Guild Wars 2

Feanor.2358:

Jski.6180:

Spvp and wvw builds effective and balance are way more importunate then raids pve.

Depends on your own usage pattern, don’t you think? To me, spvp and roaming balance importance is zero. If you want to claim they are objectively more important, you’d need to prove they are being played by more players. Which you can’t do, as this type of information isn’t publicly available. Hence the claim would be essentially empty.

Being objective is realizing the majority of players do not raid and that its niche and therefore lower priority – that’s not to say it should be ignored so raider needn’t get all defensive. Prioritization of work to maximize improvement while minimizing negative impact is fairly obvious to most. As for design, Guild wars (1 & 2) end game has always been pvp and collecting. Anet are smart enough not to try and compete for a market (raiding mmorpg) that is cooked and is very very expensive to develop content for. Balance is obviously critical for pvp because its real people playing against each other.

Don’t fool yourself. This game has never been “PvP aimed”. Just compare the amount of content available in PvP and PvE. And compare the amount of PvP content available in GW2 vs a real PvP game.

And you keep missing the point. I never claimed the majority raid. The majority PvE. Therefore, PvE being a focus is a necessity. Raids only come as a sort of balance proving grounds because they exist. It doesn’t matter if they’re played by 70%, 7% or 0.7% of the PvE population. They are just the most efficient indication what’s wrong in the game mode. Once your focus is PvE and you have raids being the high-end content in the game mode, it makes no sense to use something else for the purpose of balance.

The thing is PvP is a part of the game whether you like it or not. Players are not mobs, so balance can’t be done around pve and expect it to work for Pvp as well. You simply cannot balance 1/3 of the game and ignore the other 2/3rds of it. And again, mobs can be easily adjusted to fit any balance changes, its just AI. It would be much easier for them actually to focus pvp balance and adjust pve mobs accordingly afterwards.

Its done that way in several other games, and it works. Anet doesn’t seem competent enough to do that though, so separating balance for all 3 modes is the only sensible thing for them to do at this point. There needs to be separate balance because this focus around raids is completely destroying pvp and wvw.

If they were going to focus on pve, then they shouldn’t have ever had a pvp or wvw at all. It would have saved me alot of money if they did that actually. The sole reason I and pretty much all my friends bought this game is because of wvw. Also we’d never heard of guild wars at all before then and the name of the game made us think the game had a pvp focus. The name guild wars sort of implies there would be guild wars.

Nikkinella.8254:

If they were going to focus on pve, then they shouldn’t have ever had a pvp or wvw at all.

Why not? The combat system works. These modes are byproducts of the game, but they both work. Especially WvW works quite well and is quite fun to play.

How can people say this game is balanced around pvp while there isn’t even a pvp balance team of dev lol.
The balance of pvp in this game is just around change/removal/add sigils, Runes and amulets.
In every patch we had since raid release the balancing of skills and trait is 90% focus in PvE and 10% on pvp with really soft impact on it.

lucadiro.4519:

In every patch we had since raid release the balancing of skills and trait is 90% focus in PvE and 10% on pvp with really soft impact on it.

It has always been like this, it’s not something changed with the introduction of raids.

Feanor.2358:

lucadiro.4519:

In every patch we had since raid release the balancing of skills and trait is 90% focus in PvE and 10% on pvp with really soft impact on it.

It has always been like this, it’s not something changed with the introduction of raids.

You are wrong. Before HoT mostly elementalist Nerf/buff (since we are in ele subforum) were pvp focused.
Icebow4 and FGS4 are exceptions obviously

lucadiro.4519:

How can people say this game is balanced around pvp while there isn’t even a pvp balance team of dev lol.
The balance of pvp in this game is just around change/removal/add sigils, Runes and amulets.
In every patch we had since raid release the balancing of skills and trait is 90% focus in PvE and 10% on pvp with really soft impact on it.

who is saying the game should be balanced around pvp? PVE/PVP forum warriors are getting confused, the only issue is the failure of the devs to focus on balancing where it has the greatest impact. As far as i’m aware I can play any build I like in PVE and can mix and match a near endless set of gear/skills/buffs and everything is perfectly playable at the moment. PVP at the moment however has big issues, and therefore that’s where the focus should be – e.g not meteor. Focus on PVE when it is an issue, same argument.

Feanor.2358:

Don’t fool yourself. This game has never been “PvP aimed”. Just compare the amount of content available in PvP and PvE. And compare the amount of PvP content available in GW2 vs a real PvP game.

And you keep missing the point. I never claimed the majority raid. The majority PvE. Therefore, PvE being a focus is a necessity. Raids only come as a sort of balance proving grounds because they exist. It doesn’t matter if they’re played by 70%, 7% or 0.7% of the PvE population. They are just the most efficient indication what’s wrong in the game mode. Once your focus is PvE and you have raids being the high-end content in the game mode, it makes no sense to use something else for the purpose of balance.

Its been pvp aimed from the starts because of the bid for esports why have you forgotten the last 5 years of gw2. Its only HoT and mid to late HoT where pve raids become the drivers for balancing.

Just from the level of unblockable boon strip and corruption in the game alone is very showing that this game is a pvp aimed game not a pve aimed game. (These effects are worthless vs mobs only vs players.)

Back on the point Ele in wvw the aim for a bit. Ele lacking good anty dmg mitigation. Even at 25 stacks of Vulnerability its not enofe ele needs unblockables or means of dealing with boons or means of dealing with healing. This is what is holding ele back for being a real power dmg class. Its ok as a support maybe even too strong as one. There just a real lack of chose when it comes to what your able to do on ele atm.

I think ele needs to have a unblockable time for its skills so you can land a big bomb but with a long cd. Ele needs a way to make ppl have boon duration -% not a full on strip. I would also like to see ele have a way to make healing less effective or more if a person is at low hp effects maybe add a stronger condi to them such as a strong burn when some one is at a low hp to finish them off.

What I’m saying is basically “you won’t see PvP being the driving force behind balance changes because this won’t accomplish anything”. It won’t make PvP great, it will just spoil PvE. Which is where the majority of the players are. Remember, this isn’t about making “the perfect game”. It’s business.[/quote]

PVP is the driving for behind balance change from 2012 till 2016. You are from Europe and that is where your builds are 2 years behind and same with you wvw game play. Ele is soft kitten and wvw is mostly 1v1 1v2 1v havoc 1v zerg you will face this issue all the time in NA. Anyone can wvw is a zerg, I don’t even wear close sometimes or just use air, fir arcane with a staff. no tough. But that is not wvw…. or your just a kitten lol. I need people to wear big boy and girl pants, ele is very underwhelming you are just using states available to all that if others would use will do way better job than you. Also boon corruption and strip will reck you so hard and fast it’s not even funny.

OH gawd I assume most of NA died 2 years ago and just stop commenting in the forums.

I hope on a bunker d/p and staff thief and emulated retro d/d ele. Not once I cloaked and just killed revs, thieves , reapers like kitten within 1 min. Chronos to kill since they run around like headless chicken.

I mean serious guys the damage of core ele in wvw universe is sad let alone spvp. EU player shhhhh! You don’t play in NA you don’t know your general players are so bad it’s like they are playing with 2012 builds.

I hope we get some improvements anet, very disappoint with this, not even qualified to be jack of all trades title now more like being jacked title.
And if you made tempest to op for bunkering in spvp in team play, nerf tempest and not core ele. Core ele hits like a sad candle if people have tough on them. Unlike other class that can spam condi to bypass that mechanic ele can’t.

Well with fire and people really need to be kitten to get caught in that since epic fire skil nerfs with fire dagger 3 4 5 back in June 2016. Hey you can even revert changes for staff for spvp only and leave it luke warm in pve.

lucadiro.4519:

Feanor.2358:

lucadiro.4519:

In every patch we had since raid release the balancing of skills and trait is 90% focus in PvE and 10% on pvp with really soft impact on it.

It has always been like this, it’s not something changed with the introduction of raids.

You are wrong. Before HoT mostly elementalist Nerf/buff (since we are in ele subforum) were pvp focused.
Icebow4 and FGS4 are exceptions obviously

I disagree but think about what you wrote.

They nerfed conjure weapons to the ground and then when d/d was super OP in PvP Anet did what?

Nothing heck for like 2 months there was nothing but 4-5 man d/d ELE teams in ESL.

I just want to throw that out there, if they were balancing ele threw PvP im pretty sure they would of reduced d/d ele sustain and bumped S/F ele burst damage.

lucadiro.4519:

How can people say this game is balanced around pvp while there isn’t even a pvp balance team of dev lol.
The balance of pvp in this game is just around change/removal/add sigils, Runes and amulets.
In every patch we had since raid release the balancing of skills and trait is 90% focus in PvE and 10% on pvp with really soft impact on it.

Yeah im wondering why people keep saying that the game has PvP aspects around balance.

The new PvP dev wrote a comment basically saying that he wasnt in charge of anything.

Im pretty sure Grouch left and the new guy came in like awesome great job. Then saw all the complaints and tried to change it and was told no and then vented to the community.

The small PvP changes they make dont even really make alot of sense. Instead of adjusting the damage on the F1 primal bursts they said SCREW THAT, DEATH TO ALL WARRIORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kdaddy.5431:

lucadiro.4519:

How can people say this game is balanced around pvp while there isn’t even a pvp balance team of dev lol.
The balance of pvp in this game is just around change/removal/add sigils, Runes and amulets.
In every patch we had since raid release the balancing of skills and trait is 90% focus in PvE and 10% on pvp with really soft impact on it.

Yeah im wondering why people keep saying that the game has PvP aspects around balance.

The new PvP dev wrote a comment basically saying that he wasnt in charge of anything.

Im pretty sure Grouch left and the new guy came in like awesome great job. Then saw all the complaints and tried to change it and was told no and then vented to the community.

The small PvP changes they make dont even really make alot of sense. Instead of adjusting the damage on the F1 primal bursts they said SCREW THAT, DEATH TO ALL WARRIORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Because your using pvp as being spvp only and not thinking about pvp over all as a type of game play that has wvw.

Most ppl are saying pvp they are saying spvp and wvw or over all pvp effects of skills such as unblockable utility that effect healing etc.. things that do not have any real use in pve. This is getting more back to the old ideal of GW2 and what balancing has been up until they added in raids.

Most skill depth in GW2 dose nothing for pve its all about how they effect players and there skills. Pve is gw2 light pvp is the real gw2 (more so wvw then spvp but spvp still has a lot more of gw2 in it then pve.)

“. And finally, we’re looking to normalize damage for the elementalist so that it is not effectively the best-in-slot for damage, support, and survivability in all scenarios. " , /wrists lmao, really anet? really?

ProDecius.2609:

“. And finally, we’re looking to normalize damage for the elementalist so that it is not effectively the best-in-slot for damage, support, and survivability in all scenarios. " , /wrists lmao, really anet? really?

…meanwhile in pvp ele still can’t make dps build without committing suicide.

Mr Godlike.6098:

ProDecius.2609:

“. And finally, we’re looking to normalize damage for the elementalist so that it is not effectively the best-in-slot for damage, support, and survivability in all scenarios. " , /wrists lmao, really anet? really?

…meanwhile in pvp ele still can’t make dps build without committing suicide.

Yeah just kittening read the patchnotes yesterday. I was contemplating stopping playing with dps ele builds before yesterday but then I tought no way A-net. Try harder I’m not gonna become a friggin meta-sheep( not that there is anything wrong with that but to each thier own ) . I will keep playing what i like. If have to become a kamikaze bomber then so be it.

Yeah, I was scratching my head on that comment about ele being best at “damage, support, and survivability.”

I mean, ele can be pretty survivable and provides good support in PvP, but “best”? No. Even if they are capable of being the most survivable, the meta build sacrifices survival to provide that support. And they can’t deal damage effectively at all without sacrificing all of their survival and support. You can’t have it all at once, yet that seems to be what they’re suggesting.

In PvE I have no idea what they’re talking about. Ele is and has been a top damage dealer for some time now, as far as I know? Survival and support aren’t even on the menu and certainly not paired with damage!

I’m not commenting on whether the changes were appropriate. I think that depends upon how ele matches up to other classes and, of course, what happens with the release of the new elite specs. There are too many questions left to be answered to say, so I’m reserving judgment.

But their reasoning (i.e. “ele was best at everything”) seems way off.

AliamRationem.5172:

Yeah, I was scratching my head on that comment about ele being best at “damage, support, and survivability.”

I mean, ele can be pretty survivable and provides good support in PvP, but “best”? No. Even if they are capable of being the most survivable, the meta build sacrifices survival to provide that support. And they can’t deal damage effectively at all without sacrificing all of their survival and support. You can’t have it all at once, yet that seems to be what they’re suggesting.

In PvE I have no idea what they’re talking about. Ele is and has been a top damage dealer for some time now, as far as I know? Survival and support aren’t even on the menu and certainly not paired with damage!

I’m not commenting on whether the changes were appropriate. I think that depends upon how ele matches up to other classes and, of course, what happens with the release of the new elite specs. There are too many questions left to be answered to say, so I’m reserving judgment.

But their reasoning (i.e. “ele was best at everything”) seems way off.

I keep seeing people confused at that comment by Anet. I seem to have read it a bit differently than many. I read the comment as elementalist can be the best at any one of these 3 roles if built right, not top in all 3 at once. Essentially, if built right then the ele can be the best DPS or can be the best support or can be the best survival.

Some may still disagree with whether the statement is accurate when reading it that way but it makes a lot more sense. I sincerely doubt their implication was that ele can be the best at all 3 roles at the same time.

Fair enough. I still don’t see it. For one “best support” is heavily dependent on the game mode. In PvP? Perhaps. In PvE? Not by a long shot. In WvW? Nope. Pretty much the same applies to survivability.

Feanor.2358:

Fair enough. I still don’t see it. For one “best support” is heavily dependent on the game mode. In PvP? Perhaps. In PvE? Not by a long shot. In WvW? Nope. Pretty much the same applies to survivability.

That the thing your still mixing up tempest for ele. Tempest should be the best support the ele class can pull off because it should be giving up a lot of its dmg (all though because tempest had so much dmg to keep it in line core ele effects got nerf my main complaint about tempest and over all ele community not being willing to give up dps on tempest.)

Tempest should be nearly a pure support tank and it is and is very good at it. Its missing some good support effects true but for some reason it makes up for it by still doing high dps (sadly higher then the core ele).

Ele should be a balance that right the ele should not have a dmg line yet because its not come out. Core classes should be the balanced of all that the class can pull off. Ele elite spec. Weaver should be the dmg line for ele.

What i am hopping for is once they add in weaver they nerf tempest dmg but add in much more support. At the same time i hope they add in a bit more dmg to core ele and maybe more support as well. barrier on core ele may be the support part needed that will carry over to tempest and i am guessing the arcain changes are the dmg part.

So its less on the lines of Anet hate core ele its ele players who hate core ele. They want every thing to be on tempest or weaver. They want power creep.

Wow, away for 3 years, come back, much has changed, except Ele still being beat on? 3 years of no attunement dancing, 3 years of no dreading patch notes, 3 years of missing the class I’ve loved the most. I hope it’s gonna be worth playing again.

EDIT…

We got off-hand war-horn? We’re getting main-hand sword? We have access to shouts? Have they fixed D/D yet? Why are Zelhyn’s posts still pinned at the top?

Jski.6180:

That the thing your still mixing up tempest for ele. Tempest should be the best support the ele class can pull off because it should be giving up a lot of its dmg (all though because tempest had so much dmg to keep it in line core ele effects got nerf my main complaint about tempest and over all ele community not being willing to give up dps on tempest.)

First off, whether or not an elite spec “should” be just one thing is debatable. I call this bad design.

Next, it doesn’t change the fact Tempest is a garbage support in PvE. Yeah, you can carry pugs with it. But it has no place in the meta. If you want to be efficient, it is simply not an option. Never was, never will be, unless a major overhaul of the unique class buffs happen.

In WvW it is acceptable, but still not that great. Everything a Tempest can do in WvW other classes can, too. Often better.

P.S. Just to add on the “purity of purpose” topic. PoF, and its upcoming elite specs were announced using the following phrases:

• “another way to customize your playstyle”
• “having new options”
• “it’s another way to play”

By making Weaver the only dps elite line, they aren’t giving new options. They are giving an only option. It’s not another way to play when the old one doesn’t exist any more. That’s the problem with said purity. It is too restrictive. You don’t get to customize your playstyle, you get to choose one or the other playstyle. On top of it, one of them is simply a poor choice in PvE, by far the largest of the three game modes. So no, I can’t agree it “should” be like that. It very clearly shouldn’t.

Jski.6180:

Feanor.2358:

Waisenpai.6028:

Everyone that plays core ele dislikes tempest.

Great generalization you have here. And, like all generalizations, it’s wrong. I played and loved ele back on vanilla, then I tried and loved tempest, too.

Right i play tempest and i HATE it over all its a elite spec for tankly support then anet realize it would not be used unless they tack on a dmg effect. So they make air and fire overlord do high enofe dmg to be viable in raids at the same time nerfing the crap out of core ele. There by making tempest the core class and the ele a non class.

Tempest as a class is a over cooked ideal with a lot of sauce to cover up for the fact.

i would have loved if the overloads where just Aoe ranged skills. that would have made it a viable choice for builds that wasn’t melee focused (although i dislike the way overload was done, seems counter intuitive to add cd time on attunement switch as thats eles entire gameplay focus.)

nice to see so many people poking at the Staff ele’s extreme weakness compared to other setups.
would love if they could make it more viable, it needs far more ability to control the battlefield as it has no real movability, so CC is it’s only way to try and keep distance (which doesn’t work when every class can be CC immune for ages now, and the CC of the staff is very low time amount).

whan an entitled bunch, necro is useless in 95% of content but WvW and you have the courage to whine because you cannot press 1 button to obliterate siege weapons

Wishmaster.7693:

whan an entitled bunch, necro is useless in 95% of content but WvW and you have the courage to whine because you cannot press 1 button to obliterate siege weapons

Elementalist was always Anet’s favorite. And the are so entitled they still whine for more.

Warrost.4895:

Wishmaster.7693:

whan an entitled bunch, necro is useless in 95% of content but WvW and you have the courage to whine because you cannot press 1 button to obliterate siege weapons

Elementalist was always Anet’s favorite. And the are so entitled they still whine for more.

Whenever people posts an low-effort, ignorant reply like this, I like to repost this video.

Since when tempest ele (support) isnt viable or even not meta in spvp?
Same goes to wvw if we are talking about group roaming.

Shadowflare.2759:

Warrost.4895:

Wishmaster.7693:

whan an entitled bunch, necro is useless in 95% of content but WvW and you have the courage to whine because you cannot press 1 button to obliterate siege weapons

Elementalist was always Anet’s favorite. And the are so entitled they still whine for more.

Whenever people posts an low-effort, ignorant reply like this, I like to repost this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ

Love that vid xD

it makes it even more true when the FAR strongest ele builds are all melee focsed builds xD