiency of tempest but that it looks “nice”. Surprise, surprise, you have it.

I care about both, but efficiency is just a matter of tweaking the numbers.

Ohoni.6057:

I care about both, but efficiency is just a matter of tweaking the numbers.

That’s why necros are welcomed in parties.

Ohoni, I have a feeling you are a really dedicated troll but on the off chance you aren’t I’ll give you a serious reply.

“There is already an elite to turn into a tornado, another tornado would not be better. "
It couldn’t possibly be worse than what the current tornado is. This current elite is so useless for so many things its hardly worth mentioning. So yes a new tornado elite would have been better than that god awful rebound shout. Ele lacks meaningful elite skills and rebound could have been something epic, we could have had a long cooldown elite skill that created a large storm on the field. Instead we got something to help other classes use their more fun elites more often.

“Yeah, but D/D is pretty cool, so making more of that is a good thing.”
From a PvP perspective Cele D/D is so incredibly good its bordering on OP, making the tempest fill the same niche is either bound to be broken OP or straight up worse. Currently its the latter. There is no reason to drop a trait line to take tempest, its just not worth it at all.

PvE wise there isn’t a reason to take it unless you don’t care about efficiency. Staff as you’ve mentioned is a given, even if you are in melee range with a staff there just is no reason to take tempest. But I mean even with dagger mh, what does taking tempest give me? Not a whole lot. Maybe Stacking might and sharing it out then swapping right out of tempest. I can’t see a reason why I would ever want a warhorn over my focus if I’m going to be using a dagger. As it stands the tempest is a huge damage loss for no real gain.

Tempest is a long way off where it needs to be and the changes made for the next BWE are hardly going to change much. The fact of the matter is that they dropped the ball, now I’m not saying that tempest can’t be good with the right changes, it can and I want it to be. However, they blew the first impression and blew it again when they addressed the community about what changes were happening.

Currently how things stand its like christmas day and all the other kids are opening shiny new toys, but we got socks. Hopefully your relentless preaching about how tempest isn’t bad and will be good is true, I want to be wrong about tempest being awful when it launches.

Ohoni.6057:

Yadda yadda Yadda

It is about 3 things
Respect: The other specializations treated with respect
Synergy: The other elite specs still maintain synergy with the base class. meaning all their weapons can still be used and they aren’t forced into 1 thing
New ideas, effects and mechanics
Chrono gets alacrity and rewind mechanic
Reaper gets a new minion with a new effect
Herald is given a new form of signets (this is on top of the revenant already having taunt among some other new effects)
Berserker is given newly made, unique utilities, Mobile field, ability to turn foes into projectiles

Tempest…nothing except movement animations…but that is all, animations, one of them is a reused dagger storm

I have left out Dragon Hunter because it doesn’t interest me at all and I don’t feel confident commenting on it.

That’s why necros are welcomed in parties.

They would certainly be more welcome if ANet tweaked their numbers. If Necros were dealing out the best damage in the game, I doubt anyone would turn them away.

It couldn’t possibly be worse than what the current tornado is. This current elite is so useless for so many things its hardly worth mentioning. So yes a new tornado elite would have been better than that god awful rebound shout.

But it would be redundant. I’m not defending Rebound, I think it needs to go, but whatever they replace it with shouldn’t be a tornado. Ideally they would just make the existing Tornado better. Whatever they replace Rebound with could be some sort of stormy effect, but that’s just the one Elite.

From a PvP perspective Cele D/D is so incredibly good its bordering on OP, making the tempest fill the same niche is either bound to be broken OP or straight up worse.

The PvP perspective is used too often in designing this game. Ok, so the Tempest is not useful in PvP. That’s fine. The Tempest should not be used in PvP, or with Staves, that’s ok. As you say, the D/D dagger is already fine in PvP, they don’t need for Tempest to be ideal in PvP as well.

But I mean even with dagger mh, what does taking tempest give me? Not a whole lot. Maybe Stacking might and sharing it out then swapping right out of tempest.

Try a D/D tempest, it’s pretty fun. It’ll be even more fun if they enhance the strength of the Overloads. it basically gives you a whole new toolkit to work with, adding the Overloads into your rotations.

I can’t see a reason why I would ever want a warhorn over my focus if I’m going to be using a dagger.

Yeah, the Warhorn doesn’t really suit my playstyle, so I can’t offer any suggestions. They might need to make some significant improvements to that one, but really what could they reasonably do given the limitations on Ele weapons? Personally, I wanted a pistol, but I can wait for the next round of elites.

Currently how things stand its like christmas day and all the other kids are opening shiny new toys, but we got socks.

Yeah, but the thing is, it’s not Christmas Day, Christmas Day is months away yet. Right now it’s just speculation about what Christmas Day might bring.

Respect: The other specializations…except maybe DH were treated with respect

The Tempest was treated with no less respect than the others, the guy doing the write-up just wasn’t as eloquent about it as the guy writing the other write-ups. It happens.

Synergy: The other elite specs still maintain synergy with the base class. meaning all their weapons can still be used and they aren’t forced into 1 thing

You can’t exactly make anything work with the other specs, but there is a bit more versatility. It’s tricky to pull off with the Ele though, since they are limited to no weapon swapping and a small pool of weapon options due to their core class mechanic. People are upset that Tempest only works best with D/D, D/W, and D/F, but keep in mind that just D/D alone already offers four skill lines, the equivalent to four two-handers or eight M/O combos. Between the three primary options, you have 36 different skills to work with.

New ideas, effects and mechanics

The overload channels are pretty new. Yes, they aren’t completely revolutionary, but then neither is the Reaper Shroud, which is just a new variety of Death Shroud. I think that properly tuned they will add a lot of new variety. It’s also not inconceivable that Tempest will pick up other new elements as the beta goes on, it’s still well early yet.

Ohoni.6057:

They would certainly be more welcome if ANet tweaked their numbers. If Necros were dealing out the best damage in the game, I doubt anyone would turn them away.

Necros are actually quite high in dps department, they’re not taken because they don’t bring anything or other professions do it better.

The highest single target dps brings thief yet you only take one.

When the entire spec line has no synergy, no higher level design and brings almost nothing new, numbers won’t help and you are naive to think otherwise.

Synergy is a keyword here. Tempest has near non with current builds and overloads are even agaisnt ele´s rotation.
But it must not be so bad. As we all hope is that its tweaked till release so it offes more build diversity instead of just being there for maybe a WvW healer build …

Ohoni.6057:

The PvP perspective is used too often in designing this game. Ok, so the Tempest is not useful in PvP. That’s fine. The Tempest should not be used in PvP, or with Staves, that’s ok. As you say, the D/D dagger is already fine in PvP, they don’t need for Tempest to be ideal in PvP as well.

And this is where credibility is lost (not that there was any) No longer to be taken serious when discussing design.

“Lets make an elite spec that can only be used in 1 of the 3 aspects of the game, and can’t use the tools of the base class”

anyone suggesting that at a meeting would be laughed out of the room

Theres no need to completly dam tempest. I can see the concept is valid (its a bit uninspired but useful).
But current numbers and traits make ele build with it worse and the result of that is quite clear.
As ele specialist try to make complete new builds with it. Maybe you find a useful one.

A solution will be:
Take overcharges aside. This can be balanced independent/later. If they are weak, it doesn´t matter in balancing and are just a flashy ad on.
Rework traits so the result is diffrent builds that can compete with current one´s and open a valid way to substitute cantrips.
Rework rebound.

When trait rework is done and alows diffrent specs, then go for overload numbers so the traits synergizing make sense opening more build options.

Then look at WH. Its mostly fine but a few numbers changed might be good.

At least thats what i would do ….

Ohoni.6057:

…
Yeah, but D/D is pretty cool, so making more of that is a good thing. You highlighted jealousy over the Berserker announcement, but really how is Berserker not just “more of what Warrior already does?”
…

D/D is the reason why ele will always get lackluster new things. How do you make sure that the squishiest class has a melee build? 1) By turning them into a melee class with a spell or 2) by giving them overpowered abilities.

As long as D/D is OP everything else that is added will be weak. So no D/D is not cool, it’s a crutch for the balance team to reduce their workload.

Giving the squishiest class a melee build is always a horrible idea.

So now Anet is giving might stacking to the most powerful heavy-armor/high hp pool class. Why would you run tempest in pvp when you can run another class that has twice the armor/hp, will do 10 times more damage and have a elite that isn’t complete kitten?

The players teased them self looking at place holder sword skills and thinking they where for ele. Anet did nothing.

Jski.6180:

The players teased them self looking at place holder sword skills and thinking they where for ele. Anet did nothing.

name a class that has the ability to switch between four elements and doesn’t already have a sword.

Argol Vazin.3061:

Jski.6180:

The players teased them self looking at place holder sword skills and thinking they where for ele. Anet did nothing.

name a class that has the ability to switch between four elements and doesn’t already have a sword.

Eng? Though i think they have more then 4 and they can switch between 5 at most base wepon being one of the 5.

O sry i though you where just asking. Any way data do that a lot they use old skills as place holders for new ones its not relevant what they say do or even are called odds are they where place holder for rev sword.

Jski.6180:

Argol Vazin.3061:

Jski.6180:

The players teased them self looking at place holder sword skills and thinking they where for ele. Anet did nothing.

name a class that has the ability to switch between four elements and doesn’t already have a sword.

Eng? Though i think they have more then 4 and they can switch between 5 at most base wepon being one of the 5.

ELEMENTS…you know, fire, water, air, earth. Just like those leaked sword skills. Also Forge is getting hammer (forge is engi elite spec)

Argol Vazin.3061:

Jski.6180:

Argol Vazin.3061:

Jski.6180:

The players teased them self looking at place holder sword skills and thinking they where for ele. Anet did nothing.

name a class that has the ability to switch between four elements and doesn’t already have a sword.

Eng? Though i think they have more then 4 and they can switch between 5 at most base wepon being one of the 5.

ELEMENTS…you know, fire, water, air, earth. Just like those leaked sword skills. Also Forge is getting hammer (forge is engi elite spec)

Posted the response above more as an after though. But i would like to point out that elements are just a name its more about being able to switch these effect in a fight so in a way eng with kits is just like an ele but under a different name. (At the end of the day this is a game and this is all in programming names and animation are not needed for the abitly to work they are more for the player benefit.)

Other specs added diversity and potentially different roles for other professions

Tempest didn’t
Adjusting numbers isn’t going to make it any different
It’s not diverse/unique enough from the core, thats the problem. Not number tweaking.. It’s more of the same D/D ele.

ohni says…"Yeah, but D/D is pretty cool, so making more of that is a good thing. You highlighted jealousy over the Berserker announcement, but really how is Berserker not just “more of what Warrior already does?”

MAKING MORE OF THE SAME kitten WE ALREADY HAVE IS NOT COOL
they literally just added a WORSE D/D ELE…

tempest/overload is absolutely TRASH and USELESS outside melee range (no use in scepter/staff period) so all we got was a revamped use for d/d…. unfortuntely D/D is borderline OP right now

every other elite spec has added meaningful variety to their profession. Tempest did not.

Also, berserker for warrior added condi build variety. They were one of the weakest condi classes if you specced towards it, at least now they can potentially be better with more access to burning.

Jski.6180:

Argol Vazin.3061:

Jski.6180:

Argol Vazin.3061:

Jski.6180:

The players teased them self looking at place holder sword skills and thinking they where for ele. Anet did nothing.

name a class that has the ability to switch between four elements and doesn’t already have a sword.

Eng? Though i think they have more then 4 and they can switch between 5 at most base wepon being one of the 5.

ELEMENTS…you know, fire, water, air, earth. Just like those leaked sword skills. Also Forge is getting hammer (forge is engi elite spec)

Posted the response above more as an after though. But i would like to point out that elements are just a name its more about being able to switch these effect in a fight so in a way eng with kits is just like an ele but under a different name. (At the end of the day this is a game and this is all in programming names and animation are not needed for the abitly to work they are more for the player benefit.)

now where did I put that epic double facepalm video

Argol Vazin.3061:

I love ele. it is the class I main. I have all right to be upset by the kitten we are given and envy the classes that are given better elite specs. but I am not going to stop playing an ele because of that. Just like you have the right to foolishly defend it…Your wrong in doing so but I am not going to stop you.

This has nothing to do with trying to be like the other Specs. It is about being given the same respect.

Eh..what?

He isn’t wrong in trying to defend his opinion. Don’t call him a “fool” for that.

I personally like the name a lot. It also fits into the “overloads”. Lore-vise warhorn works fine and makes sense. So cut Anet some slack there.
I personally would have prefered sword main-hand as well but lamenting over it won’t give you a sword. Just take it as it is.

However, Tempest doesn’t work as it is now. It simply won’t be played because it either underperforms or requires sth. which is ridiculous to accomplish.
The current risk / reward-ish doesn’t work.
Also did tempest destroy the synergy behind the elementalist and everything it was based on, prior to this ludicrous trait / mechanic reveals.

So, I am all for sth useful and new. Tempest isn’t useful nor “new”. [It’s just the same in green ( german – english translation, works just best ] Same difference, with some new animations, which suck by the way. (Especially “earth overload” needs some huge rework).

If the reveal of the so called challenging group content offers sth worthy of calling it “challenging”. I don’t understand how the elementalist will survive playing melee even with Celestial gear, since he will use his overloads – locking him out of attunenments which guaranteed his versatility and therefore increased his chance of survival. With that gone, I can’t see him performing anywhere beside mid-range / range distance.
Problem here, when playing mid-range / range all overloads become useless.

As I already stated in some earlier discussion thread. The synergy behind the elementalist was / is destroyed beyond compare with how it is now.

Necros are actually quite high in dps department, they’re not taken because they don’t bring anything or other professions do it better.

That’s my point. If they tweaked the numbers to the extent that Necros did it best, they would be more popular. Don’t underestimate the power of number tweaking.

And this is where credibility is lost (not that there was any) No longer to be taken serious when discussing design.

“Lets make an elite spec that can only be used in 1 of the 3 aspects of the game, and can’t use the tools of the base class”

anyone suggesting that at a meeting would be laughed out of the room

Why? Why should the elite spec be designed to do great at the things the class already excels in? Remember that they don’t intend for the elite specs to be unbalanced verses the existing classes. They want them to add options, not overrun the field. The goal seems to be that the 2016 world championship finals will not be dominated by Reapers, Berserkers, Dragon Hunters, etc., but will instead have a solid mix of elite specs and standard specs.

Some specs can be designed to boost PvP performance, but they don’t all have to be, so long as they bring fun and useful roles into play in other areas of the game. They don’t have to be something that everyone will find fun or useful to their own play style, so long as a decent number of people do find it fun and useful.

Ohoni.6057:

That’s my point. If they tweaked the numbers to the extent that Necros did it best, they would be more popular. Don’t underestimate the power of number tweaking.

The only good thing necro is good at is vuln stacking and it’s not needed no matter how much anet would buff it, necro won’t be taken for pve meta groups.

Anet most likely do like you try to tell us is a best approach. Because of that, since launch, ele use only 1 build in pvp and is either OP or trash tier. Perfect example of stubbornness and expecting different results with the same approach.

Once d/d is nerfed similar to how it was nerfed in June 2013 I wonder which excuse tempest knights would use.

Ohoni.6057:

Why? Why should the elite spec be designed to do great at the things the class already excels in? Remember that they don’t intend for the elite specs to be unbalanced verses the existing classes. They want them to add options, not overrun the field. The goal seems to be that the 2016 world championship finals will not be dominated by Reapers, Berserkers, Dragon Hunters, etc., but will instead have a solid mix of elite specs and standard specs.

We can be kitten sure there won’t be any tempests in the current form.

I’m just shocked at the attitude some of you seem to have. Ele currently has 1st or 2nd highest dps in the game for pve, and a rediculously good bruser build for pvp, as well as other fairly competent ones. Why would you need a specialization that buffs the class further and does these rediculously amazing and op things? What is this “wound” a net is putting salt on? They gave you a spec that focuses on aoe group support in the face of what they call “challenging content”. I just don’t see what the problem is. Tempest is just a name, be glad you didn’t get one as bad as “Dragon Hunter”.

I don’t even think Dragon Hunter is a bad name.

rotten.9753:

no matter how much anet would buff it, necro won’t be taken for pve meta groups.

Double the damage of the dagger auto and triple the damage of wells, and every pve meta group will be taking a necro. Maybe even 2 or 3.

Edit: Remember a few weeks ago how 5 guardian record dungeon runs became a thing? A single numbers bug did that.

Once d/d is nerfed similar to how it was nerfed in June 2013 I wonder which excuse tempest knights would use.

When circumstances change, responses need to adapt. I don’t see why you should imply this is a negative. If the Tempest concept actually sucked, I don’t think anyone would be in favor of it.

We can be kitten sure there won’t be any tempests in the current form.

And that’s fine. Tempests don’t have to be a PvP spec. That is not a negative against the spec. But would you argue that there won’t be any Elementalists at all? Not even the current meta builds?

I don’t even think Dragon Hunter is a bad name.

It’s passionately dumb for the Guardians, worst Elite spec so far. They should have gone with “Avenger.”

Ohoni.6057:

Once d/d is nerfed similar to how it was nerfed in June 2013 I wonder which excuse tempest knights would use.

When circumstances change, responses need to adapt. I don’t see why you should imply this is a negative. If the Tempest concept actually sucked, I don’t think anyone would be in favor of it.

We can be kitten sure there won’t be any tempests in the current form.

And that’s fine. Tempests don’t have to be a PvP spec. That is not a negative against the spec. But would you argue that there won’t be any Elementalists at all? Not even the current meta builds?

I don’t even think Dragon Hunter is a bad name.

It’s passionately dumb for the Guardians, worst Elite spec so far. They should have gone with “Avenger.”

Yes it is. Thats the bloody definition of a negative.

it is totally and completely USELESS in an ENTIRE GAME MODE.
How is that positive in ANY shape or form?

And yes i would HAPPILY argue that there won’t be any tempest eles even in PvE.
Ele’s are ALREADY TOP NOTCH IN PVE. Useful in every encounter, dungs/fracs, etc etc. What exactly will tempest do when eles are already great?? There no different role tempest plays in PvE than current meta ele builds…

You and like maybe 3 other ppl are the only ones who see tempest in its current state as a positive.

tboneking.2531:

I’m just shocked at the attitude some of you seem to have. Ele currently has 1st or 2nd highest dps in the game for pve, and a rediculously good bruser build for pvp, as well as other fairly competent ones. Why would you need a specialization that buffs the class further and does these rediculously amazing and op things? What is this “wound” a net is putting salt on? They gave you a spec that focuses on aoe group support in the face of what they call “challenging content”. I just don’t see what the problem is. Tempest is just a name, be glad you didn’t get one as bad as “Dragon Hunter”.

have you actually played Tempest or read the forum. we don’t want something overpowered. we want something new. Tempest is a weaker, flawed version of what we already do with no synergy with the base class. please learn a thing or 2 before posting.

Ohoni.6057:

Second, it definitely synergizes great with the existing class, you can throw Overloads into a standard D/D rotation and it works great. Again, not sure what they could have done that would work much better.

It synergises with dagger it doesn’t synergise with staff or scepter at all so no it doesn’t synergise with the class overall.

rotten.9753:

Ohoni.6057:

-snip-

You’re the person who created that thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Some-people-don-t-like-hard-mode/first

Which for me means you don’t care about efficiency of tempest but that it looks “nice”. Surprise, surprise, you have it.

You say that like it does look nice… There are handful of “OK” effects, but nothing really seems to have the polish and shine of the revenant or even many of the other elite specs. On top of that we have a bunch of recycled animations. Fire overload is the same old spin from dagger storm or axe 5. Lightning overload is that point-your-arm-in-the-air from mass invis. The bubble from water overload is straight off a quaggan tonic.

And not to mention that warhorn skills still sound very much the same as every other warhorn skill.

it is totally and completely USELESS in an ENTIRE GAME MODE.
How is that positive in ANY shape or form?

Most specs are completely useless in at least one game mode, many of them are useless in most game modes. That isn’t necessarily a bad thing. It’s actually a bit suspicious if a build is great in all three modes, that seems a bit OP relative to the rest of the game.

And yes i would HAPPILY argue that there won’t be any tempest eles even in PvE.
Ele’s are ALREADY TOP NOTCH IN PVE. Useful in every encounter, dungs/fracs, etc etc. What exactly will tempest do when eles are already great?? There no different role tempest plays in PvE than current meta ele builds…

Variety. So long as Tempests are balanced to be fun and functional in PvP, people will play them because they get bored with their current meta build. This is true of 90% of the possible builds in the game.

You and like maybe 3 other ppl are the only ones who see tempest in its current state as a positive.

I feel the need to repeat that I’m not 100% positive about the Tempest, there are changes I’d like to see, some of them significant, I just like the general core of the spec well enough, and can see how relatively easy it will be for them to whip it into proper shape. The BWE1 Tempest wasn’t perfect, but I had more fun playing it than with Revenant and Chronomancer, and about as much fun as reaper, and the proposed BWE2 changes will offer a significant improvement.

It synergises with dagger it doesn’t synergise with staff or scepter at all so no it doesn’t synergise with the class overall.

It doesn’t synergize with every weapon in the class, but that would be very hard to pull off with a class designed like the Elementalist. It works well with three out of the seven possible weapon combinations (arguably five out of seven). That’s really not half bad.

What you’re upset about is that it doesn’t synergize well with the weapons you would prefer to use.

You say that like it does look nice… There are handful of “OK” effects, but nothing really seems to have the polish and shine of the revenant or even many of the other elite specs.

They need to work on some things, but I don’t expect final pass on animations and effects from the first showing. They can continue to improve on these things as development continues. They have a solid foundation though.

And not to mention that warhorn skills still sound very much the same as every other warhorn skill.

And that they’ve already said that they are working on new ones, but that doesn’t matter because it’s not nownownow and baby needs his toy now!

Ohoni.6057:

You say that like it does look nice… There are handful of “OK” effects, but nothing really seems to have the polish and shine of the revenant or even many of the other elite specs.

They need to work on some things, but I don’t expect final pass on animations and effects from the first showing. They can continue to improve on these things as development continues. They have a solid foundation though.

And not to mention that warhorn skills still sound very much the same as every other warhorn skill.

And that they’ve already said that they are working on new ones, but that doesn’t matter because it’s not nownownow and baby needs his toy now!

Source? Much of what I’ve read recently has said that animations/art/sound is the hardest part to change. Which would suggest it’s not the last thing to be finished, and would be why they’ve been leaning much more towards tweaking numbers in hopes achieving balance.

Ohoni.6057:

but that doesn’t matter because it’s not nownownow and baby needs his toy now!

Also, don’t be a kitten .

Honestly its because Karl McLain designed Tempest and Dragonhunter (the baaad specs).

While Robert Gee designed the Reaper/Chronomancer/Berserker that all look great so far. Roy is somewhere in btween them with his work on the revenant but is leaning closer to Robert.

Ohoni.6057:

What you’re upset about is that it doesn’t synergize well with the weapons you would prefer to use.

Wow you’re reading minds now as well, or maybe not given how you’re wrong.

Source? Much of what I’ve read recently has said that animations/art/sound is the hardest part to change.

It takes a lot of work, but the current classes are still a work in progress, I don’t expect them to be completely finished.

Which would suggest it’s not the last thing to be finished, and would be why they’ve been leaning much more towards tweaking numbers in hopes achieving balance.

Ok, seriously, this needs to stop. They are NOT leaning towards number tweaks to “solve” the Tempest. I have no doubt that they expect to make significant changes to the Tempest in later beta phases, nothing that they’ve said on the matter gives any indication that they think they will be “done” with the Tempest once they “fix” it with these number updates. The number updates are just what they are capable of by the next BWE2 window, so that’s what we’re getting, and while I’m sure they have zero confidence that currently disgruntled players will be satisfied with the Tempest in BWE2, the adjusted numbers should make them more viable as a testbed, and provide useful data that they can use when further developing the class.

Bigger changes ARE coming, I have no doubt of that, they just aren’t talking about them because they never talk about things that they aren’t ready to launch yet. There will be major changes between now and launch, at the very least on the mechanics side. I couldn’t say whether those changes would satisfy the detractors, I think it’s impossible for them to do away with Overloads, or the Warhorn as the weapon, and it will almost certainly remain a channeled PBAoE ability, so gauge your expectations within those bounds, but I’m sure we’ll see some significant mechanics changes to how some of the Overloads work, new buffs and/or debuffs added to them, and hopefully an entirely new Elite skill because nobody is happy with the current one. I also wouldn’t be surprised if they changed the intention with several of the war horn skills to make it more attractive, and again they’ve already committed to improving the audio functions.

Honestly its because Karl McLain designed Tempest and Dragonhunter (the baaad specs).

While Robert Gee designed the Reaper/Chronomancer/Berserker that all look great so far. Roy is somewhere in btween them with his work on the revenant but is leaning closer to Robert.

Maybe, I tend to doubt it though, because while these people are leads, I doubt they have free reign, and a lot of decisions are likely made by committee. If some of the classes are genuinely shaping up to be dogs and others are shaping up to be great, I don’t believe the higher-ups would just be like “well, what can we do, I guess if that’s the best that designer can do, we have to deal with it.” I don’t think one person would be allowed to fail the company like that.

Keep in mind, the versions being put in the beta are not fully representative of what they intend to run with, are not fully representative of the best they’ve done internally, they are just the best of the stuff that is ready and tested when the launch window comes up.

Wow you’re reading minds now as well, or maybe not given how you’re wrong.

Uhhh, huh. Then why so much focus on how it doesn’t synergize well “with the class,” when even you admit it does synergize fine with the dagger combinations?

dagger combination DOES NOT NEED SYNERGY!. It should have been lower priority but the fact anet completely blew it is what a lot of ppl are complaining about.

dagger is already the most verstatile weapon ele has… what is so hard to understand about that??? There is NO reason to make it synergize BEST with dagger..

Ohoni, the white knight vs the world.
I wonder why you guys even bother with him; he’s a huge troll. There is literally NOTHING wrong with us asking for changes as they will benefit ALL Tempests.
Too much complaining? That’s the point of a beta and when people feel ignored when they give their feedback, then Anet should expect this kind of stuff to happen.
No excuses.

SkiTz.4590:

dagger combination DOES NOT NEED SYNERGY!. It should have been lower priority but the fact anet completely blew it is what a lot of ppl are complaining about.

dagger is already the most verstatile weapon ele has… what is so hard to understand about that??? There is NO reason to make it synergize BEST with dagger..

Spot on dagger did not need an extension to its play style.

dagger combination DOES NOT NEED SYNERGY!. It should have been lower priority but the fact anet completely blew it is what a lot of ppl are complaining about.

dagger is already the most verstatile weapon ele has… what is so hard to understand about that??? There is NO reason to make it synergize BEST with dagger..

You seem to be talking in circles. Dagger is already the most fun build, why shouldn’t ANet double-down on the build players seem to like? I mean, if you don’t like it, then you don’t have to play it, but you not liking it doesn’t mean that ANet made the wrong move.

There are basically two ways to make an extension set, to either fill a role that the class currently does not have, like maybe the Reaper, or to enhance the thing that the class already does well, like the Berserker. They went the latter route with the Tempest, and that’s fine.

Too much complaining? That’s the point of a beta and when people feel ignored when they give their feedback, then Anet should expect this kind of stuff to happen.

There is a broad difference between constructive feedback and complaining. Complaining is to be expected, but that doesn’t make it right. People who want to leave constructive feedback certainly should, I am not saying that the Tempest is perfect and could not benefit from some improvements, but much of the complaining is just griping about how the other classes “are getting more attention,” or how they don’t want a PBAoE spec at all.

Ohoni.6057:

dagger combination DOES NOT NEED SYNERGY!. It should have been lower priority but the fact anet completely blew it is what a lot of ppl are complaining about.

dagger is already the most verstatile weapon ele has… what is so hard to understand about that??? There is NO reason to make it synergize BEST with dagger..

You seem to be talking in circles. Dagger is already the most fun build, why shouldn’t ANet double-down on the build players seem to like? I mean, if you don’t like it, then you don’t have to play it, but you not liking it doesn’t mean that ANet made the wrong move.

There are basically two ways to make an extension set, to either fill a role that the class currently does not have, like maybe the Reaper, or to enhance the thing that the class already does well, like the Berserker. They went the latter route with the Tempest, and that’s fine.

Why would you double down? Its already opitmal dude. Why would you bother giving something that is already optimal , a completely unnesseary revamp?.. When there are literallly no other fun or viable build…. They added no diversity what so ever. You are completely clueless and just trolling at this point, dagger is already fun and in a great state, then why not make scepter or focus more fun and viable!??
They gave warriors a new role with berseker and torch by giving them potentially a viable condi build….they never did condi well! So your logic made no sense in that example….
Every class so far as added versatility with their elite spec except tempest… They did nothing to make other weapons more fun or more viable for ele, period…its just a worse d/d ele
There is no point in enhancing something that a class already does well…you give them other possible roles that they dont do well, a chance. Give synergy to weapons and skills that arent doing well…not synergy to something thats already awesome

Why would you double down? Its already opitmal dude. Why would you bother giving something that is already optimal , a completely unnesseary revamp?..

If the existing class specs are not optimal, they should not be balanced out by making an event better Elite spec, that’s just lazy power creep. If the existing class specs are not good enough, then they should be improved on their own merits. The Elite spec should just be a new option to play with, balanced against the existing ones.

In that way, the Tempest is an alternate way for dagger players to play, to provide a different experience, since while D/D is fun, they might have gotten a bit bored with it over the years.

You are completely clueless and just trolling at this point, dagger is already fun and in a great state, then why not make scepter or focus more fun and viable!??

They could do that, but there’s no reaosn they had to. You could say the same about any class, why isn’t Chronomancer all about the staff? Why isn’t Dragon Hunter all about the Hammer? They picked a direction and went that way, and it doesn’t have to be the direction you would have chosen, but it’s not a bad direction either.

They gave warriors a new role with berseker and torch by giving them potentially a viable condi build….they never did condi well! So your logic made no sense in that example….

. . .

The Warrior never did Condi well. . .

And I’m supposed to take your word as to how this game works over my own. . .

SkiTz.4590:

Ohoni.6057:

snip (non sense dont deserve to be quoted)

it is totally and completely USELESS in an ENTIRE GAME MODE.
How is that positive in ANY shape or form?

“it is totally and completely USELESS in ANY GAME MODE”

Fixed, no need to thank me

Ohoni.6057:

The Warrior never did Condi well. . .

And I’m supposed to take your word as to how this game works over my own. . .

Warrior has never had a meta condi build in pvp. Try harder next time.