Guild Wars 2

Karl McLain.5604:

To attempt to clear up some confusion: all outgoing heals from the elementalist will be increased by 25% for all receiving allies. Your outgoing regeneration is increased, your healing skills, your evasive arcana, your water blast finishers, etc. The trait will be offering an option to directly support your allies in this fashion.
This is not a pulse or aura like Battle Presence that increases everyone’s healing power, this trait directly affects the elementalist’s healing effectiveness based on their current healing ability.
I hope this helps clarify a bit.

Sorry to tell you this, but this trait is AWFUL. How did it ever get into the game? I mean really, this is NOT grandmaster worthy.

My question is: When you finally see that no one is using this poor excuse for a Grandmaster will you be changing it? Or will you just say its fine and that everyone else is terrible for not using it?

It should increase the Ele healing as well. Currently i would be hesitant to use it even if it was in Master slot. I really hope the others you have planned for ele arent as lackluster as this one.

Elestian.6134:

People are being melodramatic here.

Let’s not forget that it’s difficult, if not impossible, to truly measure the value of any single change/addition without looking at the larger picture. Until we have more information (especially regarding changes to other professions, not just our own), speculating on the future state of eles is pointless.

I could see this being particularly useful in WvW (or GvG, if you’re into that), but reserve judgment until we know more.

If I’m not mistaken devs also said they will buff the blast on waterfields to make it more important to have healing power, as it is right now if you have 2k or 0 doesn’t change much ( 400hp).

Imo Anet is going in the right direction for WvW/PvP, we need more buffs to support roles.

For PvE I don’t know, it doesn’t look good as a trait but I don’t really care about it, the only thing I whish is that anet wil be focused on WvW/PvP and not PvE with everything balance related.

Months ago Anet’s staff said “we will do something to put the elementalist’s builds outside of water and arcana traits” : so they upped (Oo) some of the traits in both lines putting them in the superior tiers, almost ruining functionnal builds (now they are clunky).

And now, to futher put us outside of water, here’s the new :

WATER grand master trait… \o/

There’s something i don’t understand in the choices made by the staff.

It must be me.

sminkiottone.6972:

… the only thing I whish is that anet wil be focused on WvW/PvP and not PvE with everything balance related.

Yeah, this seems to be a point of some contention among a few players, but I tend to agree. GW2 PvE just isn’t demanding (possibly save high-end FotM), and with the changes to dungeon rewards, speed runs purely for profit are a thing of the past. The only problem I see is certain professions being considered outright undesirable (poor rangers), but other than that, like you, I’d much prefer balance be geared toward the more competitive game modes where it actually matters.

Aquatic Benevolence is a good example of this. I don’t foresee myself ever bothering with the trait in PvE, unless future content is more difficult. In PvP, I’d consider it equally inferior for the weapon set and build I prefer (though these are obviously subject to change with whatever the Feature Pack brings). I still say WvW is where its greater potential may lie.

Umungus.8326:

• snip *

Don’t forget that each trait line is getting a new grandmaster trait.

Umungus.8326:

Months ago Anet’s staff said “we will do something to put the elementalist’s builds outside of water and arcana traits” : so they upped (Oo) some of the traits in both lines putting them in the superior tiers, almost ruining functionnal builds (now they are clunky).

And now, to futher put us outside of water, here’s the new :

WATER grand master trait… \o/

There’s something i don’t understand in the choices made by the staff.

It must be me.

What is it with people and not understanding that every trait line is getting new traits and they only previewed one GM per profession?

“The Sigil of Sanctuary, which had extremely limited usability, has been renamed and re-worked, becoming the Sigil of Benevolence. This new sigil will grant bonus healing to other allies similar to how the elementalist’s new trait, Aquatic Benevolence, will function.”

So, not only do we get a terrible trait. EVERY other class will have the same access to it via a sigil…

Amazing work anet, truly clueless.

So if I get it right, we have lowest health and armor and the solution to this is that we can now heal others who do have good armor and health so they can have even more survivability than they already have compared to the ele.

Though I do like several of the changes they’re making and healing others is something I really like to do with my Cleric D/D 0/20/0/30/20 all the way.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

“The Sigil of Sanctuary, which had extremely limited usability, has been renamed and re-worked, becoming the Sigil of Benevolence. This new sigil will grant bonus healing to other allies similar to how the elementalist’s new trait, Aquatic Benevolence, will function.”

So, not only do we get a terrible trait. EVERY other class will have the same access to it via a sigil…

Amazing work anet, truly clueless.

Why are you surprised?
They said both that “this trait contains a new mechanic” and that it “has the highest of all outgoing healing effects currently in the game”. It seems to be implying (and now confirmed) that this mechanic is not going to be limited to a single trait.

Elestian.6134:

People are being melodramatic here.

Let’s not forget that it’s difficult, if not impossible, to truly measure the value of any single change/addition without looking at the larger picture. Until we have more information (especially regarding changes to other professions, not just our own), speculating on the future state of eles is pointless.

I could see this being particularly useful in WvW (or GvG, if you’re into that), but reserve judgment until we know more.

True but I find it fun to speculate on future outcomes when something new is announced. I also see this being particularly useful one wvw Zerg and gvg. Specially for those that already enjoy the support of providing water fields and blasting them for healing.

Lostwingman.5034:

What is it with people and not understanding that every trait line is getting new traits and they only previewed one GM per profession?

I don’t understand why the PR team think this GM trait would be the most appealling to elementalist’s players as a feature.

Imo, It goes against the vast majority of elementalist’s players claim and deserve the purpose for wich it’s showed to us.

Lostwingman.5034:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

“The Sigil of Sanctuary, which had extremely limited usability, has been renamed and re-worked, becoming the Sigil of Benevolence. This new sigil will grant bonus healing to other allies similar to how the elementalist’s new trait, Aquatic Benevolence, will function.”

So, not only do we get a terrible trait. EVERY other class will have the same access to it via a sigil…

Amazing work anet, truly clueless.

Why are you surprised?
They said both that “this trait contains a new mechanic” and that it “has the highest of all outgoing healing effects currently in the game”. It seems to be implying (and now confirmed) that this mechanic is not going to be limited to a single trait.

Still dose not make it any less of a new mechanic just something else has some effect like it and more then likely it will be a great deal weaker then the ele version. So yes what they said is true and what your trying to imply has nothing to do with what they said.

Jski.6180:

Lostwingman.5034:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

“The Sigil of Sanctuary, which had extremely limited usability, has been renamed and re-worked, becoming the Sigil of Benevolence. This new sigil will grant bonus healing to other allies similar to how the elementalist’s new trait, Aquatic Benevolence, will function.”

So, not only do we get a terrible trait. EVERY other class will have the same access to it via a sigil…

Amazing work anet, truly clueless.

Why are you surprised?
They said both that “this trait contains a new mechanic” and that it “has the highest of all outgoing healing effects currently in the game”. It seems to be implying (and now confirmed) that this mechanic is not going to be limited to a single trait.

Still dose not make it any less of a new mechanic just something else has some effect like it and more then likely it will be a great deal weaker then the ele version. So yes what they said is true and what your trying to imply has nothing to do with what they said.

English?
What exactly is wrong in what I said? What is it exactly that you are saying?
>This is a new mechanic
>This ele trait will be the most powerful version of it upon release.
That’s what they said, that’s what I posted here. What are you saying?

Umungus.8326:

Lostwingman.5034:

What is it with people and not understanding that every trait line is getting new traits and they only previewed one GM per profession?

I don’t understand why the PR team think this GM trait would be the most appealling to elementalist’s players as a feature.

Imo, It goes against the vast majority of elementalist’s players claim and deserve the purpose for wich it’s showed to us.

Really?
You cannot fathom why they would preview the trait that is the strongest version of a new mechanic?
This is all bizarre and nonsensical to you?
They did it to preview not just one new trait but also a new mechanic at the same time.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

“The Sigil of Sanctuary, which had extremely limited usability, has been renamed and re-worked, becoming the Sigil of Benevolence. This new sigil will grant bonus healing to other allies similar to how the elementalist’s new trait, Aquatic Benevolence, will function.”

So, not only do we get a terrible trait. EVERY other class will have the same access to it via a sigil…

Amazing work anet, truly clueless.

this means a healing ele using that trait plus sigil will be the best healer in the game. If that isn’t your thing then ok but still makes ele the best healer beating out the beloved guardian. Those 2 probably stack as most things in this game do. The stack is probably also additive as most defensive buffs do in this game whereas offensive is multiplicative.

cursE.1794:

Toss in water fields, condition clears, regeneration, self-blasts, protection, aura-sharing and the Ele is definitely on top imho.

That doesn’t even work in theory. Tell me how to toss in water fields and share auras at the same time. It’s useless to mention a list of features that will never be accessable in the same build.

Besides, if staff ele was the best support in the game, why is the support class in 95% of all groups a guardian? Because no one knows about it? I dont think so. And if you talk about open world, regeneration, water fields and self blasts are something that a full zerker staff ele already has. Some protection, 2 seconds of stability and 1 more condition clear is not worth to go full healing at all, which would be the only reason to make this trait we’re talking about useful.

You have a lot of conflicting info in your response. I’ll illuminate some of it, but I doubt it’s worth discussing with you beyond this…

1. Water fields are not trait dependent — you have them with Staff, period. So you can have water fields and aura share. Simple sequence: Earth #3, Earth #2, Water #3 (aura share, prot, water field, blast, heal). Not sure why this is confusing.

2. Protection comes from multiple sources. Elemental Attunement doesn’t require any investment in Water to get it. If you are thinking only Elemental Shielding + Aura Share then yeah you need Water traits.

3. Stability doesn’t come from the healing line at all (purely Earth)

I totally agree this new trait blows with the current game mechanics (I listed multiple reasons why I feel this way in a previous post). However don’t down play Elementalist as a bad support role. I also dispute your 95% figure… nobody knows the figure. It’s also very easy to play a Guardian compared to an Elementalist — maybe that’s why you see more.

juno.1840:

You have a lot of conflicting info in your response. I’ll illuminate some of it, but I doubt it’s worth discussing with you beyond this…

1. Water fields are not trait dependent — you have them with Staff, period. So you can have water fields and aura share. Simple sequence: Earth #3, Earth #2, Water #3 (aura share, prot, water field, blast, heal). Not sure why this is confusing.

2. Protection comes from multiple sources. Elemental Attunement doesn’t require any investment in Water to get it. If you are thinking only Elemental Shielding + Aura Share then yeah you need Water traits.

3. Stability doesn’t come from the healing line at all (purely Earth)

I totally agree this new trait blows with the current game mechanics (I listed multiple reasons why I feel this way in a previous post). However don’t down play Elementalist as a bad support role. I also dispute your 95% figure… nobody knows the figure. It’s also very easy to play a Guardian compared to an Elementalist — maybe that’s why you see more.

I totally forgot that earth #3 on staff is an aura skill, sorry about that. I was thinking about frost- and shock aura on d/d. Of course, that would also imply a second source of protection with the earth V trait.

The reason I threw protection/stability and healing all into one pot (which might cause confusion) is because I understand roles in a teamfight to be very specialized. Thus, if I was to pick a build, I would go either full support or full damage. Going full support implies to me to pick up traits that grant stability/protection AND healing as well as condition cleanse.

I also don’t think eles are bad in support, I just think they are worse than guardians. We have some passive traits to gain protection and stability, but they are locked behind attunements. They are not like ulitity skills that are accessable on demand. IMO the utility skills of guardians will always be better than the passive boons from elementalists, at least in dungeons.

Lostwingman.5034:

Really?

Yes, really. Astonishing for u ?

Lostwingman.5034:

You cannot fathom why they would preview the trait that is the strongest version of a new mechanic?

yes, i cannot. But i play elementalist. I suppose that explain all.

Lostwingman.5034:

This is all bizarre and nonsensical to you?

Have u read my post explaining my feeling or are u just writing to read ur post.

Lostwingman.5034:

They did it to preview not just one new trait but also a new mechanic at the same time.

Either u don’t read or understand or u r just making fun of others.

Nothing interesting here to read from u.

..is it only me that finds it giving everyone on your team 2+healing signets just by swaping to water a pretty strong thing? Since it affects regen it ll be insane. Do the math :P
If you pair it with new monk runes and sigil itd 40%+ (i cant remember how much monk gives ) more outgoing healing
Not only that but you can also get the full healing support of a current clerics ele for your team while running full berzerker gear so you dont destroy your dps in the process.How is that trait anything but amazing?? :O

Originally Posted by Jon Peters, Arenanet

It’s been a while since I wrote the GW2 healing and death article and frankly that article was a lot harder to write when the only profession examples I could use were the warrior and the elementalist.
I said something to Isaiah Cartwright the other day that has stuck in my mind since then. I think it explains how no trinity is possible more than anything else, so I’ll relay it here:

“Our professions aren’t dedicated healers, DPS, or tanks because frankly, we built a combat system that just doesn’t allow it.”

Many interviewers wonder if we are worried about making such a radical change, but to me the whole thing is just common sense for what we are trying to accomplish. I’d be a lot more worried about building GW2 combat with trinity professions than without them. I don’t want to speak for other games or other combat systems, but this system is just better for our game.

Everyone has a dedicated slot on their skill bar where they must place a healing skill. These vary greatly and are an intimate part of the Guild Wars 2 build-making process, but ultimately they are your most efficient and reliable way to sustain yourself in battle. Why did we do this? Because we think it is a more interesting way to create sustained encounters for solo players AND groups while keeping players focused on themselves and their surroundings.

That is why we want to eliminate things that we felt were burdens on the game such as:

•Group LF Healer/Tank…
•Party wipes when you lose the wrong person.
•Watching the interface instead of the world.
•Playing with people because you have to, not because you want to.
•Being stuck in the same combat patterns over and over again.

Anyway, I hope this gives everyone a little bit of insight into the combat of Guild Wars 2, the removal of the Holy Trinity, and profession roles.

Sincerely a non HEALER elementalist…..
We lack a survival mechanics…being a healer only for Others is not a good idea and is going against anything different GW2 design had compared to old school mmorpgs

LordByron.8369:

Originally Posted by Jon Peters, Arenanet

It’s been a while since I wrote the GW2 healing and death article and frankly that article was a lot harder to write when the only profession examples I could use were the warrior and the elementalist.
I said something to Isaiah Cartwright the other day that has stuck in my mind since then. I think it explains how no trinity is possible more than anything else, so I’ll relay it here:

“Our professions aren’t dedicated healers, DPS, or tanks because frankly, we built a combat system that just doesn’t allow it.”

Many interviewers wonder if we are worried about making such a radical change, but to me the whole thing is just common sense for what we are trying to accomplish. I’d be a lot more worried about building GW2 combat with trinity professions than without them. I don’t want to speak for other games or other combat systems, but this system is just better for our game.

Everyone has a dedicated slot on their skill bar where they must place a healing skill. These vary greatly and are an intimate part of the Guild Wars 2 build-making process, but ultimately they are your most efficient and reliable way to sustain yourself in battle. Why did we do this? Because we think it is a more interesting way to create sustained encounters for solo players AND groups while keeping players focused on themselves and their surroundings.

That is why we want to eliminate things that we felt were burdens on the game such as:

•Group LF Healer/Tank…
•Party wipes when you lose the wrong person.
•Watching the interface instead of the world.
•Playing with people because you have to, not because you want to.
•Being stuck in the same combat patterns over and over again.

Anyway, I hope this gives everyone a little bit of insight into the combat of Guild Wars 2, the removal of the Holy Trinity, and profession roles.

Sincerely a non HEALER elementalist…..
We lack a survival mechanics…being a healer only for Others is not a good idea and is going against anything different GW2 design had compared to old school mmorpgs

Great find. Exact opposite of what they were originally promoting.

Even if it affects regen boon, it doesn’t remove the fact that it doesn’t affect the Elementalist at all. You’ll still be as squishy as paper, nothing changed. Elementalists will still be the 1st priority target in team fights regardless if you’re on a healing spec or not.

Of course ele will be n1 priority in teamfights..especially if its giving 800 passive regen to people around him and heals that can pop them to full aswell ,give prot,spread weakness,give might,cc and do aoe damage
Lol..it doesnt always matter how much durable you are by yourself.All that matters is that what you bring is good enough to justify your team saving and protecting your kitten
You people need to play other games seriously.This gw2 mentality that everyone needs to be everything and do anything and self sustain ..its bad and im glad that they are taking steps to make support more meaningful

Avead.5760:

Of course ele will be n1 priority in teamfights..especially if its giving 800 passive regen to people around him and heals that can pop them to full aswell ,give prot,spread weakness,give might,cc and do aoe damage
Lol..it doesnt always matter how much durable you are by yourself.All that matters is that what you bring is good enough to justify your team saving and protecting your kitten
You people need to play other games seriously.This gw2 mentality that everyone needs to be everything and do anything and self sustain ..its bad and im glad that they are taking steps to make support more meaningful

No, I am not asking for an elementalist to be able to do everything so don’t put words in my mouth. What I said is true, this GM trait will not increase the Elementalist’s survivability at all, you might even lose more because you’re sacrificing cleansing water.

Any decent group will target an elementlist first regardless if he’s on a healing spec or not. Sure, you can heal others a lot more but a dead healer heals nothing. Honestly, this would’ve worked if Elementalist had more innate survivability without having to rely on others completely to protect him.

But even if it doesnt increase your own healing its still 1 trait.You have other 6 and all of other buffs are applied to you. You are still defensively build and have defensive cds. You still have teammates..Heck if theres another ele with the trait now you enjoy massive regen and heals too.You make it sound like you ll drop immediately under focus on clerics gear and that your team wont do anything to peel for you and kill their targets.
The way i see it is that teh enemy team will have to face a tough decision.Waste time killing that “almost” bunker ele that can heal a ton himself too, or ignore him and go direclty for the damage dealers but have to put up with massive regen and healing potential. Cause after all you d still be tougher to kill than the necro or the mesmer that is gonna dps them to death if left unnoticed.

Not to mention that if you are afraid of focus fire so much.Theres still the path of stoneheart and then build for full condi removal traits,sigils etc.You ll lose a heal but you still give insane regen wiuth the boon and soothing mist.

Avead.5760:

But even if it doesnt increase your own healing its still 1 trait.You have other 6 and all of other buffs are applied to you. You are still defensively build and have defensive cds. You still have teammates..Heck if theres another ele with the trait now you enjoy massive regen and heals too.You make it sound like you ll drop immediately under focus on clerics gear and that your team wont do anything to peel for you and kill their targets.
The way i see it is that teh enemy team will have to face a tough decision.Waste time killing that “almost” bunker ele that can heal a ton himself too, or ignore him and go direclty for the damage dealers but have to put up with massive regen and healing potential. Cause after all you d still be tougher to kill than the necro or the mesmer that is gonna dps them to death if left unnoticed.

Not to mention that if you are afraid of focus fire so much.Theres still the path of stoneheart and then build for full condi removal traits,sigils etc.You ll lose a heal but you still give insane regen wiuth the boon and soothing mist.

Let’s make this more productive. Let’s talk about how it works in competitive tPvP wherein you can only take in 5 players.

• What role will an Aquatic Benevolence Ele fall into and who will it replace? (Bunker, Roamer, Farpoint Assaulter)
• Is the sustain enough to counter spike damage and pressure from thieves which almost always exist in top teams?
• In this heavy condi meta, is it worth taking over Cleansing Water?
• Why take a support Elementalist over a Support Guardian who can use Runes of Monk and Sigil of Benevolence as well?
• Will any team be ballsy enough take 2 Aquatic Benevolence Elementalists?

P.S – I think taking both Stone Heart and Aquatic Benevolence is counter productive for support builds because you’ll lose Elemental Attunement.

Obviosuly you need to be in teamfights. And you cant be the one causing the outnumbered fight like dps roamers tend to do because its counter productive. Its basically the guardians role only more healing and less stability if you dont go the earth route.But its also more control and aoe damage and a bit less cleanse. Its too complicated to answer which is better honestly atm but ele seems more versatile and mobile .Both can stall and eles aoe scale better the bigger the fight especially with staff.
Back when ele was op and s/d clerics was in almost every team.sometimes even 2 of them ,nobody quenstioned what is the benefit of having ele in a teamfight.It didnt compete with guard either.It was just good. Yeah they were pushing far with broken rtl but that was only 1 thing you were doing. All the rest parts of that ele build will be far stronger with this healing upgrade or new cleasnign water and regen on trident.
I dont see why it cant work again..or at least why it wont be worth trying out

Heavy condi comp?? slot cleansing water and be a massive asset
Mixed or more direct comp? slot benevolence and sustain the team forever

It’d help a lot if you answered each question separately

And I’m asking these questions so you can convince me that it can work, I’m not close-minded so just say everything you want.

And one more question:
• A zerker staff Ele will out-DPS a support Ele’s group sustain healing. Zerker staff Ele also have control skills so the only comparison will be Damage vs Healing. Why take it instead of a zerker Ele?

A zerker staff ele will be shut down easily though and as you said you cant support when dead :P It cant rezz .Its passive total outgoing regen is less than 1/4 of the full clerics with the trait. And of course your job is to give your team the extra pump to sustain upon their own sustain options not sustain them through the entire enemy dps .
But sure if somehow you can assure that you ll be safe then dps staff is insane team contribution.Plus you can always go zerker staff and 30 water for the trait to also heal like a normal clerics :P

As for the rest of questions. There wont be a condi meta if cleansing water has teh icd removed like it werent back then (unless they bring perplexity to pvp )
When you see that the extra cleanse isnt worth it then this trait will be the obvious choice. Thieves will be nerfed with pw incrase and lyssa not giving stability.Thtas huge cause it means your cc can actually protect people from them while your regen heals them in conjuction to their own heals
I also think that if warriors with healing signet at 400 hps managed to become so strong then the extra increase at full hpower you get for your soothing mist and regen alone is gonna worth it in terms of team support. In the end in a real team if you can assure that theres a support guy like an ele in teamfight, it can also free up the options of the rest of the team.
What i mean is that if for example i know that i ll have my regen from a teammate thats dedicated to it and i know that this regen will be superior to my own by far i can ignore that trait that gave me this boon, for more damage or other effects. Thats the whole concept of making a team afterall right?? That building process of going full into a specialisation and relying to others for the rest is very important to other pvp games but not so in gw2.
Anyway full support ele is like the 3d build im gonna try when the patch hits.But im gonna try it !!

• I think a zerk staff ele will just need to cast Meteor Shower then it will be able to out-DPS a support Ele’s sustain healing.

• They are changing Sigil of Perplexity and will make it available in PvP on the 15th.

• A 0/0/20/30/20 build with Clerics trinket without runes is that you will have roughly around 13k HP and 2.6k Armor. Those stats are not tanky at all in PvP. Zerker builds will still be able to burst you with no problem.

My main concern is that even if you go full defensive build with Aquatic Benevolence, your stats will still be too low in PvP. All it takes is one decent thief to shadow step into you, skipping all your teammates in the process, to be able to down you. Even if you get ressed, it won’t take long to down you again.

But yes, I’ll try it too. Actually I’ll try all new GM traits except Elemental Contingency. I probably won’t even bother to use it until they make the ICD per Attunement like how EA works.